Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mick Kent on August 05, 2014, 02:56:31 pm
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Was doing some canvassing last night replacing the dropouts over the last few months so im not on a loss at all and came across many asking how i did them, i said via wfp and they said they want someone who will do it properly and not just squirt water and leave them wet...
Makes me laugh, it costs thousands to get all set up properly via wfp yet the public still prefere a trady as feel they are getting more for there money!.
Anyone else found this lately?
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Right so I'm prepared to be educated on this one not being a window cleaner myself ;)
I have a trad windy and specifically went that route after getting poor results with a slick 4 man in a van wfp operation.
Takes the trad guy a good hour to clean our house and conservatory = £30 which I'm happy to spend because he takes his time and the windows come up spotless.
I only tried one wfp guy so maybe it was just bad luck?
Can obviously see why wfp makes more sense as a business model ;) but is it really possible to get as good if not better results with wfp?
Lol, preparing for the onslaught!
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Rob ya traitor lol
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I always say Decorators use the same tools, some are good, some are crap.
Now let me splash your windows.
Get with it Rob, (window above the conny) you'll be telling us next you still use windows 95
Nothing wrong with trad, just wfp aint bad in the right hands
Tony
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Their obviously not used to cleaning windows by WFP!
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Lol, good point about the window above the conny, I've never actually watching him do that one (I know he's got some pole gear in the van as well ;))
Yep, I'll take the decorator thing, some are so, so bad it's a joke... We know a brilliant decorator now and I almost don't recommend him to people in case he gets too busy!
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Who cares about whether trad or wfp is superior in the customer's eyes? Seriously! I use WFP and have a fairly large amount of work and have no problems retaining customers.
If you think the bottom line is what the customers think of their windows, then you've got a lot to learn.
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From a customers perspective or not, a window cleaned properly trad will be no different to a window cleaned properly wfp. If anything the window cleaned trad could be considered superior because it is left dry and if its completely clean ( or not ) it is obvious straight away before you have left the property, nobody can really argue with that. ( but I'm sure some smart ars e will )
Wfp is obviously safer though and the hourly rates achieved are ( usually ) higher and thats why I am 95 % wfp.
Very rarely have I had a customer complain about the method used outrightly, not to say though that the few who have cancelled have been less than forthcoming with their true reasons but I couldn't really care less anyway.
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WFP is a totally crap way of cleaning windows but luckily for us most trad guys don't
set the bar too high.
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ive got a few customers who initially werent happy when i said i used wfp to clean their windows.i simply said "do not pay me if your not happy with the results"
result? ;D HAPPY CUSTOMERS!and money paid.they ve never mentioned me using wfp again! ;)
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From a customers perspective or not, a window cleaned properly trad will be no different to a window cleaned properly wfp. If anything the window cleaned trad could be considered superior because it is left dry and if its completely clean ( or not ) it is obvious straight away before you have left the property, nobody can really argue with that. ( but I'm sure some smart ars e will )
Wfp is obviously safer though and the hourly rates achieved are ( usually ) higher and thats why I am 95 % wfp.
Very rarely have I had a customer complain about the method used outrightly, not to say though that the few who have cancelled have been less than forthcoming with their true reasons but I couldn't really care less anyway.
The window might look better left dry but what about all the soap residue left on the glass and in the seals
of the window. Its a fact wfp leaves glass and surrounds cleaner when used properly. ;)
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If you think the bottom line is what the customers think of their windows, then you've got a lot to learn.
Wow! Spot on.
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From a customers perspective or not, a window cleaned properly trad will be no different to a window cleaned properly wfp. If anything the window cleaned trad could be considered superior because it is left dry and if its completely clean ( or not ) it is obvious straight away before you have left the property, nobody can really argue with that. ( but I'm sure some smart ars e will )
Wfp is obviously safer though and the hourly rates achieved are ( usually ) higher and thats why I am 95 % wfp.
Very rarely have I had a customer complain about the method used outrightly, not to say though that the few who have cancelled have been less than forthcoming with their true reasons but I couldn't really care less anyway.
The window might look better left dry but what about all the soap residue left on the glass and in the seals
of the window. Its a fact wfp leaves glass and surrounds cleaner when used properly. ;)
like i said above, theres always one ! ;D
Fact - cleaning windows with wfp leaves windows free of any soap film or residue thus windows stay cleaner for longer without attracting airborn particles or dust requiring them to be cleaned less regularly ( but lets keep that to ourselves shall we ? :D )
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I watched three different trad guys clean windows and not one cleaned a frame
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Who cares about whether trad or wfp is superior in the customer's eyes? Seriously! I use WFP and have a fairly large amount of work and have no problems retaining customers.
If you think the bottom line is what the customers think of their windows, then you've got a lot to learn.
+1
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From a customers perspective or not, a window cleaned properly trad will be no different to a window cleaned properly wfp. If anything the window cleaned trad could be considered superior because it is left dry and if its completely clean ( or not ) it is obvious straight away before you have left the property, nobody can really argue with that. ( but I'm sure some smart ars e will )
Wfp is obviously safer though and the hourly rates achieved are ( usually ) higher and thats why I am 95 % wfp.
Very rarely have I had a customer complain about the method used outrightly, not to say though that the few who have cancelled have been less than forthcoming with their true reasons but I couldn't really care less anyway.
The window might look better left dry but what about all the soap residue left on the glass and in the seals
of the window. Its a fact wfp leaves glass and surrounds cleaner when used properly. ;)
like i said above, theres always one ! ;D
Fact - cleaning windows with wfp leaves windows free of any soap film or residue thus windows stay cleaner for longer without attracting airborn particles or dust requiring them to be cleaned less regularly ( but lets keep that to ourselves shall we ? :D )
;)
This is a simple fact that unfortunately a lot of cleaners don't understand and are unable
to answer the custy when confronted with the you only squirt water at the windy's brigade.
WFP leaves water marks nothing to do with the years of soap sitting in your rubbers.
My understanding is soap was introduced to window cleaning to make the squeegee glyed
over the glass easier and IMO this makes sense. I must admit I do enjoy getting a cust'y telling
me how rubbish WFP is in the early years I lost custy's but now very rare after my speech ;D
I simply say as dazmond says don't pay till your 100% happy ;)
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i just tell them its against the law to use ladders for window cleaning and that they are liable for a £1000 fine if they let someone on there property who does.. i don't get questioned after that
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Right so I'm prepared to be educated on this one not being a window cleaner myself ;)
I have a trad windy and specifically went that route after getting poor results with a slick 4 man in a van wfp operation.
Takes the trad guy a good hour to clean our house and conservatory = £30 which I'm happy to spend because he takes his time and the windows come up spotless.
I only tried one wfp guy so maybe it was just bad luck?
Can obviously see why wfp makes more sense as a business model ;) but is it really possible to get as good if not better results with wfp?
Lol, preparing for the onslaught!
Stick to selling software mate :) .
Anyway, I won't buy your software unless you program it in CP/M. I like people to do things the hard way as it helps me to believe that I've had my money's worth :)
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I'm picking up LOADS of work in my areas from trad guys.
Customers see me working and cleaning all the frames and not walking in tiled roofs.
I've not had a genuine complaint in about 2 years now, and work is coming in by the boat load from recomendations.
In my opinion WFP is superior to trad in the hands of a pro. :)
Every time I pick up a new customer from a trad cleaner and I have to spend ages cleaning all the mildew and soap residue out the seals it reminds me how good WFP is.
👍
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Right so I'm prepared to be educated on this one not being a window cleaner myself Wink
I have a trad windy and specifically went that route after getting poor results with a slick 4 man in a van wfp operation.
Takes the trad guy a good hour to clean our house and conservatory = £30 which I'm happy to spend because he takes his time and the windows come up spotless.
I only tried one wfp guy so maybe it was just bad luck?
Can obviously see why wfp makes more sense as a business model Wink but is it really possible to get as good if not better results with wfp?
Lol, preparing for the onslaught!
Rob,
I think you should "drag & drop" the trad guy and go WFP.
Andy ;)
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i just tell them its against the law to use ladders for window cleaning and that they are liable for a £1000 fine if they let someone on there property who does.. i don't get questioned after that
Would love to quote this one. Not sure if its true. Working above 6 metres on a ladder? Using other methods if possible? Whats law, whats H&S. Sky fitters etc use a ladder, roofers etc
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
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i just tell them its against the law to use ladders for window cleaning and that they are liable for a £1000 fine if they let someone on there property who does.. i don't get questioned after that
Would love to quote this one. Not sure if its true. Working above 36 metres on a ladder? Using other methods if possible? Whats law, whats H&S. Sky fitters etc use a ladder, roofers etc
No mate its not I'm just takingI the pee :D
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
Free CP for life? I'd do 'em.
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
Free CP for life? I'd do 'em.
Well, for as long as you clean my windows!
As I say, I pay my trad guy £30. Think I used to pay the wfp guys £25 (how convenient ;))
Whereabouts are you? Ah... probably can't stretch to petrol money from Lincolnshire!
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
Free CP for life? I'd do 'em.
Well, for as long as you clean my windows!
As I say, I pay my trad guy £30. Think I used to pay the wfp guys £25 (how convenient ;))
Whereabouts are you? Ah... probably can't stretch to petrol money from Lincolnshire!
Lol. I work all over bud.
I'll come and do a free clean next time I'm down your way.
Got family in Haywards Heath too.
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Lol. I work all over bud.
I'll come and do a free clean next time I'm down your way.
Got family in Haywards Heath too.
Nice one, yeah Haywards Heath ain't far give me a shout :)
Would be good to see wfp done properly, I think the other guys were jokers to be honest.
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A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?
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I would go through all your CP accounts and see if you can spot the trad cleaner. (he'll be the one with the mondeo, new bucket once a year and scrims in his business expenses).
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A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?
::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
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A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?
Interesting analogy! Unfortunately most of my custies have enough trouble trying to remember to leave their bl***y gate unlocked. I fear anything more meaningful could be lost. ;)
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
Does your trad guy clean the veluxes? I clean them from the outside with wfp, but I find them virtually impossible to get perfect. You can't get the pressure on them. Mind you, a trad guy can't do them at all from the outside generally.
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Anyone want to take a road trip down to sunny Worthing and show'em how it's done ;D
Free CP account account to whoever can not only reach my veluxes but actually get them squeaky clean (not just knock them about with a long wet pole like the other guy did ;))
Actually I'd probably owe you £5 wouldn't I :-\
Does your trad guy clean the veluxes? I clean them from the outside with wfp, but I find them virtually impossible to get perfect. You can't get the pressure on them. Mind you, a trad guy can't do them at all from the outside generally.
i'd agree with that, it is virtually impossible to get them perfect when you cant get good pressure on them
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Trad guy doesn't touch them, wfp guy could reach them but not get them clean, guess I should just let them into the loft!
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I'm trad and do velux windows. I go up the ladder and use a pole, even detailing the edges. I've never had a complaint about them not being done well enough.
John
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to clean Velux windows properly get up the step ladder pull the window right around and use a damp magic eraser pad to deep clean the glass, it does not matter how dirty the glass is because the pad will just eat through the grime, then just finish off with your microfibers or scrim, turn it back out and do the inside which are usually simple to clean, if the customer is not prepared to pay for this then you know what they can do.
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
I have been trad 17 years also. I give a lot of attention to detail (almost to the point of OCD), so I get excellent results every time. Whenever I have asked questions with regard to changing over, I have always then decided to stick to what I am comfortable with. Were I to change over to wfp, I can imagine using much, much more water than would probably be required, as I would go over and over the glass to be sure that I was cleaning thoroughly, and even then I would not be confident that the glass would be clean enough for me. I appreciate that the financial rewards for using wfp are higher, but then so are the costs to run and maintain the system compared to traditional.
Best wishes,
John
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I've had 3 complaints since going to wfp 2 years ago and non for 18 months.
You can obsess about little marks etc all you want but I the fact is it works well.
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A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?
Not a good comparison as the trad guy would have nice upholstery but dodgy frames. ;)
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones ;D classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.
Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong :o
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.
Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
I have been trad 17 years also. I give a lot of attention to detail (almost to the point of OCD), so I get excellent results every time. Whenever I have asked questions with regard to changing over, I have always then decided to stick to what I am comfortable with. Were I to change over to wfp, I can imagine using much, much more water than would probably be required, as I would go over and over the glass to be sure that I was cleaning thoroughly, and even then I would not be confident that the glass would be clean enough for me. I appreciate that the financial rewards for using wfp are higher, but then so are the costs to run and maintain the system compared to traditional.
Best wishes,
John
Who says the financial rewards are higher ? the same guys who will tell you that in the right hands wfp will do a perfect
job every time.
The same guys who will tell you they are making a fortune hourly, but tend to have a nervous breakdown when they need to
replace a battery.
The same guys who believe its impossible to clean a window frame without a wfp system.
The same guys who believe wfp must do a better job because they took work from a lazy traditional guy who was doing a
crap job.
The same guys who believe that because a customer doesn't complain they are totally happy with their work.
The same guys who couldn't seem to make a living when they where using traditional methods yet we know lots of traditional guys
who are making great money and always have been.
The same guys who will tell that wfp is the best invention since the wheel but will panic and throw a hissy fit if someone dares to say
anything negative about it.
Johnny wfp allows me to clean windows safely from the ground and if you came to me looking for advice that's what I would
tell you.
I'm not saying there aren't people who havent improved their finances since converting to wfp of course there are, you have
Alex Gardiner for one.
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A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?
I tend to use the comparison of washing up in a bowl versus using a dishwashing machine; pros and cons to both methods but when the machine works well, it's usually better. Customers relate more to the washing up analogy too.
If you want to compare apples with oranges, I will compare apples to pears :)
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones ;D classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.
Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong :o
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.
Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?
I used to clean my own window frames using tap water only, they came up perfect every time and no soap residue.
A good traditional window cleaner will only get soap residue along the bottom of the frame which is easily removed
with a damp microfiber.
Maybe its you who needs to learn a little more about window cleaning before making silly comments like this.
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I used to clean all frames and sills when trad and never had a problem.
since going wfp my wage has increased and i aint gonna worry abiout providing for my little one if i cant work cause the ladder went from under my feet, i have experience of this as i had to take 3 months off when i broke my elbow and broke my ribs!That to me is the real benefit.
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I would qualify that topic
Trad is always superior in customers eyes over wfp
Trad is often perceived as superior in customers eyes over wfp
Not always but generally.
I look at it from a completely different perspective whether it's superior or not.
I don't want to go up ladders anymore!!!!
I have k*****ed up one knee by years of 3 storey ladder work.
Who in their right mind would climb a ladder to clean a window when you can do it easily from the ground??
P.
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Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.
So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones ;D classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.
Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong :o
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.
Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?
I used to clean my own window frames using tap water only, they came up perfect every time and no soap residue.
A good traditional window cleaner will only get soap residue along the bottom of the frame which is easily removed
with a damp microfiber.
Maybe its you who needs to learn a little more about window cleaning before making silly comments like this.
So why do you not just use tap water to clean your custys windows?
I was trad for a long time before WFP and still use trad when the job calls for it.
What about the soap residue on the glass? you remove all soap from the window frame with a damp cloth really :o
Your correct I still have learning to do which is why I'm on this forum and facebook and educating
myself as much as possible in regards to window cleaning / business in general its my job.
I haven't said wfp is better than trad for all window cleaning because that would make me really silly ;)
So just to be clear do you believe you leave no soap on glass or frame when trad ?
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I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.
Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.
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I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.
Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.
Why does trad do a better job ??
If anyone can convince me trad is better I will be trading from now on in.
Deep deep down I'm convinced out side glass should be WFP unless rotten frames or flush
window ledges where the water runs down wall onto glass ect.
The reason custy's don't believe in it is in my experience most wc don't and not just
on this forum but in my area there's some good trad cleaners who cant get there heads round WFP.
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I have never used wfp, but I clean some of my customers' windows inside and out (yes I clean the frames every time), so I can see the results from both sides of the glass and the results are very, very good, ie no smears or marks that the customer could point to to say that the windows were not cleaned properly. I get glowing praise from many of my customers. The last complaint I had was well over a year ago, and this proved to be unjustified when I went back to recheck my work.
If wfp can beat that, then that's fine by me. I am not knocking it, neither am I qualified to as I have never tried it, but I am happy to carry on as I am because I don't believe that I could do a better job with it than I am doing now. I am not perfect, I make mistakes, but I do take a huge amount of pride in what I do and always try to do a job that pleases my customers.
John
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Guys, just a thought, but personally from my albeit limited experience as a customer (only tried 1 wfp then 1 trad guy) I was willing to pay more for trad.
Looking back I paid the wfp guy £20 and wasn't happy, but I'm happy to pay the trad guy £30 because he takes his time and does a better job. I'd probably pay £35, heck maybe £40 if he really really laid it on, got up in my loft (it's boarded with a staircase) and swivelled my veluxes to clean them properly.
If the customer's perception (right or wrong) is that trad is the "premium" service I think you could (probably already are?!) capitalise on that by having trad as a "premium" option alongside wfp.
Lol, but what do I know ;)
I don't think it's so much about swish van vs clapped out estate, and more about feeling like you're not getting the "wham bam" treatment, which I most certainly got with the wfp guys I tried.
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Some of 'em like "wham bam" ;)
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Some like the "premium" service.
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And some dont like nuffink at all ;D
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Guys, just a thought, but personally from my albeit limited experience as a customer (only tried 1 wfp then 1 trad guy) I was willing to pay more for trad.
Looking back I paid the wfp guy £20 and wasn't happy, but I'm happy to pay the trad guy £30 because he takes his time and does a better job. I'd probably pay £35, heck maybe £40 if he really really laid it on, got up in my loft (it's boarded with a staircase) and swivelled my veluxes to clean them properly.
If the customer's perception (right or wrong) is that trad is the "premium" service I think you could (probably already are?!) capitalise on that by having trad as a "premium" option alongside wfp.
Lol, but what do I know ;)
I don't think it's so much about swish van vs clapped out estate, and more about feeling like you're not getting the "wham bam" treatment, which I most certainly got with the wfp guys I tried.
Very interesting to get a customer's first hand experience Rob. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Best wishes,
John
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Exactly - options is good.
Think my guy does wfp as well (not sure if his system's all that swanky mind ;)) so I think now I may say to him don't kill yourself trying to clean that window above the conny on a ladder, feel free to use wfp where it makes sense... to be honest I think it's really only the downstairs windows, front door, porch etc that really need the trad treatment, that and the veluxes ;)
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You guys arguing which is better - wfp or trad - lack an understanding of something quite important.
Customer's don't tend to purchase the trade, they pay for the tradesman.
Think about it.
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You guys arguing which is better - wfp or trad - lack an understanding of something quite important.
Customer's don't tend to purchase the trade, they pay for the tradesman.
Think about it.
You're right, couldn't give a monkeys what tools you use.
But it's about the whole "experience" = the tradesman yep, but also the results and the feeling that they actually "care" about them.
I wasn't convinced my (particular) wfp guys did care, it was in and out shake'em all about, to be honest maybe the results were OK, I just didn't like the wham bam.
I guess the point was I was in at the time ;) If I was out it may not have made any odds!
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Personally i think on the glass first floor and above trad will guarantee
results everytime but who wants to risk there lives on a ladder if
you dont have to.
The frames are definately cleaned better by wfp and is the main selling
point of the system,i cant count the amount of times that customers
have remarked on how the trad cleaner never did the frames,because
of this the overall effect of wfp is greater.
So why not combine both methods,my tap water is a little over 30ppm
so i dont ro or di anymore.I wfp windows and have a reach around
on top of the pole when finished i have a unger blue shower squeegee
(for lightnes) on the reach around,simple couple of straight pulls glass
is dry,works really well in winter when water sticks around longer.
The above is a little slower than straight wfp but still quicker than
trad if they were doing a proper job.
With WFT i pick work from crap wfp'ers and trad guys,i get all
the benefits of both methods and none of the negatives ;)
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I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.
Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.
.
Why does trad do a better job ??
If anyone can convince me trad is better I will be trading from now on in.
Deep deep down I'm convinced out side glass should be WFP unless rotten frames or flush
window ledges where the water runs down wall onto glass ect.
The reason custy's don't believe in it is in my experience most wc don't and not just
on this forum but in my area there's some good trad cleaners who cant get there heads round WFP.
No you wont because trad is a lot more dangerous and wfp is working for you.
I'm wfp and wouldn't dream of cleaning windows any other way, could I guarantee better results by cleaning them using
traditional methods of course I could.
There are many reasons why wfp pole doesn't get perfect results every time mostly its to do with frames, also its a lot easier
to miss the odd mark on the glass as its left wet and you aren't as close to the glass when cleaning.
I honestly don't care if traditional methods achieve better results as wfp works for me and my customers
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You guys arguing which is better - wfp or trad - lack an understanding of something quite important.
Customer's don't tend to purchase the trade, they pay for the tradesman.
Think about it.
My customers like me and TRUST me to do the best job possible. Not just the first time but every time...
Trad to full WFP 6 months ago not one complaint but dozens of recommendations to neighbours...
Custies are paying for me to clean their property - the tools I use to do that are down to me..
301 houses WFP
2 Trad (16th century cottages)
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Its not about whats better trad or wfp, its what the customer wants or how they view us. The fact that potential new customers now ask "how will you clean them, with the squirty pole or the propper way" to me is a little annoying as soon as we say wfp they instantly arnt interested and many dont have the time nor want to listen to us tell them how good it is. Its not every one but im hearing it more and more.
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It's perception,
Trad cleaning has been around for 100 plus years or so, WFP around 15 and in comparison hardly known about by joe public.
If a trad guy does a bad job, then you get some one else, if a WFP guy screws up, the system is blamed and leads to a mistrust of water fed pole NOT the crappy operator.
Also, when WFP goes t!ts up it really is awful and really looks bad, trad less so, the odd corner missed, a smear here, a mark there goes unnoticed.
Then you have the established almost Luddite brigade making wild claims that WFP ruins everything from glass, frames, wood and house render, not that WFP people don't counter this with claims against trad cleaners!
Then the customer really does like to think us windies work for peanuts, only earning pennies per hour, slaving away off ladders, and take hours to clean a house, not 20 minutes to earn that same £30 - what they fail to see is water fed pole eliminates wasted time moving ladders, climbing up/down etc.. WFP on the actual glass/frame is not much different.
Finally you get good and bad in both variants of cleaning
Darran
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It's perception,
Trad cleaning has been around for 100 plus years or so, WFP around 15 and in comparison hardly known about by joe public.
If a trad guy does a bad job, then you get some one else, if a WFP guy screws up, the system is blamed and leads to a mistrust of water fed pole NOT the crappy operator.
Also, when WFP goes t!ts up it really is awful and really looks bad, trad less so, the odd corner missed, a smear here, a mark there goes unnoticed.
Then you have the established almost Luddite brigade making wild claims that WFP ruins everything from glass, frames, wood and house render, not that WFP people don't counter this with claims against trad cleaners!
Then the customer really does like to think us windies work for peanuts, only earning pennies per hour, slaving away off ladders, and take hours to clean a house, not 20 minutes to earn that same £30 - what they fail to see is water fed pole eliminates wasted time moving ladders, climbing up/down etc.. WFP on the actual glass/frame is not much different.
Finally you get good and bad in both variants of cleaning
Darran
My dad cleaned windows in the 70s and used chamois & scrim. He only used a blade on shops. What therefore is traditional? I would say the squeegee is a relatively new innovation. What some people don't like is them being left wet or the perception of paying too much for a fast job. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard "that was quick!".
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Lol I got absolutely hounded last week for even suggesting trad is better than wfp on a lot of jobs. The fact is most customers and I say most and not all would prefer a good trad window cleaner to a good wfp cleaner. I think a huge problem is most who slate trad have never done trad properly or r blinkered by claims on here that wfp is superior. I operate using both but only use wfp where I think it does as good or better job than trad or on hard to reach windows. Wfp is another tool that can enhance your business but trad is an absolute must in my opinion to even consider yourself a window cleaner. The I only care about money claims r from people who have no pride in what they do and r why wfp gets a bad name. I have a friend who switched all his work back to trad from wfp who says his customers have never been happier. Also the only complaints I ever get r when using wfp. Twenty seven years window cleaning and I know deep down trad is better even though I wish is wasnt
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Lol I got absolutely hounded last week for even suggesting trad is better than wfp on a lot of jobs. The fact is most customers and I say most and not all would prefer a good trad window cleaner to a good wfp cleaner. I think a huge problem is most who slate trad have never done trad properly or r blinkered by claims on here that wfp is superior. I operate using both but only use wfp where I think it does as good or better job than trad or on hard to reach windows. Wfp is another tool that can enhance your business but trad is an absolute must in my opinion to even consider yourself a window cleaner. The I only care about money claims r from people who have no pride in what they do and r why wfp gets a bad name. I have a friend who switched all his work back to trad from wfp who says his customers have never been happier. Also the only complaints I ever get r when using wfp. Twenty seven years window cleaning and I know deep down trad is better even though I wish is wasnt
Not quite:
Converted 3 wfp jobs of mine back to trad today as never been happy with finish on them wfp. End result thirty minutes quicker and custy happier , win win in my eyes. Sometimes trad is just better and that's a fact.
You said trad was quicker, which is ridiculous.
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Lol the reason trad is quicker sometimes is because rushing wfp is crap , hence people prefer trad . Also is does mention a better finish if your capable of reading it all and not just the bits that suit you.
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Its not about whats better trad or wfp, its what the customer wants or how they view us. The fact that potential new customers now ask "how will you clean them, with the squirty pole or the propper way" to me is a little annoying as soon as we say wfp they instantly arnt interested and many dont have the time nor want to listen to us tell them how good it is. Its not every one but im hearing it more and more.
Hi Mick that's a bit of a tough one. I can only imagine these people have had bad experiences of wfp or gossip from friends.
Round my way most people don't care how you clean them as long as the price is right and you do a good job etc, etc.
I've had a couple that didn't fancy the pole so I went into 'sales mode' and told them I can scrub the frames and get into all the little nooks and crannies that is difficult with a cloth. Especially the tiny gap between the bottom of the window and the sill.
Basically I tell them I do a top job and (like Daz) if they're not happy they don't pay. Never happened.
One more little thought (which may be of help):
Also, (and this may help) I give a little extra sales gimmick.
I say to the custies how good pure water is and "it's great for cleaning the insides and you'll do it in no time, also mirrors etc, no streaks etc, blah blah bit of bullsh*t.
Then I say that if the custy gets a plant sprayer £1.50 from Wilko and a microfibre cloth, I will GIVE THEM some pure water every time I clean so they can do the insides 'easily and with no fuss'.
Mick it works a treat and custies leave their sprayers out now and again and I just top them up.
Nice loyal custies. They f***iing love it!
You can pick sprayers up for pence (in bulk). Why not offer a free indoor cleaning kit to prove how good wfp is! Or some such idea as that?
Just a thought!
Good luck mate.
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hey mick I suggest you should try going door to door selling fish.believe me! You can really make a lot of money
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Lol the reason trad is quicker sometimes is because rushing wfp is crap , hence people prefer trad . Also is does mention a better finish if your capable of reading it all and not just the bits that suit you.
Personally, I get a better finish with WFP. That doesn't mead trad is worse, just that I am better at WFP. Perhaps you just aren't very good at it? ;)
But does it matter which is best though? It is what makes more money. Although I like to do a good job, it is secondary to what I earn. And as long as it is good enough that I gain more customers than I lose I am happy.
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Who cares about whether trad or wfp is superior in the customer's eyes? Seriously! I use WFP and have a fairly large amount of work and have no problems retaining customers.
If you think the bottom line is what the customers think of their windows, then you've got a lot to learn.
it worries me that your a moderator on here tosh when by the sounds of it u couldn't give a crap about your customers and only worry about how much money u earn . When I joined on here I thought it was about gaining advice on how to enhance my wfp techniques alongside my trad skills to provide best service possible. I now get the impression most on here only care about financial gains.
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Who cares about whether trad or wfp is superior in the customer's eyes? Seriously! I use WFP and have a fairly large amount of work and have no problems retaining customers.
If you think the bottom line is what the customers think of their windows, then you've got a lot to learn.
it worries me that your a moderator on here tosh when by the sounds of it u couldn't give a crap about your customers and only worry about how much money u earn . When I joined on here I thought it was about gaining advice on how to enhance my wfp techniques alongside my trad skills to provide best service possible. I now get the impression most on here only care about financial gains.
There's balance to be had. But ultimately, it's all about the money.
In my experience, the OCD cleaners will earn less than a splash & dasher.
But if the customers' happy the splas & dasher is in front.
In fact, if the splash & dasher is more personable the customer might prefer a worse job.
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Lol the reason trad is quicker sometimes is because rushing wfp is crap , hence people prefer trad . Also is does mention a better finish if your capable of reading it all and not just the bits that suit you.
Personally, I get a better finish with WFP. That doesn't mead trad is worse, just that I am better at WFP. Perhaps you just aren't very good at it? ;)
But does it matter which is best though? It is what makes more money. Although I like to do a good job, it is secondary to what I earn. And as long as it is good enough that I gain more customers than I lose I am happy.
I agree that where wfp is good it leaves a great finish . The fact is though a good trad window cleaner can leave a good finish on any window. Sadly wfp does not leave a good finish on all windows. I wouldn't be without my wfp system it has opened quite a few doors for me but I also have lots of very well priced trad that I would never convert to wfp. For example I had twenty bungalows today that r simply much easier to clean trad and quite a few houses with large flat roofs that would have entailed dragging hoses to when easier to just trad. Add to that lots of old wooden framed houses and the end result is the pole came out twice today for two skylights on one job and for some three storey windows on a large sixty pound house. The guy who worked for me today has been working for a wfp only guy two days a week and said it's almost embarrassing dragging hoses around bungalows when he could of trad cleaned em in half of time. Each for their own but to me wfp is another tool to enhance your business .
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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If you want to dick around tradding houses in the belief that it's what you need to do and that all your custies are looking at you with a nice warm contented glow happy that your using dirty water to clean their windows then go for it.
I'd sooner be home much earlier with zero complaints knowing my windows are spot on ;D
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i think where trad is superior is on first time cleans. where PVC frames are concerned.
was trad for twenty years moved over to WFP around a year ago because of the ol knees. did a new customer only today and the frames were really bad, wasnt happy with the results with just pure water so sprayed some virosol on my brush and that got most of the muck off but there was still some staining especially on the sills which no way would have come off with brush, had to resort to virosol, non scratch scourers and elbow grease.
so again on 1st time cleans i do like to get up close n personal and clean the frames by hand where possible, after that WFP all the way.
tony
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Guys, just a thought, but personally from my albeit limited experience as a customer (only tried 1 wfp then 1 trad guy) I was willing to pay more for trad.
Looking back I paid the wfp guy £20 and wasn't happy, but I'm happy to pay the trad guy £30 because he takes his time and does a better job. I'd probably pay £35, heck maybe £40 if he really really laid it on, got up in my loft (it's boarded with a staircase) and swivelled my veluxes to clean them properly.
If the customer's perception (right or wrong) is that trad is the "premium" service I think you could (probably already are?!) capitalise on that by having trad as a "premium" option alongside wfp.
Lol, but what do I know ;)
I don't think it's so much about swish van vs clapped out estate, and more about feeling like you're not getting the "wham bam" treatment, which I most certainly got with the wfp guys I tried.
It would be a bit like your customer telling you to program in raw machine code (or assembler) because they don't like newer languages as the files use more disk space - and expecting you to only charge slightly more.
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Its not about whats better trad or wfp, its what the customer wants or how they view us. The fact that potential new customers now ask "how will you clean them, with the squirty pole or the propper way" to me is a little annoying as soon as we say wfp they instantly arnt interested and many dont have the time nor want to listen to us tell them how good it is. Its not every one but im hearing it more and more.
The view I take Mick is that if they have so little concern for my safety, they're not the sort of person I would be wanting to work for anyway.
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The name of the post kind of sums it up really . And would u buy anything just because the shop assistant preferred it. Probably not in most cases. And just to clear things up I do like wfp on lots of my jobs , but others are just easier and better trad. Personally I like being flexible and I'm not going to turn good work down just because they want it done trad.
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Each to their own but sounds like you lack confidence in WFP
Maybe I'd take no notice of some spotty youth in tesco when choosing a toaster,
But yes, when buying high end electrical items or digital cameras I go to a specialist retailer and seek advice.
Darran
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Each to their own but sounds like you lack confidence in WFP
Maybe I'd take no notice of some spotty youth in tesco when choosing a toaster,
But yes, when buying high end electrical items or digital cameras I go to a specialist retailer and seek advice.
Darran
lol window cleaning is hardly high end. I don't think many people need advice on what cleans there windows best , generally they just look.
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I was at a custies once when his son turned up and said he'd recently sacked his wfp WC. I asked why and he said because he was there 18mins for £30. I asked him if his windows were clean though and he said well yes. Customers - you'll never work them all out.
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Each to their own but sounds like you lack confidence in WFP
Maybe I'd take no notice of some spotty youth in tesco when choosing a toaster,
But yes, when buying high end electrical items or digital cameras I go to a specialist retailer and seek advice.
Darran
lol window cleaning is hardly high end. I don't think many people need advice on what cleans there windows best , generally they just look.
You spend enough time trying to tell us. ;D
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I think what it comes down in some customers eyes is that they think of a window cleaner as using a mop and squeegee to clean their windows.
To those customers, whether or not it does a better job than wfp is irrelevant.
To other customers, who have had experience of slap and dash wfp windies, it's no wonder they prefer trad.
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At the end of the day we all have our own opinions . To be honest I genuinely think both methods have their uses. It just gets my back up a bit when people continuously slate trad on here. Everyone's work requires an approach that suits them and their customers whether that be wfp or trad. Yes I do lack confidence with wfp on some jobs the same as I lack confidence with trad on others , which is why I implement which ever technique I think is best on certain jobs. Anyway I think I've made my point and I totally respect other peoples views on the subject. Good luck everyone
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At the end of the day we all have our own opinions . To be honest I genuinely think both methods have their uses. It just gets my back up a bit when people continuously slate trad on here. Everyone's work requires an approach that suits them and their customers whether that be wfp or trad. Yes I do lack confidence with wfp on some jobs the same as I lack confidence with trad on others , which is why I implement which ever technique I think is best on certain jobs. Anyway I think I've made my point and I totally respect other peoples views on the subject. Good luck everyone
What kind of WFP equipment do you have mate?
Only reason I ask is because majority of people I find who try WFP but struggle to get on with it are using a backpack and barrel set up, this then means they try to save water by using a very low flow rate and they get poor results. That and they also use a pole like a bendy fibrglass whip and struggle to get accuracy on the glass.
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At the end of the day we all have our own opinions . To be honest I genuinely think both methods have their uses. It just gets my back up a bit when people continuously slate trad on here. Everyone's work requires an approach that suits them and their customers whether that be wfp or trad. Yes I do lack confidence with wfp on some jobs the same as I lack confidence with trad on others , which is why I implement which ever technique I think is best on certain jobs. Anyway I think I've made my point and I totally respect other peoples views on the subject. Good luck everyone
What kind of WFP equipment do you have mate?
Only reason I ask is because majority of people I find who try WFP but struggle to get on with it are using a backpack and barrel set up, this then means they try to save water by using a very low flow rate and they get poor results. That and they also use a pole like a bendy fibrglass whip and struggle to get accuracy on the glass.
The majority of people who struggle with WFP do so because they are unfortunate to live and work in an area where they have a lot
of problem frames.
I have properties where its impossible to do a bad job with wfp I used to have properties where no matter what I tried they
never came up perfect, dirty runs everywhere
My choice was to trad them or dump and replace with more wfp acceptable properties, I decided on the second option because I was
slow at traditional cleaning and didn't want to work from a ladder.
J trimms I fully understand where your coming from.
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At the end of the day we all have our own opinions . To be honest I genuinely think both methods have their uses. It just gets my back up a bit when people continuously slate trad on here. Everyone's work requires an approach that suits them and their customers whether that be wfp or trad. Yes I do lack confidence with wfp on some jobs the same as I lack confidence with trad on others , which is why I implement which ever technique I think is best on certain jobs. Anyway I think I've made my point and I totally respect other peoples views on the subject. Good luck everyone
What kind of WFP equipment do you have mate?
Only reason I ask is because majority of people I find who try WFP but struggle to get on with it are using a backpack and barrel set up, this then means they try to save water by using a very low flow rate and they get poor results. That and they also use a pole like a bendy fibrglass whip and struggle to get accuracy on the glass.
So what is your explanation for his lack in confidence in trad on certain jobs
I think the chap was trying to say that he uses whichever method suits
the occasion :)
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The real difference between trad and wfp-apart from customers not liking change- is the pole. It's easier to clean by hand a lot of the time.
But it's also more dangerous and slower.
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This whole trad vs WFP thing to me is like the whole hand tools, power tools argument. Each method has its pros and cons. Its up to us as skilled professionals to decide whether a job is suited to whichever method we choose to use and also take into consideration our own skill and expertise to deliver the best result.
Phil
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Phil, as mr timms has stated were not professional we're just window cleaners
Hey ho
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hey mick I suggest you should try going door to door selling fish.believe me! You can really make a lot of money
Ahh, but will the fish still be wet?
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I would go through all your CP accounts and see if you can spot the trad cleaner. (he'll be the one with the mondeo, new bucket once a year and scrims in his business expenses).
and not be wasting gallons of water and paying for electric and resin etc to go to work
people moan about us traddys and h&s but what if the eco warriors knew how much water you guys waste in production and doing the job compared to my couple of buckets full
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I would go through all your CP accounts and see if you can spot the trad cleaner. (he'll be the one with the mondeo, new bucket once a year and scrims in his business expenses).
and not be wasting gallons of water and paying for electric and resin etc to go to work
people moan about us traddys and h&s but what if the eco warriors knew how much water you guys waste in production and doing the job compared to my couple of buckets full
Not a single drop of mine is wasted.
All the 'waste' goes on my lawns.
#BestLawnOnTheStreet. ;D
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Seriously I have been trad for 23 years but recently tried a bit of stick waggling
now I have a backpack set up for awkward windows and can see the benefits of both
tradding isn't really that slow if you are experienced and some jobs were made for tradding but wfp can save you breaking your neck on some dodgy jobs
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the results the same! clean windows, happy customers and a healthy bank balance!
I for one am happy doing either but am more happy with my feet on the floor!
wfp cleans the frames up much better and customers windows stay cleaner for a bit longer between cleans.
wfp is responsible for a massive amount of new wc's in the last 10 yrs due to not being put off regards ladders etc.
for a solo trader its a lot safer with wfp - eg fall off a ladder in a back garden and crack your head on the floor, you could be there all day on the floor.
commercial wise - a tonne of sites will not even let ladders on site
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I would go through all your CP accounts and see if you can spot the trad cleaner. (he'll be the one with the mondeo, new bucket once a year and scrims in his business expenses).
and not be wasting gallons of water and paying for electric and resin etc to go to work
people moan about us traddys and h&s but what if the eco warriors knew how much water you guys waste in production and doing the job compared to my couple of buckets full
Yip. The world is definitely running out if water. Better not run your bath for too long either! Or only have one cuppa a day.
And yet there is EXACTLY the same amount of water on the earth than there was 1000 years ago. What kind of witchcraft is this?????
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;D
I would go through all your CP accounts and see if you can spot the trad cleaner. (he'll be the one with the mondeo, new bucket once a year and scrims in his business expenses).
and not be wasting gallons of water and paying for electric and resin etc to go to work
people moan about us traddys and h&s but what if the eco warriors knew how much water you guys waste in production and doing the job compared to my couple of buckets full
Yip. The world is definitely running out if water. Better not run your bath for too long either! Or only have one cuppa a day.
And yet there is EXACTLY the same amount of water on the earth than there was 1000 years ago. What kind of witchcraft is this?????
;D
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I think both have their place and don't understand some wfp guys who seem to have it in for us tradders
did the guys with cloths have it in for us when they invented squeegees?
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Good luck on here with the pole pushers david they dont like trad because most of them cant do it.
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Good luck on here with the pole pushers david they dont like trad because most of them cant do it.
Yeah cos trads just like so hard to pick up ::)roll
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Good luck on here with the pole pushers david they dont like trad because most of them cant do it.
Took me a week to perfect using a blade. Ten years of WFP and I'm still learning.
Which is harder you say?
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Good luck on here with the pole pushers david they dont like trad because most of them cant do it.
Yeah cos trads just like so hard to pick up ::)roll
Lol well funny but also so true! Its not rocket science wfp or trad to learn, after all its simply cleaning a window. My daughter could do both methods when she was 7 so anyone with a few brain cells can pick it up pretty quick :-)
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Good luck on here with the pole pushers david they dont like trad because most of them cant do it.
Yeah cos trads just like so hard to pick up ::)roll
Lol well funny but also so true! Its not rocket science wfp or trad to learn, after all its simply cleaning a window. My daughter could do both methods when she was 7 so anyone with a few brain cells can pick it up pretty quick :-)
That rules most of us out though Mick. ;D
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I joined this forum to chat and help people like I do on a proper forum where they don't all act like kids (windowcleaningforum)
It seems on here everyone just wants to have a pop and act like they are still in the playground
good luck I'm off
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I joined this forum to chat and help people like I do on a proper forum where they don't all act like kids (windowcleaningforum)
It seems on here everyone just wants to have a pop and act like they are still in the playground
good luck I'm off
Bye bye ;D
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another spit the dummy been weeded out ;D
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The usual dross about who's willy is bigger than all the others ::)roll Can't be bothered reading all this. It's all been said before, usually on a monthly basis. Concentrate of how to get enough work, and not about who's really clever and who uses what lads.
If anyone feels they need to educate other windies about what tools to use, open your own forum, and tell everyone how clever you are on there.
After a while on here, you get to read all the fantastic info from "experts", then later, you can help these "experts" with canvassing tips, and how to actually earn money.
One point needs making. If an area has 5 windies, and 4 are WFP, the trad guy will never have a problem getting work. Think about that.
Off to work now. Back later.
@ Gary, ;D
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The usual dross about who's willy is bigger than all the others ::)roll Can't be bothered reading all this. It's all been said before, usually on a monthly basis. Concentrate of how to get enough work, and not about who's really clever and who uses what lads.
If anyone feels they need to educate other windies about what tools to use, open your own forum, and tell everyone how clever you are on there.
After a while on here, you get to read all the fantastic info from "experts", then later, you can help these "experts" with canvassing tips, and how to actually earn money.
One point needs making. If an area has 5 windies, and 4 are WFP, the trad guy will never have a problem getting work. Think about that.
Off to work now. Back later.
@ Gary, ;D
Well said Cozy.
John
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One point needs making. If an area has 5 windies, and 4 are WFP, the trad guy will never have a problem getting work. Think about that.
I think you make the mistake of thinking people really care.
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You can't educate pork and everyone knows tradders are thicker than thick cut bacon.
Why else would they carry on like they do?
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Ever use punctuation Einstein? ;D ;D You call others thick? ;D ;D ;D PMSL
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1407961824_bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb.jpg)
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Let me guess...........
100% trad are you cozy?
;D
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Yes, and I've got 5 years to go till I pack it all in mate. Looked at WFP, and it's next to useless here in ze Fatherland. Ladders on domestics on German domestics are hardly needed. All windows open inwards, and are cleaned both sides, on appointment.
We clean another 200 plus Brit/MOD custies on a 6 weekly basis too, but they are only possible using trolly or back pack, as most are terraced.
So, yes I'm trad, and I clean inside and out, because I can do both. Where-as, some people claim to be tradesmen and windies, but can't clean insides.
Like a plumber who can only fit 1/4 pipes in straight lines, or bricklayers that can't do rightangle corners.
The arrogance of a windy, that can't clean insides without a Kärcher housewives tool is really funny to me. To assume all tradders are thick and skint, just shows how far some dense people are up their own backsides mate. There are, thankfully, only a few on here. They, and the rest of us know who they are. ;D
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A window cleaner a tradesman come on lets not get carried
away ;D
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A window cleaner a tradesman come on lets not get carried
away ;D
:D
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It was an example Gary, behave. ;D
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Ever use punctuation Einstein? ;D ;D You call others thick? ;D ;D ;D PMSL
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1407961824_bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb.jpg)
Let's face it if I was bright I wouldn't be wiping other folks windows.
The bright ones of us make lots of money like Archer ;D
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Let me guess...........
100% trad are you cozy?
;D
I am 100% trad. Seriously, and with all due respect, please tell me why you and DG Cleaning seem to have a problem with this.
Many thanks,
John
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I agree DG. Archer is a very successful windy. He's also a spudheaded morris dancing bike seat sniffer who can't control himself.
He's not been on here for quite a while though. I really miss him. :(
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Let me guess...........
100% trad are you cozy?
;D
I am 100% trad. Seriously, and with all due respect, please tell me why you and DG Cleaning seem to have a problem with this.
Many thanks,
John
Absoloutely no problem at all with trad john. I started off trad and I still do a few days a month totally trad with the good old ladders.
It just always seems that the people who are always bigging up trad and showing the downsides of WFP etc are 100% trad.
Surely it would be better if you did both then you could give a fair review of both methods and still choose whichever method you preferred to do the job?
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Let me guess...........
100% trad are you cozy?
;D
I am 100% trad. Seriously, and with all due respect, please tell me why you and DG Cleaning seem to have a problem with this.
Many thanks,
John
Absoloutely no problem at all with trad john. I started off trad and I still do a few days a month totally trad with the good old ladders.
It just always seems that the people who are always bigging up trad and showing the downsides of WFP etc are 100% trad.
Surely it would be better if you did both then you could give a fair review of both methods and still choose whichever method you preferred to do the job?
If you look long enough on here, you'll see it's the other way round mate. WFPers want to show how clever they are because they have to educate their custies about how ladders are illegal and soap leaves huge blue stripes on their windows, and this kills custies pets blah blah blah. So some of them want trad banned, so they don't have the disadvantage of granny Jones thinking they are getting money for waving a pole with a garden hose about and getting paid for it.
All these misconceptions from Joe public, stand in the way of some WFPers. Not all, but some of these people got into window cleaning directly with WFP. What happens is, some people get stuck in a job they hate, or lose their job. So they look at their options, and think, "I've heard there's money in window cleaning".
All they need is a mop and squeegie, a head for heights, a basic ability to use both hands, and little fear of rejection so they can knock doors. HOWEVER, a lot of these people, have a basic fear of contact with the public, little or no hand - eye co-ordination, and maybe even a fear of heights. Great start eh?
So they go WFP and pay someone with bottle like Wizz or Mick Kent to do the contact and rejection stuff, then come on here and gob off about how good they are, and how thick the old school tradders are.
Later on, they come on here gobbing off about the summer brigade nicking their custies, and how to get more work. While at the same time spouting off about how they have 4 holidays a month in St Moritz and are thinking about expanding to setting an apprentice on. All happening while sitting on here all day, while the rest of us are putting in at least 4 half days a week to earn what we need. If you look closely, you'll see most dumb tradders are home by mid day to early afternoon. and take time to read the dross on here, while having a good laugh.
After a while on CIU, having read all this cr@p for a couple of years, you end up posting nearly exclusively on the chat section of the forum. ;D
HTH
Added later. If I was working in sunny UK, in all honesty, I'd be at least 90% WFP. You have really awkward windows that are above sloping rooves etc, and many other hard to get at windows. The access can be poor, but in your situation, I understand the safety aspects, and on that alone, WFP is miles ahead of trad IMO.
It's the attitude of window CLEANERS that makes the most trouble. Note the word cleaners. We're just cleaners, so it's not life and death lads. ::)roll
P.S. WFPers cant fight ;D
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Cosy I couldn't agree with you more, and that's from somebody who's a window cleaner first and a wfp'er
second.
By the way we don't need to know how to fight, we just need to be able to crack a pole over a persons head
before they get too close. ;D
A Brodex alloy would be the recommended choice for this.
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I do both methods, wfp tops and trad most bottoms because i like the finish of trad better but dont like going up and down ladders for tops so for me its a happy middle! however if trad was so superior amongst window cleaners then why dont we get any wfp guys changing to trad???.
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Don't know Mick, but a few on here have, and posted about it. They got slagged off, but ................
It's no good saying that customers don't care either. It's the comments and attitude to WFP from custies, that causes some WFPers coming on forums telling tradders that WFP is the future and safer etc.
They need to convince the public with results, not other windies. It takes time I suppose.
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Agreed, we all know both methods works, all the customer see's with a wfp guy is a squirt of water and left to dry where as with trad they see them soap, clear and dry.
Thinking about it if i didnt know anything about wfp and someone with a long pole squirted water on my windows and then asked for a tenner id tell him where to go lol.. ;D
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I agree DG. Archer is a very successful windy. He's also a spudheaded morris dancing bike seat sniffer who can't control himself.
He's not been on here for quite a while though. I really miss him. :(
;D
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I know a few who have went back to traditional methods but if they came on here they would be
accused of being too thick to master the method.
I know one guy who's business nearly went under because of converting to the pole, nothing to do with his
inability to master the method his round was full of problem windows.
Imagine the abuse he would have got if he had posted his experiences on here.
Again Cozy your spot on.
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I agree with Cozy and SeanK. By the way, please look through any previous posts of mine and nowhere will you see that I have ever slagged off wfp. It has mostly been wfp'ers belittling us old schoolers for keeping the industry in the dark ages, as they see it, and in some cases blatantly lying that ladders are banned etc. I have asked serious questions in the past concerning the costs of setting up and maintenance of converting to wfp, following which I have decided to remain trad.
I agree with those who say that both methods work. I simply have chosen to stay as I am because I want to keep things simple, so I don't believe that wfp is for me (no disrespect to you wfp guys)..
John
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I agree with Cozy and SeanK. By the way, please look through any previous posts of mine and nowhere will you see that I have ever slagged off wfp. It has mostly been wfp'ers belittling us old schoolers for keeping the industry in the dark ages, as they see it, and in some cases blatantly lying that ladders are banned etc. I have asked serious questions in the past concerning the costs of setting up and maintenance of converting to wfp, following which I have decided to remain trad.
I agree with those who say that both methods work. I simply have chosen to stay as I am because I want to keep things simple, so I don't believe that wfp is for me (no disrespect to you wfp guys)..
John
Wfp is much simpler than many on here would have you believe.
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I don't think anybody on here is questioning the simplicity of using a WFP system its
the results that most people question.
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I agree with Cozy and SeanK. By the way, please look through any previous posts of mine and nowhere will you see that I have ever slagged off wfp. It has mostly been wfp'ers belittling us old schoolers for keeping the industry in the dark ages, as they see it, and in some cases blatantly lying that ladders are banned etc. I have asked serious questions in the past concerning the costs of setting up and maintenance of converting to wfp, following which I have decided to remain trad.
I agree with those who say that both methods work. I simply have chosen to stay as I am because I want to keep things simple, so I don't believe that wfp is for me (no disrespect to you wfp guys)..
John
Wfp is much simpler than many on here would have you believe.
Trad is simple enough for me (or vice versa). ;)
John
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Yes, and I've got 5 years to go till I pack it all in mate. Looked at WFP, and it's next to useless here in ze Fatherland. Ladders on domestics on German domestics are hardly needed. All windows open inwards, and are cleaned both sides, on appointment.
We clean another 200 plus Brit/MOD custies on a 6 weekly basis too, but they are only possible using trolly or back pack, as most are terraced.
So, yes I'm trad, and I clean inside and out, because I can do both. Where-as, some people claim to be tradesmen and windies, but can't clean insides.
Like a plumber who can only fit 1/4 pipes in straight lines, or bricklayers that can't do rightangle corners.
The arrogance of a windy, that can't clean insides without a Kärcher housewives tool is really funny to me. To assume all tradders are thick and skint, just shows how far some dense people are up their own backsides mate. There are, thankfully, only a few on here. They, and the rest of us know who they are. ;D
Spot on. I'm a hybrid window cleaner. These Johnny come lately WFP drongos with their posh vans and 10 grand Ionics systems do my lemon. Ooh look at me with a big frig off tank in the back of my brand new van. Feck orf ya tw@ts.
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Yes, and I've got 5 years to go till I pack it all in mate. Looked at WFP, and it's next to useless here in ze Fatherland. Ladders on domestics on German domestics are hardly needed. All windows open inwards, and are cleaned both sides, on appointment.
We clean another 200 plus Brit/MOD custies on a 6 weekly basis too, but they are only possible using trolly or back pack, as most are terraced.
So, yes I'm trad, and I clean inside and out, because I can do both. Where-as, some people claim to be tradesmen and windies, but can't clean insides.
Like a plumber who can only fit 1/4 pipes in straight lines, or bricklayers that can't do rightangle corners.
The arrogance of a windy, that can't clean insides without a Kärcher housewives tool is really funny to me. To assume all tradders are thick and skint, just shows how far some dense people are up their own backsides mate. There are, thankfully, only a few on here. They, and the rest of us know who they are. ;D
Spot on. I'm a hybrid window cleaner. These Johnny come lately WFP drongos with their posh vans and 10 grand Ionics systems do my lemon. Ooh look at me with a big frig off tank in the back of my brand new van. Feck orf ya tw@ts.
Jealousy is a terrible thing.
😀
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I think your onto something there.
:)
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
Tom read the posts, nobody is saying that WFP isn't any good but as a method it has its pros and cons.
Iv built an excellent round using WFP methods and wouldn't change, but I wouldn't come on here and
pretend that its a magic wand that works on every window every time.
Its seems to be on this forum your either 100% for wfp or 100% against it.
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Soooo, us people who've mastered the technique of both WFP and Trad must be the 'Elite' of window cleaners ;)
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Who cares about how windows are cleaned?
Clean them with the inside of a greasy flat cap if you want but make sure you do it for reliable customers who are happy with the job you do and who pay you. That's the big secret of this business, the customers, not the method.
Vin
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1408172293_20140703_122035.jpg)
This is my van so i can afford wfp and i have gardiner poles.
Most of my work is restaurants in west end of London and 95% of it is trad 40Olt lasts me 4 to 5 weeks.
In london wfp is good for some work but if you want to work you have to be a good trad window cleaner.
If you was doing domestic work in london you would HAVE to do insides no access to back of house so if you was doing insides just open window and clean it from inside it takes longer but a 3 story house gos about £50 so 4 houses a day is £200.If i was cleaning houses for £6 outsides only with access to back then wfp is great.But in london you have to be a good trad window cleaner or you wolud not work.
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I think your onto something there.
:)
I was up and running for £500 van mount
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1408172293_20140703_122035.jpg)
This is my van so i can afford wfp and i have gardiner poles.
Most of my work is restaurants in west end of London and 95% of it is trad 40Olt lasts me 4 to 5 weeks.
In london wfp is good for some work but if you want to work you have to be a good trad window cleaner.
If you was doing domestic work in london you would HAVE to do insides no access to back of house so if you was doing insides just open window and clean it from inside it takes longer but a 3 story house gos about £50 so 4 houses a day is £200.If i was cleaning houses for £6 outsides only with access to back then wfp is great.But in london you have to be a good trad window cleaner or you wolud not work.
Yes mate, agree there about trad, i dont do many london commercials but do have a lot of domestic that i call my elite work
Im getting £40/50 fronts and £80/100 full houses and double for insides which seem every time for some of them between sw1 and sw3 postcodes mainly between pimlico and chelsea.
They dont care how much just as long as you do them and do them ultra good which means trad on all the lower downstairs and basement windows and door to give it the personal touch when finished and in summer by the time you have tradded the lower the tops have all dried and the customer is overly happy and recomends you to others in the area, a proper knock on effect around there if you can get in there.
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I think your onto something there.
:)
I was up and running for £500 van mount
Your forgetting the key part of that statement.......the van. 👍
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I happily concede that I can't afford it. I've looked into it, and decided that I don't need or want to earn stupidly high money just to pay for a system and new van which, on the work I have, isn't necessary. My aim is to keep it as simple as possible, with minimal overheads for maximum profit. Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I happily concede that I can't afford it. I've looked into it, and decided that I don't need or want to earn stupidly high money just to pay for a system and new van which, on the work I have, isn't necessary. My aim is to keep it as simple as possible, with minimal overheads for maximum profit. Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
My quote was being a bit facetious to the snobs out there. Your opinion is honest, refreshing and bs free.
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Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
You won't be providing any of that to your family if you fall off the ladder and break your neck...
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Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
You won't be providing any of that to your family if you fall off the ladder and break your neck...
Life is full of 'what ifs'. Ladders are safe enough. It's improper use of them that causes accidents imho.
John
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Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
You won't be providing any of that to your family if you fall off the ladder and break your neck...
Life is full of 'what ifs'. Ladders are safe enough. It's improper use of them that causes accidents imho.
John
To be fair I'm sure that's what everyone says when they think of how safe ladders are.
Doesn't cut down the fact accidents happen and more so when your up and down a ladder 60 times a day. It only takes one fall.
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johnny i spend an extra £3,000 a year in expenses on WFP(roughly) than when i was trad but this year ill earn an extra £16,000-£17,000 on top of my previous earnings pre WFP.go figure.
im much safer and actually work shorter days "on the glass" than when i was on the ladders.i also have a week off most months or at least 3 or 4 days off before my next months work.
i feel less tired after my working day and enjoy my work a bit more.also working in most wet weather is not a problem with wfp.
previously my expenses were around £2,000 a year 100% trad so i spend around £5,000 overall over the course of a year WFP.
I do trad some work by the way but 90% is WFP these days.
absolutely the best move ive ever made in window cleaning.its such a good tool for our trade.
also i provide a much better thorough service with wfp which in turn has led to much more better paying work coming my way without even trying.nearly all new work has come from recommendations,word of mouth and being seen out and about cleaning.
regards
dazmond
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Said profit keeps a roof over my family's heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs. I'm happy with that. :)
John
You won't be providing any of that to your family if you fall off the ladder and break your neck...
Life is full of 'what ifs'. Ladders are safe enough. It's improper use of them that causes accidents imho.
John
To be fair I'm sure that's what everyone says when they think of how safe ladders are.
Doesn't cut down the fact accidents happen and more so when your up and down a ladder 60 times a day. It only takes one fall.
I'm 52 years old, been up and down the ladders for the last 17 years. Compare: I've been driving for 35 years. It only takes one accident in either situation, or indeed any other while going about our daily lives. Just because I use ladders every day doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the risks that incorrect use of them carries.
John
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Each to their own johnny. Each to their own. As long as your happy.
:)
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johnny i spend an extra £3,000 a year in expenses on WFP(roughly) than when i was trad but this year ill earn an extra £16,000-£17,000 on top of my previous earnings pre WFP.go figure.
im much safer and actually work shorter days "on the glass" than when i was on the ladders.i also have a week off most months or at least 3 or 4 days off before my next months work.
i feel less tired after my working day and enjoy my work a bit more.also working in most wet weather is not a problem with wfp.
previously my expenses were around £2,000 a year 100% trad so i spend around £5,000 overall over the course of a year WFP.
I do trad some work by the way but 90% is WFP these days.
absolutely the best move ive ever made in window cleaning.its such a good tool for our trade.
also i provide a much better thorough service with wfp which in turn has led to much more better paying work coming my way without even trying.nearly all new work has come from recommendations,word of mouth and being seen out and about cleaning.
regards
dazmond
Hi Dazmond, I always read your posts with interest, and remember when you first went wfp. You have done extremely well and worked very hard, and I have much respect and admiration for what you have achieved, and for the encouragement you have given and advice you have generously shared on this forum..
I am, however, not so ambitious or driven as you, and am happy to carry on the way I am. I love what I do, and the way that I do it, and am not motivated to make big money. I make enough to support my family, and as long as I can continue to do this, I am happy. In just a very few years time, my kids will no longer be dependent on me, so I may even be able to semi-retire!
Best wishes, and keep up the good work,
John
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Each to their own johnny. Each to their own. As long as your happy.
:)
Exactly Jonny. :)
Best wishes,
John
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Sadly Wfp is dead cheap to get setup with nowdays, however the cheap setups and cheap equipment and some of the bodge job diy setups that may not be as good as a proffesional fitted system with 4040ro etc may add to the reason with so many unhappy customers that would rather a trad cleaner do them?
I untill recently worked upto 030ppm and assumed was fine as had minimal quality complaints so thought was fine untill i used it on my car where it spotted like mad when dried which confused me however at 000ppm not a mark/streak or spot on her so now i only work at 000ppm and i have customers saying to me how much happier they are and how they are looking better etc and i do think the guys who say anything under 30ppm or even 10ppm are risking losing customers just as i was as the finished article is what matters! We have all had customers say there excuses as to why they cancal so how do we know they simply arnt just being nice saying husband will do it from now on or son wants to do it or lost job ect ect..when realy they are getting rid of us for a rubbish poor job??, how many wait untill the house dries??? I bet none of us. Wfp done properly with decent equipment and 000ppm pure water shouldnt get any problems or minimal probs at least compared to a cheap setup using water that isnt 000ppm pure.
Just like with trad, a decent rubber glydes over the glass with ease over a cheap 1 that streaks to buggery and judders over the glass. Or a proper soaped up applicator against a lightly soaped applicator all affect how the squeegie cleans the glass.
Bottom line is that customers do prefere a trad clean over a wfp clean, why should they care for safety ??they want there windows gleaming clean which trad always does but wfp on some windows simply doesnt.
You cant win them all by being tunnel vissioned! the guys who offer both methods are onto a win win as will always be able to keep there customers happy.
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Ahhhhhh, the water must pump in a more professional manner with a 'pro' system!!
With a DIY, the water thinks...'i'm a bodge job and not from a 4040 so i'm not going to dry like my cousins from the pro system'!
Mate, its commonsense, if your water is 0, diy or pro, you'll not get streaks...
You could work out if Del Boys 3 wheeler, but as long as your TDS is 000ppm and you know how to clean windows then you'll not get spots...
On topic, who cares whether trad or wfp is your preference?
99% of custies just want clean windows, you could use your negligee to clean them if they're not in. As long as the windows are clean when they're back home, jobs a good one
You get crap trad (theres some that live locally) and crap wfp (typing this post)
Both work well, depends who's using them
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Ahhhhhh, the water must pump in a more professional manner with a 'pro' system!!
With a DIY, the water thinks...'i'm a bodge job and not from a 4040 so i'm not going to dry like my cousins from the pro system'!
Mate, its commonsense, if your water is 0, diy or pro, you'll not get streaks...
You could work out if Del Boys 3 wheeler, but as long as your TDS is 000ppm and you know how to clean windows then you'll not get spots...
On topic, who cares whether trad or wfp is your preference?
99% of custies just want clean windows, you could use your negligee to clean them if they're not in. As long as the windows are clean when they're back home, jobs a good one
You get crap trad (theres some that live locally) and crap wfp (typing this post)
Both work well, depends who's using them
Thats what i mean unless using pure your risking losing customers!
Im diy as well so wasnt trying to sound the big i am!
But i do believe some ways are better than others-
A 25ft slx against working with a 25ft fibre glass pole all day, by midday with the fibreglass you will be tired and end up not doing such a good job compared to the lightness of the slx where at midday your still going strong,
The same with someone who lugs a backpack about all day vs a vanmount! The backpacker would be tired by midday and not do such a good job as the guy with energy left who isnt tired from just reeling in and out his reel.
There are many things that add to the source that wfp isnt as good as trad in customers eyes. Im just being open minded with it all, i have had it so many times now canvassing having them ask how is it done as they dont want the pole..
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Ahhhhhh, the water must pump in a more professional manner with a 'pro' system!!
With a DIY, the water thinks...'i'm a bodge job and not from a 4040 so i'm not going to dry like my cousins from the pro system'!
Mate, its commonsense, if your water is 0, diy or pro, you'll not get streaks...
You could work out if Del Boys 3 wheeler, but as long as your TDS is 000ppm and you know how to clean windows then you'll not get spots...
On topic, who cares whether trad or wfp is your preference?
99% of custies just want clean windows, you could use your negligee to clean them if they're not in. As long as the windows are clean when they're back home, jobs a good one
You get crap trad (theres some that live locally) and crap wfp (typing this post)
Both work well, depends who's using them
Thats what i mean unless using pure your risking losing customers!
Im diy as well so wasnt trying to sound the big i am!
But i do believe some ways are better than others-
A 25ft slx against working with a 25ft fibre glass pole all day, by midday with the fibreglass you will be tired and end up not doing such a good job compared to the lightness of the slx where at midday your still going strong,
The same with someone who lugs a backpack about all day vs a vanmount! The backpacker would be tired by midday and not do such a good job as the guy with energy left who isnt tired from just reeling in and out his reel.
There are many things that add to the source that wfp isnt as good as trad in customers eyes. Im just being open minded with it all, i have had it so many times now canvassing having them ask how is it done as they dont want the pole..
I used a 30ft Bayerson impressor for my first 6 months before i brought an slx
Granted, the windows were easier to clean with the slx, and i was probably less nakerd...but the windows weren't any cleaner using the slx...
If i may say so myself, i do a pretty thorough job on the windows (vents,frames etc...) but i did the sane job with the Bayersan...it comes down to the person using it
Just the same with trad, when i first learnt to trad i was crap, didn't even know how to fan, leaving streaks and needing to detail loads...not any more
If the person using either method is competant, they both work well
(I'm talking on the majority of windows here, there is always the odd one that needs to be trad and visa versa)
I've had customers say to me they prefer trad, ive said giz a go and see what you think and they've been happy
Because the previous bloke was poope
I've had sone people say they want that pole thingy as the last trad guy was a port hole cleaner and left the opaque windows...not all trad guys are crap, just this bloke
I repeat, who cares how you clean the window as long as the window finishes clean?
And if you know what you're doing, with both methods, it will do
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Just the same with trad, when i first learnt to trad i was crap, didn't even know how to fan, leaving streaks and needing to detail loads...not any more
you did learn of the best ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Just the same with trad, when i first learnt to trad i was crap, didn't even know how to fan, leaving streaks and needing to detail loads...not any more
you did learn of the best ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I learned from some right chancer I met in a pub car park.
Vin
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Just the same with trad, when i first learnt to trad i was crap, didn't even know how to fan, leaving streaks and needing to detail loads...not any more
you did learn of the best ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I learned from some right chancer I met in a pub car park.
Vin
+1
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If WFP really isn't any good then why are there so many people doing it?
I think it's only slagged off by those who can't afford it. Bless them.
I think your onto something there.
:)
I was up and running for £500 van mount
Your forgetting the key part of that statement.......the van. 👍
I had the van when I was trad cars even for trad are a pain.
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I've had a few customers complain about the quality of finish after using wfp.
The trouble was, the outside glass was so clean, that they could only see the marks on the inside left by a tradder!!!
I'm kidding by the way, I started out using traditional tools for a few years and still use them on a regular basis.
Certain jobs on my round come up absolutely crap using wfp, so to keep the customer I will use the method that suits the job best luckily it's only around 5 jobs a month where I earn half price 😂
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Did I read that right Dazmond , , you spend 5 k a year on wfp expenses . What you doing buying a new extreme every month :o please explain as mine is only 500 a year and that's nearly all on resin .
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Did I read that right Dazmond , , you spend 5 k a year on wfp expenses . What you doing buying a new extreme every month :o please explain as mine is only 500 a year and that's nearly all on resin .
I think daz has worked it out from the last few years of setting up everything that it adds to 5k a year if broken down from buyin vans/equipment. Daz hasnt penny pinched he has done his research and bought the best he could afford.
However like you say wfp expencies are minimal once everything has been bought.
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Did I read that right Dazmond , , you spend 5 k a year on wfp expenses . What you doing buying a new extreme every month :o please explain as mine is only 500 a year and that's nearly all on resin .
That would be £25000 over five years so if you were earning £25000 a year, every fifth year you would be working for
nothing.
But then most on here earn that monthly. ::)roll
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Did I read that right Dazmond , , you spend 5 k a year on wfp expenses . What you doing buying a new extreme every month :o please explain as mine is only 500 a year and that's nearly all on resin .
That would be £25000 over five years so if you were earning £25000 a year, every fifth year you would be working for
nothing.
But then most on here earn that monthly. ::)roll
If the costs were 25k every 5 years wfp then id defo be tradding.
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It's still well over the top for a one man set up . I think those kind of figures put a lot of trad guys off from making the switch .
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It's still well over the top for a one man set up . I think those kind of figures put a lot of trad guys off from making the switch .
There are no real differences in expenses in either trad or wfp, that's how your catch out the Walter Mitties on here.
The biggest yearly expenses in window cleaning are holiday pay, insurances and fuel all of which you get with both methods.
Yes you could use a family car if you wanted to trad as cheaply as possible but most need second vehicle
which is another expense shared by both methods.
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Dazmond might be including fuel costs, 'cos £2k a year tradding seems a lot, too.
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Mayb I'm doing something wrong then.lol
£5000 in expenses a year is less than what I pay. That's including fuel insurances equipment absoloutely everything.
If you run a business that turns over a "decent amount" as window cleaners should be, and keep your expenses to under £5,000 per year, then your doing well.
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Jonny , if your a one man band and your paying anywhere near 5 k a year in expenses , wfp or trad then you are doing something drastically wrong ,
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Rubbish.
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Expenditure for me with WFP:
So, say £3.7k a year for the van (fuel £2k, insurance £500 - repairs, maintenance MOT, tax disc another £1.3k (van is old to maybe average of £1k a year repairs/servicing - it has been more and has been less).
Premises and water - a bit over £2k a year. Resin £200.
So vehicle, premises, water and resin is close to £6k before I start on anything else.
It would be easy to exceed £7k by the time I add on the other stuff like marketing, accountancy, tool replacements, pre-filters, membrane, home printing, telephone, hose, connectors,microfibres. None of those (barring new poles) are a big cost but they do add up.
I appreciate that those who have home facilities for filtering and who only work within a few miles of home can reduce those costs a fair bit but neither of those options are open to me.
Furthermore, many of these expenses are a direct result of WFP. Diesel is a lot more for a Trafic with 800l tank compared to a lightly loaded Ford Escort with trad stuff. Also, no need for premises orextra water bill. Vehicle insurance higher too.
Not rubbioshing what others say. It's just how I find it. However, the extra turnover is much greater than the higher expenses.
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Moyesy i may have mis read your post but how on early are you soending over a grand on your tax disc?! Unless you have 5/6 vans out then fair enough but i think most are on about one man bands...
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Expenditure for me with WFP:
So, say £3.7k a year for the van (fuel £2k, insurance £500 - repairs, maintenance MOT, tax disc another £1.3k (van is old to maybe average of £1k a year repairs/servicing - it has been more and has been less).
Premises and water - a bit over £2k a year. Resin £200.
So vehicle, premises, water and resin is close to £6k before I start on anything else.
It would be easy to exceed £7k by the time I add on the other stuff like marketing, accountancy, tool replacements, pre-filters, membrane, home printing, telephone, hose, connectors,microfibres. None of those (barring new poles) are a big cost but they do add up.
I appreciate that those who have home facilities for filtering and who only work within a few miles of home can reduce those costs a fair bit but neither of those options are open to me.
Furthermore, many of these expenses are a direct result of WFP. Diesel is a lot more for a Trafic with 800l tank compared to a lightly loaded Ford Escort with trad stuff. Also, no need for premises orextra water bill. Vehicle insurance higher too.
Not rubbioshing what others say. It's just how I find it. However, the extra turnover is much greater than the higher expenses.
Paying £3.7k a year for a van that's so old its costing a grand in repairs like I said its very easy to spot the Walter Mitties
on here.
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Moyesy i may have mis read your post but how on early are you soending over a grand on your tax disc?! Unless you have 5/6 vans out then fair enough but i think most are on about one man bands...
You are misreading. Note "repairs, maintenance MOT, ..." before "tax disc". The commas indicate a list of things included in the £1.3k. "Tax disc" is just one of those items (its a bit over £200.
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Expenditure for me with WFP:
So, say £3.7k a year for the van (fuel £2k, insurance £500 - repairs, maintenance MOT, tax disc another £1.3k (van is old to maybe average of £1k a year repairs/servicing - it has been more and has been less).
Premises and water - a bit over £2k a year. Resin £200.
So vehicle, premises, water and resin is close to £6k before I start on anything else.
It would be easy to exceed £7k by the time I add on the other stuff like marketing, accountancy, tool replacements, pre-filters, membrane, home printing, telephone, hose, connectors,microfibres. None of those (barring new poles) are a big cost but they do add up.
I appreciate that those who have home facilities for filtering and who only work within a few miles of home can reduce those costs a fair bit but neither of those options are open to me.
Furthermore, many of these expenses are a direct result of WFP. Diesel is a lot more for a Trafic with 800l tank compared to a lightly loaded Ford Escort with trad stuff. Also, no need for premises orextra water bill. Vehicle insurance higher too.
Not rubbioshing what others say. It's just how I find it. However, the extra turnover is much greater than the higher expenses.
Paying £3.7k a year for a van that's so old its costing a grand in repairs like I said its very easy to spot the Walter Mitties
on here.
Fuel £2k. Insurance £500. Tax disc £200. Repairs AVERAGE of £1k which includes tyres, brakes, steering, MOT. It cost me about £2.5k one year when I had the gearbox stripped. Buying a new one would be much more per year.
So, why Walter Mitty - or are you just being your usual a-hole self?
Actually, forget it.
You win you Bast d.
I'm off.
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Paying £3.7k a year for a van that's so old its costing a grand in repairs like I said its very easy to spot the Walter Mitties
on here.
Your comment makes literally no sense.
£2.7K of that would be spent if the van were brand new. A thousand for servicing and repairs is probably not a bad average over time. Why would that make him a "Walter Mitty"?
Vin
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There are no real differences in expenses in either trad or wfp, that's how your catch out the Walter Mitties on here.
The biggest yearly expenses in window cleaning are holiday pay, insurances and fuel all of which you get with both methods.
Yes you could use a family car if you wanted to trad as cheaply as possible but most need second vehicle
which is another expense shared by both methods.
Expenses over the past year or two for me, WFP, that wouldn't apply if I was trad. In no particular order.
Filters
New membrane when I contaminated the old one
Resin
Charcoal (for my filtering)
New pole to replace worn out pole
New brushes
New hose
Water (metered, it's a lot of cash)
New transfer pump
Electricity costs (booster pump 1kW, transfer pump 900w)
I know trad guys would have some expenses I don't have but not comparable.
I must be a Walter Mitty, too, to have come up with that list without really working at it.
Vin
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There are no real differences in expenses in either trad or wfp, that's how your catch out the Walter Mitties on here.
The biggest yearly expenses in window cleaning are holiday pay, insurances and fuel all of which you get with both methods.
Yes you could use a family car if you wanted to trad as cheaply as possible but most need second vehicle
which is another expense shared by both methods.
Expenses over the past year or two for me, WFP, that wouldn't apply if I was trad. In no particular order.
Filters
New membrane when I contaminated the old one
Resin
Charcoal (for my filtering)
New pole to replace worn out pole
New brushes
New hose
Water (metered, it's a lot of cash)
New transfer pump
Electricity costs (booster pump 1kW, transfer pump 900w)
I know trad guys would have some expenses I don't have but not comparable.
I must be a Walter Mitty, too, to have come up with that list without really working at it.
Vin
Take your expenses over a 5 year period and what would that list actually cost you ?
Yes wfp might cost you a few quid more than tradition methods but it not the thousands per year that some
try to make out.
I know there will be exceptions to the norm, premises water meters and so on but I'm talking about the average
one man window cleaner.
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Expenditure for me with WFP:
So, say £3.7k a year for the van (fuel £2k, insurance £500 - repairs, maintenance MOT, tax disc another £1.3k (van is old to maybe average of £1k a year repairs/servicing - it has been more and has been less).
Premises and water - a bit over £2k a year. Resin £200.
So vehicle, premises, water and resin is close to £6k before I start on anything else.
It would be easy to exceed £7k by the time I add on the other stuff like marketing, accountancy, tool replacements, pre-filters, membrane, home printing, telephone, hose, connectors,microfibres. None of those (barring new poles) are a big cost but they do add up.
I appreciate that those who have home facilities for filtering and who only work within a few miles of home can reduce those costs a fair bit but neither of those options are open to me.
Furthermore, many of these expenses are a direct result of WFP. Diesel is a lot more for a Trafic with 800l tank compared to a lightly loaded Ford Escort with trad stuff. Also, no need for premises orextra water bill. Vehicle insurance higher too.
Not rubbioshing what others say. It's just how I find it. However, the extra turnover is much greater than the higher expenses.
Paying £3.7k a year for a van that's so old its costing a grand in repairs like I said its very easy to spot the Walter Mitties
on here.
Fuel £2k. Insurance £500. Tax disc £200. Repairs AVERAGE of £1k which includes tyres, brakes, steering, MOT. It cost me about £2.5k one year when I had the gearbox stripped. Buying a new one would be much more per year.
So, why Walter Mitty - or are you just being your usual a-hole self?
Actually, forget it.
You win you Bast d.
I'm off.
Sorry I misread your post, I thought you where paying 3.7k a year to buy the van.
Wow some people are way too sensitive to be window cleaners, some of the messers out there would cut them to pieces.
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Moyesy i may have mis read your post but how on early are you soending over a grand on your tax disc?! Unless you have 5/6 vans out then fair enough but i think most are on about one man bands...
You are misreading. Note "repairs, maintenance MOT, ..." before "tax disc". The commas indicate a list of things included in the £1.3k. "Tax disc" is just one of those items (its a bit over £200.
Ahhhh good spot, my mistake :)
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Wow it didnt take much to send him over the edge!
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Rubbish.
do you think so .