Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian_Giles on March 23, 2006, 06:54:06 pm
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So who always thinks that what they haven’t got is better than what they have got?
For many years now most of my work has been commercial, my daily bread and butter has been shop fronts and many window cleaners envy those doing work such as I’ve been doing over the years.
Easy money innit? No ladders, couple of panes of glass, all done in a couple of minutes, £3.50 please love and on to the next shop…sorted! ;D
Well no, not really; it took bloody years to build up lots of these shop fronts and I don’t have enough of them that I can do just these and nothing else.
For the most part the work itself is pretty easy but shops are a real bind on your time.
You have to be as regular as clockwork, when you have enough of them to be considered worthwhile you also have to get up very early to get around things like parking restrictions, shops that open early and need the insides doing before they can put their display in, shops that you have to get done before the punters start shopping and so on.
Collecting can also drive you potty, >:( there are times (often) when you are queuing longer for your money than it takes you to clean the windows in the first place.
They are the hardest fought for accounts too, they are usually very loyal to you, but shops don’t stay in business as long as you might think! :o
You can’t just keep putting up your prices either, at say, £2.50 for a small shop front it will only take you about a minute and a half to do, you just can’t put them up year on year, for one thing they would dump you pronto, there is always a choice of at least 2 or 3 others that work most town centres and they’ll be only too happy to take them off you!! :'(
They are a bind in that if you want a holiday you have to arrange cover for them, they’re worse than pets!! :-\ (except you don’t have to feed them)! 8)
The other week I was up at 5am and in work for about 6.30am (well I have to wake up properly ::)) and I’d finished cleaning my shops by 9-9.30am Cup of tea, a roll and a quick read of the paper. It’s now coming up to 10am and time to do all my collections, this takes at least 45 minutes to get done, then it is up the road to a couple of other shops in a different part of town, it’s only 10 minutes worth of work, but by the time you take in travelling time it’s another 20 minutes.
What with one thing and another it is close to 11.30am before I can get going to some domestic work.
I start them at 12pm and I’m all done and back home for 3.15pm
It took me from 6.30am up until 11.30am (5 hours) for the shops in total (including a 30 minute break) it took from 12pm until 3pm to clean the domestic accounts.
The money earned was almost identical from both the domestic and commercial work, the domestic earned me 50p more…in 2 hours less.
But the kicker was that after being home for 15 more minutes I had to go off and do just 2 shops worth £11.00 between them….the shops were 8 miles away and have to be done every week.
A real bind…
My best accounts are the medium sized offices and a few pubs, I’m talking about the kind of jobs that would take you about 5 hours using trad, now these are brilliant! I only wish I had a round full of them.
With WFP, what took 5 hours can be done in an hour and a half and you charge the same as you did before..top banana!! ;D
You want the really big accounts?
3 or 4 days worth for 2 men?
You keep em’ then, you’re welcome to them, eggs and baskets spring to mind!
My next best accounts are my domestics, maybe it is because I am now WFP, but I can make more money in a day doing these than I can doing shop fronts.
Collecting is a pain no matter whether you are doing shops or domestic, but with the domestic work, if they are not in then I expect them to post me a cheque, either with the S.A.E. I provide them with or under their own steam.
That is actually working really well too, God, but I hated going out doing collections!! >:(
So for me the greenest grass is the medium size office block, followed by well priced domestic and then the shop fronts coming in last, not that they are bad of course, they’ve paid my bills for a couple of decades, but the bind of them gets me down at times.
Another problem with shops is that when there is a change, such as the customer deciding that they want them done every 2 weeks instead of every week it can make quite a difference in your earnings too.
So bring on the domestics! Let me squirrel out a few more offices (and of course you don’t mind travelling a fair old distance if you are going to knock out £120 in an hour and a half!! ;)) I reckon I know which side of the fence has the greenest grass!!!! 8)
Ian
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Another great posting Ian. Wow, that opened my eyes a bit. I used to look at the boys doing the shop fronts with envy(mainly because they would be at it in all weathers) as i have been driving home as the heavens have opened. I have always suspected though that domestic(99%) of my round just can't be a bad thing in as much as, like you said...shop owners "can" come and go much quicker rate than the average home owner hangs around. Also, to have my eggs in so many baskets can't be a bad thing either. All domestic cleaners know that of course we are gonna lose customers now and then but on average, for everyone that moves on, we replace it with a better priced job. Maybe even two better paid jobs. I stopped canvassing about 8-9 years ago and i would say the round has naturally doubled just by people stopping and asking me to clean their houses.
Despite all i've said above....I still love a good moan through the course of a day. It get's me through ;)
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Dino
He has posted that to scare his opposition off. ;D
Where shops come into there own is in bad weather, because you are turning up the same day no matter the weather.
As for collecting, i issue my shops with an invoice after 8 cleans, then it is up to them to send me a cheque or have one waiting for me on my next visit.
I have never let collecting become an issue as i never do it.
There have been times i have earnt £100 in lashing rain on shops,and i am thankful i could earn that much on those days, as it would be more difficult on domestics.
Dave
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Oh he aint doin the ol' Black Cab trick is he???? You know...."you'll never make a living at it mate...no work out there...bla bla bla"
Having said that....when i get roadsweepers, dustmen etc etc etc looking at me wfp'ing i just know sometimes that they can see £££ signs ringing like the bells of St Clemence. Then they ask me how much the trolley cost. I normally say £2K at least + another couple of K for all the "other" stuff, just to put them off.
Having said THAT i got chatting to a traditional shiner yesterday who looked at me with the same "adoring" eyes and i told him as it is. He took down Andrew's website off the trolley, tele No and i told him about this site, so i'm not a totall mizzog. Just like looking after my own :)
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Dave is right about being able to clean them in the rain, and in conditions you wouldn't dream of doing so with domestic work!
But I do way too many shops to leave it 8 cleans between invoicing and then to rely on them sending me a cheque.
Blow that for a game of soldiers :o
The shops are my banker accounts, but they ARE a bind, and on the days when it isn't raining cat and dogs (and that isn't very often) they are now beginning to hold me back, or to at least make my working day a bloody long one :'(
I don't mind competition for the shops, it's just such a pain that my prices have barely changed in 15 years, we all compete for the new shops, thats never going to change, Squeaks is slowly gaining a few shops too, but it's an ebb and flow thing.
The one local window cleaner to me that really has it spot on is Roy Harding, almost all domestic for Roy and he earns very good money indeed as a result.
There was a time when I just didn't know how he did it, but I now have a few days when I can almost match his turnover on domestic accounts.
And I know that as time passes I shall have more days of a similar nature.
After 22 years I am now really enjoying cleaning houses again, and I really never thought I would be in a position to say that. ;)
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Ian
Do you collect after every clean
Could you not bill them after 4 cleans.
If you weigh up your time, instead of waiting in a queue etc you could be down the road earning more money.
It works for me, and my debt list never goes over £3000
Dave
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Problem with shop fronts is that they still have to be done when you are on holiday. So who would do them?
Steve
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Dave,
I collect once a week, some of the shops are twice weekly, although I do collect a couple as I do them if they have the insides done.
I also have a couple where I wait a few weeks between collections, a couple more that are invoiced monthly (they are a pain, usually need to follow up with a phone call or two to hurry them along)
But by and large, where the main bunch of my shops are concerned I collect them all on the same day of the week, it's easier that way, and rather than wait several cleans between collecting them, by doing it weekly ensures good cashflow.
Also of course if a shop that is, say, £2.50 a clean goes belly up of does a moonlight flit (it happens) I'm only down £2.50 and not ten or fifteen quid.
I've had a few go bust on me over the years and I'd rather limit the damage as much as I can!!!
Ian
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....and my debt list never goes over £3000
:o 3 grand!
I think I'm owed about £25!
Ian, if it's getting you down I'll ease the burden for you.... ;D
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....and my debt list never goes over £3000
:o 3 grand!
I think I'm owed about £25!
Ian, if it's getting you down I'll ease the burden for you.... ;D
So you want to help Ian out with his wfp jobs then squeeaky, glad to see you are finally helping out your window cleaning buddies 8)
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2 Years ago Rog I very nearly offered you all my shops :o
But I got off ladders, saved my knees and re-found my enthusiasm for the job ;)
If I pick up enough of the right type of domestic accounts I might even offer to offload a few in your direction ;)
It would be nice not to have to get up at 5am 3 days a week (sometimes 4!!) 8)
Ian
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Years ago {during the war} I used to do a lot of shop fronts as Ian has said it can pay well. And has highlight the pros and cons.
But I felt the early mornings and been tied to having to do them or have them covered while on holidays, was not for me. So I passed them on to another window cleaner.
I wanted my work to fit around me and my family, and if I feel like a lie in I can. However I’m always up about 7:30am and like to be at my first job normally about 9.00am. Naomi my wife often says have a day off if I’m ill or bad back or so, but I probably still go to work even if my leg was hanging off. I think window cleaning is the best job I’ve ever had, every day a pay day, and its what you make it that count’s.
Are you happy window cleaning? {the grass is always greener}
If you do enjoy window cleaning you will do well, if not move on.
If you feel shops or residential or commercial is the way, put in the time to pick up the work you want. Tosh wanted more commercial and took positive steps to mail shot prospective customers. As for Ian I remember him with quite a large work force and thinking hell he’s doing well.
I’m happy with my round but the grass can always look greener sometimes.
Roy
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i personally dont do any shop fronts simply because everyone else seems to compete for them at low prices. but i do do quite a few offices above them with the R&W and earn decent money because of this.also why compete for £2.50-£5.00 jobs that you have to get up at the crack of dawn for.I would sooner get up much later and knock out domestics at decent prices(3 bed semi £10-12,4 bed detahed £12 -£20 we as window cleaners are our own worst enimies at times,charging to little- be proud of your occupation and charge accordingly.turnover is vanity profit is sanity,steve d
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I'm getting wfp soon and have started to look for windows that i couldn't do trad.
And looking around for a more profitable market.
Putting a financial spin on shops Vs domestic is a real eye opener. I'd assumed the opposite all along. The people who need it the most actually pay the least. Wow!! ???
Are there any types of domestic that you think are the most profitable? Or is concentration and a normal price the key?
And also, if quoting on a 4+ hour domestic do you price it by how long it would take you doing it trad, or somewhere between that and the time taken with wfp?
mark
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mark,small/medium modern offices ground/1 floor are the best but take time to establish.on the domestic side i try to aim for newer estates with plastic frames as they are easier to clean and charge the same as i was charging when we used to use ladders-you definately clean quicker,once you have got the hang of r&w but you have more overheads and why would you want to lower your prices.remember buying a r&w is not cheap and you can justify this to your customers by saying you have invested a lot of money.
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my shops equate to £30+ an hour and if i have to wait 8 cleans for payment that is no bother to me.
If you think of the interest in the bank that would equate to pence ,the late payers i put them up by a pound a clean to cover there late payment.
My philosophy as always been let them pay when they want.
Then charge for the inconvenience of late payment, its no big deal the customers love it, but at the end of the day i am winning.
they love the credit line even ifg it costs them more in the long run.
Just think of how banks operate
Dave
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I do mainly large domestic houses and earn decent money from them.
But... On Wednesday I did my first commercial job. A small office 2nd and 3rd floor windows inside and out. I started at 7am and was finished at 11:15am. £250 thank you very much! :D
Guess what I'm going to try and get more of!
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crikey that was good. was that all trad or wfp/trad what a little corker of a job 3 of them a week would be good for me. can i ask how you arrived at the price? just starting out and dont know how to price up commercial jobs (or dom) did you do all work yourself as well? think the way to go is a bit of everything so you get to see all sorts, eggs in one basket etc etc?
regards
paul ;D ;D ;D
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It works for me, and my debt list never goes over £3000
Dave
Blimey!
You need to get out collecting with a baseball bat if your debt list starts getting close to 3K!
My debt list only ever gets to £300 when I've been slacking on my collecting!
Dave, give me your round.
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no chance i get first dibbs my reply before yours ;D ;D
but 3k :-\ :-\
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I do not collect at all, i just wait for it to arrive by cheque or wait till i catch up with the customer.
My money is safe, i only ever get stung if some one dies.
I have had customers forget when they move house and wrote the debt off only for them to knock my door 6 months later with payment and an apology.
Most of my customers are fairly well off pensioners who live in £500'000 plus houses who are honestly realy nice people.
I got rid of the bad ones years ago.
I am not spending unneccessary time and petrol collecting 4 hours a week.
Add that time up over 8 years and that equates to a lot of un paid time
Dave
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My money is safe, i only ever get stung if some one dies.
Dave
I've even had a note thru recently saying
"I'm sorry to inform you that Mum (elderly customer) died suddenly last week, enclosed is a cheque for your last clean....."
I'm pleasantly surprised by the honesty and integrity of the vast majority of my customers.
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my shops equate to £30+ an hour and if i have to wait 8 cleans for payment that is no bother to me.
Dave
This is a very good rate to be on.
Is this a better or worse rate than your domestics, or the same?
Great post. I'm starting to question some of my accounts now.
Is there anyone else out there who can earn or top this rate (outside london) by doing shop fronts?
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Mark
I look at my round in 2 parts.
I have an "A" list and a "B" list.
Everything on the A list is done by myself and it equates to £30+ an hour.
This work includes all my commercial and a lot of big houses.
The B list which comprises of estates and the awkward out of the way stuff is done by wife and my employee and the best they can do is between £30- £50 an hour between them. (they must be up to something).
All my work is done by wfp.
Remember these prices are the end product of 8 years work.
When i first started out i thought £10 hour was a good rate, you live and learn.
In one sense i was lucky ,i bought a real quality round with excellent customers ,a lot of them were underpriced but i inched them up over the years without losing to many (only the ones i wanted rid of anyway).
I am definately the dearest around here but that does not seem to bother anyone.
Hope this helps
Dave
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Everyone would like to doing shops comercial work i suppose its every window cleaners dream
Down the road from me theres shops and a small market place ive counted at least 5 different window cleaners and thats not even in Nottingham town center. All the comercial work round our area is so tied up you cant get a look in
I mainly stick with residential as you know where you stand ok you get the odd one move out plus the odd funny customer but this kind of work comes in the bucket loads.
And now with wfp you can get the tops done quicker
Brett
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Remember these prices are the end product of 8 years work.
Hope this helps
Dave
Thats a good point about 8 years work.
This topic has come up at the right time for me. I'm trying to think ahead a little bit.
cheers
mark
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Is there anyone else out there who can earn or top this rate (outside london) by doing shop fronts?
My shops are only £30's worth, but they take me 25-30 mins.
So that's closer to £50 p/h.
I do them with a squeegee mind..... :)
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Is there anyone else out there who can earn or top this rate (outside london) by doing shop fronts?
My shops are only £30's worth, but they take me 25-30 mins.
So that's closer to £50 p/h.
I do them with a squeegee mind..... :)
;D
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Is there anyone else out there who can earn or top this rate (outside london) by doing shop fronts?
My shops are only £30's worth, but they take me 25-30 mins.
So that's closer to £50 p/h.
I do them with a squeegee mind..... :)
Rog
If you had a wfp, your be able to work the other 30 minutes and earn even more. ;)