Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on February 27, 2014, 09:51:50 pm
-
after my little experiment with hot water over the last few months im beginning to ask myself is it worth the extra cost?
i spent extra money on a better more robust reel when a cheap £40 claber reel had done me for a few years with cold water no problem.
ive had more problems with hot water esp with pressure settings,hoses.then theres draining the heaters every night,blowing connectors,leaks,double clamping everything etc.
then the other day i worked with cold with my old claber reel and 100m of microbore and the hose was much more managable due to being much lighter and thinner than thermobore.i was no slower but defo a bit quicker due to easier hose management.
no pressure problems
no leaks
no money spent on gas
windows still came up great
no extra time spent scrubbing the windows.
on add on jobs i usually use virosol and connect to custies outside taps if they have one anyway.
apart from the comfort of having warm hoses and maybe easier to clean birdmuck off and snailtrails.i think hot water is a luxury.
i no we havent had a cold winter but ive been wfp for 4 years now and worked down to -2 before with cold with no problems apart from the odd iced up window and frozen jets.
your thoughts guys? ;D
dazmond
-
Exactly the same. Always turn mine off in the summer. You are rarely any quicker because your scrubbing/rinsing action remains identical.
-
Nice post, ppl make it out its the best thing since sliced bread and that if you haven't spent the money on it your missing out.
Good ohnest post,
-
I use hot water all year round, have done for over 5 years.
Never have any leaks, never have any problems due to hot water.
Still using the same thermobore & claber reel for nearly 3 years.
I would really miss having hot water everyday.
-
im going to be using hot water in the summer months
for con cleans etc i can see the benefit when muck is baked on of
the extra cleaning power
maintenance cleans i will cold as normal
As for the winter for me there just isnt any benefit,anything below
a couple of degrees below freezing i dont work due to safety concerns.
No doubt we will have many who will be along soon and who have
invested in a hot water system to justify to myself and especially
themselves how it is really essential. ;D
Much like the other dopey bleeders who think that buying lighter
and lighter poles for cleaning at lower levels will prevent RSI injury ;D
-
im going to be using hot water in the summer months
for con cleans etc i can see the benefit when muck is baked on of
the extra cleaning power
maintenance cleans i will cold as normal
As for the winter for me there just isnt any benefit,anything below
a couple of degrees below freezing i dont work due to safety concerns.
No doubt we will have many who will be along soon and who have
invested in a hot water system to justify to myself and especially
themselves how it is really essential. ;D
Much like the other dopey bleeders who think that buying lighter
and lighter poles for cleaning at lower levels will prevent RSI injury ;D
good post Gary ;)
-
the thing is gary virosol sprayed on a really dirty conny roof or fascias and left for a few mins does the same job! i normally plug into customers outside taps to save on pure plus you get a stronger flow of water from an outside tap speeding you up anyway! ;)
i dont agree on lighter poles not helping with RSI though.
i dont ache at all using 25 and 47 extremes.well worth the extra money for a lot less strain IMO.
-
Not aching doesnt mean you wont get RSI.
Typists etc dont lift heavy weights but are prone to RSI...its
the repetitive nature of the work that causes the strain not weight
same with poling for us windies especially at lower heights.
Obviously 25ft and over there is a argument for lighter poles
for better control and less strain but the average family home
the top windows must be only around 12ft,my personal opinion is
at those heights the extra cost brings little or no benefit.
Back on subject ;D im not going to invest heavily just a electric
water heater to be used when i think necessary :)
-
a lot of my work is not average 12 ft windows though gary!lots of awkward windows over extensions and roofs.some of my jobs i need a 25 ft pole at full stretch just to reach the top of the first floor windows! ;Dso extremes help a great deal in cutting down strain.
ON TOPIC ive not spent that much on a hot water system mate.im certainly glad i didnt spend £3000+ on a professional diesel heated system as i simply dont think the benefits are huge!
-
So there is something to be said for keeping things simple after all.
-
Nah don't buy that lighter poles won't help with RSI.
A lighter pole will reduce the strain on joints and wrists.
As for hot water it's a tool. I know people have been 15 years WFP COLD! Still not hot.
Hot has it uses
-
I agree, it is a luxury, but I like some of the luxuries in life. I think it more than pays for itself on Maintanance cleans and on first time or conny roofs it speeds things up dramatically.
As for hassle, if it's set up properly, ie john guest fittings ect it will be hassle free.
Simon.
-
Yeah I would agree with that.
My system (cold) is bone dry. It will be the same when it's hot.
-
I think a lot of wfp window cleaners just want the latest toys and forget that business
is all about making a profit.
If I'm going to spend £500 a year on gas plus more again on equipment then I want a return
on that money.
So far I haven't seen any evidence that hot will make me any quicker so I wont be investing in it.
Light poles are a good investment because with less weight you don't tire and slow down over
the day as quickly, this means you can get more properties cleaned.
Thanks for the honest review Dazmond.
-
after my little experiment with hot water over the last few months im beginning to ask myself is it worth the extra cost?
i spent extra money on a better more robust reel when a cheap £40 claber reel had done me for a few years with cold water no problem.
ive had more problems with hot water esp with pressure settings,hoses.then theres draining the heaters every night,blowing connectors,leaks,double clamping everything etc.
then the other day i worked with cold with my old claber reel and 100m of microbore and the hose was much more managable due to being much lighter and thinner than thermobore.i was no slower but defo a bit quicker due to easier hose management.
no pressure problems
no leaks
no money spent on gas
windows still came up great
no extra time spent scrubbing the windows.
on add on jobs i usually use virosol and connect to custies outside taps if they have one anyway.
apart from the comfort of having warm hoses and maybe easier to clean birdmuck off and snailtrails.i think hot water is a luxury.
i no we havent had a cold winter but ive been wfp for 4 years now and worked down to -2 before with cold with no problems apart from the odd iced up window and frozen jets.
your thoughts guys? ;D
dazmond
Is that a home made system?
-
totally agree with daz . its nice to keep hoses supple and my hands warm . don't think it cleans better though . I'm thinking of switching the gas off in summer too. money saved will pay for my much wanted extreme
-
Good to know i am not missing anything ;D ;D ;D , Never thought i was and have worked some really bad winters with cold system down to -3 and trudging through a foot of snow .
Once it gets down to -3 do you really want to be out at work anyway and most would'nt whether HOT or NOT . Mike
-
I think a lot of wfp window cleaners just want the latest toys and forget that business
is all about making a profit.
If I'm going to spend £500 a year on gas plus more again on equipment then I want a return
on that money.
So far I haven't seen any evidence that hot will make me any quicker so I wont be investing in it.
Light poles are a good investment because with less weight you don't tire and slow down over
the day as quickly, this means you can get more properties cleaned.
Thanks for the honest review Dazmond.
Completly agree there.
I was going to install a hot water system simply to make working in snow and minus conditions a bit more pleasent. Im glad i didnt now as we have had a very mild winter.
Saying that though, even in the snow and icey conditions two years prev i still managed to work with wfp, id have thought that if we had sustained minus 5 conditions for 3 months of the year that id have a different opinion.
Alot of window cleaners are suckers for marketing hype. You are right, the reason your in business is to make money, not buy loads of flashy doo dahh stuff. whats the point in working your backside off if your going to spend all your profits on flashy bits and bobs.
There is a local window cleaner that i sometimes stop and ave a chat with, he has a thermopure system, contantly tells me how much it cost him and how amazing it is, and then tells me how many issues he has had with it, especally the heater part of it.
-
its about making available tools work for you at various times, i switched my gas off this year has been to mild, but would use it for the first conny clean/ facia cleans of the year
-
its pretty cold here this morning.ice on my windscreen!all my jobs are 6 weekly commercial today with one domestic.offices on a main road first job off the day which will be dirty after the storms so im glad im using hot water today! ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
hmm to have warm hands in the winter must be lovely though
-
its pretty cold here this morning.ice on my windscreen!all my jobs are 6 weekly commercial today with one domestic.offices on a main road first job off the day which will be dirty after the storms so im glad im using hot water today! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Stop trying to justify it Daz, you have already told us it is crap!
;D
-
danny i wouldnt say its crap!do a google search of hot pure water and it does indeed clean much more effective at higher temperatures.has to be 60 degrees plus though to make a real difference which is just not possible in cold winter months unless you want to crack glass!! ;D ;D
its nicer to use than cold water but that is offset by the heavier hose you have to drag around! ;D ;D
-
Nah don't buy that lighter poles won't help with RSI.
A lighter pole will reduce the strain on joints and wrists.
As for hot water it's a tool. I know people have been 15 years WFP COLD! Still not hot.
Hot has it uses
I never said not buy a light pole...but the chase after lighter and lighter
poles for cleaning below 25ft whenthe difference in weight is incremental
but the cost isnt and their being a limit on beneft is pointless
The best way of reducing strain on wrists and joints is using the
tool correctly,as often as you can letting the whole body take the
strain rather than just your arms.
I agree hot is another tool..not essential but will have its uses :)
-
its pretty cold here this morning.ice on my windscreen!all my jobs are 6 weekly commercial today with one domestic.offices on a main road first job off the day which will be dirty after the storms so im glad im using hot water today! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Bloody turncoat ;D
-
hmm to have warm hands in the winter must be lovely though
Gloves ;D
-
Nah don't buy that lighter poles won't help with RSI.
A lighter pole will reduce the strain on joints and wrists.
As for hot water it's a tool. I know people have been 15 years WFP COLD! Still not hot.
Hot has it uses
I never said not buy a light pole...but the chase after lighter and lighter
poles for cleaning below 25ft whenthe difference in weight is incremental
but the cost isnt and their being a limit on beneft is pointless
The best way of reducing strain on wrists and joints is using the
tool correctly,as often as you can letting the whole body take the
strain rather than just your arms.
I agree hot is another tool..not essential but will have its uses :)
With the extreme you are buying weight and rigidity at the same time.
I use an 18ft extreme to clean hundreds of windows over extensions, conservatory roofs and porches. All of this is done at a angle. So with your logic i should just use a clx as its less than 25ft. I can tell you now an 18ft clx stretching over an extension is no fun whatsoever. It strains everything. When using an extreme i could do it one handed if i wanted too.
Anyways that's me done on the topic, as its about hot water not light poles.
You have your opinion i have mine mate :) :)
-
Just spent over £400 on an extreme 18
Glad I didn't spend it on hot ;D
-
Nah don't buy that lighter poles won't help with RSI.
A lighter pole will reduce the strain on joints and wrists.
As for hot water it's a tool. I know people have been 15 years WFP COLD! Still not hot.
Hot has it uses
I never said not buy a light pole...but the chase after lighter and lighter
poles for cleaning below 25ft whenthe difference in weight is incremental
but the cost isnt and their being a limit on beneft is pointless
The best way of reducing strain on wrists and joints is using the
tool correctly,as often as you can letting the whole body take the
strain rather than just your arms.
I agree hot is another tool..not essential but will have its uses :)
With the extreme you are buying weight and rigidity at the same time.
I use an 18ft extreme to clean hundreds of windows over extensions, conservatory roofs and porches. All of this is done at a angle. So with your logic i should just use a clx as its less than 25ft. I can tell you now an 18ft clx stretching over an extension is no fun whatsoever. It strains everything. When using an extreme i could do it one handed if i wanted too.
Anyways that's me done on the topic, as its about hot water not light poles.
You have your opinion i have mine mate :) :)
I can reach over a conservatory using an ali pole literally one handed
if you are having to stretch and cause strain you are using the wrong
length pole(incorrect use of tool)
im probably being a little unfair..i came from a job that involved real
physical strain and when started wfp in 2007 using a 25ft universal
pole everyday it was a walk in the park to what i was doing.
Now back to slagging off hot water ;D
-
Thats what I like about my system. I'm twin pumped with hot or cold on diesel. Its there hot when i want it and
if I don't I leave it off. No faffing with draining systems, replacing bottles, storage, flues ,have I enough gas and warning stickers, is insurance covered etc.
I like to pull up, decide hot or cold and go.
End of day fill up job done. 5 years diesel, no problems. IMO ;)
Steve
-
Daz you amaze me, some time back it was hot water is great. It was so fantastic you even had lists of what you needed to convert to a hot system and overnight you were the hot guru. Now because you have messed up a hose its not good anymore. What one needs to understand is your are working with hot water that expands and will put pressure on all you fitting and hose.This fact you need to understand and not operate it at full heat. This you have stated so often on your threads in the past.
Don`t knock it as it does work and the fact is washing dishes in hot and cold water as proof.It is an extreme example, but it remains proof.Removing the greasy residual left by car exhaust pollution so many are having problems on this forum.
The only fault of hot pure water is that so many do not mention the pressure on the system and the changing one needs to make to compensate for this pressure.
Its a new and ground breaking technology and needs to be understood before embracing it blindly.Water over 65 degree can crack glass and if you get away with it is just pure luck.
The fact of the matter is a polyurethane hose and fitting like Thermobore will not last at temperatures of over 65 degrees without loosing its strength. Theromobore is heaver due to its hose within a hose thickness and therefore will be heaver.
Its a shame so many rush into exciting new technology then diss it when it fails for them. Hot pure is a very exciting thing for window cleaning and will become like the trad /WFP arguments that prevails on this forum.
Daz you are a very likable chap but take responsibility for what you write on this forum because so many will follow blindly.
-
Like I've said before Daz, I only use mine in really cold weather so hoses stay soft and they don't freeze up. Pack it away once the cold snap as gone. I think cold does just a good job !!!! 👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👍
-
Daz you amaze me, some time back it was hot water is great. It was so fantastic you even had lists of what you needed to convert to a hot system and overnight you were the hot guru. Now because you have messed up a hose its not good anymore. What one needs to understand is your are working with hot water that expands and will put pressure on all you fitting and hose.This fact you need to understand and not operate it at full heat. This you have stated so often on your threads in the past.
Don`t knock it as it does work and the fact is washing dishes in hot and cold water as proof.It is an extreme example, but it remains proof.Removing the greasy residual left by car exhaust pollution so many are having problems on this forum.
The only fault of hot pure water is that so many do not mention the pressure on the system and the changing one needs to make to compensate for this pressure.
Its a new and ground breaking technology and needs to be understood before embracing it blindly.Water over 65 degree can crack glass and if you get away with it is just pure luck.
The fact of the matter is a polyurethane hose and fitting like Thermobore will not last at temperatures of over 65 degrees without loosing its strength. Theromobore is heaver due to its hose within a hose thickness and therefore will be heaver.
Its a shame so many rush into exciting new technology then diss it when it fails for them. Hot pure is a very exciting thing for window cleaning and will become like the trad /WFP arguments that prevails on this forum.
Daz you are a very likable chap but take responsibility for what you write on this forum because so many will follow blindly.
Hot water a exciting new technology...where are you the outer reaches
of norfolk ;D
-
No. I am not but when nothing is going on accept a pole tap or two it is exciting to clean with hot water. It is a freshest idea of the last five years. When some forward thinking company decides to develop a good hot system from tank to pole, we have not seen the best yet. Hot water wfp is still in its infancy as there is a few more problems to iron out and yes I think it is exciting. I guess watching paint dry turns you on.
-
It's very exciting when the glass cracks!
-
I have used hot for 5 years and never a crack. Hot is for the thinking, responsible window cleaner only, that understand what he is dealing with.
-
Daz you amaze me, some time back it was hot water is great. It was so fantastic you even had lists of what you needed to convert to a hot system and overnight you were the hot guru. Now because you have messed up a hose its not good anymore. What one needs to understand is your are working with hot water that expands and will put pressure on all you fitting and hose.This fact you need to understand and not operate it at full heat. This you have stated so often on your threads in the past.
Don`t knock it as it does work and the fact is washing dishes in hot and cold water as proof.It is an extreme example, but it remains proof.Removing the greasy residual left by car exhaust pollution so many are having problems on this forum.
The only fault of hot pure water is that so many do not mention the pressure on the system and the changing one needs to make to compensate for this pressure.
Its a new and ground breaking technology and needs to be understood before embracing it blindly.Water over 65 degree can crack glass and if you get away with it is just pure luck.
The fact of the matter is a polyurethane hose and fitting like Thermobore will not last at temperatures of over 65 degrees without loosing its strength. Theromobore is heaver due to its hose within a hose thickness and therefore will be heaver.
Its a shame so many rush into exciting new technology then diss it when it fails for them. Hot pure is a very exciting thing for window cleaning and will become like the trad /WFP arguments that prevails on this forum.
Daz you are a very likable chap but take responsibility for what you write on this forum because so many will follow blindly.
Hot water a exciting new technology...where are you the outer reaches
of norfolk ;D
No, 1872 bc
-
I have used hot for 5 years and never a crack. Hot is for the thinking, responsible window cleaner only, that understand what he is dealing with.
Very patronizing I must say! ;D
I had one go and had I thought some more and been more responsible it still would have cracked.
-
Somebody should tell these guys that hot water only cleans dishes better if it has detergent
in it.
Hot on it own would be less effective than cold with detergent.
Car pollution is oil based so water alone wont remove it hot or not.
-
I use a 1kw aquarium heater (£50) and life vest (£2), this heats to around 28 degrees so not hot just warm, I've done this for a few years and it works very well, stops everything from freezing up and keeps the hoses supple throughout the day!