Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Shine Window Cleaning on July 24, 2014, 03:41:12 pm
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I have a shurflo pump, and I'm getting a problem with it keeping running out of power! I have recently replaced my alternator, new van battery and leisure battery and it's on a trickle charge relay system.
I've had both batteries tested (and their running fine), I'm wondering if my pumps knackred?
It's just not drawing power, changes to 'L' within minutes, and runs flat (U) minutes later meaning I'm having to run the van to power it- not good at all!
Anyone got any suggestions, or am I on the right track with the pump(which is fairly old). Any help greatly appretiated! 😊👍
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So if you start the van up the pump starts running ok again ?
Darran
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I found out if you aren't doing a lot of motorway miles to get to work you need to charge those leisure batteries once a week. Proper charge with a battery charger for at least 6 hours. Then the split charge relay will keep them topped up. Had same problem recently and this has solved it.
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If the pumps running o.k. with the van engine running then its not your pump.
You need to charge your battery every second evening with a smart charger.
I would top it up every night just to be sure.
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
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sounds like it may be draining the charge away
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Is your controller A new model Varistream. If it is then L = low voltage and U is a voltage below 10.3v where the controller cut the power to save the battery.
I once noted this on a different thread with regard to charging a battery with a SCR.
"I have a 110 amp leisure battery powering my system with a split charge relay.
I have this in a Citroen Relay SWB van with a 150amp alternator.
The reason why we have to charge our leisure batteries regularily is that we mostly don't drive enough miles to put back into the battery what we take out.
Each of my Shurflo pumps draws about 3.4amps with the digital controller setting we use. The battery will accept a recharge of about 10 amps at best, but usually between about 5 - 7.5 amps with a fairly full battery - remember a battery nearing a fully charged state will accept an ever reducing charge until the battery is fully charged.
So if we travel 10 minutes to and from the day's work, a 20 minute charge of 7.5amps ( = 2.5amps) won't come anywhere near replacing the 13.5 amps we have used assuming the pump runs 4 hours.
The split charge relay wiring from the main van battery is protected by a 15 amp fuse which has never blown in the 3 years (now 5 years) this system has been in this van. This means that the amps drawn by the leisure battery has never been more that 15 amps even when the battery was flat. If it had then the fuse would have blown.
My son in law has a Ford Transit Connect LWB with the latest Varistream digital controller and he drives around trip of about 30 miles a day and he now manages keep his 85amp leisure battery pretty much fully charged travelling this distance with his split charge relay. (The new digital Varistream draws current even when the controller is switched off, and its only since we have put an isolator switch on the supply to the Varistream that we have been able to achieve this. We estimate that the draw on the battery was about 25 amps over a week.) But it's not the distance he travels that's the most important - what is important is how long it takes. I have found that my battery will still be charged at the exact same rate whether the engine is reving at 3000 rpm or just idling at traffic lights."
Here is another post with more detail about charging and fitting an isolator switch.
"......... you need to order or buy a 10 amp on/off switch from an electrical sales outlet. This will be fine.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-1-gang-10a-switch-ip55-240v/47152
Now you want to put this next to your controller so you can switch off the current from your leisure battery to your Varistream. So this will be an isolator switch. The problem with the latest Varistream is that they use current even when they are switched off.
We found that a new fully charged 85 amp Numax leisure battery was being drained to a 75% charge just lying idle for a week. At the end of the day just switch the switch off - end of story.
The very reason you are able to let the van engine run and charge the leisure battery a bit shows that the split charge relay system is working correctly.
I have fitted a volt and amp meter to my system to see what actually happens during a normal working day.
With our Varistreams the higher the pump flow rate the more current (amps) the motor draws. So an unregulated pump running flat out would be drawing about 8 amps, whereas ours will be drawing around half that, depending on our flow rate setting.
If we assume that your pump is drawing 4 amps per hour and your pump actually pumps water for 4 hours through the day, then the pump will have drawn 16 amps of current from the battery. In theory this means that if you have an 85 amp battery you will only have 69 amps left.
Even when my battery is half charged my alternator settles down to a charge rate of 8 amps when recharging the leisure battery. In theory this means that your van needs to be charging your battery for 2 hours to replenish what you took out. (Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that as the battery will only accept a smaller and smaller charge as it gets fuller. I once read in an Australian camper van article that someone estimated it would take a road journey of 750 kms to recharge an 85amp leisure battery via the vans alternator.)
Now it usually takes me 10 minutes to drive to my first house maybe another 10 minutes moving the van etc and 10 minutes driving home. So using the above example, I am taking 16 amps out of the battery and only putting 4 amps back in the day (30 minutes driving at a recharge of 8 amps). So you can see that within a short period of time my battery would be flat if I didn't supplement it's charge with my battery charger.
If I get stuck in traffic, thats good for my leisure battery as the van still charges my battery at the same rate idling as it does at 3000 rpm on the motorway. So the longer it takes you to get home, ie the slower your drive, the more charge you are putting into your leisure battery and also saving fuel.
If you do a search, I have commented on leisure battery charging on numerous occasions, some of which are relevant to you."
Hope that helps.
Adding to this;
My leisure battery was showing a charge of 75% of full charge about 4 months ago. I embarked on a journey to London in my Citroen Relay van. It took about 4 hours of driving (around 250 miles) before the leisure battery was fully charged (14.4 volts with a trickle charge of around half an amp. The initial charge rate into the leisure battery on setting off was 4.9 amps at 13.8v.)
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
A leisure battery is fully charged when it reads a voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts after it has been stood idle for 4 hours. Once I switch the engine of the van off, the voltage across the leisure battery initially drops quickly, but then drops more slowly. Taking a voltage reading soon after switching off will give a false fully charged reading and will be different to a reading taken 4 hours later.
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
A leisure battery is fully charged when it reads a voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts after it has been stood idle for 4 hours. Once I switch the engine of the van off, the voltage across the leisure battery initially drops quickly, but then drops more slowly. Taking a voltage reading soon after switching off will give a false fully charged reading and will be different to a reading taken 4 hours later.
Mine shows 13.5 when charged.
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
A leisure battery is fully charged when it reads a voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts after it has been stood idle for 4 hours. Once I switch the engine of the van off, the voltage across the leisure battery initially drops quickly, but then drops more slowly. Taking a voltage reading soon after switching off will give a false fully charged reading and will be different to a reading taken 4 hours later.
Mine shows 13.5 when charged.
What does it show 4 hours after the charger has been removed?
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
A leisure battery is fully charged when it reads a voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts after it has been stood idle for 4 hours. Once I switch the engine of the van off, the voltage across the leisure battery initially drops quickly, but then drops more slowly. Taking a voltage reading soon after switching off will give a false fully charged reading and will be different to a reading taken 4 hours later.
Mine shows 13.5 when charged.
What does it show 4 hours after the charger has been removed?
My leisure battery shows 14.1 when charging (SRC) 13.1 just after turning engine van off and 12.9 4 hrs later - cheers for that info Spruce thought I had Battery Gremlins
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Cheers fellas...will try that, although had my leisure battery tested and it was putting out power fine and is charged.
Only do short hops, so mayb that's the prob as u say and needs charging anyway?
A leisure battery is fully charged when it reads a voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts after it has been stood idle for 4 hours. Once I switch the engine of the van off, the voltage across the leisure battery initially drops quickly, but then drops more slowly. Taking a voltage reading soon after switching off will give a false fully charged reading and will be different to a reading taken 4 hours later.
Mine shows 13.5 when charged.
What does it show 4 hours after the charger has been removed?
Never been sad enough to look. ;D
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Really interesting answer from Spruce, and very helpful.
I let my split charger do all of the charging for my 115ah leisure battery, and it's never let me down. I just bought a digital voltage meter off, so I can keep an eye on how much power it's holding.
One thing I have noticed over the years is that as pumps get older, the bearings wear out and this causes them to draw more current. Personally I would recommend replacing the pump every year / 18 months or so for this reason. Also has the advantage that you're less likely to suffer from sudden pump failure.
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I don't use an electronic flow controller so I don't know about the symbols that come up. . I wanted to clarify this from the start but I don't want to debate about this as my post is about something a bit different.
I have a split charge relay. I had symptoms that resembled power loss. Running the engine while working was a slight help to boost things. Bench charging the battery helped a bit for a while too. It appeared to be taking in some air - though there was some intermittence about it. I checked hoses/tubing on feed side of pump, changed some water connectors over in case one was faulty. Eventually the light bulb came on and I could have kicked myself. The hose that drops into the tank has a couple of fittings on the end with mesh - a first line of defence to stop muck getting into the pump. The meshing was clogged. Removed it, cleaned it under the tap and the system has worked fine ever since. I had even changed the pump at one point. I kept the pump and other connectors because I wasn't convinced they were the problem - so nothing wastedas they will be needed eventually.
All I'm saying is, don't overlook the very simple stuff. It's surprising what can cause a problem.
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A clogged pump filter eh! Happened once to me too. ;D
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A clogged pump filter eh! Happened once to me too. ;D
Did you try other fixes first (like me) or did you figure it out straight away?
Could have kicked myself :)
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Cheers Spruce)and other contributors...few things there to eliminate, that's great! 😊👍
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I've never bothered with any filter for the pump.... 6 years on, same pump, still working.... no complicated controller either..... just a voltage regulator and that's it.
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Okay guys...tried fully charging Leisure Battery overnite, and it still seems to be discharging somehow- my Varistream
Controller is still flashing (L) after minutes and then (U) when dead! Nightmare!
I'm literally having to run engine to keep pump working- absoloute nitemare!
Any suggestions guys? Only other solution I can think of is an Auto-Electrician...but he charges £60pet hour plus parts- help!
😔👎
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Your battery sounds dead (not holding charge)
If you haven't got one, take your battery to maplins and ask them to put it on a voltmetre to see what condition its in
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I've had some problems with my DIY pump box which is shurflo pump and a varistream controller.
Daqua was helpful and told me there was possibly a faulty connection somewhere due to moisture which would reduce the voltage. Changed some connections as there was a build up of white corrosion and that was the problem solved.
Good luck
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I've had some problems with my DIY pump box which is shurflo pump and a varistream controller.
Daqua was helpful and told me there was possibly a faulty connection somewhere due to moisture which would reduce the voltage. Changed some connections as there was a build up of white corrosion and that was the problem solved.
Good luck
Solder all the connections.
No problem then with connectors or moisture.
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Every battery that's packed up on me always shows a full charge when I took them back to the shop to claim back on my 'three year warranty".
Never got one replaced because they say they are holding the charge ::)roll
I just run off one of my vans twin batteries these days no problems.