Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mick Kent on May 03, 2014, 06:09:18 pm
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I cant find any reviews of them anywhere,
Are they any good?
My water pressure is 50 psi and 300 ppm on a good day unpumped but id prob get a booster pump as well,
I like the fact its compact and straight forward to use.
Any reviews or advice please on it??.
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Alex should be online soon to answer your question :)
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Expensive for what they are in my opinion.
Its basically a single or double 21-inch axeon HF5 membrane with pre-filters. You can have either HF4 or HF5. (HF5 is better for lower pressures IMO)
These membranes are half the size of good-old 4040 membranes, and so produce about half the output.
In other words you'd need 2x 21 inch membranes to give the same output as a single 4040 membrane.
The EZ pure kit with 2 membranes on costs £758 plus vat as shown here:
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/-EZ-Pure--Commercial-RO-HF5---Kit1-EZ_PURE_RO_KIT2_HF5.html (http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/-EZ-Pure--Commercial-RO-HF5---Kit1-EZ_PURE_RO_KIT2_HF5.html)
BUT
You can get a 4040 HF5 kit with pre-filters from Gapswater for only £466 plus vat, as shown here (top item):
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Reverse-osmosis-kits-for-window-cleaning2.html (http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Reverse-osmosis-kits-for-window-cleaning2.html)
Also I don't think Gardiner make them, I think they're made by Reach Higher Ground in america (which is probably why they are so expensive).
Personally I don't like these units, the 4040 kits are way cheaper IMO.
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Expensive for what they are in my opinion.
Its basically a single or double 21-inch axeon HF5 membrane with pre-filters. You can have either HF4 or HF5. (HF5 is better for lower pressures IMO)
These membranes are half the size of good-old 4040 membranes, and so produce about half the output.
In other words you'd need 2x 21 inch membranes to give the same output as a single 4040 membrane.
The EZ pure kit with 2 membranes on costs £758 plus vat as shown here:
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/-EZ-Pure--Commercial-RO-HF5---Kit1-EZ_PURE_RO_KIT2_HF5.html (http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/-EZ-Pure--Commercial-RO-HF5---Kit1-EZ_PURE_RO_KIT2_HF5.html)
BUT
You can get a 4040 HF5 kit with pre-filters from Gapswater for only £466 plus vat, as shown here (top item):
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Reverse-osmosis-kits-for-window-cleaning2.html (http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Reverse-osmosis-kits-for-window-cleaning2.html)
Also I don't think Gardiner make them, I think they're made by Reach Higher Ground in america (which is probably why they are so expensive).
Personally I don't like these units, the 4040 kits are way cheaper IMO.
They are not the cheapest options I would agree with you. So if price is important then the Gaps Water kit you have mentioned is a cheaper option.
The reason that there is a such a price difference is that the EZ-Pure twin-membrane kit you have mentioned has triple housings and a commercial capacity carbon pre-filter with a 350,000 litre life. Both kit's components (Gaps and GPS) are made in the US so quality is good and both use quality Axeon membranes.
Why do we sell these kits instead of a cheaper single Champ housing based kit in 40" size?
Twin 21" membranes are actually more efficient in use than a single 40" membrane.
They are also very space efficient compared to the 40" champ housings which allows for tighter packaging of a system especially when used in a vehicle system.
We prefer the quick-release head system on these compared to the Champ Housings heads.
We can supply the EZ-Pure housings in 40" (and 30"), but have not seen the need to do so as we really are not trying to cover every base in water purification - With firms like Gapswater on the market there is no need for us to supply every option.
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I cant find any reviews of them anywhere,
Are they any good?
My water pressure is 50 psi and 300 ppm on a good day unpumped but id prob get a booster pump as well,
I like the fact its compact and straight forward to use.
Any reviews or advice please on it??.
With 50psi, an HF5 based system would probably suit you although using a booster pump would be a good idea to improve water quality and reduce resin use.
There are a lot of these in use on the crash-tested Grippamax systems - so maybe someone with one of these systems will give a review.
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Cheers lads. I have a 4040 setup already which needs membrane and filters replaced which at over £300 i was tempted to just buy a new ro system as mine is old.
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Cheers lads. I have a 4040 setup already which needs membrane and filters replaced which at over £300 i was tempted to just buy a new ro system as mine is old.
But once you buy new pre-filters and a membrane it will be as good as new anyway so will be the cheapest option for you at the moment.
If I were you I would do that and buy a decent booster pump with the rest of the money you were considering spending.
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I have the twin version charcoal housing and a single HF5 Ez Pure . with a booster pump on it.. As my water is 300ppm I produce water at 3:1 and at that Im getting 8ppm @110 L / Hour..
Im happy with that..
Just about to automate the system so I always have 900L ready to fill when I come back at night..
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Cheers, ill pop to cleaningspot and just get a new hf5 and some filters.
Didnt know if the ez pure was as good as a normal 4040 or not. Saving myself near £300 ill stick with what i have.
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Twin 21" membranes are actually more efficient in use than a single 40" membrane.
Really?
According to Axeon who make the membranes, they say that their 21 inch membranes, the HF5-4021, have a permeate flow rate (pure water production) of 3780 litres per day
Therefore 2 of them would have a production rate of 3780 x 2 = 7,560 litres per day.
Their SINGLE HF5-4040 membrane has a production rate of 9,450 litres per day.
See for yourself here (on the specifications tab):
http://www.axeonwater.com/AXEON-HF5-Series-Ultra-Low-Energy-Membrane-Elements.html (http://www.axeonwater.com/AXEON-HF5-Series-Ultra-Low-Energy-Membrane-Elements.html)
How then can you claim that 2x21-inch membranes are more efficient than a single 4040 when according to their manufacturer they produce less water?
We prefer the quick-release head system on these compared to the Champ Housings heads.
I suppose that's all down to personal choice, but since you only need to open the housings to change the membranes once every 3-5 years or so, personally I don't think "quick release" is much of an issue here. I also have not found champ housings to be especially "slow release". You whip the snap ring off and pull, not exactly time consuming. Are you sure you really "prefer" them, and it's not just because that's all what Reach Higher Ground supply?
So far the only thing there is to justify that extra £292 is a bigger carbon filter. Since carbon filters are cheap as chips, sorry I just don't see the extra value.
I think the real reason that this EZ-pure is more expensive is because it isn't actually your product, it's "Reach Higher Ground"'s product. You have Reach Higher Ground as a middle man. I would bet the likes of Gaps water etc probably buy the components directly from the manufacturer and then assemble those kits themselves to sell. Here you have Reach Higher Ground buying the components, assembling the "kit" and wholesaling it to you at a profit. You then need to add your own profit on top.
Not having a go, just saying. I don't know why you don't simply order the components from the manufacturer and assemble the kits yourself.
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Twin 21" membranes are actually more efficient in use than a single 40" membrane.
Really?
According to Axeon who make the membranes, they say that their 21 inch membranes, the HF5-4021, have a permeate flow rate (pure water production) of 3780 litres per day
Therefore 2 of them would have a production rate of 3780 x 2 = 7,560 litres per day.
Their SINGLE HF5-4040 membrane has a production rate of 9,450 litres per day.
See for yourself here (on the specifications tab):
http://www.axeonwater.com/AXEON-HF5-Series-Ultra-Low-Energy-Membrane-Elements.html (http://www.axeonwater.com/AXEON-HF5-Series-Ultra-Low-Energy-Membrane-Elements.html)
How then can you claim that 2x21-inch membranes are more efficient than a single 4040 when according to their manufacturer they produce less water?
We prefer the quick-release head system on these compared to the Champ Housings heads.
I suppose that's all down to personal choice, but since you only need to open the housings to change the membranes once every 3-5 years or so, personally I don't think "quick release" is much of an issue here. I also have not found champ housings to be especially "slow release". You whip the snap ring off and pull, not exactly time consuming. Are you sure you really "prefer" them, and it's not just because that's all what Reach Higher Ground supply?
So far the only thing there is to justify that extra £292 is a bigger carbon filter. Since carbon filters are cheap as chips, sorry I just don't see the extra value.
I think the real reason that this EZ-pure is more expensive is because it isn't actually your product, it's "Reach Higher Ground"'s product. You have Reach Higher Ground as a middle man. I would bet the likes of Gaps water etc probably buy the components directly from the manufacturer and then assemble those kits themselves to sell. Here you have Reach Higher Ground buying the components, assembling the "kit" and wholesaling it to you at a profit. You then need to add your own profit on top.
Not having a go, just saying. I don't know why you don't simply order the components from the manufacturer and assemble the kits yourself.
Hi Pete
The figures you are quoting are laboratory figures based on ideal conditions with 25°C water at ideal pressures. We have found that the real world figures can be very different.
However efficiency is not always about production rates - we have found that twin 21" membranes are more efficient at producing water with less waste water and highest quality.
Quoting from Gapswater's own site about the 21" membrane kits - http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Reverse-osmosis-kits-for-window-cleaning2.html
RO Kit with Fibredyne pre-filter - 4" x 21" membrane
If space is at a premium then a 4" x 21" membrane might be preferable. Flow is just over half the flow you would expect from a 4" x 40" membrane but rejection tends to be slightly higher, i.e. you should achieve an improved tds especially when used in conjunction with a fiberdyne CFB-plus pre-filter.
In reality most of our clients do not need the production rate of a twin membrane system and a single 21" RO membrane will produce plenty of water for their needs. The single membrane versions are much cheaper. A twin RO is really only needed, we have found, for those doing a lot of commercial work and who are not able to leave the vehicle filling overnight. Looking at Jim's typical application above he can produce 110 lph from a single 21" membrane - overnight this gives his system the potential to make over 1300 litres.
The main reason we have chosen the EZ-Pure housings, with their unified carbon filter is because of its suitability for the packaging on our crash-tested systems. Because we stock them for these systems, we then also sell them as stand alone components or kits which we put together along with our own Filter Frames (RHG do not supply any of these parts as a kit to us).
Price-wise if you specify a 21" Champ housing, 21" RO membrane, a 20" Jumbo Pentek housing (nearest in size to ours), a 20" Jumbo Fibredyne carbon filter, John Guest fittings, waste valve, and John Guest Tubing, from any supplier (including Gaps) then the price will be much the same as our EZ-Pure single membrane kits, but they will not include a Filter-Frame. The EZ-Pure will also still have about twice the chlorine-reduction capacity of the 20" jumbo filters. In fact if you select the Gapswater 'RO Kit with Fibredyne pre-filter - 4" x 21" membrane' with the 20" jumbo filter you will spend an extra £69.10 compared to our EZ-Pure HF4 Kit1 and you will not have the benefit of the Filtre-Frame to mount it all on.
We are not attempting to please everyone with our RO and water filtration offerings - there is such a large choice on the market that clients can easily shop around if they want to.
It would seem that you are not actually aware about the UK supply market of RO and filter components. Gapswater are a very good and respected firm - however, just like most others, they buy membranes, housings and filters from UK based wholesale firms who import the RO and Filter components in bulk from the US. We also buy a lot of our components from the same wholesale importers that they do. The EZ-Pure unique products (housings, clamps & carbon filters) we buy directly from the US manufacturer and then import in bulk. By doing this we have cut-out the UK wholesaler as a middle-man.
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Alex. Remind me how I back flush one of these Ez Pure things.. Mine must be needing a bit of a flush by now.
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Alex. Remind me how I back flush one of these Ez Pure things.. Mine must be needing a bit of a flush by now.
Ideally they should be flushed for about 3-5mins before each tank fill. Or for about 10 minutes once a week. This will help prolong the life and production rate of the membranes.
To flush you will need to open the valve on the waste pipe, leave open for as long as you want to flush.
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Alex, sorry to hijack the thread but I have a 450gpd system that eats membranes. I've fitted new membranes but three 100gpd ones in the same housings. My ro is extremely slow now - I did expect the output to drop but not by that much.
Should I have changed the restrictor as well?
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Alex, sorry to hijack the thread but I have a 450gpd system that eats membranes. I've fitted new membranes but three 100gpd ones in the same housings. My ro is extremely slow now - I did expect the output to drop but not by that much.
Should I have changed the restrictor as well?
Hi Dave
It does sound like the restrictor needs replacing - it is probably letting too much waste out. You can get new ones from RO-Man I think.
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Dave I've got the 450 ro and mine was running slow when i out new membranes in i i couldn't work out why. I decided to change the 3 pre filters and that was the problem must have had dogey pre filter !!! 👍
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Anyone know the correct restrictor for a 300GPD system?
I have a 550 and a 600 knocking about whatever that means.
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Anyone know the correct restrictor for a 300GPD system?
I have a 550 and a 600 knocking about whatever that means.
http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=restrictor&page=2&product_id=310
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Thanks Alex I've got one of those - I'll swop it over.