Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on May 21, 2014, 05:11:02 pm

Title: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Dave Willis on May 21, 2014, 05:11:02 pm
How poor the results are that is and totally amazed nobody ever complains. In my view it's a crap way to clean windows with poor finish on close inspection. Water spots, brush marks etc. Equipment is still not brilliant in my opinion.
Brushes only just manage most of the time.

Oh well, it's just me of course because everyone else gets perfect results every time  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: ascjim on May 21, 2014, 05:16:32 pm
Beats going up a ladder
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: 8weekly on May 21, 2014, 05:17:53 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Darranvps on May 21, 2014, 05:19:10 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: DaveG on May 21, 2014, 05:21:29 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

Had to  ;D at that too!
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Clever Forum Name on May 21, 2014, 05:29:41 pm
Go back to trad then ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 21, 2014, 05:44:15 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

 ;D

Seriously Dave.......you must be doing something wrong?

Occasionally we all get the odd drip mark and bit of bird muck left, but I've never had brush marks?

What brush are you using?
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: PoleKing on May 21, 2014, 05:45:40 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

 ;D

Seriously Dave.......you must be doing something wrong?

Occasionally we all get the odd drip mark and bit of bird muck left, but I've never had brush marks?

What brush are you using?

Brush marks are from not rinsing enough
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: dazmond on May 21, 2014, 05:47:29 pm
i love wfp!it does a great job most of the time.just rinse a bit more off the glass and jobs a good un esp in hot sunny weather! ;) :)
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: rah on May 21, 2014, 05:48:35 pm
I'm into my 10th year with it now. Must say up to about 2 years ago I would have agreed, I wasn't the most switched on about how clean my water was! Now, I change filters weekly, measure purity rigoursly every time I fill and Now I feel I do get the results expected.

May be you could do with a close inspection of how you operate ?

Rob.

Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 21, 2014, 05:55:41 pm
Your just a poop window cleaner Dave! :-X
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Fin Clearview on May 21, 2014, 06:46:00 pm
Moaner of the month award goes to.. ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: dazmond on May 21, 2014, 07:01:05 pm
Moaner of the YEAR
 award goes to.. ;D

FTFY! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Fin Clearview on May 21, 2014, 07:04:55 pm
Moaner of the YEAR
 award goes to.. ;D

FTFY! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Lol we've both got it coming then, run for the hills Daz ;)
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Frankybadboy on May 21, 2014, 07:28:15 pm
we know dave just sh-it at cleaning windows,

he cant go back to trad cause he cant trad  ;D ;D ;D ;D

trow me your extreme if you cant use it
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Richard Neal on May 21, 2014, 08:04:37 pm
I'm into my 10th year with it now. Must say up to about 2 years ago I would have agreed, I wasn't the most switched on about how clean my water was! Now, I change filters weekly, measure purity rigoursly every time I fill and Now I feel I do get the results expected.

May be you could do with a close inspection of how you operate ?

Rob.



Every week?
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 21, 2014, 08:09:33 pm
A bit O.T.T Richard.....
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: ben M on May 21, 2014, 09:23:13 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

 ;D
;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Dave Willis on May 21, 2014, 10:38:16 pm
 ;D seriously, if you really look very closely in brilliant sunshine - it's crap!

Looks superb from four feet away though
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: 8weekly on May 21, 2014, 10:44:03 pm
;D seriously, if you really look very closely in brilliant sunshine - it's crap!

Looks superb from four feet away though
I did a first clean today & after the first pass you are right. From a distance of 4 foot they looked good but close up they were very spotty. But I expected that and because I can clean windows with WFP I gave them a second going over and they dried perfectly.  ;)

Seriously Dave, I am quite self critical, but unless you are over stating for effect I suggest a training course with Dave Willis.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: H20cleaning on May 21, 2014, 11:41:04 pm
I have to disagree, i clean my mums, dads, brothers and a few of my mates parents houses and i have only ever once had a poor quality finish, and that was when my TDS was 010.
So now i keep it below 005 and its never a problem, most of my customers love it and even comment on how much cleaner they stay for long we.
Some customers even think pure water leaves a protective layer on the windows because when it rains they dry perfect again  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: rosskesava on May 22, 2014, 12:02:36 am
It's also amazes me how many trad windies do an appalling job and the customer doesn't complain.

There's one who I see every Friday when I do all my shops etc, and the job he does is so terrible and so badly done that I don't know how he keeps the work.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: koopmaster on May 22, 2014, 08:08:07 am
You can get spots from a high YDS (above 5) or not rinsing enought. 

I learned last year that first cleans are the hardest,  I always WET all the top windows with a quick scrub first and then go back and give them another wash and then go back a 3rd time and rinse (off the glass)

If I rinse on the glass on new cleans they have spots,  after that i just have my flow on 28 to 30 and rinse on the glass.

I am using a ultralight sill brush.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: [GQC] Tim on May 22, 2014, 10:25:28 pm
Amazes me that after 8 years you still can't clean windows.  ;D

+1  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 23, 2014, 06:14:47 am
 how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Dave Willis on May 23, 2014, 06:47:18 am
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 23, 2014, 06:49:25 am
how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now

I know right!

Ladder marks in people's lawns, marks on window ledges, dirt left in frames and seals, front doors not properly washed down, not being able to clean windows above conservatories or dorma windows or veluxs and so not being able to give my customers a thorough job.

I could never go back to trad for this reason.

 
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 23, 2014, 07:03:43 am
Bruce, drag yourself into the 21st century chum !
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 23, 2014, 07:23:39 am
take the easy way out you mean .    not me .         its like the automatic car washes, theyve taken a right hammering from the hand car wash boys,who have literally cleaned up and rightly so.

 now in my opinion , and my opinion carries some weight im not some tuppeny-happenny fly by night sleep by day dooshbag ,  wfp is bloomin marvellous for commercial high where standards are mediocre,come on admit it  dont get uppety on me -  be honest now,for once in your life -  you know ,and i know, the school knows ,theres still bird plop residue on that school window 3 floors up , i did 6 yrs wfp for a big firm in the city  so i do know

 but for homes where faultless standards are required by the nitpicker  trad is the leader

Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 23, 2014, 07:35:52 am
I honestly could not disagree more Bruce!
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: dazmond on May 23, 2014, 07:37:42 am
take the easy way out you mean .    not me .         its like the automatic car washes, theyve taken a right hammering from the hand car wash boys,who have literally cleaned up and rightly so.

 now in my opinion , and my opinion carries some weight im not some tuppeny-happenny fly by night dooshbag ,  wfp is bloomin marvellous for commercial high where standards are mediocre,come on admit it  dont get uppety on me -  be honest now-  you know ,and i know, the school knows ,theres still bird plop residue on that school window 3 floors up , i did 6 yrs wfp for a big firm in the city  so i do know

 but for homes where faultless standards are required by the nitpicker  trad is the leader







how do you clean windows above conservatories,velux and extensions?(i guess you dont right?)

how do you clean frames and doors properly?

what about f/s/g,conny roofs and solar panels?
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: ben M on May 23, 2014, 07:41:31 am
take the easy way out you mean .    not me .         its like the automatic car washes, theyve taken a right hammering from the hand car wash boys,who have literally cleaned up and rightly so.

 now in my opinion , and my opinion carries some weight im not some tuppeny-happenny fly by night sleep by day dooshbag ,  wfp is bloomin marvellous for commercial high where standards are mediocre,come on admit it  dont get uppety on me -  be honest now,for once in your life -  you know ,and i know, the school knows ,theres still bird plop residue on that school window 3 floors up , i did 6 yrs wfp for a big firm in the city  so i do know

 but for homes where faultless standards are required by the nitpicker  trad is the leader


;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 23, 2014, 07:47:31 am
i do them over conservatry with a trad pole, now im the first to admit its not a very good job - hands up, listen to me," its not doing a very good job" . but iv told the homeowner and its balanced up by perfect results elsewhere because elsewhere my eyes are only 6 inches away from the glass so i can see a smidgen of plop and pick it off  with a nail if need be .

  theres a phenomenon where folk who hav spent a pot of money then justify it to themselves so they can relax , its called the blinkers phenomenon,   horses pulling a dray cart wear them so they dont get worried if they see trouble coming their way .  

  
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: heath verrall on May 23, 2014, 07:56:10 am
;D seriously, if you really look very closely in brilliant sunshine - it's crap!

Looks superb from four feet away though

Rinse longer ;)
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Dave Willis on May 23, 2014, 07:59:15 am
Which kind off takes me back to my original post. Everybody thinks the results of wfp are fantastic even the customers are fooled by the gleaming frames. However, get a really bright day or look very closely under artificial light and it's pretty poor. I can always spot something on wfp glass -and not just my own.

Do a gutter clean, then get the ladders out for a close look too. Get the ladders out and check the top window cills - rubbish normally.

Don't get me wrong I'll never change wfp is here to stay but overall it's poor and incredibly wasteful.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: dazmond on May 23, 2014, 08:00:10 am
i do them over conservatry with a trad pole, now im the first to admit its not a very good job - hands up, listen to me," its not doing a very good job" . but iv told the homeowner and its balanced up by perfect results elsewhere because elsewhere my eyes are only 6 inches away from the glass so i can see a smidgen of plop and pick it off  with a nail if need be .

  theres a phenomenon where folk who hav spent a pot of money then justify it to themselves so they can relax , its called the blinkers phenomenon,   horses pulling a dray cart wear them so they dont get worried if they see trouble coming their way .  

  

this is a wind up surely!

i was trad for 17 years mate.yes up and down the ladder 100+ times a day just to clean an upper window!

i spend more on equipment now but earn far more money that easily covers my extra costs.im still £8,000-£10,000 up a year AFTER running costs are deducted.safer and work fewer hours than 100% trad.

its the best thing i ever did getting off the ladders
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: dazmond on May 23, 2014, 08:04:51 am
bruce its all about money mate and how much work(and the type) you can clean from the safety of the ground.as long as you do an acceptable job and get paid and the customers happy.

thats all that counts mate. ;) :)
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Ronnie Bryce on May 23, 2014, 08:08:30 am
How many times now over the year's have we had someone come on and say how terrible wfp is? then 2 year's later they have a van and system on the go and saying how they wished they had done it sooner. It must be scores of them.

I recon this chap is going this route. He just does not know it yet.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: G Griffin on May 23, 2014, 08:11:19 am
Cleaning by hand is better, obviously,  whether trad or water fed. Working with a pole has it's limitations.
But so does working with a ladder.

I do think Dave has a point though. Maybe a better way of cleaning than with a wfp will be developed some day.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 23, 2014, 08:12:08 am
i do them over conservatry with a trad pole, now im the first to admit its not a very good job - hands up, listen to me," its not doing a very good job" . but iv told the homeowner and its balanced up by perfect results elsewhere because elsewhere my eyes are only 6 inches away from the glass so i can see a smidgen of plop and pick it off  with a nail if need be .

  theres a phenomenon where folk who hav spent a pot of money then justify it to themselves so they can relax , its called the blinkers phenomenon,   horses pulling a dray cart wear them so they dont get worried if they see trouble coming their way .  

  

 ;D

You stay the way you are Bruce. It obviously works for you.

My business DEFINITELY works for me. I get a lot of new customers from trad cleaners when they see what a thorough job I do and I get lots of new customers from recommendations, I also check my work regularly so I know it's up to standard.

Each to their own.

All I can say is that I've done both. WFP is the method for me and all my customers.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: andyM on May 23, 2014, 08:13:58 am
how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now

I know right!

Ladder marks in people's lawns, marks on window ledges, dirt left in frames and seals, front doors not properly washed down, not being able to clean windows above conservatories or dorma windows or veluxs and so not being able to give my customers a thorough job.



 

And don't even mention the bamboo slithers in door locks!
Eh Robert?..........sorry er Bruce.  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 23, 2014, 08:18:51 am
at the end of the day ,at  the end of the bamboo sliver,  does it really matter eh .   why do folk bicker  and then admit on the forums theyve burnt all the gear on a barbie, whats that phenomenon called ,you wont find it in any online dictionary i do know that
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: G Griffin on May 23, 2014, 08:42:05 am
I still say, trad is better than water fed-all things considered-but a pole is better than a ladder. But a pole isn't the best for trad. You have to compromise whichever method you choose.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Mick Kent on May 23, 2014, 09:00:30 am
Wfp is superior on glass if done properly. Using 000ppm and doing a thorough clean will get spotless results in a lot less time than trad and also its a lot safer method than trad.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 23, 2014, 12:34:53 pm
There is no getting through to some people Mick, forget it!  ::)roll
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: PoleKing on May 23, 2014, 02:27:27 pm
how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now

I know right!

Ladder marks in people's lawns, marks on window ledges, dirt left in frames and seals, front doors not properly washed down, not being able to clean windows above conservatories or dorma windows or veluxs and so not being able to give my customers a thorough job.



 

And don't even mention the bamboo slithers in door locks!
Eh Robert?..........sorry er Bruce.  ;D

It's not Robert, it's Smithie. Surely.
It's incomprehensible.
Ill written.
Ill thought out argument
It's like he never left.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: SeanK on May 23, 2014, 04:12:25 pm
I spent 2 years trying to achieve perfection using wfp, nearly went mental and lost a fortune
faffing about trying this and that.
Once I accepted that it wasn't possible on every type of window and that customers didn't really
care as long as they where off a reasonable standard that things then changed.
Yes its a far from perfect way to clean windows but it works for me so I wont be changing anytime soon.
Good luck to anybody who believes that wfp achieves perfection every time because at the end of the
day it doesn't matter.

Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 23, 2014, 05:12:27 pm
how much did u lose ? 
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Joey Eastwood on May 23, 2014, 08:49:47 pm
Never used wfp but iv took over a few houses that have been done with a pole for years, corners of the sills where grey and the very corners of the windows had a build up of dirt. I think it would be hard to completely perfectly clean a top floor window from the ground
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Clever Forum Name on May 23, 2014, 09:36:29 pm
Never used wfp but iv took over a few houses that have been done with a pole for years, corners of the sills where grey and the very corners of the windows had a build up of dirt. I think it would be hard to completely perfectly clean a top floor window from the ground

Thats a typical bad wfp cleaner then ;)
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Joey Eastwood on May 23, 2014, 09:48:29 pm
how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now

I know right!

Ladder marks in people's lawns, marks on window ledges, dirt left in frames and seals, front doors not properly washed down, not being able to clean windows above conservatories or dorma windows or veluxs and so not being able to give my customers a thorough job.

I could never go back to trad for this reason.

 

I'm trad and do all of the above
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 23, 2014, 10:13:11 pm
how anybody  turning out shoddy work can sleep at night is beyond me.   i spose you get used to it .  i couldnt go wfp because of this reason  

this country used to have a real pride in what we made/how we did it.    not now

I know right!

Ladder marks in people's lawns, marks on window ledges, dirt left in frames and seals, front doors not properly washed down, not being able to clean windows above conservatories or dorma windows or veluxs and so not being able to give my customers a thorough job.

I could never go back to trad for this reason.

 

I'm trad and do all of the above

Not sure if serious? Lol

You leave marks in lawns and on ledges. Leave dirt on frames and seals. That's the point I was making....

And there is no way anyone trad can clean a third storey dorma window. Or third story Velux's. Town house type.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 23, 2014, 10:17:25 pm
Had a customer text me tonight to say thankyou for the great job I done on his windows. It just rubber stamps it for me that wfp in the correct hands is the only proper method of window cleaning .
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 23, 2014, 10:33:41 pm
Had a customer text me tonight to say thankyou for the great job I done on his windows. It just rubber stamps it for me that wfp in the correct hands is the only proper method of window cleaning .

+1

I get plenty of tips, and thank you texts.

WFP if done correctly is flawless and gives a better finish.

Most of the trad guys are 2 weekly and that's why they don't like WFP. Gives the customer better value for money which hurts their pockets.  :D

I think I just like winding people up on topics like this.   :P
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: J.D on May 24, 2014, 12:20:34 am
Keep it going jonny!  ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Jonny 87 on May 24, 2014, 12:30:29 am
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: 8weekly on May 24, 2014, 06:07:29 am
I had a cancellation this week because the "pole isn't for her". It makes a "terrible mess". "Water everywhere". I actually think it was because it was the first time she was at home and it was too quick.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Bruce Woodley on May 24, 2014, 06:11:47 am
i believe there wud be a market for a water catcher cum umbrella for wfp .  an assistant would catch all the dirty runoff using a large upturned 6 sided umbrella mounted on a pole  

or possibly upturned umbrella mounted on a pole fixed on to a bicycle

 this would be very good to watch for bystanders , and hence drive extra trade to your business .
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: andyM on May 24, 2014, 06:54:21 am
i believe there wud be a market for a water catcher cum umbrella for wfp .  an assistant would catch all the dirty runoff using a large upturned 6 sided umbrella mounted on a pole  

or possibly upturned umbrella mounted on a pole fixed on to a bicycle

 this would be very good to watch for bystanders , and hence drive extra trade to your business .

Brilliant!
You could be on to something there Bobby/Robert/Bruce.  :D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Window Lickers on May 24, 2014, 07:47:39 am
. . . Smiffy.
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: Don Kee on May 24, 2014, 07:52:05 am
Smiff's back!!!!! ;D ;D
Woooo hoooooo  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Into my eighth year now and still amazed at wfp
Post by: G Griffin on May 24, 2014, 10:37:33 am
Smithie was wfp.