Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Hare on April 12, 2006, 02:17:22 pm
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A few CARPET vs HARDFLOOR health facts.
Hard floor promoters state that carpet ‘harbours’ allergens, or is a ‘haven’ for them.
This is the reason that carpet is healthier, we want allergens to be harboured or a better word ‘trapped’. On the floor trapped allergens are of no risk to us.
A hard floor allows allergens to be consistently airborne with even the slightest movement, and remain so for long periods, thereby entering the lungs consistently. It takes TEN TIMES more air flow to move fine dust particulate matter over a carpeted floor than across a hard surface floor.
In a 2005 German Asthma Association test, in scientifically tested homes the Fine Particulate Dust matter found in hard floor homes was double that of the same number of carpeted homes tested, and 12micro grams per cubic meter above the safe European recognised level. (50MGU)
Regarding carpet; wool is an inherently hygienic fibre and too coarse to effect an asthma sufferer plus dust mites do not like wool as the fibre is too dense. A woollen fibre carpet is therefore a major benefit to everyone, and especially asthma sufferers.
Cleaning and de-cluttering a room to increase the air movement will have a more positive effect on the indoor environment, than tampering with innocent floor covering.
Recently we have been fed a diet of sensationalist scare stories about carpets and dust mites and their alleged links to asthma.
This stream of anti-carpet propaganda has advised, indeed urged you to switch to wooden floors ostensibly 'in the interests of health'.
It must be pointed out, however, that this was an orchestrated anti-carpet campaign that was part funded by a Swedish laminate flooring producer.
Thus the advice to 'rip up the carpet' was far from independent and impartial as it purported to be.
The Carpet Foundation, the UK carpet manufacturing industry's lead body, in conjunction with the European Carpet Association, GuT, the German Association for environmentally friendly carpets, the Wool Research Organisation of New Zealand and the Carpet and Rug Institute of the USA, has conducted a detailed review of the key scientific papers on asthma and floor coverings.
It proves conclusively that there is no scientific validity for suggesting that carpet is a major threat to your health, even those people sensitive to the dust mite allergen.
“Health professionals” sometimes recommend that allergy and asthma patients remove carpet from their homes, those recommendations are generally based on faulty assumptions.
In fact, clean, dry, well-maintained carpet actually improves air quality.
Carpet acts as a trap for airborne particles grounded through natural gravity.
Professional Testing Labs studied the distribution of airborne dust associated with normal activities on hard and soft flooring surfaces. Their findings showed that walking on hard surfaces disturbed more particles.
These particles became airborne and entered the breathing zone. In contrast, carpeted surfaces trapped more particles so that walking disturbed fewer particles.
Result: less dust in the breathing zone over carpeted floors.
There is no scientific evidence to support the advice that the removal of carpet is clinically beneficial to asthma sufferers. No studies have ever been carried out which conclusively links a carpet free environment to clinical benefits for asthma sufferers.
In fact in Sweden where health hysteria led to a 77% reduction in carpet use, there was corresponding 300% increase in asthma in the same 15 year period to 1990.
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The average UK home has over two million dust mites feed on the protein from your dead skin scales.
They live in your mattress and pillows, upholstery and to a lesser extent carpet - the only reason you have never seen them is because they are so small the human eye can not see them. It is not the mite that is the problem but their harmful faeces, which are so small that when disturbed can stay airborne for over ten minutes.
Temperature extremes kill dust mites.
The problem with doing this is gaining accessibility to them.
Mites do not like the light and burrow deep into upholstered furniture, primarily mattresses and secondly sofas. Their prominence in carpet is not nearly so high.
Any application of water during cleaning, will at appropriate temperature, kill those mites near the surface. It will also add moisture which will assist the mites to feed and breed, as they need warmth and moisture to survive.
This is why HWE etc will not eradicate the problem, only scratch the surface.
The problem posed by mites is not that of the mite itself, but is the enzyme which breaks down protein in their food, and is found in their faeces.
This attacks the cell bindings in the lungs of humans and can leave them open to later infection.
However, specialist treatment of a mattress and sofa and lesser extent carpet, can ensure 6 to 12 months of freedom from this problem. The enzyme in it's broken down form (as a result of treatment) poses no problem.
Dust mites are mostly prominent in mattresses and secondly upholstered furniture, where they can burrow deep away from light. This poses the problem that conventional cleaning will not eradicate them other than the lesser numbers on the surface.
Wet cleaning can even add moisture which aids their feeding and breeding capabilities, hence the need for specialist treatment.
Carpet will not be home to many dust mites by comparison to upholstered furnishings especially in exposed areas. The place that they are more likely to be found in carpet, is under furniture, where no direct light gets and no cleaning takes place. This is especially true under sofas and chairs. This same lack of cleaning and build up of dust is just the same in these areas with hard floors as it is with carpet, if not more so. Apathy and lethargy being more apparent attitudes to cleaning with hard floor owners!
(Because they have been led to believe “hard floor is healthier"; so doesn't need effort on their part).
A vicious circle has been created.
The problem is not the mite itself, but within the faces, - even smaller particulate dust. This may fall out from beds and sofas etc onto the floor below. If this floor is carpeted at least most of it is trapped and held out of harms way.
If it lands on hard floor it is easily disturbed and laterally enters the room by virtue of any movement causing a draught, then it is airborne and free to enter the breathing zone, and will remain airborne for long periods. The smaller particulate dust is the longer it remains in orbit around our faces.
A simple experiment can demonstrate this function. Pollen, dust mite droppings and other air allergens are microscopic in size, so let's replace them with something more visible to the naked eye - flour or talcum powder.
Sprinkle a little of the selected powder onto a hard floor, then, from a height of about three feet, drop a book onto the floor so that it lands flat, about 6" from the powder. Repeat the experiment substituting a carpet for the hard floor. That little explosion of dust that accompanied the book landing on the hard surface shows what happens with a light foot-fall or any other draught to the microscopic allergens that land on the flooring even whilst it is being cleaned.
And what happened when the book landed on the carpet? Point demonstrated!
The very act of trying to mop a hard floor or vac it causes much air movement, most of the offending smaller particulate matter is made airborne and not removed by the mopping etc.
Vacuuming a carpet will remove large amounts of trapped matter from the pile. It may not remove many dust mites themselves due to their stiff body and leg hairs (which act like glue) and help the mites stay in fabrics resisting suction, but as it is the faeces that is the problem and needs removing, this is achieved.
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Mattress Covers.
People who suffer from severe allergies or asthma may find relief from their symptoms with the use of mattress covers.
It is imperative that those covers only be installed on mattresses that are new or have been cleaned and sanitised, otherwise the enclosed mattress may act like an incubator allowing mould, fungus and bacteria growth to increase. Even a new mattress can harbour a large degree of dust etc, deposited during the manufacturing process, and so should ideally be cleaned/treated.
When the cover is removed for washing, the contaminants are released into the air, and hence the lungs. Most manufacturers recommend that the covers be removed and washed weekly. This is a very cumbersome task and seldom likely to occur.
People suffer from disturbed sleep as the covers are noisy and do not breathe sufficiently making people sweat during the night.
It is recommended investing the price of the covers into getting the mattress professionally cleaned/treated. That way you can rest assured knowing that your mattress is clean and sanitised.
The microscopic size of the harmful dust mite faeces is such that it penetrates through most of these covers anyway.
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There is some info about Clinical evaluation of the effect of anti-allergic mattress covers (http://thorax.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/57/9/784)
Regards,
Arthur
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A&J.........dosnt that just back up what Ian said ::) ::)
Dave
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Hi Guys and Ian in particular.
I have merged these very similar topics as the board is in danger of being swamped with them.
Ian , your writing style and length of post has completely changed in the past few days, can you acredit the author of these recent posts.
Cheers
doug
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My writing style and essay length has been like this since my school / college days. ( A long time ago).
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Ian
I get the gist of what you are saying about hwe at the appropriate temperature killing the dust mites near the surface and leving moisture in the carpet leaving a damp environment for them to breed.
Surely with the phenominal suction of a truck mount, would not the suction remove completely the whole infestation, and if not, surely the pressure of such machines would reach the bottom of the pile subsequently getting at the problem. Also the nature of the chemical being of either an acidic or alkaline make up, would in my opinion hinder development in said damp environment due to the chemical action alone on the offending mites or their eggs.
Any thoughts on this?
Dave
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A good HWE system should do a very good job on carpet, which is excellent for us. :D
However, mites are in their largest numbers in mattresses and upholstered furniture which is what I was referring to.
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Yes i can see the sense in that statement, and yes an allergy treatment for mattresses and upholstery would be an advantage. I think the only drawback to this is that they issue licences to limit the number of carpet cleaners in an area who can apply the treatment. Will this therefore create a monopoly for the licence holders?
I think that if these treatments are found to be effective, then the large chemical manufacturers will soon bring out an equivalent offered to the majority in our profession rather than the minority, thus making it affordable for all.
Dave
Dave
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I'm not going to mention any particular branded products. My aim to simply present my view in a hopefully balanced way.
As I understand matters though, there is a license in force for one particular product which may put some off using it, however it is available to non-licensees too, they just pay a little more and don't get the associated back up product and sales training, or advertising generated leads. As professional tradesmen we therefore, have a choice as to whether to use the product or not, and the way in which we purchase it.
Personally I feel it's worth giving every supplier in our trade an opportunity to impress us, by sampling their wares, and then making choices based on our personal preference.
Regards Ian.
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Obviously then, if you are a licensee you can use their logo on your advertising, but if you are not you can't.
Dave
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Hi All
A dust mite has 8 legs and the bulid up of these are amazing! just trying to suck them up with any t/m will not work! they have hooks, suckers, spikes etc and no matter what you do they will never go away! that is why we dont worry about them so much and work on the problem!
The product that Ian is talking about can not be copyied as it is world patented, plus has pantented combination of active substances. So I would say the chance of it getting copied are small.
Also if you are not a network member you can not put it in any form of adverting or websites that you use it. Some have tryied and have been stoped! at there cost! network members get more that a little discount on cost of products Ian. ( more like up to 60 % off ;D ;D ;D)
Last year my company won an award for the work and sales of this product. This week we have paid to renew our membership for the South Wales area (Bridgend to Newport) for life! with another company taking Newport to Bristol area. There are over 50 companys now joined! all over the Uk, Ireland and places like the Isle Of White etc and all remaining areas are now ltd. This week a very big name in this industry has joined!! this should raise some eyebrows! :-X
Regards
Gavin
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I take it from this statement though that if you can buy the product, but obviously at a higher cost, you could mention in your advertising that you can treat peoples mattresses and furniture etc with an allergy treatment, but cannot say on your advertising literaure what it is or name it.
I hope this is a lucrative business for you cleaners who are part of this network, but if it wasn't i doubt you would come on here and tell everybody about it.
i think you will find that when somebody like prochem decides to market a similar product, your so called monopoly will be deminished. :'(
Dave
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Hi Dave
"I take it from this statement though that if you can buy the product, but obviously at a higher cost, you could mention in your advertising that you can treat peoples mattresses and furniture etc with an allergy treatment, but cannot say on your advertising literaure what it is or name it."
Thats is right!
Did you not read my last post it can not be copyied! If something else come's out then thats fine as my company made alot of money from this last year just on this one service! so my money has been made over and over just profit from now! my company is on radio wales next week talking about it! just in time for spring cleaning! ;D ;D
Regards Gavin
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Hi Dave, (spot on cleaning)
your statement about use of logo is correct as I understand it.
Regards Ian.
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I wonder if you could use a logo which said
Allergen Free.
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At th end of the day, i am all for businesses like ours being able to provide a comprehensive package to the customer, as long as those larger firms out there do not think that because they have bought a licence to spray a bit of chemical on things, that they will be mopping up all the work. They come across as being smug with "I've got this area, and he's got that area" I couldn,t give a monkees
If the allergin treatments are that good, then surely somebody will rival this, and all they have to do is to change some ingredient to make the product a seperate entity. This will then release these products to a wider audience at a reduced price for cc's and customers alike.
And i still say, if you were a sufferer of Asthma and its related side effects you would spend out on this treatment and carry on for fear of stopping. They are an easy audience to target and people know it.
Funny how these channel 4 programmes didn't mention anything about these treatments for carpets and soft furnishings. These people would have done their homework before putting a programme like this together.
Dave
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Hi Dave
in your words
"At the end of the day, i am all for businesses like ours being able to provide a comprehensive package to the customer, as long as those larger firms out there do not think that because they have bought a licence to spray a bit of chemical on things, that they will be mopping up all the work. They come across as being smug with "I've got this area, and he's got that area" I couldn,t give a monkees"
I do not own a licence I am a Network member!
Allerg-STOP is not a chemical but a combination of active substances ie fruit try to get your facts right before you post!
Did I say I will be mopping up all the work! and if I think that what has it got to do with you what I think! at the end of the there is work for all of us out there! It just so happens that I am the network member in your area and you don't like it. Sorry if that upsets :( you but my company has been there from the start.
I am far from smug! name calling is very childish and I dont like it. this a forum were we try to help one other and all so give facts! and the fact is you don't like the facts ::)
Dave you seem to give a big monkeys to me :-*
Regards Gavin
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Gavin
If i have come across as childish, then i apologize. Perhaps i have become confused between licencees and operators as well.
It was just your statement you made previously about making a lot of money last year and again doing so when spring cleaning comes around again. Yes i agree that there is a lot of work for all, but in my opinion in that one statement alone you came across as boasting somewhat by saying "Ive got this area, and nobody else can market this product by way of advertising it by name, because i have bought in for life ;D"
Then informing us that a national player had also bought into it that should raise a few eyebrows?
What i should have put across differently was the fact that i along with many other cc's are not worrying about these treatments, and my wording obviously offended you in some way.
But i do think that at some point in the future, somebody is bound to jump on the bandwagon and malke an alternative available to all. It seems strange to me that i can buy the product, but cannot tell people that i am using it.
Dave
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Gavin,
Dave is just trying to put an alternitive point of view.
I do not think it does The Network any good to call him childish.
Glad to see you have changed your Website, when I looked earlier in the year you were still promoting the rival product.
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...this a forum were we try to help one other and all so give facts!...
I am not saying that AS does not work, but so far I have only red people thoughts / statements here, but have not seen any links to an independent studies of the product.
Can somebody bring some fact?
Regards,
Arthur
Added later:
For how long can AS protect a mattress from the dust mites?
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Hi Dave / Ian
I did not call anyone childish! I said name calling is childish!! lets stop twisting words chaps!
I could not change my website for ages as I forgot password!! Nick was not a happy chappy!! ::) but as you can see I have done this sort of work for a while and have a good client base for this service.
Dave there are loads of other good products out there you can use and promote. sorry if me making money from this product upsets you but thats what Im here to do.
You read to much in to things dave
For example I did not say national player! I said a big name in this industry! (not a company) but a carpet cleaner just like you and me, but he is very well known in this industry! and will be great to have him on board!
Regards Gavin
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Hi Arthur
Please find below a link to facts you asked for.
http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/index.php?show_aux_page=5
Hope this help you and maybe others
Regards Gavin
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Gavin
I am not upset by people making money. If that was the case, i wouldn't have come into this business knowing that there are established larger businesses out there already. All i can say is that we are all here to make money and i have invested heavily, as you have in good equipment. I am sure that the smaller businesses like myself take inspiration from the larger firms like yourself, and it gives us something to work towards
Regarding allergy treatment, if i was asked to provide it, then i would think about it. In 4 years of trading, i have only ever been asked to clean 2 pair of curtains, which i don't do and apply creepy crawly treatment once. Obviously we move in different circles.
I think you will agree though, with allergy treatments you do have a ready market available to you with the number of sufferers, but as to the effectiveness of the treatments, i am still not convinced fully. As Arthur said this is just an opinion. I will take the time to read the accompanying literature for this product.
As i said earlier, i hope i am not coming across as abrasive.
Ian, Thank's for supporting my last posting. This forum would never be as successful if it were not for difference of opinion.
Dave
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Gavin,
You write
'Allerg-STOP is not a chemical but a combination of active substances ie fruit try to get your facts right before you post!'
This is just plain nonsense , of course AS is a chemical or a mixture of several chemicals.
As I understand it is predominantly Auxillase which is a protease enzyme derived from the Papaya fruit by Merck.
http://www.merck.de/servlet/PB/menu/1426170/index.html
http://chemdat.merck.de/pls/pi03/web2.zoom_in?text=107138&screen=110&cid=861210155&pg=1&s=auxillase&lang=4
Everything is made up of chemicals ;)
Cheers
Doug
P.s Is this great luminary Dave Ingram ?
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Many people use the term 'chemical free' when only water ( chem formula H2O) is used for rinsing, so the term is not strictly true.
They usually mean no 'harsh / harmful chemicals' used.
This term itself though, is an debatable point, what constitutes a harsh / harmful chemical?
There may be differing opinions as to what is and isn't.
The beauty of these forums is that there is a wide spread of knowledge and an exchange of varied and differing viewpoints.
Hopefully, these views and opinions will continue to be put over in a balanced and respectful way to each other.
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Ian,
A reasonable point and one I strive to make is to distingiush between marketing terms such as chemical free,microsplitter,truckmount 20x more powerful,best CC ever ,safe etc and technical terms which is where we should be concentrating.
A technical person would not for example claim a product is safe unless it has been rigorously tested in the market for many years.
Marketing terms are usually thought up by sales orientated people with a very tenuous grip on science.
I have worked in both technical and sales and have seen it from both sides.
Cheers
Doug
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Gentlemen
Every time the subject of the A/S product range is raised, there is acrimony and argument, among people, who otherwise, have a general affinity.........How sad!
The blame for this divisive state of affairs, lies with the individual who attempted to market his range in an artificial, controlled environment...........Misguided?
I am impressed by Gavin's use of the products to grow his business and others would do well to consider his drive and enthusiasm, which, in his case, has come from, a belief in these products and encouraged him to become an aggressive marketer.
Without being a network member of any particular organisation, you could all adopt a ' specialist ' product and use it to drive your business forward, it's all to do with ' marketing ' and it's a hell of a lot easier to market a business when it's perceived as giving the client something special, but............. it must be something that makes you stand out from the crowd and..........represent's value for money, in the client's mind.
There are various products on the market which will kill and control allergens and it would be extremely easy for a chemical manufacturers r&d dept to replicate, if they
wanted to.........but with the limited market, there is probably little viability.
I have no intention of purchasing the A/S products, but if I did buy a product to use in c/c, no matter from whom I purchased it...........no one would stop me from mentioning the product in any advertising I decided to carry out.........the exception to this, would be, where it might deliberately mislead , eg, using the Woolsafe logo, without qualification.
rob m
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I can only agree in the most part with your comments gentlemen.
Doug, I hope you didn't think I was having a dig at your previous post :D if anything, I was trying to be tactfully supportive without causing offence to anyone else. :D
Regards and professional respect Ian.
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Ian,
Do you know for how long AS can protect a mattress / pillows / carpets etc from the dust mites?
Regards,
Arthur
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Ian,
I did not think you were having a go at me in anyway and I respect your always helpful and sensible contributions , as I do Gavins.
There is always more than one way to look at things and I suppose years of working in a lab and testing / seeing the latest 'breakthrough' has left me a bit sceptical of wonder claims.
My old boss used to say we rediscover the wheel every 7 years.
My advertising is full of marketing claims and I expect suppliers to make similar pitches in my direction.
Where things become blurred is where suppliers who are also carpet cleaners attempt to pass off marketing as scientific fact.
All I try to do is use my technical knowledge to cut through some of the bull as I believe the more we know about the real technical aspects , the better judgements we can make.
Cheers
Doug
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A J,
I didn't intend this post to be product specific, just generic information. :D
Specific product questions about any product, may be better answered by the supplier, then you will have first hand up to date information, as opposed to my personal view.
That said, I believe it is between 6 and 12 months, for that product.
Best wishes Ian.
Doug, thank you, no misunderstanding then. :D
Regards Ian.
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Hi Arther
"Do you know for how long AS can protect a mattress / pillows / carpets etc from the dust mites?"
A/S protect's a mattress for 4-6 months, so you would need to spray your mattress 2 - 3 a year, one bottle will do this easy! so the cost for having your mattress treated is only about 50p a week at most! good when you think how much use your mattress gets!
hope this helps
Regards Gavin
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...this a forum were we try to help one other and all so give facts!...
I am not saying that AS does not work, but so far I have only red people thoughts / statements here, but have not seen any links to an independent studies of the product.
Can somebody bring some fact?
Regards,
Arthur
Added later:
For how long can AS protect a mattress from the dust mites?
Test results
http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/index.php?show_aux_page=4
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Hi Steve
Come on mate keep up! ive already given test results out earlyer in post! ;)
My turn to get you ;D ;D
Gav
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Gav
See Steve’s into time and motion link is better only one click. ;D ;D
A dust mite has 8 legs and the bulid up of these are amazing! just trying to suck them up with any t/m will not work! Can’t disagree but have you seen the latest Dyson TV advert here’s there link http://www.dyson.co.uk/default.asp?sicampaignppc=keywords&sicampaigntopic=google (click on where others vacuums loss suction and have a look round) 8)
Len