Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: John Klucznik on April 10, 2014, 04:24:22 am
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Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssl8exRpHDE&feature=youtu.be
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Hi John I have been using encap system for cleaning more and more recently and have started using Surround encap chemicals. The question is, when going into clean carpets that have previously been cleaned using a detergent rinse. what happens to the residues and any detergent that is already present in the carpet,does encan still work. :-\
David
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Hi John,
That video could only have any validity if it were done by and independent specialist research company and not someone with a clear bias. For all anyone looking at that video knows the carpet on the left could have been doused with dust before the video was taken.
I'm also not sure it is a good idea to knock the competition in that way as it can have as many negative effects as it has positive as it can look as if you are running scared of the competition.
Simon
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Yes John you have a great product let it speak for its self.
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I'm also not sure it is a good idea to knock the competition in that way as it can have as many negative effects as it has positive as it can look as if you are running scared of the competition.
Think it was his respons to something Vac Away said about bonnet pro, then fair enough.
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agree with simon.
concentrate on promoting whats good for your business and products rather than directly slagging off others, all you end up doing is wasting your time responding and fueling an ongoing feud that will take over your life and destroy your integrity. i won't buy from suppliers who resort to slagging off there competitors. i could name the 2 that i dont buy from but most could work it out, it just shows unprofessionalism. and its a shame cos they both have some good products.
thats my take on it for what its worth.
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There is a totally different culture in the States. They are regularly slagging each other on on the various forums etc. We are just too nice.
Oh forgot about the hard floor section on here ;D
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Looks libellous to me, especially as it isn't independent and therefore verifiable research.
Simon
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I think you need to understand that Vacaway have been dishhing all the other encapsulation products on the market including Surround and Releasit. The owner has posted numerous videos on Youtube.
This is the reason John has made this video. It is only libelous if its not true. Don't think John is one who would just sit back and take it.
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So why not just let your product do the talking instead of descending into gutter tactics?
We are the ultimate judges of how good one product is against another as our reputations depend on the quality of what we do for the end user and therefore vote with our product loyalty, but this isn't the good old US of A ;D
If the guy's product is nowhere near as good as Surround, then John is in pole position for future sales, surely?
Simon
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Trouble is Simon the internet is so powerful and your business can be decimated quite easily in such a short time. Sitting back just may not be an option.
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Simon, So I put out a video that all your customers can see that trashes you. What are you going to do about it. Nothing?
I thought about if I should do it or not. I have said for years that dust does occur just like aerosolization happens when applying prespray even from lower pressures. You dont see it unless your in the proper light. Like direct sunlight through a window. I have promoted low drift and ultra low drift tips for years.
As far as the video goes. The info is on his MSDS sheets so its not slander its truth. How many guys look at them and know what their handling day in and day out. And do most know this crap can be absorbed through their skin? He also has trashed my product for years and now he copies it. That deserves a little grief in my book.
Is it a gutter tactic to tell the truth? You are free to decide that. Is it a gutter tactic when chevy says they have a better car then Ford and gives you reasons why? Its just business. Nor is it wrong when you step into the ring and a guy swings at you that you swing back, harder and faster to end the fight.
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One other thought Simon. I told and showed exactly what I did. I don't embellish so you are free to try it yourself if interested. Thats the validity. It is there in the open just like the misleading full strength chem on the glass trick. Mine just happens to be real and not smoke and mirrors.
You may want to read this: http://bonnetpro.com/encapsulation/Hoax_7.8.html
it may help you understand my reasoning a little more. Its never been about desperation but about correcting the nonsense that has spread through our industry with misleading junk science.
I knew you guys in the UK would be all over this. I like that. You get right to the point. So do I.
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Fair play i think - good informative video
Its not surprising the people knocking it are the people who always knock everything to do with low moisture and encap cleaning.
In my opinion, a cleaner should be familiar with all processes and be able to offer them all whether its extraction or LM with skill, experience of them and knowledge of the product. HWE is the only option sometimes, but not always and in some circumstances can be less effective than LM
I have heard people say they dont bonnet or encap ever as the carpets dont look any different after - well thats because they are at fault and not using it correctly or in the right circumstances.
I dont care if some only choose one way and slate others - it just means more business for me and more times i can do jobs they cant and better results and quicker drying times.
If you are blinding yourself into one route all the time and not open to new technology and what it can do its your loss.
I have found Surround an excellent product and that video just gives me more confidence with it.
I laugh when truck mounters blab on about how you need to HWE with a TM or you arent cleaning and then they will sometimes post videos showing how they have cut out most of the cleaning pie and just gone straight in to an unprepped carpet and extracted it with just a one stage extract with super hot water.
Truck Mounters can be just as guilty of mal practice as any other cleaner.
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I don't understand the video, you say their product creates a dust when brushed across.
but should'nt Encap solution detach from the fibre when brushed? otherwise how does the encapsulated soil get removed?
Is'nt their chemical acting exactly how it should by breaking away from the fibre when brushed the same action a vacuum would use.
Yours does not allow anything to come away which must also include the encapsulated soil
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Here is Mike right on cue!!
The Surround is made brittle so it will loosen from the fibre and vac away but wont become airborne dust like the other
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John,
I don't blamed you for being annoyed at the competitors tactics, but you're descending into the gutter by responding in the manner you have.
Anyone looking at that video would say, 'he would say that, wouldn't he?'
Surround is a top class product, so if it's reputation is so important to you wouldn't it be worth getting a proper independent analysis of both products in a controlled environment where the results would be, if not beyond dispute, at least credible?
Simon
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Simon - dont you employ the same tactics when you rubbish portables and LM/encap over truckmounts?
Pot and kettle i think
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Erm, I use all three techniques mate, so no, but nice try ;D
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Lol, but your comments in the past have been exactly like what you are accusing John of
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Like I said I have portables, LM,encap and truck mounts. All of them do a good job in the appropriate circumstances and agree with your earlier post on this thread,
In my opinion, a cleaner should be familiar with all processes and be able to offer them all whether its extraction or LM with skill, experience of them and knowledge of the product. HWE is the only option sometimes, but not always and in some circumstances can be less effective than LM
Indeed I think you will find I've said things almost identical many times in the past.
Btw, what is your name?
Simon
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" I don't understand the video, you say their product creates a dust when brushed across.
but should'nt Encap solution detach from the fibre when brushed? otherwise how does the encapsulated soil get removed?"
Thats a great question. You want to encap and you want it to release but not so easily that it can become airborne or de capsulate the soils.
In my opinion it should take a little more effort to remove the polymer. That is why I did the Surround and the electron microscope test to show how it comes off. Simon would like that one as it shows the lab report. http://bonnetpro.com/encapsulation/T2H_polymer.html
Simon I will throw this at you and if you answer yes I will concede but if your answer is no than you concede to my point of the video demonstration. Fair?
Did you apply the same standard or judgement when you saw the dry down test for a crystallizing polymer? Yes or No?
Did you say it needed a third party independent test? Yes or No?
Did you try it yourself? Yes or No?
If you judged their sales info the same as your judging my test then that's fair. If you required them in your opinion to do the dry down by a third party, then its fair. I would not think that you did. And if you conducted the test yourself, then you can do the same with mine as I exactly told what I did. To me you need third party when the average person cannot conduct the test themselves. Anyone can do this test so I feel third party is not needed. Even if the chems where applied a little heavy they where both applied at the same amount down to fractions of an ounce, so it was equal. Some guys go light and some heavy with solution application especially with a gravity feed machine. so this example showed was happens in this light.
Let me know. Im sure you will. :)
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For what it is worth. I wrote this 2 or three years ago and nobody believed me. Im kinda glad I was attacked as it got me motivated to do this video. Now maybe I will redo it without all the direct finger pointing. I have never really done that before, I would mention a type of product but not the product or the company by name in ads at least not that I recall. But being called out by name that requires a different response. I have never went after Releasit by name because Rick doesn't cross the line. Steve did. Anyway thats all I have to say about it.
You might like this: http://bonnetpro.com/encapsulation/T2H_polymer.html
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John
I must admit like your mini max, I currently use a Chemspec Chemstractor and Rotabrite machine but will be looking for somthing else in the future, maybe your mini max ! How much do they cost and have you any plans to import any to the uk ?
Stuart
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Hi Stuart. I believe your 220 over there, not 110?
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Yes thats night, 240 actualy
saying that I do have a 110v transformer as some jobs request 110 only
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Hi Stuart,
I am working on a newer model. If that one takes off it may be worth Johns time to bring them in. I currently dont make a 220 and without a local distributor it might not be in your best interest should you need a replacement part due to time and shipping cost. I hate to turn away someone but I want my stuff to be a great fit for the people that invest in it and because of our distance apart Im concerned.
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Cheers John