Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: [GQC] Tim on May 27, 2014, 11:50:21 am
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Have had a chance to play with a brand new Phoenix fp22s. I know some prefer these clamps, but they just really don't do it for me. It doesn't actually seem like a bad pole in terms of weight, closed length and rigidity but I think the pole would have been much more competitive with a lateral clamp design.
I don't know when this one was build or if it has had any upgrades but it seems to me there hasn't been much of an improvement since the phoenix poles have come out?
(Stephen, can you show some before and after pictures so I can compare and see whether this clamp is the latest rendition? It's my brother in law's pole, so would like to inform him if there is anything we can do about it.)
The clamps are stiff to operate, and even though they seem tightened up fully, with no space left in between the clamp I can actually twist the pole sections. It just seems to clamp at the lever side of the clamp rather then properly clamping down on the actual section. I know this was an issue with the first phoenix poles, but seems like the problem is still there. To me the lengthways clamp design just doesn't seem to work from a design perspective, a lateral clamp seems to clamp down the right way. I've used nothing but lateral clamps on my poles so to me it's awkward to use, and they are quite chunky/big too. Saying that, I do have an old Xtel and that seems a lot easier in operation.
With such little space left to adjust, I see this not lasting that long when the sections do start to wear.
Can't comment on the rigidity as this one is glass fibre, seems a bit whippy but other glassfibre poles are similar if compared to a full carbon pole of course. Would have been interesting to compare with similar poles but sadly I don't have any GF poles.
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Mmm doesnt sound good on a brand new pole.
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Hey Tim,
Thanks for your post, In response, you're well known as a hardcore Gardiners fan. Forgive me for thinking your post seems pretty loaded. Previous posts you've stated "I'll never purchase from WCW/Facelift' - mainly because of me!
I recall the Ionic roadshow report you penned, while very informative, you outright stated that lateral clamps are better than any vertical clamp. That confirms you're closed minded to anything with the potential to be better than what you have. Faced with facts about products, would you deny their validity? I'm certain, even providing evidence concerning ease of use, speed, ergonomics, etc you would still say 'No, this is better'. It would be a complete waste of time attempting to convince you otherwise. As Benjamin Franklin said "A man convinced against his will; is of the same opinion still.”
Touching on a few points made. If the clamps are stiff it is 'because' they are tightened up. I'm not sure about your comments intent. The clamps on the Phoenix are the easiest to adjust out of all poles available. A lengthwise clamp design completely works a from a user point of view, lateral are simply not ergonomic, I'm guessing you'll just argue the point despite the facts.
Before spending tens of thousands on clamp production, we looked at the current trend of lateral clamps, while being extremely easy to create our own version, we chose to do something better for the user. Shouldn't we be at least acknowledged for doing something different and giving you a choice?
As a side point, there is no clamp gap when closed, we have sprung clamps which open when activated and close tightly, when down.
The Phoenix range has made a massive impact in the water fed pole market. considering the vast amount of poles available and the current market bias, we must be doing something right. Thousands of Phoenix poles are out there. If poles are cheaper now, you've got us to thank! They maybe cheaper still in the future.... watch this space.
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Hey Tim,
Thanks for your post, In response, you're well known as a hardcore Gardiners fan. Forgive me for thinking your post seems pretty loaded. Previous posts you've stated "I'll never purchase from WCW/Facelift' - mainly because of me!
I recall the Ionic roadshow report you penned, while very informative, you outright stated that lateral clamps are better than any vertical clamp. That confirms you closed minded to anything with the potential to be better than what you have. Faced with facts about products, would you deny their validity? I'm certain, even providing evidence concerning ease of use, speed, ergonomics, etc you would still say 'No, this is better'. It would be a complete waste of time attempting to convince you otherwise. As Benjamin Franklin said "A man convinced against his will; is of the same opinion still.”
Touching on a few points made. If the clamps are stiff it is 'because' they are tightened up. I'm not sure about your comments intent. The clamps on the Phoenix have the easiest to adjust out of all poles available. A lengthwise clamp design completely works a from a user point of view, lateral are simply not ergonomic, I'm guessing you'll just argue the point despite the facts.
Before spending tens of thousands on clamp production, we looked at the current trend of lateral clamps, while being extremely easy to create our own version, we chose to do something better for the user. Shouldn't we be at least acknowledged for doing something different and giving you a choice?
As a side point, there is no clamp gap when closed, we have sprung clamps which open when activated and close tightly when down.
The Phoenix range has made a massive impact in the water fed pole market. considering the vast amount of poles available and the current market bias, we must be doing something right. Thousands of Phoenix poles are out there. If poles are cheaper now, you've got us to thank! They maybe cheaper still in the future.... watch this space.
Hey Foxy, if I could be bothered, I could pick that whole statement to bits!! ;D
I'll stand aside this time & let the others do it! :P ;D
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Winpro, the only reason I post is to see what you can come up with! ;D
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Winpro, the only reason I post is to see what you can come up with! ;D
You got me Foxy, I'm dropping off here, bed time for this boy!! ;D ;D
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Hey Tim,
Thanks for your post, In response, you're well known as a hardcore Gardiners fan. Forgive me for thinking your post seems pretty loaded. Previous posts you've stated "I'll never purchase from WCW/Facelift' - mainly because of me!
I recall the Ionic roadshow report you penned, while very informative, you outright stated that lateral clamps are better than any vertical clamp. That confirms you're closed minded to anything with the potential to be better than what you have. Faced with facts about products, would you deny their validity? I'm certain, even providing evidence concerning ease of use, speed, ergonomics, etc you would still say 'No, this is better'. It would be a complete waste of time attempting to convince you otherwise. As Benjamin Franklin said "A man convinced against his will; is of the same opinion still.”
Touching on a few points made. If the clamps are stiff it is 'because' they are tightened up. I'm not sure about your comments intent. The clamps on the Phoenix are the easiest to adjust out of all poles available. A lengthwise clamp design completely works a from a user point of view, lateral are simply not ergonomic, I'm guessing you'll just argue the point despite the facts.
Before spending tens of thousands on clamp production, we looked at the current trend of lateral clamps, while being extremely easy to create our own version, we chose to do something better for the user. Shouldn't we be at least acknowledged for doing something different and giving you a choice?
As a side point, there is no clamp gap when closed, we have sprung clamps which open when activated and close tightly, when down.
The Phoenix range has made a massive impact in the water fed pole market. considering the vast amount of poles available and the current market bias, we must be doing something right. Thousands of Phoenix poles are out there. If poles are cheaper now, you've got us to thank! They maybe cheaper still in the future.... watch this space.
It's not my pole it's my brother in law's. He'd be thankful for the great customer service, I'm sure.
I'm not even going to bother responding to the rest. Highly unprofessional.
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My old Xtel pole had vertical clamps, its was my first pole and took a lot of abuse.
Retired it after 4 years when I started using Gardiners poles but I can honestly say
the clamps worked as good as when new and you want to see the wear on the pole sections.
Infect I would choose them any day over the Gardiner smart clamp.
Don't know if the Phoenix clamps are to the same standard and quality, but the fact that they are vertical wouldn't
put me off.
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Tim, apologies if I've come across unprofessional. Words on the screen don't always come across as intended. As you asked me a question, I thought it would be rude not to reply.
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Wow, its went from bad clamps to poor customer service so no longer an honest
review to me just somebody with a grudge.
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Tim, apologies if I've come across unprofessional. Words on the screen don't always come across as intended. As you asked me a question, I thought it would be rude not to reply.
Stephen, you didn't actually reply to the question I asked, you once again personally attacked me for having a different opinion to yours rather then sorting out a problem or answering a question. Which is not the first time. So while I don't hold grudges I don't feel particularly inclined to purchase anything from WCW because of that reason and past experiences on this forum.
As regards to my comments on the clamps, unlike perhaps others I do not let my feelings cloud my judgement. I feel I've been honest with my evaluation of the clamps. Feel free to disagree with that however.
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A friend of mine has the Phoenix 22.
It's 10 months old and most sections are spinning with no room for adjustment.
It's a big problem to be fair.
I'm 3 years in with my gardiners slx 25 and they all still clamp perfect. That's without smart clamps.
I'm not saying gardiners are better poles but that's why I keep buying them, great value for money.
Id probably have had to buy 3/4 facelift poles by the time my current has lasted me.
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A friend of mine has the Phoenix 22.
It's 10 months old and most sections are spinning with no room for adjustment.
It's a big problem to be fair.
I'm 3 years in with my gardiners slx 25 and they all still clamp perfect. That's without smart clamps.
I'm not saying gardiners are better poles but that's why I keep buying them, great value for money.
Id probably have had to buy 3/4 facelift poles by the time my current has lasted me.
It would be interesting to know what pole material, where he bought, etc. it will be a simply clamp up grade for it to be good as new. Can you get him to contact us?
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A friend of mine has the Phoenix 22.
It's 10 months old and most sections are spinning with no room for adjustment.
It's a big problem to be fair.
I'm 3 years in with my gardiners slx 25 and they all still clamp perfect. That's without smart clamps.
I'm not saying gardiners are better poles but that's why I keep buying them, great value for money.
Id probably have had to buy 3/4 facelift poles by the time my current has lasted me.
Is that the pics floating about on internet with the top section only showing ?
Look liked bad pole maintaince to me as it was scratched.
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Hang on a minute Tim, not sure how this is being turned into a personal attack from my end? That's a bit naughty.
I'm simply commenting on your pervious posts and thoughts. I'm looking at this post you started, thinking what angle is it coming from?
Not being funny, but if someone said to me 'Hey, Tim is writing a review on the Phoenix poles'. I could pretty much guess the content and where it was going based on previous comments.
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A friend of mine has the Phoenix 22.
It's 10 months old and most sections are spinning with no room for adjustment.
It's a big problem to be fair.
I'm 3 years in with my gardiners slx 25 and they all still clamp perfect. That's without smart clamps.
I'm not saying gardiners are better poles but that's why I keep buying them, great value for money.
Id probably have had to buy 3/4 facelift poles by the time my current has lasted me.
we have a slx 22 thats 6 months old and three of the poles need cutting down as there spinning , also replaced two clamps already so I think its unfair to say all phoenix poles are bad when some of gardiners are the same
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I loved my phoenix full carbon pole and the clamps are great , only problem is sections wear out too quickly so bought gardiners with smart clamps , lets see if I can get at least 2 years out of of this one
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A friend of mine has the Phoenix 22.
It's 10 months old and most sections are spinning with no room for adjustment.
It's a big problem to be fair.
I'm 3 years in with my gardiners slx 25 and they all still clamp perfect. That's without smart clamps.
I'm not saying gardiners are better poles but that's why I keep buying them, great value for money.
Id probably have had to buy 3/4 facelift poles by the time my current has lasted me.
we have a slx 22 thats 6 months old and three of the poles need cutting down as there spinning , also replaced two clamps already so I think its unfair to say all phoenix poles are bad when some of gardiners are the same
Really? I bought a number of slx22s in September last year. Every one of them still functions like they did on day one. The clamps are great. Any spinning - just tighten and it's sorted.
I wonder why the difference of experience?
I feel I need to add, I have used Phoenix poles. They are excellent.
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its the usual section one and two that start spinning after 8 or 9 months
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i also have a full carbon phoenix , this is a excellent pole.
The top 2 section of my pole spin mainly when not extended , i have been sent clamo upgrades but not got round to fitting.
The customer service i have received from WCW / Facelift has been excellent .
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I have the 22 hybrib pole, I do love the clamps but the top section has worn down and its been about a year.
I have to lacquer every 2 weeks to stop it from sliding down while working.
The last time I separated it to lacquer it I used electric tape, to tape the bottom of the pole as a stopper and this has helped with the top spinning\sliding down.
I think the full carbon one would be a bit better.
PS also have a slx 25 but its new and I only use it for higher jobs.