Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: 8weekly on April 14, 2014, 05:06:56 pm
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I've been going about 5 years and over that time have had the odd complaint, but in the last couple of months I have had 7 or 8 complaints. On Saturday I cleaned my own windows and the result was very poor. Spotting and a couple of streaks.
My thoughts on the causes centre around a few things. I have tested the TDS and it is 3 in the tank in the van.
"Inspired" by some that say windows can be cleaned really quickly I have been moving towards faster times so that is one possibility. I have been skimping on the rinsing.
But I think the problem is with a sill brush and fan jets. The angle of the jets seems to point upwards on the brush and therefore at times the water is spraying upwards slightly. Also, the jets are constantly getting blocked and water is spraying in an uncontrolled way. I accept it may be my technique with fans and sill brushes.
I always clean the top frame & am usually pretty brave with vents too.
I wondered what people's thoughts were or if anyone had any other ideas?
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Never used fan jets, maybe the sort could be hitting the brickwork ? Go back to pencil jets you know exactly where the jet is going !!!!
I use sill brush with 2mm hexagon pencil jets works well for me !!!! 👍😳😝😬
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Perhaps skimping with the rinsing is your problem.
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Go back to pencil jets you know exactly where the jet is going !!!!
That's what I have done tonight - plus a standard superlite. I noticed the other day also that the sill brush is quite a lot smaller than a normal brush.
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Perhaps skimping with the rinsing is your problem.
Except that I rinse more than some have been showing in their videos. I reckon it's the jets hitting the brickwork.
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8 weekly.
I maybe wrong but I don't think fans and sill brush are a Good combination.
If you have the same sill brush as me white bristles all the same length.
I got a new brush from gardiners flocked double trim and this has fan jets and works a treat.
I think maybe where your rinsing you are holding the brush too far away because you are use to doing that with pencil jets but are soaking all surrounding brickwork maybe.
Also when you rinse maybe rinse with the brush starting at the bottom of the pain and work to the top
This way you will see as your inching to thd top of the glass.
Lee
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I've never used fan Jets, but out of interest, how do people have the spray coming out.....horizontal or vertical?
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You must be a real pro then after 5 years!
4 years on I still can't use fan jets. They are terrible for spotting.
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People seem to get the angle of the sill brush wrong, they think the lower bristles should come in contact with the glass, but they don't, the bottom 3 rows of bristles are for cleaning the sills, the brush should angled so that the top bristles are at 90 deg to the glass and then the jets will be directed horizontally straight at the glass, not spraying upwards.
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People seem to get the angle of the sill brush wrong, they thing the lower bristles should come in contact with the glass, but they don't, the bottom 3 rows of bristles are for cleaning the sills, the brush should angled so that the top bristles are at 90 deg to god glass and then the jets will be directed horizontally straight at the glass, not spraying upwards.
That makes sense.
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Could just be the weather. I had loads of trouble (but no complaints) after the winter storms - brush not cutting through the dirt, corners not cleaning properly and spotting. Seemed to have worked through all the bad ones now only to be presented with Sahara sand >:(
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Could just be the weather. I had loads of trouble (but no complaints) after the winter storms - brush not cutting through the dirt, corners not cleaning properly and spotting. Seemed to have worked through all the bad ones now only to be presented with Sahara sand >:(
I did wonder about that. Trying to speed up at the time of the worst weather probably wasn't my brightest idea.
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I use a sill brush with fans, also clean the top of frames/vents....dont get problems....
if your going to rinse less, really you should have your flow a little higher, or at least rinse on the glass. For me the rinse is more important than scrubbing the window 12,000 times, so when people have said they can spend less time on a window, i took that to mean they scrub it less, but still give it a rinse?
As lee Gls had said, my bottom few rows of the brush dont touch the glass only the sill, so i dont get a problem with the jets pushing the water up as they're at a decent angle...
Also found on the downstairs windows that sometimes rinsing from the side (so the jets are spraying vertically) is better than rinsing infront of the window (jets spraying horizontally)
They were a ballache to get used to though, but now i wouldnt be without them (i use pencils on 45footer for accuracy though)
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Could just be the weather. I had loads of trouble (but no complaints) after the winter storms - brush not cutting through the dirt, corners not cleaning properly and spotting. Seemed to have worked through all the bad ones now only to be presented with Sahara sand >:(
Good point.
I think too much emphasis is placed on rinsing. You can only rinse away what's on the window when it's been broken down. I'm no wfp expert but it's the same with trad. You can squeegee a window off but if the dirt isn't broken down; it leaves a mess.
The scrubbing as is as important as the rinsing if not more so.
Why bother with the brush otherwise?
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I use a sill brush with fans, also clean the top of frames/vents....dont get problems....
if your going to rinse less, really you should have your flow a little higher, or at least rinse on the glass. For me the rinse is more important than scrubbing the window 12,000 times, so when people have said they can spend less time on a window, i took that to mean they scrub it less, but still give it a rinse?
As lee Gls had said, my bottom few rows of the brush dont touch the glass only the sill, so i dont get a problem with the jets pushing the water up as they're at a decent angle...
Also found on the downstairs windows that sometimes rinsing from the side (so the jets are spraying vertically) is better than rinsing infront of the window (jets spraying horizontally)
They were a ballache to get used to though, but now i wouldnt be without them (i use pencils on 45footer for accuracy though)
I have the flow on around 85 on the controller. I wonder though whether the higher flow rate just makes things worse with all the splashing.
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Crickey, i didnt mean that high!!!
Mines usually on around 50 at the moment , will move it to 40 ish if short on water
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I use a sill brush all the time but with pencil jets. Lee is right you need to angle it correctly so only the top of the brush cleans the glass (on leaded I change the angle so the middle of the brush runs over the lead more smoothly). I've used fan jets, but personally i'm not a fan (sorry for the pun). They are good but not for me. If your water pressure is too high then the water bounces back off the glass AND NOT DOWN THE GLASS, LIKE A CURTAIN. I've tried all types of combinations of jets and pencils, sill brushes and not. I think it's just down to how you clean and what you like. They all clean windows but it depends on your technique and what you prefer.
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Gardiners super lite brush. Not sill though. Fan jets. Pump on full bore.
Tap on pole. Which controls when it's appropriate to start the water flowing.
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I use a brodex r 18" with three fan jets , I added a fan jet in the middle of the brush, it's faster and rinses well.
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i swapped to fan jets a few years back after say 12 months i switched back to pencil...there is definitely less complaints and problems with pencil jets on a highish flow
regardless of the brush.IMO
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your all bloody a bunch of amateurs :P :P :P
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You said that your tank TDS is 3. Is this DI water stored in your tank? Or RO being pumped through the di. As if you are using water that's reading anything above 1, your going to get issues; epscially in the strong sunshine.
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You said that your tank TDS is 3. Is this DI water stored in your tank? Or RO being pumped through the di. As if you are using water that's reading anything above 1, your going to get issues; epscially in the strong sunshine.
Marc I have used water with a tds of 12 with no problems and I know there are guys who have went a lot higher.
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hmmm. :-\
really if you are using 'pure' water and it isn't pure. in my opinion theres your issue
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Marc even at 000 ppm your water isn't pure it could still be filtered lower.
You could still have x amount of parts per 10 million so why don't they leave spots ?
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Marc your defo wrong there as I've used water at a Tds reading of 020 no spotting, seems you must be wasting your earnings if your changing resin more often than you should be by keeping your Tds reading at 000 ? ::)roll
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Maybe its where your customers are all 8 weekly and with all the dust and sand particles about they are covering the windows and frames a lot more than 4 weekly cleaning would, with all the dust im imagining you would need to treat many like first cleans to bring them up good without spotting??
Thats what i have found with some of my 8 weekly cleans as i too had a few complaints which when i went back to look could see instantly it was where i didnt scrub and rinse enough.
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Maybe its where your customers are all 8 weekly and with all the dust and sand particles about they are covering the windows and frames a lot more than 4 weekly cleaning would, with all the dust im imagining you would need to treat many like first cleans to bring them up good without spotting??
Thats what i have found with some of my 8 weekly cleans as i too had a few complaints which when i went back to look could see instantly it was where i didnt scrub and rinse enough.
Would agree with this, all my 8 weekly cleans are filthy and covered with a scum that's hard to remove even my 6 weekly
are a lot worse than usual.
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Its just my opinion that's all.
Keeping at 000 is not a waste of money its called due diligence, and minimising risk of complaints.
Its the way I like things done.
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Maybe its where your customers are all 8 weekly and with all the dust and sand particles about they are covering the windows and frames a lot more than 4 weekly cleaning would, with all the dust im imagining you would need to treat many like first cleans to bring them up good without spotting??
Thats what i have found with some of my 8 weekly cleans as i too had a few complaints which when i went back to look could see instantly it was where i didnt scrub and rinse enough.
I think you may well have a point Mick.
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Just an update. Since I switched back, no complaints.
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2 litres per minute flow rate.
Tecbuk brush (awesome for scrubbing)
Decent technique.
Should nearly always be spot free unless it's troublesome windows where you have to adjust your technique.
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I've been going about 5 years and over that time have had the odd complaint, but in the last couple of months I have had 7 or 8 complaints. On Saturday I cleaned my own windows and the result was very poor. Spotting and a couple of streaks.
My thoughts on the causes centre around a few things. I have tested the TDS and it is 3 in the tank in the van.
"Inspired" by some that say windows can be cleaned really quickly I have been moving towards faster times so that is one possibility. I have been skimping on the rinsing.
But I think the problem is with a sill brush and fan jets. The angle of the jets seems to point upwards on the brush and therefore at times the water is spraying upwards slightly. Also, the jets are constantly getting blocked and water is spraying in an uncontrolled way. I accept it may be my technique with fans and sill brushes.
I always clean the top frame & am usually pretty brave with vents too.
I wondered what people's thoughts were or if anyone had any other ideas?
If the angle of the jets are pointing upwards it means that your gooseneck would need adjusting down slightly. The Sill brushes are designed so that the brush jets should be pointing at exactly 90° in use. This will then also allow for correct splay of the brush downwards for Sill cleaning.
If you combine fanjets with a slightly upward pointing angle of brush then it is very possible that any spots are from this. Fanjets always have the tendency to spray around a bit, so need closer rinsing to the glass and being careful not to over spray.
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Just an update. Since I switched back, no complaints.
Is this since you have switched back to pencil jets? These are my favourite as well :)
You would still need to make sure that the angle of the gooseneck is correct though to get the jets spraying at 90° on to the glass for best results.
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Interesting thread.
I've had, I think, 4 complaints in 5 years: 2 the marks were on the inside, 1 was what I thought was a good clean (done with TFR) on a white PVC-framed property, but the glass was not clean when dry, though did clean up nicely on the callback (more later); the 4th I couldn't see what she was on about whether from inside or out ::)roll.
I use a Superlite with pencil jets on an SLX with a swivel Resi-neck. I did use a Vikan sill brush when I started but, with the Xtel pole, it was like swinging a brick on a bamboo cane. My TDS is always 000, but I live in a soft water area and use both an RO and DI; I change my resin every, say, 18 months. My flow is on 65-ish for a first clean, 54 for maintenance cleans.
I always clean vents on a first clean to get as much dirt out as possible, then regularly thereafter. So it's a wet of the window first, then top frame including vent, then sides and with the swivel on the resi-neck the sill. I don't stress about the sill and no-one has ever commented it's not clean - with the right angle a swivel resi-neck will allow them (and many Veluxes) to be cleaned (Veluxes without collapsing the pole to alter the angle). After i've done the frames I clean the window. I rinse off the glass from the top frame, but only the glass. On most first cleans I return to the first upper storey window and rinse again to make sure that all vent muck has been rinsed away. Ditto on ground storeys. (I charge as much as double for a first clean, so I'm covered. I never price from Google).
On the one clean I had a genuine complaint about I have no idea why it was dirty. It wasn't spotting or streaking or vent drips, but it was dirty (more like lead patination, but def not dry TFR or missed windows). Not all windows were affected and it was a bungalow, so it was easy to see it was "clean" when I finished it originally. I used TFR as there was some algae and the frames were mint when I finished I still have no idea what the residue was, but when I cleaned the affected windows again and let them dry they were perfect.
I'd say that the issue was a combination of the factors already raised. Overspray is a big issue - if there is too much power then the water bounces off the glass. I've not found that brickwork gives me any problems, but the (coloured?) render used on many new houses here in Wales does - it's dreadful. I'd suggest a swivel Resi-neck is a cracking piece of kit and would, as some else has said, suggest you can't clean some windows above connies well without one. It also gets you away from a sill brush. I know nothing of fan jets as i've never (nor would I) use them. Why tolerate a TDS above 000 - due diligence and you know it's not the water. Water does change in TDS out of the tap, so this needs to be monitored, especially in hard water areas. Again to deliver a satisfactory clean vents do need to be done - avoiding the top frame is a cop out in my book. Once done maintenance cleans keep them clean.
Glad your issue is all sorted now.
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Alex has a new overspray system coming out soon, I hope this sorts out the rinsing issue for us.
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Alex has a new overspray system coming out soon, I hope this sorts out the rinsing issue for us.
I don't think it is designed for everyday residential cleans. According to the 'teaser' on their website, it is for mainly larger commercial sheets of glass.
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I've been going about 5 years and over that time have had the odd complaint, but in the last couple of months I have had 7 or 8 complaints. On Saturday I cleaned my own windows and the result was very poor. Spotting and a couple of streaks.
My thoughts on the causes centre around a few things. I have tested the TDS and it is 3 in the tank in the van.
"Inspired" by some that say windows can be cleaned really quickly I have been moving towards faster times so that is one possibility. I have been skimping on the rinsing.
But I think the problem is with a sill brush and fan jets. The angle of the jets seems to point upwards on the brush and therefore at times the water is spraying upwards slightly. Also, the jets are constantly getting blocked and water is spraying in an uncontrolled way. I accept it may be my technique with fans and sill brushes.
I always clean the top frame & am usually pretty brave with vents too.
I wondered what people's thoughts were or if anyone had any other ideas?
If the angle of the jets are pointing upwards it means that your gooseneck would need adjusting down slightly. The Sill brushes are designed so that the brush jets should be pointing at exactly 90° in use. This will then also allow for correct splay of the brush downwards for Sill cleaning.
If you combine fanjets with a slightly upward pointing angle of brush then it is very possible that any spots are from this. Fanjets always have the tendency to spray around a bit, so need closer rinsing to the glass and being careful not to over spray.
Yes, I think in the end I decided it was technique. It always struck me as strange as so little bristle is designed for the glass on a sill brush.
To be hones though, after a couple of weeks of am Etreme brush I don't now know how I managed before with the weight. Love them.