Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon Gerrard on June 09, 2014, 08:35:54 pm

Title: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 09, 2014, 08:35:54 pm
Any recommendations for where to get a couple of new vac motors?
Reliability appears to be an issue these days, so recommends would be good.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: adrian marsh on June 09, 2014, 08:38:18 pm
Alltec? Maybe more expensive than Ebay, but at least you know they're genuine.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: John Kelly on June 09, 2014, 08:50:58 pm
We have Electros in stock.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Russ Chadd on June 09, 2014, 09:43:16 pm
Electro motors are very good
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 09, 2014, 10:04:44 pm
Are they much more powerful than a standard lamb motor ?
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: peter maybury on June 09, 2014, 10:09:03 pm
The performance of motors that are the same size and wattage will vary little, how long they last is the measure of value for money.
I would value John's experience where that is concerned.
Peter
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Andrew@Approved Carpet Cleaning on June 09, 2014, 10:10:54 pm
The electro seems to be the one to go for Peter, haven't heard about a reliability problem with them as of yet.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 09, 2014, 10:47:23 pm
Are they much more powerful than a standard lamb motor ?

depends ...  there are about six different 5.7 electros available .
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 10, 2014, 05:31:12 pm
last time I wanted some vacs and asked John Kelly, he said he didn't sell them anymore because they were proving unreliable . So if he's gone with elecros, that's good enough for me.

Simon
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 12, 2014, 10:35:41 pm
so are the 1200 watt electros as powerful as a 1500 watt lamb motor ?
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: CleanerCarpets on June 12, 2014, 11:29:04 pm
From what I can see electro's for series, lambs for parallel
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 12, 2014, 11:49:05 pm
From what I can see electro's for series, lambs for parallel

?  wouldnt really agree .

The higher powered electros would be very good in parallel ...

Or the Ametek 8.4 would be really good in series .


Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: John Kelly on June 13, 2014, 08:23:38 am
What motor did Extracta put in their Turbo machine because according to the receivers this is what pushed them under.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 13, 2014, 10:15:27 am
What motor did Extracta put in their Turbo machine because according to the receivers this is what pushed them under.

Interesting  , That would be the Ametek 8.4 then .
And i believe they had them in series  .

But 8.4 is used in series for a good while now in the states with no reported issues in a couple of machines like the Cobb Breeze 8.4 and the Hydro-force Nautilus extreme .

Could be the same issues as the 6.6
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Ian Gourlay on June 13, 2014, 10:39:31 am
Ok John Martin do not really study  Motors what are the issues with 6.6 motors
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Kev Martin on June 13, 2014, 10:50:50 am
Not sure what you need these motors for but we sell triple motor wet vacs.  We have sold over 2000 of them and had to replace 3 motors in total out of over 6000 motors in 8/9 years one of which was in one of our own vacs over 8 years old.  The motors are Ametek

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 13, 2014, 11:06:45 am
@John Martin.. Email sent john  :)
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 13, 2014, 11:28:16 am
Not sure what you need these motors for but we sell triple motor wet vacs.  We have sold over 2000 of them and had to replace 3 motors in total out of over 6000 motors in 8/9 years one of which was in one of our own vacs over 8 years old.  The motors are Ametek

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

The tried and tested 5.7 two and three stages Ameteks are as reliable as they come .
The 6.6 and 8.4 two stages are a newer fan design on a slightly larger motor . A motor in you triple vac may produce around 350 airwatts ....  the ametek 8.4 produces 680airwatts  .   
The power increase is desirable in carpet cleaning extractors .  Less motors means less current draw ( you might want a 3kw heater also in the machine )  and more power = better extraction and drying times .
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 13, 2014, 11:32:46 am
Ok John Martin do not really study  Motors what are the issues with 6.6 motors

 The 6.6 ...Not really sure , perhaps some of the manufactures reading this would clarify .  They have ramdomly failed in all of the uk machines using them acording to reports here and elsewhere .
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: John Kelly on June 13, 2014, 11:58:26 am
A wet vac is a whole different ball game to a carpet extractor. We've had Numatic wet vacs for years and never had to replace a motor even though we were often sucking water through them. They have peripheral motors rather than tangental as most carpet extractors have the exception being Craftex machines.
A carpet extractor is pulling against a blockage all the time, i;e the carpet pile and is nearly always sucking hot moist air. Wet vacs with a hard floor pickup have a lot more air going through them and usually dealing with cold substances.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 13, 2014, 12:04:54 pm
That'll be why I had water coming out one of the exhausts on the grace the other day and never blew a vac. I think I tipped water over the side when I was filling up  :)
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: CleanerCarpets on June 13, 2014, 08:28:58 pm
John - i have an old Ninja machine as a back up and i would like to upgrade it

I was thinking of 2 electro motors in series - a HD and a standard - which i think is how the nwe Ninja and Enforcer is set up

The pump is a little 135psi on demand and i would like to up that to a 175 or 200 psi

From what i can see that would all be ok on one lead - do you know the best place that sells the HD and standard Electro's?
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 13, 2014, 08:35:09 pm
John Kelly has the 1200 watt motor but maybe he can get you the 1500 watt too. It's worth a phone call
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 13, 2014, 08:56:29 pm
John emailed me today, he's getting the 1500 watt in on Tuesday.

Simon
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 13, 2014, 10:40:56 pm
John - i have an old Ninja machine as a back up and i would like to upgrade it

I was thinking of 2 electro motors in series - a HD and a standard - which i think is how the nwe Ninja and Enforcer is set up

The pump is a little 135psi on demand and i would like to up that to a 175 or 200 psi

From what i can see that would all be ok on one lead - do you know the best place that sells the HD and standard Electro's?

This John ?  Go for it .    It will not be a problem electrically .

The Electros used in the  Ashbys setup  ( HD+SD)  are ... AFQ6600-117    and AF6600-49

I would say a few places are selling these motors now . 

Perhaps not recommended but Im running two 1600w and a 400psi pump  and have not overheated a plug fuse or what ever else yet.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: dan paton on June 13, 2014, 11:28:22 pm
where do the 1600 motors come from john ?
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 14, 2014, 02:23:09 am
where do the 1600 motors come from john ?


AF6600-49  is the 1600w Ashbys use ...  so Alltec and cleansmart and others will have it also .

I have an AF6600-47 which is the same but a bit more powerfull due to it having a conical fan design like the 6.6

There is also an AF6600-83 which is the most powerfull 1800w conical three stage .

There is also a high power conical 5.7 two stage ... but i dont the model number for that  :)
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Ian Gourlay on June 15, 2014, 11:07:24 pm
John  you are confusing me again If you fit two 1600 or two 1500 that John kelly is getting in can you run pump of same wire. What is the diffrence in performance between two 1500 electros and two 1200 electros
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 15, 2014, 11:33:15 pm
John  you are confusing me again If you fit two 1600 or two 1500 that John kelly is getting in can you run pump of same wire. What is the diffrence in performance between two 1500 electros and two 1200 electros

Im not sure which one JK is getting ( the 1500w )  probably this one .

http://www.steambrite.com/mytee-electro-motor-model-q6600090amp26230v-stage-230v-flat-fanvacuum-motor-c304-p-10873.html
Its performance is between the 1200w and the 1600w models ...it is similar to the usual ametek 1400w .
Mytee use that 1500w motor in the ltd3  ...  where as they use 1600w's in the ltd5/1005dx

JK probably have to sell these as direct replacements for the Ametek 1200w and 1400w motors so the 1600w motors may not suit most situations .

Electro Performance is something like this .

1200w    130" lift  and 96 cfm
1500w     137"lift  and 104cfm
Flat 1600w  146" lift and 110cfm
conical 1600w  153" lift and 115cfm
conical 1600w two stage 130" lift and 130 cfm
conical 1800w  156"lift  117cfm




Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: Darren O on June 16, 2014, 07:50:22 am
In the past ive used 1200w 1400w 1500w with my portable and i didnt notice any difference in suction at all.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: derikraven on June 16, 2014, 02:13:21 pm
can I fit two Lamb Electric vac motors ( 117123-13 ) in my ninja? I believe they are 1400watt. Would this be too much power in one socket and trip my customers electrics. Advice please.
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: john martin on June 16, 2014, 02:55:37 pm
can I fit two Lamb Electric vac motors ( 117123-13 ) in my ninja? I believe they are 1400watt. Would this be too much power in one socket and trip my customers electrics. Advice please.

I think many have used two of those motors on one cord with no issues ...  its up to you though .
If you check out the data for the 117123-13 here .

http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/Product%20Bulletin/117123-00.pdf

You see that the equivalent 1400/1500w electro ( the steambrite link above ) is a little more efficient  ( about 10 more cfm ) ( about 30 more airwatts ) 
Both have the same current draw , so those might be worth considering although u may not notice the difference .

the 1600w electros also seem to stay around 7amps max but offer more power .

You could also copy the newer Ashbys setup ( one HD and one SD motor )
They are the AFQ-660-117 ( 1200w )  and AF6600-49 ( 1600w) 
These are available from a few places mentioned in previous post . 
The 1200w goes closest to the wastetank and the 1600w pulls through its exhaust in the Ashbys setup .
Title: Re: 3 stage vac motors
Post by: derikraven on June 17, 2014, 05:57:25 am
thanks for that John :D