Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lisa123 on March 25, 2006, 01:39:12 pm
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Just have a few questions.
Do your cleaners know your rates that you charge? and are they happy that they are only getting their £5.whatever out of that total charge.
I have just taken on a new girl, and shes decided that shes part of the management team.
I know i said to her if she wants to make a suggestion about anything, she can, but she is trying to change our whole system, She only started on Wednesday!
The way we are training her, is to go along with her for a few weeks until we are sure she will meet standards, and hopefully her police check will be back by then. She has no keyholding, the clients are in when she cleans at the moment, so it isn't so much a problem.
Is this the way you would do it? We are showing her what we want her to do, given her a chance to have a go at the tasks, and have given her training modules from the BICS proficiency manual to get familiar with, but she thinks she is above it i think. She has even started slagging off my biz partner. Apparently, other Lisa was running 10 mins late or something for the first client on Friday, and kept the cleaner waiting for a little while, our clients aren't too fussy about the specific times, so if we agree to around 9 start, we know we are ok between 845 and 915.
The cleaner on the other hand, was rolling her eyes, and being being disapproving of Lisa and kept going on about it and saying we should invest in alarm clocks, sounds quite silly now, but who does she think she is!?
I'm starting to think we picked a bad egg here, i don't think she has any repect for us. We have been totally honest with her about everything, and i don't think she will last until her 6 months review.
Anyone else had experiences like this?
Sorry to rant on
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...I have just taken on a new girl, and shes decided that shes part of the management team.
I know i said to her if she wants to make a suggestion about anything, she can, but she is trying to change our whole system, She only started on Wednesday!...
SACK HER MONDAY!!!
before it too late ;D
Regards,
Arthur
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Added later:
I posted before reading your post to the end. Now I have red it and can say you Lisa:
I am not kidding ::)
During first week of employment you can sack a new employee with no notice at all, I would do just that...
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Hi Lisa
I agree with Arthur, sack her now or you will regret ever employing her.
My rates are never discussed with the cleaners, as it is none of their business. Plus, if you start going down that route, the cleaners think they are getting ripped off and deserve more. However, they fail to realise that you have to pay the government additional money to employ them and that you have overheads to pay also.
I had one member of staff years and years ago ask a client how much I was charging and offered to do it for less privately. The client accepted this, but when it went pear shaped and asked me to supply cleaners again, he was told NO.
Your business is your business, keep it that way, your employees are your staff not your boss.
Many Thanks
Andrew
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I have just arranged a meeting for me and other lisa to discuss the coming week and other bits and bobs, i have invited our new cleaner to come along for the 2nd part of the meeting (we want to talk about her first).
Do you think it is something that should be brought up, i mean she might just be over enthusiastic, or it might just be her way. I'm awaiting her references, perhaps i'll hold off the police check for now.
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SACK HER MONDAY!!!
[/b]
I am not confident about no notice..... I think the minimum is 1 week.
Your contract of employment may provide for a trial period and state a notice period within this, but the most notice would be 1 week unless your contract gives her more
SACK HER MONDAY!!!
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Lisa, you really do not want her as an employee. If she's trouble now, she will be more trouble later.
I would give her a week's pay, in lieu of notice, and say goodbye. However, you need to have a meeting with her to discuss her attitude, and only after that meeting can you decide to dismiss her.
so my advice is.....
HAVE A MEETING MONDAY MORNING, AND SACK HER MONDAY AFTERNOON!!!
I am 100% sure that you should sack her, just check that you do it 100% the right way.
You can sack for attitude, lack of respect etc
You can't sack her for racial or disability issues (or on sex discrimination grounds, but unless you sack a man I can't see that being a problem!
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Looks like I'll be advertising for a new cleaner then.
She seemed a nice girl.
Anyway, she is declaring her hours at the jobcentre as she is still claiming, i'm currently only paying timeshare as 2 cleaners doing so many hours, will the jobcentre pick up on this, i was sure i was going about it the right way.
She will tell the jobcentre she worked 7.5 hours last week, (total client hours) but she will be paid only half that as 2 cleaners sharing the hours.
Will i be getting into trouble?
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SACK HER MONDAY!!!
[/b]
I am not confident about no notice..... I think the minimum is 1 week.
Your contract of employment may provide for a trial period and state a notice period within this, but the most notice would be 1 week unless your contract gives her more
Andrew,
No notice is applicable in the first week of employment unless terms and conditions of employment document has been issued at the very start of employment and suggests otherwise.
Regards,
Arthur
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...She will tell the jobcentre she worked 7.5 hours last week, (total client hours) but she will be paid only half that as 2 cleaners sharing the hours.
Will i be getting into trouble?
Lisa, stop looking for trouble. 7.5 hours or 3 hours is not a big deal, I would pay her for 7.5 hour just to not give her a reason to get back to you with a claim.
Just lose her...
Regards,
Arthur
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HAVE A MEETING MONDAY MORNING, AND SACK HER MONDAY AFTERNOON!!!
I like this ::) ;D
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Thanks Arthur
I'll see how she goes next week, then if no improvement shes out the door.
I think some ground rules need to be set first, if she still has the attitude...... dya know what, i just remembered what she said about clients doing their own dirty work, i don't think she wants this job at all.
See what happens monday.
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Lisa,
It sounds to me like you are very nice to the extreme. Unfortunately in business when you have a problem it has to be dealt with promptly before things become worse I would advise the same as every one else get rid of this potential trouble maker now they are already causing you problems you dont need.
Kindest regards
Mark Walker
The Exeter Cleaning Company Ltd
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The thing is she has only done 2 days with us, it would be wrong of me to judge so soon.
I am a bit of a soft touch at times, how can i say to her face that her services are no longer required?! :-\
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Hi, if you want to get rid of her without notice you can, if an employee has worked for you for less than a month, no notice is required.
Have a read of this:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/02.htm
Regards
Paul
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Hi Lisa,
She's sound a bit of a madam, you are better off without her how long before she makes negative comments to your clients.
Blow out first thing on Monday and save yourselves a heap of trouble in the future.
Cheers Mark.
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The thing is she has only done 2 days with us, it would be wrong of me to judge so soon.
I am a bit of a soft touch at times, how can i say to her face that her services are no longer required?! :-\
I always assume, maybe wrongly, that a member of staff would be on their BEST behaviour in their first days of a new job- out to impress etc.
With people who like to make comments about others I also would wonder what she will be saying to your clients behind your back. If she knows how you and your partner actually feel about this I would place a bet she wouldn't come back to work for you anyway. People don't like being caught out. I wouldn't put up with her sort of behaviour but obviously you need to make sure you are sticking to the law. Good luck on Monday and you and your partner need to stick together on this one. ;D
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maybe she thought that cos we are so informal and just get on with everyone that she could say these things.
I think perhaps our behaviour, cos we are being nice to her and telling her what to expect and what our customers are like, she things she can slag them off.
All i said about a customer we had was that she was chatty and can get in your way abit when you are trying to clean by causing distractions,and if she asks you to do something that isn't already agreed, not to do it.
she went back to the other lisa and said that this customer was doing her head in and that she was annoyingly in the way etc. Might just have been repeating me in a round about way. I'm not one to slag people off behind their back, i'm careful what and how i say things most of the time.
Thing was, that "annoying" customer spent most of the time with me, and my cleaner hardly said a word to her.
I think i'm going to ask my cleaner if she actually wants the job beacuse she isn't acting like she does.
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It sounds like you've got a bad one there. Thats for sure!!
Be very careful because i took on a neighbour on which was just the same and i even(stupidly) let her collect the money from the clients that she cleaned for as they were out in a village and i didn't drive at the time of course by then she knew what i charged and went round and cleaned for half the village for less moneyand pocketed the money for herself and then told me that the client didn't want us anymore meanwhile she kept doing it herself and still does. Be aware she might just do the same once she has your confidence in her. although it would be nice to expand my business i have decided to clean on my own, that way i only have me to answer too. Good luck Lisa
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Hi
If this lady is like this now, what will she be like 3 months down the road, when she thinks her feet are under the table. Show her the door, tell her your the BOSS not her. and you will employ her only if she will works on YOUR TERMS ONLY. if she find s this to hard to handle, that she is NOT THE BOSS open the door for her and tell her to use it. when she does take it as she has walked out of her job with no notice. all the best
Michael D
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Thats a good way to do it, i could make her walk if i get her to do things that shes not prepared to do.
When the other Lisa and my cleaner were working on a house yesterday, they were working together and lisa was training her as they went along, but the cleaner was given some ironing to do by Lisa, and half way through she said she was fed up and if she could do something else.
so Lisa gave her the manky shower cubicle and tiles to clean lol
What would have happened had Lisa not been there? I think she may have refused to do them by the way she was taling. one minute she says things are in the customers best interests then she does that with the ironing.
I think a lot of points will be discussed about her attitude to work on Monday.
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...I think a lot of points will be discussed about her attitude to work on Monday...
Lisa,
I would not discus the points, I would not even mention them as the reason for your decision...
You do not want to get into situation where you find yourself arguing with the girl as to what is right and what is not.
Keep it short:
Hello missus, I and my partner have come to a conclusion that we would not like you to continue to work for us. (full stop)
(do not let yourself into debate)
Say good bye, all the best or what ever and move on.
Regards,
Arthur
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Hi Lisa
You mentioned that she is still claiming. Perhaps she took the job to stop the DSS breathing down her neck. If you're on job seekers allowance, and a suitable job becomes available you have to go for an interview and show you're looking for work, otherwise they'll stop the benefits. If this is the case, she's probably looking to be sacked.
Good luck
Ali
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very good point daviesali. i have heard of this many times. you need to be wary too that she is declaring that she is working to the DSS. you do not want to be seen as a colusive(excuse spelling ::) ) employer.
All the best and at least you have the backing of the other Lisa
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I had a woman turn up for an interview once who had no intention of getting the job at all. I actually asked her whether she wanted the job or was at interview because she had to be, she admitted it was the later. She told me that she spent her days watching tv!. The reason this particular lady sticks in my mind though is because she stunk so badly of being unwashed and of urine i vomited during the interview. At which point the interview ended.
Cheers Mark.
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:o :-X say no more !!
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Lisa
Tell us how you get on
Regards,
Arthur
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Hi Guys & Girls
We have had the meeting today, we even dropped the odd comment she made last week into conversation but i don't even think she noticed.
I did my speach about customers and tasks must be completed and up to standard, and she said she was going to knuckle down this week, especially as we told her that we will be watching her every move and marking her on what we have shown her.
Maybe she will think we are too strict this week, hopefully she will walk out then.
But we are giving her this week to see how she goes, any nonsense like last week and shes out. And she kows this.
I have just realised that she is partially deaf, i thought that was just her way, from the way her speech is. She didnt declare this on her health questionnaire at the application process.
It doesn't have any impact on her ability to do the job, it just cropped up. She was saying to the other Lisa that i get on her nerves cos i talk too much.........i think i'll be so harsh and strict that she will want to talk ;D
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the only way i feel it works with staff is to go out with them in a team of 3 or 2 never let them go on their own it never works i have been doing my company for 15 years and it work that way fine for me
dont let staff run your business
or u will have no business
best wishes
owen
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Hello Owen,
Out of courtesy may I ask how many people you employee.
Regards,
Arthur
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well, again this week we were training our new employee, we go cleaning with her so she hasn't been on her own yet.
what do you do when chemical portion control and slowness to do the job becomes a problem? we have told, explained showed etc everything many times over, but she still doesnt realise what she is doing.
I asked her to put a drip of bleach down a stinky sink, and she covered the whole sink with nearly a quater bottle of thick bleach. One great big squirt and then some!
I was not impressed, she seems to have no idea. Does this infringe health and safety? and her attitude towards it? I got her to completely scrub the sink and rince thoroughly, even told her to wear a mask but wasn't having any of it.
Immature i think the word is.
Anyway we are sending her off on her own next week, only has 3 clients. We are going to 'spy' on her and get the clients to give us feedback after checking her work.
Do you think immaturity is a sackable offence? She will do the work but lacks initiative i think.
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hmm difficult one. the thing im concerned about is that if she is partially deaf and you sack her are you breaching any rules on employing people with disabilities ? I have yet to read up on these rules but im sure someone can tell me. sorry lisa if i have confused you even more but just a thought i had. ???
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Your not breaking any laws, please read the link I posted above, you dont have to sack her, just state she's not suitable, u have 1 month from her start date for giving her no notice.
Also I cant believe your letting your staff use bleach, each to their own I suppose :o
regards
Paul
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Hi Lisa,
Iworked with a lovely lady, we knew how much each client was paying as we collected the payments on each clean, she used to get really cheesedoff if one of her 'favourite customers' was being charged more than her'less favourite' ones for the same amount of hours. After 4 years of complaining about it and how the bosses didn't run their business to the standard she would run hers (if she'd had one) she suddenly up & left - and took 2 days worth of customers with her plus another member of staff!
It's your business she'll be slagging off, maybe informing your customers if they are paying different rates - get rid of her, if she's this bad now - look out!
P.s she also had a problem with her rate of pay compared to how much the bosses were actually getting paid.
hope this helps!
Juliet
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hi all
RE: Bleach I dont use it in any of my cleans, but only if the client requests it.
Most don't but this one likes a drizzle down the plug hole.
I personally wouldn't use it, i have asthma and bleach is dangerous stuff.
This week is it. Shes on her own Weds and partially fri, If she fails the theory test and her attitude hasn't improved then I'll say she is unsuitable for the position.
What do i do? informal meeting, followed by formal letter and P45? I thought i had to follow disiplinary or does that only apply after 1 month service?
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Theory test ???
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theory teat, sounds like a driving lesson doesnt it lol. ;D
cleaning theory, includes how to clean things, what to use, chemicals etc, colour coding, Health and safety, all the induction training really.
I have to know that she will do the work and do it well, and know how.
We have literally had to show her everything. Who uses dry cloths when cleaning anything? She does! Too much chemical use, and not cleaning the toilet properly, just squirt and leave (toilet cleaner) Drives me mad.
If she lets herself down this week then i'll have to find someone else.
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Hi Lisa
Within the first 12 months of employment, you don't have to give any notice at all but its got to be for a valid reason. What we do is put everyone on a six month probationary period and in this time we can give one weeks notice, but that's the same for them as well, they only have to give us one weeks notice, but it does save a lot of hassle, i.e. if their work's not up to standard, attitude, mistakes, unacceptable sickness level, etc.
Hope this helps
Ali
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Hi Lisa
Within the first 12 months of employment, you don't have to give any notice at all but its got to be for a valid reason. What we do is put everyone on a six month probationary period and in this time we can give one weeks notice, but that's the same for them as well, they only have to give us one weeks notice, but it does save a lot of hassle, i.e. if their work's not up to standard, attitude, mistakes, unacceptable sickness level, etc.
Hope this helps
Ali
Hi Ali,
You are required by law to give 1 wks notice after one month of employment, please click on this link:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/02.htm
Regards
Paul
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It does say this "Either party can terminate the contract of employment without notice if the conduct of the other justifies it."
Ali
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Hi Ali,
This is meaning for cases of gross misconduct, believe me stay within the law as far as employees go, if you think they are unsuitable after this 1 month period, give them a weeks notice and pay all holiday pay owed.
Regards
Paul
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bsf is right its 1 wweks notice after 1 months employment.
Cheers Mark.
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I'm going by my own experience. I was terminated :P (no notice given) after eleven months because of my sickness level. It was genuine sickness but as I hadn't been there a year I couldn't do anything. >:( It wasn't what I would call excessive sickness after comparing it to some of our NHS staff (I work in NHS HR at the mo), but they were going through a difficult financial period :-X and he was a solicitor. They begged me to go back about four months later, pay rise the lot.....imagine the pleasure I had in telling them to get stuffed ;D
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Hi Lisa 123,
Why don`t u sit down with this girl and tell her that her work is not what u want. She is no good for the job, and ask her to look for anthor job, and when she fines one she can go. And in the mean time her hours are going to be cut down. Michael D
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Having read through the posts its obvious you want her gone, if not there would be some positive remarks and not all negative, put quite basically if you were in her shoes would you rather have a boss that put you through hoops (theory test ???, was this explained at the interview as being standard procedure?) ,and was trying to find the guts to sack you or would you rather had a boss who kindly and politely said i don't think your suited to the job, no hard feelings but goodbye and good luck for the future.
I know which id prefer.
From your point of view, wouldn't it be easier to get rid now and have less stress than keep putting it off and wondering what shes going to do next?
I wouldn't entertain any thought of "theory tests" or has been suggested by others telling her she can stay (with reduced hours) until she finds other work, again put yourself in her shoes, how would you feel if this were you?
Also an employee staying under such conditions could do untold damage to your companies reputation with clients if they felt the need, leaving a disgruntled employee in someones home is not particularly wise is it!
From your clients point of view, would your clients be impressed if they knew that you had let someone enter their premises to work when you were not confident in either their abilities or with their attitude?
If I were a customer and i found this to be the case do you think you would keep that work, no, neither do I.
I didn't vote in the poll, no need, its your decision to make, i hope for your companies sake you do the right thing and quickly, while doing it in such a way that is polite, professional and without any undue stress to either party.
I will answer before I am asked by others, no, I don't employ any staff but i had 3 years as a shift manager in a factory with 120 staff when I started, reduced to 83 before I left, still producing the same output, where I was known as being harsh but fair (according to the toilet walls I was a few other things ;D), try telling a worker that their hygiene isn't up to the required standard throughout the disciplinary procedures, then sacking them a week after their fathers funeral (16 year old boy), not nice but it needed doing at the time.
I'm not "having a go" just trying to put all sides across equally, hope it works out, Andy
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The theory test was all explained at the interview, so it is just part of induction training. I hate to say it but i think she is starting to pull her socks up. She did do quite well in the test, and she was fine when i checked her at a clients house yesterday. Maybe its me being to picky.
Thank you for your long post Andy, i bet i'd be scared of you if you were my boss ;D I do see what you mean though. if she isn't meeting our standards then our customers aren't going to be happy.
I don't think anyone will meet our standards.
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If her works improving and she did well with the "theory test" then maybe shes trying harder than first thought, sometimes if people are out of work for a while they become detached from the "real" world apart from social interaction, perhaps by trying to fit in she has helped you to form a bad first impression, maybe by doing so she has come across as being over familiar.
Has she been told that she did okay with the test and that you were pleased with her work when you checked in on her?
Maybe doing so in an understated manner would give her some confidence in her role, although doing so wouldn't be wise if the gut feeling is still to send her down the road.
I don't know what your procedures are with customer/staff relations, but if you don't already have it in place then maybe a customer satisfaction survey could be filled in by customers on a regular basis, its only a matter of knocking up a form and sending it with their invoice along with a stamped addressed envelope, they could even fill it in anonymously if they liked, if you stagger the send out of the forms you soon get to realise who's saying what without any need for a signature, sorry to drag on, hope this helps, Andy
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yes we do have a service review questionnaire that we send out every so often to our customers, basic questions such as are you happy with the cleaning service provided, is your cleaner on time etc, do you get on well with your cleaner etc. any changes to be made to duties, times days etc.
is there any other questions that i should include? i only knocked up a quick one a few months ago and have been using that, but i would like to think of more questions for it.
She has been out of work for a while, and maybe i just need to give her a little bit of encouragement. Her theory results were in the catagory, of 'more practice required' for particular tasks, but fine on everything else health and safety colour coding etc.
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I'm just at the point of doing drafts for documentation for domestic cleaning (a process I'm hoping to have finished within the next week or so), initially my wife will be running the cleaning side alone, its an area we looked at due to requests from customers on the carpet and upholstery side, i would be happy to let you see a copy of the customer service survey when its finished if you like, there may be some differences there to your own and feedback is always helpful, Andy
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Thanks Andy that would be very helpful. its always good to have a brainstorm now and again.
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If she lets herself down this week then i'll have to find someone else.
???
Sorry. Don't believe you.
This thread started on 25th march and for 10 days you have voiced concern about her.
Where has she gone???
Its almost 2 weeks now and she is still with you.
What are you playing at?
Follow your instincts.
You little softy. :D
Good luck with your business anyway.
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Hi, well i guess her hard work was all a put on because she knew we were assessing her last week.
Shes back to old habits and customers do not trust her, and they do not like her, and they are not sure she is up to the job and they dont think her standards are good enough.
I'm very lucky to have customers, who are also friends - at the moment.
Her feedback from the customers isn't looking good. She is now fired! well when i call a meeting on Monday she is so FIRED!! ;D
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Hi Lisa,
Glad to see you've seen the light, she's still on probation, therefore, you have no problem getting rid, about bloody time.
Good luck on Monday, make sure you have a witness with you just in case she tries to come back with something and please ensure everything is documented.
Regards
graham
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how do you mean documented?
There will be both us Lisa's and her in the meeting.
we have never sacked anyone before, is there anything we have to do in particular with regards to paperwork? :-\ :-[
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Hi yer
Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.
I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting. Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.
Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go. Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e
Regards
Graham
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Forgot to mention P45!!!
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so all we have to do is write down everything said word for word.
tell her she has 5 days to appeal (to us i pressume)
send her a letter saying the reason etc and include her P45. is that right?
'quality of work not up to standard' she might argue that she has had inadequate training or something, i don't know.
I think we have been very thorough with the military style practical assess ment, theory test and the initial week showing the ropes aswell.
i'm not sure that she really cares if she leaves or not to be honest.
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Hi yer
Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.
I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting. Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.
Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go. Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e
Regards
Graham
Graham,
Your filling Lisa full of nonsense, appeal ;D ;D, the member of staff has worked for less than one month, even if they had worked for Lisa for nine months, all she would need to do is draft a simple letter explaining she/he isnt suitable for employment, in this case no notice is required, end of story.
Basically Lisa you can employ who you want, but give the correct notice.
Regards
Paul
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This is meaning for cases of gross misconduct, believe me stay within the law as far as employees go, if you think they are unsuitable after this 1 month period, give them a weeks notice and pay all holiday pay owed.
I'm confused now (easily done though). Do they need notice or not or is it just within one month.
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Hi Ali,
You are required by law to give 1 wks notice after one month of employment, please click on this link:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/02.htm
Regards
Paul
Oops sorry - wrong quote, I meant this one.
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One month or less no notice, up to one year 1 week, two years 2 weeks and so on, in alot of cases an employer will pay the notice and let the employee leave on the day the decision is made.
Regards
Paul
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Ta Paul
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Hi yer
Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.
I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting. Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.
Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go. Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e
Regards
Graham
Graham,
Your filling Lisa full of nonsense, appeal ;D ;D, the member of staff has worked for less than one month, even if they had worked for Lisa for nine months, all she would need to do is draft a simple letter explaining she/he isnt suitable for employment, in this case no notice is required, end of story.
Basically Lisa you can employ who you want, but give the correct notice.
Regards
Paul
OOOPS!
Here you go Graham lets get this one back to the top....
For some one who has a 10k weekly wage bill you havent got a clue ;D
remember NO NOTICE for 1 month or less ;) do you agree????
Does Lisa really need a witness???? no she doesnt!
Appeal???? no Graham no appeal.
And b4 anyone trys to have ago at me for posting this please dont, its not because I think i'm always right, or my male ego, cause i'm/its not, Graham has tried and failed to discredit me on the sick pay post, i'm just doing the same.
Regards
Paul
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Hi yer
Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.
I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting. Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.
Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go. Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e
Regards
Graham
Graham,
Your filling Lisa full of nonsense, appeal ;D ;D, the member of staff has worked for less than one month, even if they had worked for Lisa for nine months, all she would need to do is draft a simple letter explaining she/he isnt suitable for employment, in this case no notice is required, end of story.
Basically Lisa you can employ who you want, but give the correct notice.
Regards
Paul
OOOPS!
Here you go Graham lets get this one back to the top....
For some one who has a 10k weekly wage bill you havent got a clue ;D
remember NO NOTICE for 1 month or less ;) do you agree????
Does Lisa really need a witness???? no she doesnt!
Appeal???? no Graham no appeal.
And b4 anyone trys to have ago at me for posting this please dont, its not because I think i'm always right, or my male ego, cause i'm/its not, Graham has tried and failed to discredit me on the sick pay post, i'm just doing the same.
Regards
Paul
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Sorry Graham 10k per wk was way under your wage bill, its about £22,000 isnt it ;D
Do you record all your staff disciplinary interviews?
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Hi, well i guess her hard work was all a put on because she knew we were assessing her last week.
Shes back to old habits and customers do not trust her, and they do not like her, and they are not sure she is up to the job and they dont think her standards are good enough.
I'm very lucky to have customers, who are also friends - at the moment.
Her feedback from the customers isn't looking good. She is now fired! well when i call a meeting on Monday she is so FIRED!! ;D
Even though I'm a self employed window cleaner, I've followed this thread with some interest as I've been on both sides of this equation in the past. So how did it go on Monday?
I haven't done cleaning in peoples homes but I have cleaned smallish offices as a keyholder usually as a P.A.Y.E. employee. I have done various offices over the years mostly on PAYE to supplement my window cleaning income. I've never lost a job yet due to anything I did or didn't do (or at least not as far as I know) but I have lost jobs when the customer has closed down, gone elsewhere for their cleaning or just decided to do it themselves. I have found that, as I have done this work out of hours, a communication book is essential. Interestingly, the communication book seems to be used several times in the first two or three weeks and then very little thereafter. It can take a little while to discover what a customer's pet hates are. I find that it is often necessary to prioritise tasks which sometimes means leaving the less noticeable stuff to be done less frequently. This can happen if the employer is trying to remain competitive and wants to keep the time taken (and therefore the quote) down. If one of these less noticeable items is something that happens to bug a customer, then it will be noted by them in the book. If that happens, the task gets upgraded onto my higher priority list (which I keep in my head). On the rare occasions that I have been given a written job spec, I have sometimes found that to do all the tasks listed at the frequency required is just unrealistic and feel that it is often listed that way to impress the customer. Of course it could be that I am exceptionally slow but I have seen others work and I reckon I'm about average speedwise.
Anyway, as I asked at the beginning, how did it go on Monday?
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I learned a hard lesson way back at the beginning when I employed someone throu the jobcentre. She was as nice as pise, had good references from previous cleaning jobs and I thought I was doing the right thing. She lasted 3 weeks, was completely useless, took a day off with all sorts of excuses every week and lost me 2 clients.
I made a vow never to take on anyone who I didn't know, or was recommended to me. AND I also make sure that the people I employ actually love cleaning. To them they are earning a few bob from doing somwething they enjoy.
I have 4 regular girls and 2 that step in and they have all been with me at least 6 months up to 2 years. I do have the odd moment with the youngest who is 18, and sometimes she 'forgets' to clean behind a door or under a table, but apart from that she is a good cleaner.
I also have one who occassionally lets me down at the last minute, but again she is an excellent cleaner and fast too.
I make sure I get to know them personally, and think it is as important to be their 'friend' as well as their boss. If you know as much about their personal life (because you have developed a good personal relationship) as you do their working life you will know if they are pulling a fast one.
Some people say don't employ friends or relations etc, but it has worked for me and is still working ;)
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Hi all
thanks for the input.
We had to re-do a clients bathroom as it wasnt up to standards, and felt that we had enough of this shoddy work.
All geared up at the meeting to say what had happened, and well out the words came.
"I have to tell you that i'm 3 months preggo"
bit of a shock! anyway, still don't think her work is up to standard. She wants to leave in August, so we could just see if she improves, i think the excuses might start rolling out, "cant lift the hoover etc"
Next meeting will be interesting.
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Hi Lisa,
It doesnt matter if the employee is pregnant, if you want rid you can without any notice, if her period of work go's over the 1 month and less than a year you are required by law to give her 1 weeks notice.
Regards
BSF
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If we give her a weeks notice, how do we work out hol pay that is owed? and what happens if she doesn't want to work her final week?, or does a really bad job, or just doesn't turn up??
she started with us on 20th march, so thats four weeks, or does it go by calender month?
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Its Calendar month Lisa, if it was after the month and she didn’t work the 1 weeks notice you wouldn’t pay her for it, holiday pay has to be paid, for example if she works 20hrs per wk, that’s 80hrs minimum entitlement per year, 80 divided by 52 wks is 1.54 hrs entitlement per wk, so 4 wks worked, you owe her 6.16 hrs multiplied by her hourly rate, if it was £5.50 it would be £33.88 pay her the amount in her final pay and forward the p45, just adjust the working out if you need to work out a daily holiday pay rate ie: 80hrs divided by 365 x number of days employed,
I think I’m right, I’m sure someone will tell me if I’m not, someone else does this for me.
The figure’s ive quoted are only if you pay 4wks including bank holidays as I do.
Regards
BSF
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Hi Thanks for your advise, i really appreciate it.
I have until the 19th then to ask her to leave. Pay her when we next have a pay day and include any acruued holiday entitlement. I'll then also include a P45. I didnt sent off her P45 when she gave it to me, but as she isn't entitled to PAYE i assumed it didnt need to be sent.
4 weeks inc bank hol is what she is contracted.
So she has worked for 4 weeks to date and has worked 4.25 hours week 1
4.75 hours week 2
5.50 hours week 3
4.50 hours week 4
how do i work that out?
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When I take someone on I send a letter explaining basic terms and conditions of employment, I state what the trial period is, hourly rate, hours/days of work, contracted weekly hours, holiday entitlement, overtime rate... etc etc, what hours did you agree with the employee?
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no minimum hours and no maximum hours, its a zero hour contract, does this make any difference? It does state that holiday entitlement is to be paid, just not sure how to work it out on the above weekly hrs worked. ???
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Add the total hrs worked, then divide by number of weeks to get the average weekly hours, then multiply by the hourly rate.
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Thanks BSF
I think all the easter eggs have gone to my brain ;D
Thanks for all your help, its most appreciated.
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just a thought - if she is 3 months pregnant is she ok to work with chemicals and as you say lisa should she be lifting hoovers regularly ? as i say just a thought- not a problem we've encountered yet :-\ these things may sound like excuses from her but watch your health and safety stuff
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i was worried about her lifting hoovers especially upstairs, some of these hoovers are very heavy and bulky, might have to put her onto other duties, not sure what though.
She should be ok with chemicals as long as the areas are well ventilated, and she uses gloves and dust mask when required.
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Don’t forget to work out her entitlement though, then go ahead and do the relevant calculations, this post wasn’t very clear:
Add the total hrs worked, then divide by number of weeks to get the average weekly hours, then multiply by the hourly rate.
Normally zero hour contracts are worked out on the previous 12 wks worked.
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Fire Her! But the way I would do it that I will call her up and set up a meeting with her and discuss the issue with her for no more than 10-15 min.
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Hi all
SHES GONE!
she sensed we wanted her out, and she wanted to leave anyway! so.....
sacked her a couple weeks ago, and although we are extremely busy, at least we know we are doing the jobs properly now.
The thing is, we are getting more and more enquiries and so will have to find a new member of staff soon, here we go again......... ;D
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Hi all
SHES GONE!
she sensed we wanted her out, and she wanted to leave anyway! so.....
Congratulations. Good job she was a bit sensitive. I had her down as managing director within 3 months.... ;D ;D