Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: edward1 on May 15, 2014, 06:35:46 pm
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does anyone have one that I can have please
driscolleddie@yahoo.co.uk
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Can 1 be sent to me? I wouldn't mid taking a look out of curiously
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Would You work on a contract that gave no certainty?
How long would you expect someone to stay on it ?
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Would You work on a contract that gave no certainty?
How long would you expect someone to stay on it ?
I'm heading to Australia and will be taking a casual window cleaning job which
is basically 0 hour.
I don't see an issue with it you get paid for the work you do ;)
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Would You work on a contract that gave no certainty?
How long would you expect someone to stay on it ?
Yes I would
And as long as they wanted too
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I gave up window cleaning in december, I was offered a job on a zero hour contract, I turned it down because they would not even give a clue on how many hours a week if any could be guessed at, on the other hand I was offered another job on a zero hour contract for another firm, however they spelt it out to me, that in the last year only eight days were lost not working for other zero hour employees, I get full holiday pay, sick, training etc, they even sent me on courses they paid for and I was paid in full while I was on them, in the next few months I have 19 days holiday booked and I will be paid in full for them all, I was happy to take the job as although I had the qualification to do the job I have sod all experience, as long as I don't mess up in the next few months I expect to be on a normal contract, oh and I contribute to the company pension as well.
there are good and bad companies out there, if you want to employ on a zero hour contract make sure you are a good one ;)
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I gave up window cleaning in december, I was offered a job on a zero hour contract, I turned it down because they would not even give a clue on how many hours a week if any could be guessed at, on the other hand I was offered another job on a zero hour contract for another firm, however they spelt it out to me, that in the last year only eight days were lost not working for other zero hour employees, I get full holiday pay, sick, training etc, they even sent me on courses they paid for and I was paid in full while I was on them, in the next few months I have 19 days holiday booked and I will be paid in full for them all, I was happy to take the job as although I had the qualification to do the job I have sod all experience, as long as I don't mess up in the next few months I expect to be on a normal contract, oh and I contribute to the company pension as well.
there are good and bad companies out there, if you want to employ on a zero hour contract make sure you are a good one ;)
Reckon that sums it up perfectly
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yes I would and I do work without any contract
I don't intend to screw anyone over .I don't have permanent contracts myself.most of the contract work I do gives the customer one month termination .and the domestic customers can stop anytime they like .
so that's how I need to work with anyone else.however I have guys working for me who have done so for more than 10 yrs .
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I employ people on zero hour and treat them fairly and give as much as possible to them. You will always get haters on here.
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neil ,can I have a copy of your contract .please
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I employ people on zero hour and treat them fairly and give as much as possible to them. You will always get haters on here.
How is someone being a "hater" because they think zero hours contracts are unfair on the employee? :-\
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
They're not.
SOME employees dislike them. Usually the lazy ones.
And unions? Anyone in a union is a douche.
A union is run by douches to protect feckless douches.
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All self-employed are effectively on zero hour anyway.
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Let me know your email I'll send it over. What I won't do is debate with someone over a zero hours contract so go find someone else because it bores me senseless! People don't like them, people do. It's life, get over it.
If you really want me to I'll edit the term 'hater' to 'someone who doesn't agree with them' if that would make you feel better? :D
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I think zero hour contracts are great.
Instead of having to give someone a guaranteed wage for 40 hours a week every week of the year with all that sick pay, holiday pay, job security nonsense, I just get to call on a them when I want. Not when they want.
When it suits me, not them.
If they don't want the hours I've got lots of other people I can call on instead.
My staff must like it too because I never hear any of them complain about it.
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Zero contracts should be against the law!
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Zero contracts should be against the law!
No they shouldn't they can benefit both parties as mentioned above, anyone who cleans residential propertys are effectively on zero hour contracts
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I think zero hour contracts are great.
Instead of having to give someone a guaranteed wage for 40 hours a week every week of the year with all that sick pay, holiday pay, job security nonsense, I just get to call on a them when I want. Not when they want.
When it suits me, not them.
If they don't want the hours I've got lots of other people I can call on instead.
My staff must like it too because I never hear any of them complain about it.
Let's be honest, any that are waiting for your call and can work if they want to or not when you call must be virtually unemployable so I think it must work well for you.
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I think jackiew was being sarcastic ;D
by the way it is a myth that employees are not entitled to holiday pay if on a zero hour contract, they are and if not the company is breaking the law, the holiday entitlement is worked out on a pro rata basis
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
They're not.
SOME employees dislike them. Usually the lazy ones.
And unions? Anyone in a union is a douche.
A union is run by douches to protect feckless douches.
Dirty you are talking cobblers mate! ;D wthout the sacrifices many have
made one fighting to set up the unions in the first place and secondly
then unions fighting for freedom from what was virtual servitude, many of
us wouldnt have the freedom of choice of work that we have now.
Yes unions have made mistakes but on the whole they have been
good thing especially from where they raised the average working
slave from.
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neil my email is driscolleddie@yahoo.co.uk
thank you
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
They're not.
SOME employees dislike them. Usually the lazy ones.
And unions? Anyone in a union is a douche.
A union is run by douches to protect feckless douches.
Dirty you are talking cobblers mate! ;D wthout the sacrifices many have
made one fighting to set up the unions in the first place and secondly
then unions fighting for freedom from what was virtual servitude, many of
us wouldnt have the freedom of choice of work that we have now.
Yes unions have made mistakes but on the whole they have been
good thing especially from where they raised the average working
slave from.
Nope.
Every single person I have ever met who is affiliated to a is either workshy, a trouble maker or a little hitler or all 3.
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I really can't understand this debate. If you don't like them then go sit on your high horse and don't use them, because your talking to a brick wall!
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
They're not.
SOME employees dislike them. Usually the lazy ones.
And unions? Anyone in a union is a douche.
A union is run by douches to protect feckless douches.
Dirty you are talking cobblers mate! ;D wthout the sacrifices many have
made one fighting to set up the unions in the first place and secondly
then unions fighting for freedom from what was virtual servitude, many of
us wouldnt have the freedom of choice of work that we have now.
Yes unions have made mistakes but on the whole they have been
good thing especially from where they raised the average working
slave from.
Nope.
Every single person I have ever met who is affiliated to a is either workshy, a trouble maker or a little hitler or all 3.
Im not talking about individuals ;D im talking about the overall good
labour unions have done since there inception they raised our working standards
and help give us freedom of choice,we can always go back to the ways
before with third world sweat shop standards and your kids could be
sweeping chimneys ;D
Without these people who fought for our work freedom raising
standards conditions choice giving the working man some power i guarantee most of us wouldnt be here
moaning and being able to decide our own work futures(self employment)
the system as it stood wouldnt allow it.
Yes there are arseholes in unions but there are also many workshy
arseholes at management level and i have personally met more of
the latter over the years.
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I really can't understand this debate. If you don't like them then go sit on your high horse and don't use them, because your talking to a brick wall!
Let the men talk and go back to your rocking horse, boy. ;D
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If zero hour contracts are so good for employers why are they disliked so much by employees and unions. Disgusting way this country is going >:(
They're not.
SOME employees dislike them. Usually the lazy ones.
And unions? Anyone in a union is a douche.
A union is run by douches to protect feckless douches.
Dirty you are talking cobblers mate! ;D wthout the sacrifices many have
made one fighting to set up the unions in the first place and secondly
then unions fighting for freedom from what was virtual servitude, many of
us wouldnt have the freedom of choice of work that we have now.
Yes unions have made mistakes but on the whole they have been
good thing especially from where they raised the average working
slave from.
Nope.
Every single person I have ever met who is affiliated to a is either workshy, a trouble maker or a little hitler or all 3.
Im not talking about individuals ;D im talking about the overall good
labour unions have done since there inception they raised our working standards
and help give us freedom of choice,we can always go back to the ways
before with third world sweat shop standards and your kids could be
sweeping chimneys ;D
Without these people who fought for our work freedom raising
standards conditions choice giving the working man some power i guarantee most of us wouldnt be here
moaning and being able to decide our own work futures(self employment)
the system as it stood wouldnt allow it.
Yes there are arseholes in unions but there are also many workshy
arseholes at management level and i have personally met more of
the latter over the years.
I'm younger than you Gaz.
Not had any if that on my radar.
All the union boys I know are douches.
One tw@ I knew, been a chippie for 30 odd years.
Took a job at the college where I taught.
A year later, tries to sue the college, for million(s?), saying it gave him lung cancer from working with MDF.
Went on for ages. Made the office (not the classes) really awkward.
That's the most recent one but over the years, I've known loads of 'em.
All joinery based admittedly. Perhaps that's the reason...?
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For a minority of people zero contracts are spot on. Why? Because the employee may not have to turn up to work if they don't want to/it's not convenient.
Say someone was starting up a business and just wanted some extra pin money on the side, then a zero hour contract might be just what they're looking for. Work when it's available, but the option not to work if they've got something on.
But if you've a family and bills to pay, a zero hour contract is probably not suitable for you.
The problem seems to be that it's an employers market and that they can play on the desperation of the desperate.
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Dont get me wrong diry ive come across plenty of those twonks
over the years,you always get bad eggs in any organisation.
I was just talking about the overall history since the late19th
century when unions were decriminlised in this country and i know
im older than you but not that much you cheeky fecker! ;D
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Dont get me wrong diry ive come across plenty of those twonks
over the years,you always get bad eggs in any organisation.
I was just talking about the overall history since the late19th
century when unions were decriminlised in this country and i know
im older than you but not that much you cheeky fecker! ;D
When you were working in the 19th century did they help you out of a fix? ;D
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And not that much older?
You could be my dad ;D :o
I was 32, 3 weeks ago.
Tamsin sent me out for nappies and a bottle of gin this afternoon.
I got ID'd! (For the gin, not the nappies ;D)
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And not that much older?
You could be my dad ;D :o
I was 32, 3 weeks ago.
Tamsin sent me out for nappies and a bottle of gin this afternoon.
I got ID'd! (For the gin, not the nappies ;D)
im 46 nearly not quite young man ;D
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Dont get me wrong diry ive come across plenty of those twonks
over the years,you always get bad eggs in any organisation.
I was just talking about the overall history since the late19th
century when unions were decriminlised in this country and i know
im older than you but not that much you cheeky fecker! ;D
When you were working in the 19th century did they help you out of a fix? ;D
Hey less of that i get enough of that from my 22yrd old and 16 yr old
ya cheeky young whippersnapper ;D
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Lol.
You love it.
Makes you feel young. X
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Lol.
You love it.
Makes you feel young. X
You will get there one day,believe me it aint so good when both your
lads are over 6ft and pat you on the head and give you cheek and
i can no longer kill the bleeders because i can no longer catch them ;D
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Lol.
You love it.
Makes you feel young. X
You will get there one day,believe me it aint so good when both your
lads are over 6ft and pat you on the head and give you cheek and
i can no longer kill the bleeders because i can no longer catch them ;D
Yup. I know. I was taller than my dad when I hit 14. (He's 5'10)
My eldest is 3&1/2 but wears aged 6 clothes, his best little friend is nearly 7 but Bailey is only 2 inches shorter than him.
Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
God help me.
(Least the little fella has his Mum's temperament.)
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ???
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For a minority of people zero contracts are spot on. Why? Because the employee may not have to turn up to work if they don't want to/it's not convenient.
Don't know if you are trying to be clever or sarcastic or summat but you seem to have completely missed the point of a zero hour contract. Businesses are not going to give someone a contract that says: I'll pay you £x per hour, turn up when you can be arsed. That's moronic.
The employee is not going to get to choose whether they turn up to work or not. That's called a "no contract whatsoever contract".
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Don't know if you are trying to be clever or sarcastic or summat but you seem to have completely missed the point of a zero hour contract. Businesses are not going to give someone a contract that says: I'll pay you £x per hour, turn up when you can be arsed. That's moronic.
The employee is not going to get to choose whether they turn up to work or not. That's called a "no contract whatsoever contract".
Soupy, you've got the certainty of an idiot. Things aren't as clear cut as you'd like to think.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-30_https-wwwcipdcouk-binarie_zps27011e03.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-30_https-wwwcipdcouk-binarie_zps27011e03.jpg.html)
https://www.cipd.co.uk/binaries/6426%20Zero-hours%20contract%20guide%20(WEB).pdf
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Ha. A press release from an HR firm? Really?
Perhaps there is an industry where it's feasible to let employees work whenever they like. Dunno what that is but it ain't window cleaning.
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Ha. A press release from an HR firm? Really?
Perhaps there is an industry where it's feasible to let employees work whenever they like. Dunno what that is but it ain't window cleaning.
**SIGH** Really?
Okay then, here's a gov.uk website:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/gov1_zps0446ad73.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/gov1_zps0446ad73.jpg.html)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267634/bis-13-1275-zero-hours-employment-contracts-FINAL.pdf
Now go and stand in the corner and try not to stick any crayons up your nose.
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Ha. A press release from an HR firm? Really?
Perhaps there is an industry where it's feasible to let employees work whenever they like. Dunno what that is but it ain't window cleaning.
**SIGH** Really?
Okay then, here's a gov.uk website:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/gov1_zps0446ad73.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/gov1_zps0446ad73.jpg.html)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267634/bis-13-1275-zero-hours-employment-contracts-FINAL.pdf
Now go and stand in the corner and try not to stick any crayons up your nose.
Although in reality if the employee turns down the work they are unlikely to get offered more. The contract doesn't really give the employee any recourse in that case. You are both right. :D
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I would agree that there are probably a small minority of workers for whom zero hour contracts work well - though that would usualy be someone who isn't dependent upon having a regular income.
I think the worst example of such a contract was one of the airlines a few years ago who had many pilots on such contracts. The stipulation that I believed was very wrong was the one that stated they could not work for another airline while under such a contract. This thing should slice both ways. If you can't promise people regular work then you can't complain when they top up their income elsewhere - a situation that may make them unavailable when you need them.
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ??? Me...(sometimes you should use your tiddly brain Toshimoto)
He will.
It's funny, everyone seems to like to tell me their opinion on the car I drive, the money I make, the house, the kids, my faith. I wonder why...(rhetorical Tosh, don't bother...)
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ??? Me...(sometimes you should use your tiddly brain Toshimoto)
He will.
It's funny, everyone seems to like to tell me their opinion on the car I drive, the money I make, the house, the kids, my faith. I wonder why...(rhetorical Tosh, don't bother...)
Mine was a rhetorical question too. ;)
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ??? Me...(sometimes you should use your tiddly brain Toshimoto)
He will.
It's funny, everyone seems to like to tell me their opinion on the car I drive, the money I make, the house, the kids, my faith. I wonder why...(rhetorical Tosh, don't bother...)
Mine was a rhetorical question too. ;)
So you did...
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ???
Bentley is an old English name that became more popular in Victorian times after dickens character Bentley Drummle in great expectations
Why do you need to be so judgmental and ignorant to a mans choice of name for his son....If you don't like it can you not keep your negative opinions to yourself
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Why do you need to be so judgmental and ignorant to a mans choice of name for his son....If you don't like it can you not keep your negative opinions to yourself
Ah, you're being judgemental now. I was just winding up Poleking; fishing for a bite. I don't really care if he calls his kids Chardonay 'n' stuff.
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Ha. You are a silly boy.
Phone conversation:
Employer: hi I need you in to work tomorrow.
0 hour employee: I can't I'm busy.
Employer: well, you can &%£+% you %f#?/£ little &%£&j?&.
Click.
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Ha. You are a silly boy.
Phone conversation:
Employer: hi I need you in to work tomorrow.
0 hour employee: I can't I'm busy.
Employer: well, you can &%£+% you %f#?/£ little &%£&j?&.
Click.
It's no good calling me silly, I just provided the information from gov.uk. You're the one that thinks zero hour contracts are something else.
As with any contract there needs to be some kind of symbiotic relationship, otherwise they'll fail. If an employer messes around an employee it'll fail and if an employee messes around the employer, it'll fail.
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Spot on Tosh.....
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Howsthat? The information you provided clearly states that there is no legal definition of a zero hour contract. As 100% of all zero hour contracts will be written by or for the employer there won't be any that say the employee can work when they like. Certainly not in the window cleaning industry.
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Howsthat? The information you provided clearly states that there is no legal definition of a zero hour contract. As 100% of all zero hour contracts will be written by or for the employer there won't be any that say the employee can work when they like. Certainly not in the window cleaning industry.
Then they won't be zero hour contracts, they'll be something else.
From gov.uk:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg.html)
Don't shoot me, matey, I'm just providing the information.
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Phone conversation:
Employer: hi I need you in to work tomorrow.
0 hour employee: I can't I'm busy.
Employer: well, you can &%£+% you %f#?/£ little &%£&j?&.
Click.
Next phone call:
"Hello, is this the CAB? Yes, thank you, I've just been unfairly dismissed by my employer and I want compensation."
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How long have you worked there?
Less than 2 years?
Click.
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How long have you worked there?
Less than 2 years?
Click.
Keep chucking in them red herrings, matey. ;D
Or you could just admit that you don't really know what you're talking about?
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Anyway, why would you dismiss someone on a zero hour contract? No need really, if you think about it...
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Anyway, why would you dismiss someone on a zero hour contract? No need really, if you think about it...
Yes, but I gave a scenario based on the scenario you provided. As I said earlier, there has to be some symbiotic relationship in any contract otherwise it's going to fail.
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Don't get me wrong I ain't no leftie, I think zero hour contracts are perfectly workable for a motivated employee. To suggest that there is "no obligation" for an employee on a zero hour contract to accept work is a bit naive.
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To suggest that there is "no obligation" for an employee on a zero hour contract to accept work is a bit naive.
I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying the government says just that:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg.html)
Notice the 'individual is not obliged to accept any work offered' bit. What is it about that, that you can't understand?
Yeh, the employer may not offer any further work, but the employee is not under any obligation. If a contract of employment would differ significantly from this, then it wouldn't be a zero hour contract as it's understood in it's general term.
It would be something different.
Comprende?
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the reality of a 0 hre contract is that you give the guy work as long as you have the work to give and as long as the work is done as it should and so on .
it gives flexibility to both sides .
why should an employer be tied to guaranteeing someone a job.if the employee is right and does the job as he should he has no problems.and the employer has no problems.
I have been messed about by employees many times and before you know it yopu are working for them .
I cant guarantee work ,if the work isn't there ,so a 0 hr seems to support this.
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Herein lies the problem with zero hour contracts. It can be written by the employer to seem fair, no obligation from either party. As Tish pointed out, by definition that is how they are written.
In reality they can be used by an employer: you work for me when I say or no more work for you sonny bob.
For window cleaning it is ideal. Weather issues can mean long periods of no work, cutting out the wage bill is a massive overhead gone. I have no problem with zero hour contracts, most employers are fair. Some however are not.
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So edward1, if an employee of yours is a no show on Monday morning 'cause he couldn't be arsed getting out his bed, what do you do? He has no obligation to work.
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Or you have a rush job on, needs to be done asap but your employee refuses 'cause he is working somewhere else?
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I'll tell you what I'd do. Nothing. It wouldn't happen. Zero hour contract or not he'd have an obligation to work.
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I'll tell you what I'd do. Nothing. It wouldn't happen. Zero hour contract or not he'd have an obligation to work.
Well, in the general sense of what a zero hour contract is, that wouldn't be a zero hour contract. If your employee has an obligation, that wouldn't fit the general criteria which is:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2014-05-18_08-43_https-wwwgovuk-government_zps7eb29a7a.jpg.html)
If you employ on a 'zero hour' basis, can you post the pertinent wording from the contract you use? I'd be interested to read it. Maybe your contract is something other than a zero hour contract and you're just getting confused?
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It wouldn't matter what it said.
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It wouldn't matter what it said.
I think that's probably the closest admission that you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about that we'll get. ;D
I do understand your sentiment though.
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I remember being wrong once. 1996 it was.
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I remember being wrong once. 1996 it was.
Yes, I remember it well. You said it would rain and it didn't. ;D
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Bentley is just 1 but wearing aged 2+ clothes.
They're gonna be big lads. Certainly bigger than me.
Let's hope little Bentley grows into a huge strapping lad; it'll come in useful with a name like that.
Who the heck calls their kid Bentley? ???
Bentley is an old English name that became more popular in Victorian times after dickens character Bentley Drummle in great expectations
Why do you need to be so judgmental and ignorant to a mans choice of name for his son....If you don't like it can you not keep your negative opinions to yourself
[/quote
Thanks for having my back Alfie.
No worries though, me & tosh frequently have these kind of discussions.
usually around alcohol or religion. or both.
The former he knew about, then gave it up 'cause he's a wuss. the latter he knows nothing about but google tells him all he needs to know.
He makes me smile though. Usually when he does.
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Why would any employee commit to an employer on zero hour contract when anything better comes along? It's a no brainer :o