Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Oliver James on March 09, 2014, 07:35:01 am
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Have been experimenting with high flow.
I've averaged the change in timings (to do the work) over 6 properties (3 largeish 3 bed semi's, the front of a victorian detached, a 4 bed detached and a five bed detached) and this is what I've found.
The average time for these properties was 34.5 mins on high flow (about 45-50) and 37.5 mins on low flow (about 30). Pls note that my service includes the doors, the white of the upvc of the connie guttering and any ground floor fascias and guttering at the front of the house.
Here are some pro's and cons of high flow:
Pro's
Is faster. Increased speed of 8.5% translates to about £14 extra a day.
Is less stressfull. You don't have to re-check the glass so much because you know the sheet of water that is going down the glass has done the job right.
Less tiring for the operator
Con's
Uses more water - but not as much as you would expect. Am getting through half a 650L tank instead of one third.
You can sometimes get very high flow when you turn the tap on due to the back pressure building up. This carries with it an associated risk of the overspray loosening dirt from the bricks and mortar of the window reveal.
One way around this is to open the tap with the brush in the middle of the window and then work towards the edges of the window as the flow gets back to its usual volume.
Another way to deal with overspray is to hold the brush very close to the glass when rinsing.
Would be interested to hear from any high flow users on here.
How do you find it and what techniques do you use to maximise efficiency?
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Yup Ive increased my flow last few months ... not done it scientifically like you but used to work on approx 30 flow now use 50 to 55 ... defo quicker and prob uses an extra 100 litres a day but my earnings have prob increased by about 20%.
Water costs me just under £6 ish per 1000 litres to produce inc waste so 100 litres a day extra costs 60p.
If say 2 jobs to go and enough water then whack em up to 75 ;D
Do a HUGE mansion near me every 3 months which would take 5 to 6 man hours to do on low flow did it last week on the higher flow and job was done in under 4 man hours .... had to keep running it thru my head in case we had missed a whole section out ;D
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I started out with a backpack, so I habitiually was trying to save water.
I then moved up to a van system (350LTR) with a controller. I thought I could speed up with a higher flow so I disconnected the controller.
This caused a problem with running out of water mid afternoon.
I now use an Aquadapter, a double Di in the van and top up if need be from customers taps.
I reckon I am cleaning an extra two 4 bed detached per day.
Soon to get a 500 Ltr tank.
High flow all the way for me.
My tds is 35ish so water is cheap
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I dont understand some wfp operators who use a small flow, and spend ages rinsing. Just use the correct flow for the job. So if you need higher flow and can get through the work faster, you can make more money.
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Pencil jet s at 65 or 70 on the controller. Flushes down hydrophobic like niagra.. Was very careful on the water use front when I started and was rinse rinse rinse. Always leaving spots..
Now its frames, vertical rub, horizontal rub quick zig zag rinse on the glass.
on first cleans I ramp it up to full flow..
Im using about 300L a day. and Im happy as I have a 600L tank..
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You shouldn't have a build up of pressure at all. If you do you haven't got your DE setup correctly.
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what controllers are you using? i have varistream
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high-ish flow for a really thorough scrub. Turn the flow up, cover the top with a good slow rinse along, then away you go follow the cascade of water :)
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High flow has nothing to do with speed.
I reduced my flow by half and doubled my speed by just having faith in the method.
Hold your brush in one spot and watch how the water bounces off the glass with a high flow
most of it never even hits the glass.
Stop wasting water and have faith in the method, the scrub removes most of the dirt and a quick rinse
removes the rest.
If anything the fact that the water was no longer splashing over everything helped me speed up.
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DOUBLED UR SPEED BY REDUCING YOUR FLOW!!!!
Seems like a slight exaggeration ;D
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High flow has nothing to do with speed.
I reduced my flow by half and doubled my speed by just having faith in the method.
Hold your brush in one spot and watch how the water bounces off the glass with a high flow
most of it never even hits the glass.
Stop wasting water and have faith in the method, the scrub removes most of the dirt and a quick rinse
removes the rest.
If anything the fact that the water was no longer splashing over everything helped me speed up.
I suppose its whatever works for you! If it works use it. if it doesn't look for an alternative..
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1mm pencil jets aka clarkes 1mm welding tips fit perfectly into gardiners brushes and enable me to work with a flow rate of 30 . Mike
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As a newbie I started with 60 and now find 50 is about right for me but I've still not done an auto calibration of the system yet and I too get that instant push when I turn the tap back on after having it closed and making the system go into de!
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Employ the correct method, use the right tools & you don't have to rely on recreating the Niagara falls to do a spotless job in record time!!
If you are relying on a high flow to do a good job then you aint doing the job right to begin with IMO.
Optimal flow is what you should be working with. ;)
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DOUBLED UR SPEED BY REDUCING YOUR FLOW!!!!
Seems like a slight exaggeration ;D
Never said I doubled my speed by reducing my flow.
I doubled my speed by cleaning quicker and at the same time reduced my flow by half.
This made no difference to the quality of the clean.
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DOUBLED UR SPEED BY REDUCING YOUR FLOW!!!!
Seems like a slight exaggeration ;D
Never said I doubled my speed by reducing my flow.
I doubled my speed by cleaning quicker and at the same time reduced my flow by half.
This made no difference to the quality of the clean.
i would certainly have to agree with trust the method :)
im finally doing this and reaping the rewards!
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does it matter what the flow is, what the method is .. as long as the glass dries clean who really cares..
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I personally don't think its that simple.
I like a high flow when rinsing as it saves water and time. Where I find I waste water is on the scrubbing and washing phase of the clean, especially if there is some stubborn dirt or dried bird poo.
I also think that there is a rinsing time difference between rinsing on the glass and off the glass. If you are confident of rinsing well without lifting then rinsing will be quicker. I also think that a blendy pole with more flex won't help toward a faster clean and rinse as will a heavy brush on the end of it.
On the other hand a heavy brush will clean a window quicker but will slow you down later as you expend more energy and get tired quicker.
In the early days we used Unger ali poles with heavy Vikan brushes, 1/2" garden hose, 3mm jets and no flow controller. By 2.30 in the afternoon I had used 375 litres in the trailer and an extra 100 litres of water on the van.
When we changed to minibore and a Varistream controller, the same Vikan brush but with 2mm jets, we worked slower due to a restricted rinsing flow, but at 3.00 on the same round we still had water on the trailer even although cleaning the same houses took a little longer. We did save time with easier hose management. Also, having 100 meters of hose meant that we could do more houses without moving the trailer.
I was able to work until 5.30 and still have water to spare. At the end of the day I had done more houses so earnt more even although each house took slightly longer.
What I would like is a 2 phase system that reduces water on the washing and scrubbing phase and increases it on the rinsing phase.
I also believe working smarter is a good way to work quicker, its more than just washing and rinsing a window. My son uses a backpack. His brush has 1.4mm jets. I hate them as rinsing is so slow, but he saves a lot of setup time. Doing houses he is quicker than I am as managing the hoses take a large portion of my cleaning time. However, that doesn't apply if he has a long run of windows on say a commercial clean. What took him 4 hours with his backpack takes me 1 1/2 hours with a hose and good flow.
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I don`t try to save water and never have spotting at all. I have a 100psi 7 liter a min pump and there is only one speed full bore. I have the belief that you float dirt of the glass and to do this is having rate to achieve this. So no to saving water.
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Have been experimenting with high flow.
I've averaged the change in timings (to do the work) over 6 properties (3 largeish 3 bed semi's, the front of a victorian detached, a 4 bed detached and a five bed detached) and this is what I've found.
The average time for these properties was 34.5 mins on high flow (about 45-50) and 37.5 mins on low flow (about 30). Pls note that my service includes the doors, the white of the upvc of the connie guttering and any ground floor fascias and guttering at the front of the house.
Here are some pro's and cons of high flow:
Pro's
Is faster. Increased speed of 8.5% translates to about £14 extra a day.
Is less stressfull. You don't have to re-check the glass so much because you know the sheet of water that is going down the glass has done the job right.
Less tiring for the operator
Increase the flow more for further benefits, but firstly you need to get rid of the cons that go with that.
Con's
Uses more water - but not as much as you would expect. Am getting through half a 650L tank instead of one third.
This is only because you are using more water than needed to clean the window. There is no reason whatsoever that you should be using more water. You need to have the confidence to stop when the window has had enough.
You can sometimes get very high flow when you turn the tap on due to the back pressure building up. This carries with it an associated risk of the overspray loosening dirt from the bricks and mortar of the window reveal.
Like someone says earlier something needed adjusted, extra pressure built up in the system is not good for the hoses etc. When you first turn on it should be the same pressure as when your using it.
Another way to deal with overspray is to hold the brush very close to the glass when rinsing.
You want to make sure when the brush is on the glass that all the water is contained within the brush and you only have a steady stream coming from the bottom of the brush.
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I like a high flow ,but I don't need the water flowing 20 feet from the brush ,so iI use 4 2mm pencil jets ,
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You wont have it flowing 20 feet from the brush, a sheet of glass will be in the way.
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Whether you sit the brush on the glass or lift it off ,high flow 77 for me and 2 x 1mm jets the pressure causes a lot of spray ,as we don't power wash all you need is to get the water on to the glass in sufficient amount to wash the dirt off the glass ,less pressure more flow
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I personally don't think its that simple.
I like a high flow when rinsing as it saves water and time. Where I find I waste water is on the scrubbing and washing phase of the clean, especially if there is some stubborn dirt or dried bird poo.
I also think that there is a rinsing time difference between rinsing on the glass and off the glass. If you are confident of rinsing well without lifting then rinsing will be quicker. I also think that a blendy pole with more flex won't help toward a faster clean and rinse as will a heavy brush on the end of it.
On the other hand a heavy brush will clean a window quicker but will slow you down later as you expend more energy and get tired quicker.
In the early days we used Unger ali poles with heavy Vikan brushes, 1/2" garden hose, 3mm jets and no flow controller. By 2.30 in the afternoon I had used 375 litres in the trailer and an extra 100 litres of water on the van.
When we changed to minibore and a Varistream controller, the same Vikan brush but with 2mm jets, we worked slower due to a restricted rinsing flow, but at 3.00 on the same round we still had water on the trailer even although cleaning the same houses took a little longer. We did save time with easier hose management. Also, having 100 meters of hose meant that we could do more houses without moving the trailer.
I was able to work until 5.30 and still have water to spare. At the end of the day I had done more houses so earnt more even although each house took slightly longer.
What I would like is a 2 phase system that reduces water on the washing and scrubbing phase and increases it on the rinsing phase.
I also believe working smarter is a good way to work quicker, its more than just washing and rinsing a window. My son uses a backpack. His brush has 1.4mm jets. I hate them as rinsing is so slow, but he saves a lot of setup time. Doing houses he is quicker than I am as managing the hoses take a large portion of my cleaning time. However, that doesn't apply if he has a long run of windows on say a commercial clean. What took him 4 hours with his backpack takes me 1 1/2 hours with a hose and good flow.
We have developed a wash/rinse controller with radio remote. The control has a feature that allows you to set a higher flow rate. This flow rate can then be changed using the radio remote.
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Don't buy in to this theory either that high flow reduces time, if anything it makes you rush the job and not be thorough, I rinse on the glass unless it's a new clean then it's pencils only, flocked brush and rinse off on full flow.
Only do sills on first time cleans although frames get done every time. I won't rinse on and clean sills as it takes dirt to the next window, if the customer complains about sills I tell them I'll do them now and again for extra money, I do check the sills now and again and they don't really get that dirty as the regular washing of the windows every month gives them a swill, surprising how clean they look once dry.
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well ive been running 50-60 but today finally bothered to do the auto cal thing and as soon as i done it 50 was splashing off so turned it down to 40-43 max and thats been spot on for me with the setting c29 i think and also its not doing the pressure build up thing when i turn the flow tap back on!
much better now
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don't need high flow to do a fast good job :P
;) ;) ;) ;)
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Use a tap - no need for remote control doo dahs. want more water (phase 1)? then open it up, want less water (phase 2) then throttle it back, want no water (phase 3) then close it off. Why waste money on a simple expensive on/off Aquadapter, why fiddle about with remote controls - not needed.
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aqua daptor with a high flow.you can turn the flow down if needed using the AD when doing ground floor windows on say delicate wooden windows.
aqua daptor is brilliant for controlling water flow and quicker than using a tap on pole or pole hose IMO.
a high flow is essential if you want to splash and dash on regular work. ;)
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How do you do that then?
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dave if you turn the wheel on the top end of the AD you can indeed reduce the flow a bit when needed.
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Didn't know that. Must be tricky at forty feet ???
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I don't know what you all fanny about for, I have a water stop connector on the end of my microbore!!
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i dont at 40 ft dave!as i have a pole hose tap on my 47 footer! ;D ;D
my aqua-daptor is on my main day to day 25 footer.i wouldnt be without it as it allows a very smooth control of water flow for me with minimum hassles.
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Whether you sit the brush on the glass or lift it off ,high flow 77 for me and 2 x 1mm jets the pressure causes a lot of spray ,as we don't power wash all you need is to get the water on to the glass in sufficient amount to wash the dirt off the glass ,less pressure more flow
It is all about the flow rate 1mm jets allow me to work at at a lower flow rate but giving the benefit of a higher flow rate thus saving wear and tear on the pump with less back up of pressure when in DE . Mike
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Whether you sit the brush on the glass or lift it off ,high flow 77 for me and 2 x 1mm jets the pressure causes a lot of spray ,as we don't power wash all you need is to get the water on to the glass in sufficient amount to wash the dirt off the glass ,less pressure more flow
It is all about the flow rate 1mm jets allow me to work at at a lower flow rate but giving the benefit of a higher flow rate thus saving wear and tear on the pump with less back up of pressure when in DE . Mike
If you dont mind me asking,where do you get your 1mm jets from?
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Whether you sit the brush on the glass or lift it off ,high flow 77 for me and 2 x 1mm jets the pressure causes a lot of spray ,as we don't power wash all you need is to get the water on to the glass in sufficient amount to wash the dirt off the glass ,less pressure more flow
It is all about the flow rate 1mm jets allow me to work at at a lower flow rate but giving the benefit of a higher flow rate thus saving wear and tear on the pump with less back up of pressure when in DE . Mike
If you dont mind me asking,where do you get your 1mm jets from?
Clarkes welding tips from machine mart, pack of 5 are about £3-£4 , fit straight in to the jet holes on gardiner brushes perfect, use the threaded end in much the same way as you do a barb and screw the jet hose on to it.
I now however, use gardiners 1.4 mm (thought I would give them a go when I ordered a new brush) and prefer them.
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Need high flow to do a good fast job :P
;) ;) ;) ;)