Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: andrew chrysler on March 26, 2006, 03:57:04 pm
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Here we go........
I have sold off my Oven Cleaning gear, and sold one of my valeting vans.
Parked outside I now have 1 escort van, 2 berlingo vans and a multispace. 2 Prochem steempro's, 1 powerpak, 2 Windsor Passports and a rug doctor. Hoses, wands, etc... etc.....
I've followed advice on this forum to buy second hand, and toget training (althoughI will be employing staff to do the actual cleaning, I guess I need to know enough to prevent anyone "pulling the wool over my eyes".
I'm going on the IICRC course in Nottingham and the Express/Prochem course in Manchester, both this April.
What I now need is staff. 3 cleaning technicians, and one sales rep. I am aiming for the commercial market; in my area (North West) there are thousands of hotels, restaurants, nursing homes and caravan parks, so there should be plenty of business about.
Can anyone advise me on the kind of wages I can expect to pay, and has anyone any suggestions about recruitment methods..... I usually use the JobCentre, because it's free, but you get all sorts of applicants to weed out.
Has anyone used a recruitment agency? Are they any good? The only time I used an agency was many years ago, and the member of staff was not exactly a "superstar" if you know what I mean.
I have been thinking of names.... first idea was "Red Carpet", but there's already one of that name on this forum, second thought was "Magic Carpet" but I thought it a bit twee, finally I've settled on "Spruce"
Those who have read some of my other postings will know that I have a caravan park, called "Woodlands", and my wife has a day nursery, called "Tree Tops", so I am continuing with the same theme. I bet www.spruce.com has already been taken, though!
I don't want to get business by undercutting other CC's, that just starts a price war that nobody wins; I just want to charge roughly the same as everyone else, do roughly the same job, and rely on a good rep to generate enough work to keep 3 cleaners busy.
I would appreciate it if other forum members would give me an indication of average prices, and an idea of how many square metres a decent cleaner could expect to do in an hour.
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hi Andrew
a good friend of mine work's for chem-dry around north london he is on 17k ayear work's a 5-6 day week depending though staurday's are paid as over time ! wouldn't know the rate of pay in the north but would have thought simlar also he has use of the van which i think you'll give
though i read in a previous post of your's about equipment having to be taken out at night so your applicants must have storage or i take it, drop it off in a container on your caravan park which will meen more time & fuel cost's
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I think you think its too easy. ::)
Mark
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why are you going on the IICRC course would'nt it be better to send your staff.
Mike
Ps; I'm on that course, fancy a curry on the night?
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why are you going on the IICRC course would'nt it be better to send your staff.
Mike
Ps; I'm on that course, fancy a curry on the night?
I will send staff, as they are recruited, assuming that they are not already qualified. However, I think that attending the course myself will better equip myself to choose staff and supervise them.
Curry, now you are talking. mmmmmmmmmmmmm bhuna ;D
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I think you think its too easy. ::)
Mark
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. I realise that I am setting up a new business from scratch and I have a lot to learn, but I do not need to take any income from the new business for the first year or two, and I have the financial backing of my Bank to support the company through the first few months.
I was planning to invest up to £500,000 in caravan park expansion, but have met a brick wall with planning permission. So I am looking for a new challenge, and after a couple of "false starts" with oven cleaning (H+S issues with caustic chemicals) and car valeting (successful but a bit too weather-dependent for my taste, although the sales rep will also be selling fleet valeting)
The two hardest things I can see are recruitment and financial management: with commercial customers I can see that credit control will be an issue that needs attention, luckily in my other business I have a part time accounts clerk who can happilly work more hours.
I need good cleaning technicians, (although if only one of the three can do spotting that's fine, the other 2 can prespray and hwe), because the intention is that on anything other than the smallest jobs we will turn up "mob-handed" and "blitz the job". After all, anyone seeing 3 sign-written vans outside one job will sure as heck notice them!
I hope it's not too easy, but not TOO hard. However, we all start somewhere, and where exactly did Richard Branson learn to run an airline?
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What planet are you on Andrew, i only live a few miles up the road from you and have been doing this for about 12 yrs and am still lerning. Without meaning to brag i recon i can clean a carpet or 3 pc to the highest of standards. How much
would you want to pay me Andrew £500, £600, £700, plus per wk. Becouse
thats the sort of money you would have to pay in order to get the job done properly. So we then multiply these figures by 3 and then add a rep not sead yet
how you are going to pay him or her. Then we come to all the other costs ie
Nat ins, paye All the time remember that if these people are any good sooner or later they will come to realise that they might not need you, and its bey bey
Andrew. Always remember this if someone goes and does a job in your name
and makes a mess of it its not the person that did the job that the customer
is going to come after its YOU. Remember the coment you made on the post regardind Disclaimers i think it went something like if you shrink a carpet tell
the customer you will get it put right but they may have to pay a bit extra.
I would sugest that to progress in this business you need to think a bit more
about the remarks you make.
Take Care John
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What planet are you on Andrew, i only live a few miles up the road from you
we must be on the same planet, then :)
£500, £600, £700, plus per wk.
I'm looking for £200 a day from each of 3 cleaners, so the rep has to find £3000 work a week.
Remember the coment you made on the post regarding Disclaimers i think it went something like if you shrink a carpet tell
the customer you will get it put right but they may have to pay a bit extra.
If the carpet shrinks by my fault, then obviously no charge...... but what if the carpet was not fitted properly in the first place?
I would sugest that to progress in this business you need to think a bit more about the remarks you make.
You refer to a post in which I was making suggestions of how to deal with an Insurance Company asking for a disclaimer, not a post about wrecking someone's carpets.
Another topic in which I posted is
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=18267.0
and I think that post gives a truer picture of my attitude to customer care and quality.
How much would you want to pay me
the other costs ie Nat ins, paye
I would pay any member of staff less than I would charge a customer for their work; as I have to cover the overheads you describe.
if these people are any good sooner or later they will come to realise that they might not need you
and if they can afford to buy a van, kit and find customers then they are welcome to "go it alone" and try to make a go of it..... but if it is that easy for them to go it alone, why is it going to be so difficult for me, with plenty of business experience, admittedly in a different field? I'll even happily sell them the van and kit, and pass then sub-contract work.
These are all things that I have considered, and only time will tell if this business is a success, but as you are in my area, why not look at Woodlands Caravan Park, Tree Tops Day Nursery, L&M training, GLO55Y car valeting; they are all my & my wife's businesses, and doing quite nicely.
doing this for about 12 yrs and am still lerning
The caravan park celebrates 40 years this August, and the day nursery has been open for 15 years, moving to purpose built premises in 1997,
we are still learning too, but having great fun learning and enjoying the fruits of success, too.
I have also in the past started (and then sold as going concerns) a fleet of trailer based "butty vans" and a children's portrait business "babyfoto" that became a national operation before I sold the individual areas to the staff on a franchise deal.
John, the point of my post was to ask for an idea of the general prices in this area..... I don't want to undercut you, I don't want to steal your customers, so I don't want to go round advertising low prices..... although you could still get the jobs on the grounds of your admittedly much greater experience.
Anyway, if the carpet cleaning business is good for £700 a week, then at least I am getting into a business with decent margins, much better than opening a supermarket next door to Asda!
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...where exactly did Richard Branson learn to run an airline?
;D ;D ;D
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Same place as I learnt to run a Caravan Park...... the University of life, in the School of Hard Knocks faculty.
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go for it andrew, think BIG,you're obviously not afraid of hard work, and that's mostly what it takes!
;)
regards
steve
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Andrew,
Out of courtesy I have just checked the Jobcentre Plus website for carpet cleaning vacancies. Wages start from £5-50 per hour and go up to £20000 per year. The results are bellow:
http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/Internet/viewVacancy.do?selectedVacancy=1&ref=NEH/28648
http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/Internet/viewVacancy.do?selectedVacancy=10&ref=ATS/11871
http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/Internet/viewVacancy.do?selectedVacancy=16&ref=HWY/6393
http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/Internet/viewVacancy.do?selectedVacancy=20&ref=MAH/25540
Regards,
Arthur
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I think a short term view would be to test the water and do some repping yourself, then you can then get a technician and train him up (as well as yourself) and take it from there.
Even Hitler started from the bottom with his plan for world domination!
At £200 per day per employee well I recommend that you do your maths again there is not enough room for quieter periods or time off or an advertising budget or paying a rep.
If you pay a tech £60 a day and the van and machinery (which is an on going cost even if you buy it cash) you'll get rid of another say £40 and then the rep will want % then there is your cut and then the office worker.
Go for £300 to begin with and try for £400 per day then if it gets regular you can keep good employees and pay them an increase because every emplyee thinks they are worth more and it is cheaper to keep 1 employee than to have to keep rehiring and retraining!
I would sit down and look at your costs again, it takes time to build up a cc business.
Shaun
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*If the carpet shrinks by my fault, then obviously no charge...... but what if the carpet was not fitted properly in the first place?*
Do you not think its your job to check its correctly fitted and secured before proceeding to clean?
If a carpet shrinks when YOU clean it, its YOUR fault.
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hi andrew i run a carpet cleaning buissness an i think u are in cloud cuckoo land its taken me alot of time foot slogging delivering leaflets advertising .ect.tu get this up to were iwant it . if u like hard work have a go mate but it will not be easy .p.s ill work for u for £600 a week .
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Even Hitler started from the bottom with his plan for world domination!
::) :o :o :o
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yeah me to £600 a week!
cleaning carpets is the easy part. ;D
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i think i've read the previous post correctly
"if the carpet shrinks by my fault, then no charge" however if it's not fitted properly & pointed out to the custard who after explaining about pos shrinkage drying then relaxing of the p**y carpet still would like it cleaned
1) how many of you would show them how to use your equiptment so they can do it themselfs ?
2) how many would just go ahead & clean it ?
3) how many after cleaning has shrunk, the custard is unhappy even though full explaination was given & made something of it ?
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If youve got that sort of wedge then your going about it in the wrong way my friend. Then again you might be full of c rap
Nick
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hi there andrew
a nother way to pay your employees is to pay them
commision on what they do + a basic wage
if they are getting your vans for them selves over the weekend
they will probly end up doing homers for them selve as well so i would
ask them to pay towards insurance and running costs.
it would also be an idear to pay them extra on jobs that they find themselves
say 50% of total job price at least you get something out of it.
on the sales man thing it would be pretty hard at the start to find 3 grand worth of work at the start
i would be thinking a long the lines of leaflets as well 40.000 - 60.000
a month to start with that sounds like a lot of leaflets but better budget for to many than to little.
davy
i started out in this business working for some one else had to buy all my own kit and supplie transport. at the start i only got paid 25% of total takeings for the week it was crap but a good learning ground and i got a pay rise to 33% when i went to leave.
hope this helps and good luck
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Would it be to much to ask Andrew if you have ever cleaned a carpet in you life.
I dare say not, but then again with your pedigree of businesses you would not need to would you. With all that lovely money you and your wife are making i am
surprised you have not phoned me, promise i wont over charge you. As for quoting Richard Branson dont make me ;D ;D ;D you are like one of his aircraft
tyres FULL OF WIND :) :)
Take Care John
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Potential wear should be noted by the rep on his/her visit, realistically the tech should have half of his job done for him before he/she gets there ie carpet fitted properly, staining possibilties of removal, furniture pre moved etc etc
Getting the REGULAR work is not as easy as you think, YP ads are costly and the phone rings all at once it's not staggard ie 10 a day.
Shaun
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As a non carpet cleaner I have no axe to grind. It seem some of you are making personal atacks for nothing more than jelousy. The proof of the puding will be if in Seven years Andrew has a viable business.
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Hi Andrew,
I admire your enthusiasm and eagreness to get into this business although god only knows why! There is good money to be made but its very hard work and takes years to build up a good business. The problem is it doesn't happen overnight no matter how much money you throw at it!
I've only been in this business for a couple of years now and am learning new things every day. There are people on this forum that have been going for a lot longer and are still learning. Its not the cleaning, thats the easy part, its the marketing and selling your services for the best price thats hard.
The problem with employing carpet cleaners is that unless you are charging top dollar and paying them a weekly wage of £400/£500 they will work for themselves. Add on to that vehicle expenses, advertising, insurance, supplies, equipment wear, tear and maintenance etc. you've got to expect them to earn you £1000 a week minimum to earn you any money. Not easy week in week out.....
I'm not trying to put a dampener on your ideas just being realistic, you're obviously successfull in other businesses and as I said before I admire your enthusiasm.
If you are serious about getting into this business you'll need to get someone on board with experience in the business who can guide you through and take the reigns. Also not easy because if they're any good they'll have their own business up and running!
If I were you I'd stick with what you know. If you do decide to go for it then all the best, be warned though that jumping into a business you know very little about could be nothing more than an expensive headache.
Kind regards,
Jason.
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I can assure you Paul jealousy has nothing to do with it, what have i or anybody
ells on this forum got to be jealous about. What you seem to forget is that some of us have been doing the job for a long time and therefor know what the pitfalls
can be. Just by what this man is saying regarding the job of a carpet/upholstery cleaner ( Bearing in mind i have yet to be convinsed that he has ever cleaned a carpet in his life) tells me and others on this site that he does that he does not have a clue.
Take Care John
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..............
There was a guy who ran a similar operation in the Central belt of Scotland, but he knew the business, worked in it and got a high volume of business through advertising in six weekly papers, plus Y/P and Thomsons.
He used experienced c/c's and quality machinery and as I said knew the business.
The operation being talked about here is a concept in someones head and may or may not work.
If I had the resources available to Mr Chrysler I would be looking at other ways of building my empire.
However..............good luck Andrew, think you might need it.
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Could I say how I see it:
Andrew knows what his is doing:
He has got the business skills, he has the money or he knows how to find them (banks, loans etc) and he is prepared to learn how to clean carpets, so he will get an understanding of what it likes to do such business.
He joined this forum to share his business experience and to get advice when he needs it.
What is wrong with his will to get into this industry?
Good luck Andrew!
Regards,
Arthur
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Could I say how I see it:
Andrew knows what his is doing:
He has got the business skills, he has the money or he knows how to find them (banks, loans etc) and he is prepared to learn how to clean carpets, so he will get an understanding of what it likes to do such business.
He joined this forum to share his business experience and to get advice when he needs it.
What is wrong with his will to get into this industry?
Good luck Andrew!
Regards,
Arthur
I wish you wouldn't, but its too late now. But at least you didn't mention the CFR uses recycled water this time ::)
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was going to respond to this posting by Arthur, but there really is no point as he clearly sees the world from a different perspective and there is nothing to be gained from striking brick walls with your head.
rob m
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Tell you what i'll do,£600 a week and a caravan for me maah in periwinkle blue and il come and do some repping for ya! ;D
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Andrew il give you my opinion.
Carpet cleaning is a good buisness to get into when you think of the money that can be taken per hour or day, as it pays better than virtually all the other cleaning trades and you can take home a better wage for yourself than on a lot of other jobs.
That makes it a good buisness to get into for yourself as a one man band as you have the potential to earn more money than the average person.
However if you have no desire to do the work yourself and you are willing to take the stress of employing a team of people i would not choose this as a buisness as there are imo a lot better choices.
Your allready existing car valeting is not a bad one.
The trouble with carpet cleaning is you allways have to find new customers (allways) and when you dont your in trouble with car valeting once you have found a customer they are regular every week or every other week, you can just buy the equipment, very quickly build a round employ someone to work it and sit back and collect your money.
And theres a lot less things to go wrong cleaning a car than a carpet.
So although theres more money in carpet cleaning, i would rather have 6 car valeting vans on the road than 2 carpet cleaning vans.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Daniel
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...there is nothing to be gained from striking brick walls with your head.
rob m
Rob,
Please, do not try it ::) at home. ;)
Regards,
Arthur
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Andrew,
I am a bit amazed,
Why have you got Rug Doctor and Windsor Passport,
Ok for Hire Machines perhapsOk for for very Cheap Clean.
My research at Job Centre Plus indicates £1200 to £18000.
I posted elsewhere where I got those rates from.
As you are not short ofa bob or two It might be a good idea to invest in Marketing
Alltec do Fasttrack but you can now buy the Bridgepoint modules, There is .
also the Joe Polish Kit
See you in Nottingham
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hi andrew, i think u need to hav a really good think again about your plans for three cleaners and a rep, unless u hav some really big contract work lined up, u must hav looked into the money u need to make a week for this kind of setup ??? for starters u need to put out a min of 15000 leaflets a week to try and keep them in work and be very competive on price, they would earn more money than u imo the costs involed are huge 3 vans ,3 lots insurance, tax, mots ,eqp,chems,huge advertising costs leaflets,thomson,yellow pages and a rep !! do u relise how many carpets u need to clean a week to make this work? u put three workers on a wage how fast u think they going to work ? how long would it be before they are missing the last job of the day whats your profit for the day ? how long before they are putting them extra carpet cleans on a job in thier pocket? imo u would lose 10s of thousands pounds before u made this pay even if by chance u found a good group of cleaners, but hey best of luck ;)
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Thanks to everyone for their advice and encouragement, and thanks for some of the questions raised.... they all help, especially the negative comments, because I really have to think about them hard :)
Why have you got Rug Doctor and Windsor Passport,
Ian, I bought them 2nd hand before I found this forum.... in the days when I thought CC would be easy :D hey we all make mistakes! Never mind, no harm done, because these can be offered for rental, or sold again on ebay
My research at Job Centre Plus indicates £1200 to £18000.
I was thinking of a basic wage around £11,500 with a bonus scheme to increase this to around £17,000 based on performance, attendance and workmanship.
would rather have 6 car valeting vans on the road than 2 carpet cleaning vans.
I see your point, Daniel, but unfortunately when it rains or snows, the car valeting comes to a halt. Maybe I would be best with 6 car valeting vans on the road in Spain :)
trouble with carpet cleaning is you allways have to find new customers
Getting the right sales rep is absolutely crucial to the success of the business model.
i have yet to be convinsed that he has ever cleaned a carpet in his life
At least nobody has said "who does he think he is.... Richard Branson" but RB doesn't fly his 747's, he employs experts for that. I need one expert cleaner and 2 good ones, and a superstar rep. I have cleaned a carpet, with a Passport, and it was a rotten result. That's why I thought that I needed to learn more, looked at this forum, and booked some training.
Potential wear should be noted by the rep on his/her visit, realistically the tech should have half of his job done for him before he/she gets there ie carpet fitted properly, staining possibilties of removal, furniture pre moved etc etc
Thank you Shaun, that is excellent advice and I will adopt that procedure straight away.
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i am
surprised you have not phoned me, promise i wont over charge you.
With no advert in Yellow Pages, Thomson Local, the Midweek Visiter or the Champion, where would I get your phone number from?
Only joking... These are all avenues of advertising I have also rejected, and I am sure that after 12 years you have sufficient repeat business to keep you busy.
Thank you, John, for your frank opinions. I am expecting a challenge, I am looking for a challenge, at the moment I am bored for half the week, hence I have time, probably too much time, to be on the internet and drink coffee.
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If youve got that sort of wedge then your going about it in the wrong way my friend. Then again you might be full of c rap
Nick
Come on then, Nick..... tell me the right way. :)
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Even Hitler started from the bottom with his plan for world domination!
But his plan failed, maybe he should have started from the top! ;D ;D ;D
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it would also be an idear to pay them extra on jobs that they find themselves say 50% of total job price at least you get something out of it.
What a good idea, Davy. It might just avoid the temptation to do "foreigners"..........
Also means that on a quiet day, they have some work to get on with, looking for jobs.
Thanks!
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If youve got that sort of wedge then your going about it in the wrong way my friend. Then again you might be full of c rap
Nick
Come on then, Nick..... tell me the right way. :)
166 posts in less than 2 months tells you something my balloon fondling friend ;)
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...there is nothing to be gained from striking brick walls with your head.
rob m
Rob,
Please, do not try it ::) at home. ;)
Regards,
Arthur
And your even worse!!
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Would it be to much to ask Andrew if you have ever cleaned a carpet in you life.
Hardly ever
It might be a good idea to invest in Marketing
Now you are talking, if there is one thing I do know, it's marketing.
Hopefully that will be enough, if I can hire the skills to do the actual cleaning.
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166 posts in less than 2 months tells you something my balloon fondling friend ;)
Aha...... so the secret of success is to try to fly across the Atlantic in a giant hot air balloon shaped like a Ninja ;D Sorry, but I'm scared of heights ;)
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Andrew
Just thought that I would give you my slant on this business. My costs are as follows
1 x van (2.5k per yr on finance)
2 x operatives (full time)(30k)
2 x half page y/p ads (7.5k)
1 x telesales bod (15k + commision)
Phone bill (2k)
Specailist & van insurance (2k)
Equipment purchase & maintenance (2k)
Fuel (3k)
Chemicals (1k)
Other advertising (2k)
Total 67k per year :o Christ, no wonder I never have any money!
As you can see I have a very proactive set up but even now I still need to do other jobs to make up the money such as kitchen cleaning, one off cleans, builders cleans, stripping & re sealing floors etc.
I hope this helps!
Regards
Tim
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NIce one Andrew ;D
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Thanks, Tim, that's very useful. I also intend to be very proactive, because I am convinced that it is the quickest way to build up from scratch.
I have kept my set up costs as low as possible. I am looking at:
3 vans : transferred from other business : £0
1 car : second hand : £3000
equipment second hand : £3000
These are paid for, and should last a couple of years.
3x operatives, full time, £45K (with bonuses)
1x sales rep, full time, £20K
Insurance, £3K
Chemicals... I'll use your figure, £1K
Fuel... compact area so I'll go with £2K
add 20% for unseen costs.
So about £80K, which means each operative needs to clean about £600 per week to break even..... I'd like to see £1000, but it all takes time. No Yellow Pages or press ad's, just a rep visiting every restaurant, hotel, nursing home etc, and the intention is to stagger the start dates of the 3 cleaning operatives (I like the word "technicians" though) to take account of workflow.
If I can get £1000 per week per technician, allowing for holidays, that's £140K so plenty of margin to buy new vans and kit once things are established.
I've also got my eye on a boat in Miami....... i just need $379,000 ;D if carpet cleaning works, I'll call it VAC-CATION 8)
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Hi Andrew
Good luck with your new carpet cleaning venture, The only thing I would
say, is I dont think your wages are high enough to attract top quality
staff .
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i think you have had so many sceptics andrew because 98% of c/c on here are owners/operaters, and we find it a hard slog,
and being owners is an incentive to work extra hard, your employees wont have that motivation.
i think your buisness model is not suited to this industry, i mean how many are set up in that way?, NONE in my area.
any on here?
if there is they got to know this biz like the back of there hand, and probaly estabished many years ago when it was not so competitive.
but good luck, you'll need it, craig.
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You'll be lucky if you get away with £1k chemical and £2k fuel if you are running 3 vans!
I use £50 a week just on my van.
Not getting into the debate of which is best, but why not get your 1st tech going well and buy a TM as this will double or tripple your production rate.
3 x techs at £45000 could then be 1 x £15000 and a TM running cost of say £5000 you could save yourself £25 K a year.
Shaun
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Hi Andrew
Coming from a sales background in IT I dont think that you will get a good sales rep for 20K
You may get some snooty s..t but not anyone any good. 50k-60K sounds more like it because you will need someone that knows how to sell and is happy with the money they are earning.
If he/she is bring in £3000 a week than they are the front line of your business and know what is coming in, I dont think they will be happy with 20K and a £3000 pound Car.
Sales people are Estate agents without the cheap suite's. Out to line their pockets and dont really care about the company, as they tend to move jobs every 1-2 years anyway.
Just a thought
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In agreement with Shaun, some of your figures are off. What equipment have you got for £3000 second hand? Three wands would be around £750??
While anything is possible its your plan that will dictate your success or failure. I think you need a more detailed and researched plan of action and I feel you can only do this with relevant industry experience.
IMO you dont need a FT sales rep. Effective marketing plan needs to have a range of mediums. Why only commercial? Youll be doing well to find employees to clean carpets 5 nights a week because thats when most commercial work is done.
Someone once told me on average take 50% off your turnover for costs. The other 50% is yours. Up till now that has worked for me.
Mark
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I dont think that you will get a good sales rep for 20K
........ 50k-60K sounds more like it ....... I dont think they will be happy with 20K and a £3000 pound Car
20K basic, commission to get £40K OTE ....... Berlingo multispace to start with, Mercedes C class when they hit target.
Target is £6000 per week: £3000 is minimum to keep the job.
Shareholding and directorship could be on offer for the right person, to keep them on board for long term.
The rep is only selling a few hundred pounds' worth of cleaning, not many thousands of IT.
Why only commercial?
Because I am VAT registered already..... so commercial work is more logical, as all prices can be plus vat
What equipment have you got for £3000 second hand?
Enough to start with, once we hit target I can buy new and lease new vans. 3 HWE and 3 uprights, in decent nick, all will be serviced before starting.
£1k chemical and £2k fuel if you are running 3 vans!
Sorry, I meant that per van.
Thanks for all your questions, they are keeping my mind focused and helping with refining the plan before we start.
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Hi Andrew
Its not about what you are selling. The Sales rep at 20K is not going to be any good, Sales People earn the money they do because of what they do. They are not going to earn you between £12000 and £24000 a month and be happy with a take home of around £2000 and a Berlingo. Any Sales person with the drive to do the job is not going put up with that, they want a nice car and a lot more money than that
The margins in IT are a lot less than the margins in carpet cleaning, but sales is sales. IT companies need to move many thounsands of products before they make a profit but the sales person is still selling a product.
How quick would you want him to be bring money in for you because I think from experience a sales person on £20000 is going to be new and has to learn the ropes so he is not going to be productive for a very long time,maybe even 6 to 12 months. Who's going to train him/her in sales.
If you find that person that you are talking about for that money good luck to you, but after many years working in a Sales enviroment it just does not happen.
Pay Peanuts and you do get monkeys.
Good Luck
Neil
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well said monkey boy :o
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i recently heard of a british gas sales rep earning 110k with his commision,
so id have to agree with neil, if there good they want big money!
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Unfortunatly seems Andrew has all the anwsers as usual and if someone has them, whell not much more anyone can say is there becouse they know best dont they ? I just wish it was as easy as he thinks it is, as i only live about 10
miles from him, have been doing this for a long time. And have sean people
come and go. Even the big ones like New Life at Preston thats right Andrew
just ten miles from where you live. at there hight they had 3 vans 5 workers
2 partners lots of nice insurance work. And OVERHEADS that went into thousands per month. Guess where they are now Andrew, thats right finashed
capput, out of it. With nothing to show but a lot of heartake, think about it Andrew.
Take Care John
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...there is nothing to be gained from striking brick walls with your head.
rob m
Rob,
Please, do not try it ::) at home. ;)
Regards,
Arthur
And your even worse!!
Nick, ::) I just wished him well ;D
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You talking about nulife as in the Philbins?
If so they are very much still in business and youd do well to learn from them. Met the son recently at Alltec. Decent bloke with a lot of drive.
Mark
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John Rimmer Marshall & Rimmer Ltd,
Whats your problem?
Andrew hasn't once said that its going to be easy for him. He has thanked everyone on the forum for their input and has taken on board both positive and negative comments (even the ones from you).
Me thinks you're getting worried about possible competition if Andrew only lives 10 miles from you! >:(
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Lets deal with you one at at a time shall we, Mark Roberts first I do not know what you are talking about. I can asure you New Life went out of business
over 4 yrs ago. So i sugest you get your facts right OK. As for Southern Cleaning
whatever your name is, if you think after 12 yrs in business, and serviving for that lengh of time that i fear competition from Andrew, that begars belief on your part. I am simply trying to point out the folly of what Andrew is saying, and if you had the amount of exp that i have in the business logic would dictate that you also would have to reach the same conlution.
Take Care John
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I meant the amount of times you post!! you need to get out more :P
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Im looking forward to meeting Andrew next week.
It appears Andrew has started several companies.
I am a bit concerned about staying power, ie Oven Cleaning Car Valeting, etc but every step is a learning process.
It appears Andrew wants a business not a job.
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I think we should cut Andrew some slack, he cleary values the opinions of his fellow proffesionals otherwise he wouldnt ask for them and although some people have been constructive and pointed out downfalls and mistakes im disappionted that some many people have been quick to take the mickey. Im sure Andrew who runs several business has run the numbers and im sure he will run them again and probably another few times before commiting any capital to his new venture. I say good luck Andrew if youve got the minerals to go for it and the desire to follow it through then im sure you will MAKE it work even if it means refining your business plan as you go along, becuase if we are honest there is not one person on here who wrote a business plan on day one and follwed it to the letter, everyone has to make amendments and chages to how thier business is run, everyone!.
Ok rant over, sorry about that.
Dene
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Hey Andrew you have taken some flak for this.
Just to wish you good luck and hope you can prove them wrong.
p.s a good battle strategy "don't tell the enemy what you going to do" especially when they live just up the road.
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if that buisness model works we all have a fleet of vans,
after a few years starting out, as and when the business grows add a van, earn more, get more work, add another one, were raking it in now add another operator, add a scretary,
has it happened that way for any of us on here? no.
your dreaming!
its just not suited, like window cleaning, wheelie bin cleaners, do they have sceretaries?
and if it was possible would we not be doing it?
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That's a fact Craig.
I don't think this business can support large operations because of all the competition out there. If every house in the country had their carpets cleaned as well as every commercial establishment, then maybe theres a chance, but as only in the region of 25% of people bother with having their carpets cleaned, then i think not either.
Maybe there are one or two already established businesses out there, but they have been doing it a lot longer and had made the contacts necessary to get whre they are today, and protecting what they've got.
Regarding wheelie bin cleaning rounds, there is a large one in my area. Going back to the late 1980s / early 1990s, Torfaen council issued wheelie bins to their residents in Cwmbran, and there were one or two individuals who started to clean them.This could have been a good opportunity back then for people if they knew the knock on effect that wheelie bins would have. I have my bins cleaned by a couple of chaps in a scruffy old van, out of loyalty to a local business for £2 a fortnight.
The big boys have a dedicated fleet of vans on the road and this business was acquired because the owner, a tall gentleman wearing a suit, took the trouble to knock on every door in my town and surrounding areas. All their bins have a nice sticker on them advertising other services.
My bin cleaner told me about a dirty tricks campaign against him by reporting them for tipping the water from the bin after cleaning it into the street instead of collecting it as they do. Gladly it did'nt work.
If i suddenly came into a lot of money, i would'nt go out and buy a couple of vans and truck mounts or even upgrade to a better truck mount, because like you, i am realistic about this business.
I would respectfully say to Andrew, go and physically do the work yourself before you actually start hiring people, then you might get a different perspective. My favourite programme is Microsoft Excel. It is wonderful doing lots of "What If" calculations. They Don't often work out like i thought they would. :-[
Dave
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i agree dave, andrew, try it alone first, im sure you will be glad then when theres a quiet spell that you dont have wages to pay,
imo you should try to keep over heads minimal in the begining.
all i can say is for your business model you'll need the work coming in so thick and fast you'll have to spend big on advertising, your prices will need to be so high to cover advertising, wages, vans, fuel that you'll struggle to compete with more stream line companies, especially since your only going to do commercial which often needs to be priced competitivley.
sorry if it all sounds negititive, i just think you'll have a major challenge on your hands, but you do say thats what you like ;)