Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: groundhog on August 09, 2014, 02:13:07 pm
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I have a friend who is very keen to build himself a round as he is going to lose his job in a couple of months time. He has been asking me lots of questions about how long it would take to build a reasonable round. Now its a long time ago that I started out building my round, but I reckon that it probably took a few months to get a round with a livable wage coming in. How long has it taken you guys to build up to a reasonable level?
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2 years
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2 years
Blimey!! Thats a long time to build a round!! I think it just depends on the effort you put in to build the round up, the more leaflets you deliver and doors you knock on then the more customers you are going to get.
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21 years!(to build a very decent round!) ;D ;D
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Canvassing 1 in 50 (50 knocks per hour)
Leaflets 2.5 per 1000 (100/150 leaflets per hour)
Retention approx 75%
Average cost per clean X
frequency of clean ?
You do the maths
Have fun
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21 years!(to build a very decent round!) ;D ;D
Ok I can see that I'm not going to get any sensible answers here! I am going to help him build his round, and I reckon that if he does as I advise him then he should have a reasonable sized round in a few months time. The thing with window cleaning is that like most things in life, the more effort you put in, then the more rewards you get out of it!
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Canvassing 1 in 50 (50 knocks per hour)
Leaflets 2.5 per 1000 (100/150 leaflets per hour)
Retention approx 75%
Average cost per clean X
frequency of clean ?
You do the maths
Have fun
Thanks for that John, although I have to say that my experience is that the numbers of customers gained from leaflets and door knocking is far greater that what you suggest above! When I first started out I targeted a couple of newly built estates by first leafleting then following up the next day by knocking the doors, and my success rate was almost 1 customer for every 3 doors knocked! Mind you I'm very good at it!! ;)
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You'll get out what you put in, that means canvassing evenings and weekends booking in first cleans during the day then back out canvassing, no slacking off for little holidays, weekends away, oh, can't be bothered today blah blah
And you should be able to generate enough customers to bring in 1k to 1500 turnover every four week cycle after 10 to 12 weeks
Has your friend done window cleaning before ?
Darran
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You'll get out what you put in, that means canvassing evenings and weekends booking in first cleans during the day then back out canvassing, no slacking off for little holidays, weekends away, oh, can't be bothered today blah blah
And you should be able to generate enough customers to bring in 1k to 1500 turnover every four week cycle after 10 to 12 weeks
Has your friend done window cleaning before ?
Darran
Thats how I see it too Darran! He has no experience at all, but I'm going to take him out with me for a week or so to show him the ropes. Thanks
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I think Ben M is about right actually.
He could build a round in a couple of weeks but to hone it to a 'living wage' I think would be a couple of years.
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I think Ben M is about right actually.
He could build a round in a couple of weeks but to hone it to a 'living wage' I think would be a couple of years.
Depends on how many leaflets you are prepared to deliver, how many hours work you are prepared to put in, how well you price the jobs and how good you are at dealing with people! I know that I took over one hundred customers on in one week when I first started my round, by leafleting on new estates and following up with door knocking.
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Two years for a living wage ? You'd never make it at that rate
I had 4 months to get an income of £1600 pm to cover household bills etc...
I was at around £1800 12 was in, that was 5 yrs ago.
Groundhog, the biggest problem I see is the learning curve of WFP, learning all the little tricks of the trade, battling weather conditions, equipment. If he's dedicated and you can help him out over the first few weeks by training and guidance then he will make it, but any sign of slacking will ultimately lead to failure as the rewards will not materialise
Darran
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I pit my soul into builing up my business again, although i have been going 12 years, i decided to restart 3 years ago, and in 3 years i have built up 2 full rounds!
I dont see how the hell he will do it in a few months?? It isnt possible, how would a newbie be able to cram in so many first cleans, how would a newbie manage to even gain that many to be going strong in a few months on his own??.
A nice average round would be 400 customers(100 customers a week or 20 a day mon to fri)
You wont want more than 20 new first cleans a week to do but having said that the reality of him getting even that many a week is pretty slim and then you will average a 25 percent dropout rate before and after the first cleans!. Be a realist if he is trusting you for advice and help! It will take at least a 6 months to a year to get a sort of reliable customer base but 2 years plus to be full of decent customers and that would be going some.
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its taken me 2 years to get to 360 customers - Good customers with the average of £11 per a customer.
It took about 2 months of solid weekend and evenings to build up the first 100 and about 4 months to be on £1500 PM.
that being said I have dumped a lot of time wasters and hard cleans over the years to get to where I am now. George database is showing almost 600 customers I have gone through.
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Mick- there is no reason whatsoever why it can't be done you require 8 customers day at £10 average at the of 12 weeks. That's £80 a day for four weeks, canvass hard from 5.30 till dusk now every evening will get you between 2 and 6 per night even at the lower end 3 cycles gets you 168 customers in 12 weeks
And your telling me you can't manage 3 first cleans in a day ???
On the second cycle you'll have a few regular cleans and another 3 new cleans
Darran
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took me 3 years to build a good round, with only good customers. No rubbish jobs :)
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A good round takes at least 2 years.
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I pit my soul into builing up my business again, although i have been going 12 years, i decided to restart 3 years ago, and in 3 years i have built up 2 full rounds!
I dont see how the hell he will do it in a few months?? It isnt possible, how would a newbie be able to cram in so many first cleans, how would a newbie manage to even gain that many to be going strong in a few months on his own??.
A nice average round would be 400 customers(100 customers a week or 20 a day mon to fri)
You wont want more than 20 new first cleans a week to do but having said that the reality of him getting even that many a week is pretty slim and then you will average a 25 percent dropout rate before and after the first cleans!. Be a realist if he is trusting you for advice and help! It will take at least a 6 months to a year to get a sort of reliable customer base but 2 years plus to be full of decent customers and that would be going some.
I love it when someone tells me something isn't possible!! What you actually mean is that it's not possible for you!! And a 25% dropout? How does that happen? I rarely lose a customer, never more than 2 or 3 a year!!
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OHH, I remember all those first cleans..... LOl I thought its would never end. It can suck up your days, then theres the round route to sort out. driving all over the place for the first 6 months till you have enough customers to get a route.
then life starts getting easier.
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I pit my soul into builing up my business again, although i have been going 12 years, i decided to restart 3 years ago, and in 3 years i have built up 2 full rounds!
I dont see how the hell he will do it in a few months?? It isnt possible, how would a newbie be able to cram in so many first cleans, how would a newbie manage to even gain that many to be going strong in a few months on his own??.
A nice average round would be 400 customers(100 customers a week or 20 a day mon to fri)
You wont want more than 20 new first cleans a week to do but having said that the reality of him getting even that many a week is pretty slim and then you will average a 25 percent dropout rate before and after the first cleans!. Be a realist if he is trusting you for advice and help! It will take at least a 6 months to a year to get a sort of reliable customer base but 2 years plus to be full of decent customers and that would be going some.
I love it when someone tells me something isn't possible!! What you actually mean is that it's not possible for you!! And a 25% dropout? How does that happen? I rarely lose a customer, never more than 2 or 3 a year!!
Seriously? Only 2 or 3 a year? I reckon that on a new round the drop out rate is higher than 25%. I would also say that if you really only lose 2 or 3 a year you are too cheap.
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I started a new round 2 years ago and I'm nearly full now, don't think I could have done it any quicker as i've canvassed like mad for 2 years, also i'd been a window cleaner for 10 years previous so I knew already how to canvass, how to do first cleans etc.
I think you're dreaming if you think you can build up a round in a couple of months.
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Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
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Mick- there is no reason whatsoever why it can't be done you require 8 customers day at £10 average at the of 12 weeks. That's £80 a day for four weeks, canvass hard from 5.30 till dusk now every evening will get you between 2 and 6 per night even at the lower end 3 cycles gets you 168 customers in 12 weeks
And your telling me you can't manage 3 first cleans in a day ???
On the second cycle you'll have a few regular cleans and another 3 new cleans
Darran
No i managed much more than that! I have a big head when it comes to round building and have hit it from all angles but i have been in the game a verey long time.
This topic was how long for a new starter who hasnt cleaned or canvassed before to build a reasonable round. Its not as easy as it was 5 years ago otherwise these how long questions from already established guys wouldnt come up.
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Have to agree 25% dropout is high! I personally would have had to question my ability at that rate! at worst it run at 2 to 3%
I do think some have got the wrong end of the stick, it was asked how long would it take for the guy to get a 'living wage' not an all singing all dancing refined full to the max round, these provide far more than a 'living wage'
The round should always be developed and improved gaining better customers and prices dropping those that you priced too cheaply or mess you around.
Darran
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Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
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I was thinking the same , he asked for peoples opinions yet has disagreed with everyone. ???
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He always does ste.groundhog is a bit arrogant and argumentative to say the least!anyone remember his ridiculous video of him racing round a house with his harris pole a few years ago!comical!!haha. ;D
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Have to agree 25% dropout is high! I personally would have had to question my ability at that rate! at worst it run at 2 to 3%
I do think some have got the wrong end of the stick, it was asked how long would it take for the guy to get a 'living wage' not an all singing all dancing refined full to the max round, these provide far more than a 'living wage'
The round should always be developed and improved gaining better customers and prices dropping those that you priced too cheaply or mess you around.
Darran
2 to 3% in the first year? That is remarkably low. I reckon of the first 30 customers I lost half at least in the first 6 months. Messers, one offs etc. I agree on 2/3% eventually if your prices are keen. I reckon I lose maybe 5% a year.
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when i said 2 years, i should have said at least 2 years!
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You're right Smudger, I did miss-read the original post, it's taken me 2 years to make an almost full round, ie top money day in day out all month.
To get it to a 'living wage' which I would guess is £1.5-£2.5k a month could probably be done in 6 months to a year.
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id recommend him starting next year get as much money saved up as possible begin canvassing for new round in jan or feb to begin cleaning in march for beginning of spring this way he get to just concentrate and focus solely on getting customers without having to cram in all the first cleans he could begin helping u one or two days a week now to get up to speed by then.its getting a bit late in the year now id say with winter round the corner all those frosty morning will put him off if he capable at canvassing he should be able to get 20-30 customers a week minimum by march he could have 150-200 customers to crack on with first cleans he will prob lose 30-40% of these over next few months so he should continue to canvass and leaflet etc
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Have to agree 25% dropout is high! I personally would have had to question my ability at that rate! at worst it run at 2 to 3%
I do think some have got the wrong end of the stick, it was asked how long would it take for the guy to get a 'living wage' not an all singing all dancing refined full to the max round, these provide far more than a 'living wage'
The round should always be developed and improved gaining better customers and prices dropping those that you priced too cheaply or mess you around.
Darran
i think it depends on areas you have canvassed to be honest on nice estates with older people in late 40s to 50s drop outs are low on council estates i think people just are happy getting windows cleaned once or twice a year and do drop out and use any old excuse to cancel
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it takes years and I mean years to build a descent round not months ;
a lot of the custies you take on will be time wasters and users maybe one in every four will be solid good custies .
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21 years!(to build a very decent round!) ;D ;D
Ok I can see that I'm not going to get any sensible answers here! I am going to help him build his round, and I reckon that if he does as I advise him then he should have a reasonable sized round in a few months time. The thing with window cleaning is that like most things in life, the more effort you put in, then the more rewards you get out of it!
How do you expect a sensible answer when you didn't ask a sensible question.
A half sensible question would have been.
How guys I'm looking to build a round in xxxxxxx could anybody tell me how saturated this area is with window cleaners
and would it be possible to build a decent round here in a reasonable time frame.
Doesn't matter how much effort you put in, if the customers in that area all have shiners that they are happy with then you
wont get the custom.
If there is a shortage of decent window cleaners then your in luck.
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Have to agree 25% dropout is high! I personally would have had to question my ability at that rate! at worst it run at 2 to 3%
I do think some have got the wrong end of the stick, it was asked how long would it take for the guy to get a 'living wage' not an all singing all dancing refined full to the max round, these provide far more than a 'living wage'
The round should always be developed and improved gaining better customers and prices dropping those that you priced too cheaply or mess you around.
Darran
With respect i think a 75 percent stay rate is great after all the roundbuilding i did, i dont doubt my ability at all as now with over 1200 domestics mainly being £10 fronts i lose at most 1/2 a month for various reasons which i always replace when gets to 10! And i have everything running like clockwork which was my 5 year plan but luckily i did it in just over 3.
I dont believe anyone who say they lost only a few percent whilst building up!. Did you not drop customers/have 1 off's have bad payers who you had to drop?? Customers who simply just wast happy with wfp or the finish??.
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its taken me 2 years to get to 360 customers - Good customers with the average of £11 per a customer.
It took about 2 months of solid weekend and evenings to build up the first 100 and about 4 months to be on £1500 PM.
that being said I have dumped a lot of time wasters and hard cleans over the years to get to where I am now. George database is showing almost 600 customers I have gone through.
I'm close to that 301 custys and 104 dumped / moved out
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When I first got into window cleaning 17 years ago, a friend of mine took me on part time and showed me the ropes.
After working with him for about 3 months, he encouraged me to try and build up some custom of my own. After a couple of weeks of canvassing, I had enough work to more than cover my wages, and I went it alone. After about 2 years of picking up work by word of mouth and walk ups, I was full to the brim. Very few messers, in fact work flooded in without any effort. The hardest thing was being able to keep up with my workload.
Three years ago, we sold up and moved to Ireland, where I started up again. I canvassed for a few months, knocking on around 5000 doors (around half of the town) and picked up some customers but found it very different to my earlier experience. Drop off rate was high, with plenty of messers, and I began to wonder if I was going to succeed. Having told myself that failure is not an option, I ploughed on, building, culling and building some more. It took me about 18 months to 2 years to make what I would call a living wage. We survived, but it was tough going.
I have just completed my third year, and am now around 80 per cent full. I am continually refining my business, and this will be ongoing, with culling and replacing with better work.
I believe my experience to be a fair reflection of what any new starter can expect.
John
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Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
I agree with this 25% in the first 6-12 months is the norm. I've built a round in Dublin - 25%, three rounds in Manchester over 7 years, 25% again. We do a very good job, no splash and dash.
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If you continue to build, you continue to lose customers. Here's an example from last week. A £35 8 weekly job had put a bike lock on a 5 bar gate at the side of the house. I climbed over a dragged the hose. Mid clean she returned and the first thing she said was "you'll have to let me know you are coming from now on". I asked why and she pointed to the main property gate in front of the drive and said that one will be locked from now on. Ok, says I, but I can tell she is not happy that I went over the 5 bar gate and when the cheque arrived a couple of days later a note said her husband was going to do them from now on. If you want to grow, you will lose them all the time. Unavoidable.
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I've just looked at George and taking in to account one-offs, messers I got rid of, people sacking me, and people moving home, my drop out rate is also around 25% over the years.
That's the reality.
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Hmmmm..
So mick, I am a liar then? You choose to call me this because I have built a round up in 3 months that replaced a 28k salary paye job. - you say that can't be done, but you can canvass and get 50 customers in an evening - well done mick !!
It's a shame that for one one who posting constantly on success that anyone else's experience must be fictional.
Anyway my experience is as follows, of the first 50 customers I canvassed 35 are still customers after 5 years - none of these dropped out in the first year, over the years some moved, one died, a few did did stop and I put the prices right up on the others because as you do when starting out are a little cheap (£7 for a bungalow with conny)
So they 'left' currently our fall out rate is maybe 2 customers per month is does vary on the time of year so that is around 0.02% of our domestic customer base. Been focused on building up pressure washing at the moment so not canvassed for windows, only leafleting and ad in the local rag but these bring in approx 100 enquiries per month of which I price and convert 65% of them
I'm always happy to help people on this forum and share experiences, ideas etc, I try to do it in an unbiased way
Darran
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Mick you said a while back that
You built your father in law a round in two months. So why wouldn't any one else do it
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Smudger mate i didnt say your a lier! You made a dig that was made as a personal dig at me saying you would question your ability if 25% dropped whilst building for which i simply said i was happy with and have always found to be the norm from all the canvassing i have done over the years for myself and others.
I wasnt doubting a success at all as you seem to have done realy well and much better than be! in fact all i doubted was you saying you only had a 2-3 percent drop rate whilst building over the first 6 months as i have never seen or had it that low.
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Mick you said a while back that
You built your father in law a round in two months. So why wouldn't any one else do it
Err?? Whats building a round got to do with the drop rate of 6 months??
The final drop rate of my step dads round was over 30 percent after 6 months, only had a few in the first month as was a husband and wife team but after they spotted the messers and problems and had the not happy brigades and the unreliables the drop off rate grows untill your left with the "ideal customer base from your building".
Maybe you missread what i was saying.
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I dont believe anyone who say they lost only a few percent whilst building up!
Your words mick
No dig at you Mick, quite simply if when starting out I was losing 25 percent of customers that quickly I personally (as stated) would have doubted my ability at doing the job correctly and would have packed up, fair play to your persistence
Darran
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Hmmmm..
So mick, I am a liar then? You choose to call me this because I have built a round up in 3 months that replaced a 28k salary paye job. - you say that can't be done, but you can canvass and get 50 customers in an evening - well done mick !!
It's a shame that for one one who posting constantly on success that anyone else's experience must be fictional.
Anyway my experience is as follows, of the first 50 customers I canvassed 35 are still customers after 5 years - none of these dropped out in the first year, over the years some moved, one died, a few did did stop and I put the prices right up on the others because as you do when starting out are a little cheap (£7 for a bungalow with conny)
So they 'left' currently our fall out rate is maybe 2 customers per month is does vary on the time of year so that is around 0.02% of our domestic customer base. Been focused on building up pressure washing at the moment so not canvassed for windows, only leafleting and ad in the local rag but these bring in approx 100 enquiries per month of which I price and convert 65% of them
I'm always happy to help people on this forum and share experiences, ideas etc, I try to do it in an unbiased way
Darran
smudger thats a fair amount of enquiries your receiving every month just from leaflets and an advert in local rag how many leaflets do u drop a month on average?
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1k per week on friday/Saturday- not me personally we employ (self employed basis)
He's a fitness fanatic so jogs around the villages usually hits around 140 per hr paid £60 per 1000 and is paid a bonus £5 per lead that becomes a job - just to clarify not all of those 100 leads come from leaflets :) We advertise in the local rag, parish mags, internet, vans rec'ds, etc.
Darran
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Ref the original question, how long is a piece of string?
How much time are you prepared to spend?
What frequency of cleans? (66% of ours are 12-weekly, so our rounds are much bigger)
How much money do you want to spend on leafletting if that's your choice?
How many days a year do you want to clean?
What time of year are you kicking off?
In summer, we fill a round in roughly 16 weeks. Over winter last year it took 30 weeks. But we're leafletting in volume and our franchises are based upon three day weeks.
If you're canvassing in summer, a customer per hour is reasonable. If you're leafletting, work on about 4 customers per thousand leaflets.
Then you need to do the maths based upon the questions above to find out how long his definition of a "full" round will take to fill.
For us around 20% - 25% don't make it to the end of their first year with us. One-offs and "three clean wonders" do that.
Vin
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3months to build a round 350 plus customers.10% bi monthly.
Giving a very liveable wage.
3years later still building and refining round.
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So seems about right then a 25 percent dropout rate whilst building as everyone else seems to have the same results.
I have rarely had better than 25 percent and have had as high as 50/75 percent drop in some cases for other people in lower earning areas/council and housing assosiation areas. I think a 75 percent average retaining retention after 6 months is brilliant for anyone building a window cleaning business and defo not to be ashamed of or doubtfull of ability to do the job itself.
I know i could go and canvass 400 customers within 6 months with a few helpers by my side and id guarantee at least 100 of those customers wont be customers anymore within 0-6 months many of them being within 2 months would be gone. Thats just my experiance from doing it on and off for 10 years.
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That is 30% in 5 years Darran. Thats about 6% a year. I guess I pose on average 2/3 a month now for all sorts of reasons. Messers are rare now. They are screened out before the first clean usually. The ones that cancel I am usually happy to lose. I have 450 customers.
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1k per week on friday/Saturday- not me personally we employ (self employed basis)
He's a fitness fanatic so jogs around the villages usually hits around 140 per hr paid £60 per 1000 and is paid a bonus £5 per lead that becomes a job - just to clarify not all of those 100 leads come from leaflets :) We advertise in the local rag, parish mags, internet, vans rec'ds, etc.
Darran
decent amount of steady work coming in tho, ive never really measure the amount of work that comes in might look at measuring it when i start again although i dont really need anymore work, ill still keep leaflet going out as i like to keep my business name known locally
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
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He always does ste.groundhog is a bit arrogant and argumentative to say the least!anyone remember his ridiculous video of him racing round a house with his harris pole a few years ago!comical!!haha. ;D
You obviously have forgotten all the advice I gave you when you first started Dazmond! Not sure why I bothered? And as for my Harris pole video's, you weren't even a member of the forum back then! And although some were quick to criticise, many thanked me for showing how quickly it was possible to clean windows with wfp, even with the cheapest of poles!
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Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
Who said anything about it being easy? But I can guarantee that if someone is determined enough and prepared to put in the work, then there really is no limit to how quickly and successfully a round can be built! Just because you couldn't do it, dosn't mean that nobody can!!
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So I try to give a reasonable answer but the focus seems to be on slagging people off.
No wonder I'm on my 3rd or 4th account on this board.
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Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
Who said anything about it being easy? But I can guarantee that if someone is determined enough and prepared to put in the work, then there really is no limit to how quickly and successfully a round can be built! Just because you couldn't do it, dosn't mean that nobody can!!
I couldnt do what??
I started again from scratch matey, I went from 0-1200 customers in 3 years going through over 2000 customers in total before cancelations and culling. No rubbish underpriced spread out customers, but decent compact mainly front well priced customers! 2 vans out That do 25-35 jobs a day every day and are home by 3pm and never any later and never start any earlier than 9 unless doing commercial work..Lets see you manage to do that!.
But this isnt about me or you is it! You said how long for someone who hasnt a clue who hasnt done window cleaning or round building before to build a round with a steady income, all i said was it takes 2 years to build a half decent round and 6 months-a year before a half decent wage could be pulled from it. Why make a thread if you wont listen to anyone. Everyone has said the same 6-12 months to pull a livable wage (especialy if has a family) and min of 2 years to have a full round.
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!
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Another one today. I have just done a second clean. Was browsing Rightmove and it is newly advertised for sale. When you are looking for new work, a lot doesn't last the course.
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!
You do read some nonsense on this forum at times, its possible to canvass 60 properties in two nights and get the whole 60
at £20 a go monthly.
Its also possible to get 150 new 20 pound monthly customers in one week which would give you an excellent living.
Two or more customers for every hour of canvassing is achievable if their are two or more customers who need and want a window cleaner.
Yes the more you get out there and chase the work the more you will improve you chances of succeeding, but there are no guarantees
in this or any business.
90% or more of the guys on here don't think its possible to build a round in such a short space of time, they have come to that conclusion because of their own experiences.
Does that mean its impossible ? absolutely not but it does mean the odds are against it.
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David Moyes is forgetting that back in 1991 window cleaning wasn't a profession that many
people wanted to get into unemployed or not.
Working from ladders had a lot to do with it.
WFP has changed this a lot which means we are all competing with a lot more window cleaners per
property than there would have been then.
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!
You do read some nonsense on this forum at times, its possible to canvass 60 properties in two nights and get the whole 60
at £20 a go monthly.
Its also possible to get 150 new 20 pound monthly customers in one week which would give you an excellent living.
Two or more customers for every hour of canvassing is achievable if their are two or more customers who need and want a window cleaner.
Yes the more you get out there and chase the work the more you will improve you chances of succeeding, but there are no guarantees
in this or any business.
90% or more of the guys on here don't think its possible to build a round in such a short space of time, they have come to that conclusion because of their own experiences.
Does that mean its impossible ? absolutely not but it does mean the odds are against it.
Why do you say nonsense? You say at the bottom of your message that it is not impossible! I am a determined person, and if I put my mind to something then I will do everything possible to achieve it, sure 90+% of window cleaners will find it impossible to build a round in a short space of time, but I am in the 10% who will find a way to achieve it!! I've always been like that, back in my School days we took part in a sponsored event, the highest amount of money raised by another pupil was £18, I raised £186 which back in 1980 was not bad for a 11 year old!! ;)
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!
You do read some nonsense on this forum at times, its possible to canvass 60 properties in two nights and get the whole 60
at £20 a go monthly.
Its also possible to get 150 new 20 pound monthly customers in one week which would give you an excellent living.
Two or more customers for every hour of canvassing is achievable if their are two or more customers who need and want a window cleaner.
Yes the more you get out there and chase the work the more you will improve you chances of succeeding, but there are no guarantees
in this or any business.
90% or more of the guys on here don't think its possible to build a round in such a short space of time, they have come to that conclusion because of their own experiences.
Does that mean its impossible ? absolutely not but it does mean the odds are against it.
I'm not getting why you call my post nonsense. I gave some pretty conservative example figures. I've done two hours canvassing before and got nothing. Another time I might get 8 or 10. It's only possible to give example figures after all. I admit that I've done little canvassing in recent years until the last few weeks. But if someone picks up 5 new custies per canvassing session, 60 sessions would give them a full round or thereabouts (300 custies). Doing those 60 sessions in just over 2 months would be gutty but I'm sure that some would do it. Personally, I would have to be seriously desperate to try it because I like to do things other than cleaning windows and door knocking.
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hey groundhog no offence!but it seems to me you live in cloud cuckoo land. sure people are so desperate for a window cleaner,I'm sure they will unroll the red carpet the moment you rattle their letterbox.
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It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then. However, it started slowly for two main reasons. I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning). Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full. However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job. That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable. So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing. 100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks. 150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly). By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in. So, say between 5 and 7.30. 2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri). Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations. There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.
All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines. There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.
Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!
You do read some nonsense on this forum at times, its possible to canvass 60 properties in two nights and get the whole 60
at £20 a go monthly.
Its also possible to get 150 new 20 pound monthly customers in one week which would give you an excellent living.
Two or more customers for every hour of canvassing is achievable if their are two or more customers who need and want a window cleaner.
Yes the more you get out there and chase the work the more you will improve you chances of succeeding, but there are no guarantees
in this or any business.
90% or more of the guys on here don't think its possible to build a round in such a short space of time, they have come to that conclusion because of their own experiences.
Does that mean its impossible ? absolutely not but it does mean the odds are against it.
Why do you say nonsense? You say at the bottom of your message that it is not impossible! I am a determined person, and if I put my mind to something then I will do everything possible to achieve it, sure 90+% of window cleaners will find it impossible to build a round in a short space of time, but I am in the 10% who will find a way to achieve it!! I've always been like that, back in my School days we took part in a sponsored event, the highest amount of money raised by another pupil was £18, I raised £186 which back in 1980 was not bad for a 11 year old!! ;)
Maybe saying nonsense was a bit strong and I don't doubt for one moment that your not a highly motivated person.
What I'm trying to say is that you could canvass an area tomorrow where a window cleaner has quit and get all his customers.
You could canvass an area tomorrow where everybody has a window cleaner that they're happy with and get none.
For this reason I cant tell you if its possible or impossible to build a round in two months but if I had to bet on it I honestly
would bet on you failing within this time frame.
Most new businesses fail because of a shortage in cash flow, thinking they can succeed in a shorter time frame than actually needed so they end up running out of cash before making enough to keep the business afloat.
That's why I think its bad advice to say its possible to build a business/round from scratch in two months.
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Sorry David will change nonsense to bad advice.
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It's a 'how long is a piece of string' question really. We all have our own experiences which are true accounts of how we fared at the time. I have already posted my experiences on here.
Yes, I believe it is possible to build a run in 2 months, but I would advise that it would need an awful lot of motivation and determination, together with being in the right place at the right time, so unless you hit a window cleaning goldmine straight away, then more likely than not it will take a lot longer, ie 2-3 years or more. As I said, I am 3 years in and still have some way to go.
John
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hey groundhog if you never loose more than 2 or 3 customers a year.either: you're dead cheap and not very busy or then you're the god of window cleaners and I would be happy to pay you if you could show me the ropes
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I really do give up with this forum.
I'll probably just use it as read only for the most part. No wonder most of the decent posters departed years ago. Entering the odd competition sounds fine though.
If someone's experience differs from another person's, it gets labelled "nonsense" or "bad advice" - and I've seen plenty worse descriptions.
There seems to be very little acceptance that people work in different ways according to their wants or needs.
I'm going to up my income.
Up yours !
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I really do give up with this forum.
I'll probably just use it as read only for the most part. No wonder most of the decent posters departed years ago. Entering the odd competition sounds fine though.
If someone's experience differs from another person's, it gets labelled "nonsense" or "bad advice" - and I've seen plenty worse descriptions.
There seems to be very little acceptance that people work in different ways according to their wants or needs.
I'm going to up my income.
Up yours !
I believe its bad advice to tell someone its possible to build a round in two months, that's my opinion and its not a personal
attack on you or anybody else.
I also disagree that most of the decent posters have departed, the only guys who depart this forum are guys who cant
stand somebody disagreeing with their opinions and take it personal.
You also need to remember that most on here aren't wordsmiths and as a result it can be very easy to insult somebody
without intending to do so.
There is some very good advice on this forum and some very good debates on the pros and cons on certain aspects of window cleaning.
Yes some might get a bit heated but that's to be expected when you think there are many different ways to get from A to B
in window cleaning.
A forum full of Churchill dogs all saying O yes to every post wouldn't last to long.
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O yes ;D
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A forum full of Churchill dogs all saying O yes to every post wouldn't last to long.
Amen to that!! :)
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I believe its bad advice to tell someone its possible to build a round in two months
Glad to have found someone I can disagree with without offending them Sean!! I know that building a round in 2 months is possible, I know because I have done it! That's why I have told my friend that it can be done, I have also told him how hard he is going to have to work and how many hours he is going to have to put into it, and everything else he is going to have to do to achieve this. Obviously a round built in 2 months is not going to be the finished product, I first started building my round over 12 years ago, and I'm still looking to improve it every day! But it is without doubt possible to build a half decent round bringing in reasonable money in a very short period of time, if you are prepared to make a lot of sacrifices and work work work!!! You also have to be good with people and give the right impression when talking to potential customers, otherwise you are going to struggle!! I hope that dosn't offend anyone, it is never my intention, I just say it as I see it! :)
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What would you class as a reasonable amont for a newbie who hasnt done window cleaning or canvassing before to build within 2 months though?? And what percent would you expect to drop out?.
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What would you class as a reasonable amont for a newbie who hasnt done window cleaning or canvassing before to build within 2 months though?? And what percent would you expect to drop out?.
My aim would be 150 monthly customers averaging £20 each, which would bring in a wage of £3000 per month. A lot of hard work to get there in 2 months, but definately very achievable!
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150 £10 customers in 2 months is quite an easy target to get as have smashed that many times. 150 £20 customers maybe a little harder but im not in the know as dont target many of those houses as i find areas with all round access are saturated with cleaners nowdays.
Why not just get out there and start knocking and keep us all updated, that way it will keep you motivated and by the end of 2 months you will be 3k up from now.
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150 £10 customers in 2 months is quite an easy target to get as have smashed that many times. 150 £20 customers maybe a little harder but im not in the know as dont target many of those houses as i find areas with all round access are saturated with cleaners nowdays.
Why not just get out there and start knocking and keep us all updated, that way it will keep you motivated and by the end of 2 months you will be 3k up from now.
We are probably in totally different area's Mick, I never take on anything these days below £25, and looking on aworka my average customer pays £40 per clean. My friend is in Surrey, so there are lots of big properties around!
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u can build up a good window cleaning round in 3 months all u have to do is keep knocking on doors all day long
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It's all about attitude. I moved house in March 2012 leaving behind a good round. I picked up any work in any area and wasn't at all picky. I canvassed everyday I wasn't working, late into the evening and after 3 months I only had about £800 worth of work, but enough to live on along with my wife's work (living wage for me). Since then I've canvassed just as often and gradually sold on my starter work, invested in a reach and wash and now I'm only working 2 days a week on amazing work that pays well and are 100% reliable.To be working full time I'd have to still be cleaning the terraces and council houses I started with but as I'm on well paying work now I don't need to. 2 years is a good amount of time for someone who works hard to get some ok work. But if you only want nice houses and well paying work I don't think you can set a time limit. It will take years of your reputation building to get to the point these guys are at
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It's all about attitude. I moved house in March 2012 leaving behind a good round. I picked up any work in any area and wasn't at all picky. I canvassed everyday I wasn't working, late into the evening and after 3 months I only had about £800 worth of work, but enough to live on along with my wife's work (living wage for me). Since then I've canvassed just as often and gradually sold on my starter work, invested in a reach and wash and now I'm only working 2 days a week on amazing work that pays well and are 100% reliable.To be working full time I'd have to still be cleaning the terraces and council houses I started with but as I'm on well paying work now I don't need to. 2 years is a good amount of time for someone who works hard to get some ok work. But if you only want nice houses and well paying work I don't think you can set a time limit. It will take years of your reputation building to get to the point these guys are at
I had a similar start up experience to yourself, got about £800 worth of work in about 3 or 4 months and then it seemed to
dry up.
Like yourself my wife's wages plus being mortgage free helped until I could earn a bit more.
I found that a lot of people who had said no to me later took me on when they had watched me clean other properties.
Plus when my customers got to know me they recommended me to other family members and friends.
I think reputation plays a big part in trying to build a good window cleaning round and that takes a bit of time.
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It's all about attitude. I moved house in March 2012 leaving behind a good round. I picked up any work in any area and wasn't at all picky. I canvassed everyday I wasn't working, late into the evening and after 3 months I only had about £800 worth of work, but enough to live on along with my wife's work (living wage for me). Since then I've canvassed just as often and gradually sold on my starter work, invested in a reach and wash and now I'm only working 2 days a week on amazing work that pays well and are 100% reliable.To be working full time I'd have to still be cleaning the terraces and council houses I started with but as I'm on well paying work now I don't need to. 2 years is a good amount of time for someone who works hard to get some ok work. But if you only want nice houses and well paying work I don't think you can set a time limit. It will take years of your reputation building to get to the point these guys are at
I had a similar start up experience to yourself, got about £800 worth of work in about 3 or 4 months and then it seemed to
dry up.
Like yourself my wife's wages plus being mortgage free helped until I could earn a bit more.
I found that a lot of people who had said no to me later took me on when they had watched me clean other properties.
Plus when my customers got to know me they recommended me to other family members and friends.
I think reputation plays a big part in trying to build a good window cleaning round and that takes a bit of time.
Good points made here. I am 3 years in and am picking up new work and dropping dross all the time. This process will continue until I have my business sorted to my satifaction, which I expect to take several more years.
John
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u can build up a good window cleaning round in 3 months all u have to do is keep knocking on doors all day long
Agreed!