Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Smudger on February 27, 2014, 07:32:08 pm
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Okay dokey,
Below are some pictures of an area I've got to quote for, there is a large sandstone (well that's my unprofessional view)patio (100 m2) all the slabs are solid, but large areas have nothing but dirt between them, some have mortar but this is very sandy and can be rubbed away with a pen, other parts have solid mortar and I see no problem with the jet washing process.
So my query is, when finished, should i offer a re-sanding service (at additional cost) and should it be KDS or something like a jointing mix ?
(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b458/huxleyhobbs/image_zps7b159216.jpg) (http://s1045.photobucket.com/user/huxleyhobbs/media/image_zps7b159216.jpg.html)
(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b458/huxleyhobbs/image_zps34409fd1.jpg) (http://s1045.photobucket.com/user/huxleyhobbs/media/image_zps34409fd1.jpg.html)
(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b458/huxleyhobbs/image_zps1400fa23.jpg) (http://s1045.photobucket.com/user/huxleyhobbs/media/image_zps1400fa23.jpg.html)
Thanks in advance
Darran
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Depending how well this was laid. You may find that sand will find gaps under the slabs and not look great afterwards, or mortar saw joints/chisel and then use weather point 365 or equivalent for more pro finish. Ed
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Riven Concrete ????...have you got a wider picture.
Cheap fix kiln dried. More expensive geo fix..to do it properly grind it all out and wet point it. It would be an arse to wet point as the Gaps are tight.
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Must f being typing at the same time ;D ;D
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Chris, good job on the hard surface thread . Get it on your site . Ed
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Once cleaned I would consider rejointing using something like stayputt - I have used it frequently on Indian sandstone and the like, however it flows like kiln dried sand so it may be a little expensive.
Regards
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Chris, good job on the hard surface thread . Get it on your site . Ed
which one?
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Chris "how do i remove this" thread. Ed
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Firstly I would not pressure wash it and secondly I wouldn't do it at all unless they let me repoint it.
I would run an Exakt saw down all the joints and vac them out then I would clean it with a rotary and a wet vac with SIC brush, high alkaline and honing powder. Then seal it very quickly with a water based penetrating sealer and then fill it with Sika jointing sand or Geo Fix. Then fly over it with a black pad and pH neutral cleaner and then seal it again
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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That's a mortar job I would have thought. I wouldn't personally go down the dry sand route.
Are you planning on cleaning with pressure washing alone or hypo?
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Mortar all the way, If you aren't that good at pointing get a mortor gun and a proper mix will last forever.
In my opionion geofix and other stuff like that is rubbish. Looks amazing when first done but will not last.
Simon
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Does not matter what goes in it ...it won't last as the joints are not wide enough. The joints will be weak.
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Wow thanks for all the replies,
Kev, sorry very new to this game so I didn't understand most of your post :-[
Yes the plan was to hypo then wash
Sorry no wider piccy, I thought close up and personal would be more beneficial
I'm not what budget crusty is looking for, they build luxury yachts but that's not to say money is no object
Darran
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Hypo and wash looks about right to me. It looks like heavy soiling and an fsc would probably struggle to cut through it.
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Does not matter what goes in it ...it won't last as the joints are not wide enough. The joints will be weak.
The joints are fine you just like being negative. I guess your just not as good as me at pointing. I can point and get mix as hard as nails.
In fact I am brilliant at pointing.
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That's not Sandstone, it is precast concrete rivened slabs.
Needs deep cleaning and a total clean-out & re-point of the joins and not using the Geo-Fix S**T as that will fail.
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I have done more of these jobs than you can shake a stick at and the Geo Fix is superb. I am not talking about the deal in the Blue Bucket I mean the Geo Fix Pro and Sika Jointing Sand is Setting sand that sets rock hard and it is designed for narrow joints It is not a loose kiln dried sand. We sell at least 50 buckets a month of Geo Fix and it is fantastic stuff.
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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I have done more of these jobs than you can shake a stick at and the Geo Fix is superb. I am not talking about the deal in the Blue Bucket I mean the Geo Fix Pro and Sika Jointing Sand is Setting sand that sets rock hard and it is designed for narrow joints It is not a loose kiln dried sand. We sell at least 50 buckets a month of Geo Fix and it is fantastic stuff.
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Kevin,
I have seen more of these Geo-fix failures then I care to mention, so without getting into a big debate, for me Geo-Fix is a S**T product any decent paving layer will also back this up sorry.
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That's not Sandstone, it is precast concrete rivened slabs.
Needs deep cleaning and a total clean-out & re-point of the joins and not using the Geo-Fix S**T as that will fail.
Roger
You put this on while I was posting. Have you tried the Geo Fix in the Red Tubs?
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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Hi roger, how can you tell ?
Darran
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Does not matter what goes in it ...it won't last as the joints are not wide enough. The joints will be weak.
The joints are fine you just like being negative. I guess your just not as good as me at pointing. I can point and get mix as hard as nails.
In fact I am brilliant at pointing.
Pointing should always be softer than the material being "pointed" to allow movement. The joints need to be compressed to be strong enough, The gaps on this project is nowhere near wide enough to allow the joint to have a compressed mixture that has enough material in it to be strong and allow movement. It will fail....Most geo fix jobs fail due to lack of compression ,people just brush it in. Similar to brushing in dry mix.
We also use this http://www.nccstreetscape.co.uk/PavementJointing.html
These are concrete flags not sandstone.
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That's not Sandstone, it is precast concrete rivened slabs.
Needs deep cleaning and a total clean-out & re-point of the joins and not using the Geo-Fix S**T as that will fail.
Roger
You put this on while I was posting. Have you tried the Geo Fix in the Red Tubs?
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
No Kevin, I haven't as we don't do re-pointing, but have seen enough failures of this product, we are also seeing Rompox failures which was supposed to be the "the be all & end all" of these brush in type products/compounds, 365 is a good product to date, but like all these compounds time will tell.
The only way to point IMO is good old concrete mix done by a professional paver.
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Hi roger, how can you tell ?
Darran
Experience Darren, that's all mate.
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Darren, do you not clean first then put hypo down to dwell ?
Roger, i mentioned 365 can i get a gold star for been teachers pet ! Ed ;D
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Roger
My preference is sand and cement mixed to apple crumble mixture with polymer, water and gardener mix then sweep it in and draw a hose down the joint to smooth it and pull the liquid to the surface I have never had a call back and it sets like steel. However it is difficult if you have never done it. Recently been using the Geo Fix Pro and found it excellent as is the Sika Setting Sand but it is not as durable
Kev
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Darren, do you not clean first then put hypo down to dwell ?
Roger, i mentioned 365 can i get a gold star for been teachers pet ! Ed ;D
Ed,
I don't do favouritism ;) just try to give honest answers.
Darren,
The other thing I meant to ask, are all the pavers/slabs sound? no rocking or movement? as if the answer is yes then no matter what you use will fail as the paver/slabs need to be sound in place so no movement so not to make the joins a weak point.
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Any single pack slurry mortars / polymeric jointing compounds are crap, I have even seen bleach break Rompox back down to crumbs, you need a 2 pack epoxy mortor like GTFK 800 / 850 or Resiply Residual.
I cant comment on cement mixes as I have never used them but if the Roger and Simon recommend them then it will be very good too.
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Cheer Roger, as always very much appreciate your input.
Aqua, no I wet the area first, then hypo then clean, thus far I've not done huge areas a And tend to only use it on concrete based areas. Other than OT8 for oil everything has come up superbly well using the above or straightforward water only
But remember I'm a noob at this, and have lots to learn, what I see Roger and the others clean, how they know what stone is what type, what chemical to apply amazes me, I just hope that I can take it all in and become as good as the big 4 who post great stuff on here
Darran
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Roger
My preference is sand and cement mixed to apple crumble mixture with polymer, water and gardener mix then sweep it in and draw a hose down the joint to smooth it and pull the liquid to the surface I have never had a call back and it sets like steel. However it is difficult if you have never done it. Recently been using the Geo Fix Pro and found it excellent as is the Sika Setting Sand but it is not as durable
Kev
I might have not used Geo-S**T but do know a member on here that used it endlessly and to his cost? it failed, It may have worked for you, and as I said don't want to get into a big "Hall type" debate but I do know enough pavers and stone suppliers that would just laugh at the use of this product, plus as I said I have seen enough DIY and so called professionals work where this product has failed so I can't recommend it.
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Yes all the slabs/pavers are rock solid, even the edges
I would like to point the area because I think it's going to look a little odd with a mix of filled joints and areas of empty joints
Darran
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Yes all the slabs/pavers are rock solid, even the edges
I would like to point the area because I think it's going to look a little odd with a mix of filled joints and areas of empty joints
Darran
Cut out the joints and slurry point it.
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I tell them I'm a cleaner and just clean and give them a phone number for someone who is prepared to kneel down all day scratching about. I have thousands invested in gear and want to be out working it. You can shove your pointing, geo dogs poo or whatever where its dark cos I don't do it - I can understand if you run a petrol washer then you probably make more if the washers not running ;D
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Yes all the slabs/pavers are rock solid, even the edges
I would like to point the area because I think it's going to look a little odd with a mix of filled joints and areas of empty joints
Darran
Then in cases like these it's a total repoint Darren, no matter what you use. Homeowners do sometimes want the cheapest option, just a patch or fill-in here and there, then get p***ed off when there's a colour difference with the new pointing. Just be careful.
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This is more exiting than the great british bake off...we could have the great british point off.
If have a picture on my website of that stone cleaned and pointed header picture 6, path in middle and circle. Did a few years ago and recleaned a couple of times still like rock.
Pointing one next week if you were closer you good come and get a lesson.
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This is more exiting than the great british bake off...we could have the great british point off.
If have a picture on my website of that stone cleaned and pointed header picture 6, path in middle and circle. Did a few years ago and recleaned a couple of times still like rock.
Pointing one next week if you were closer you good come and get a lesson.
And get what's is name Paul Hollywood, could come and massage the pointing mix like he's does with the bread dough and get the ladies all excited ;D ;D ;D
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BDCS, You leave us petrol heads alone..... !!! ;D
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Nice site Simon.
Did you re point all of that by hand with mortar or something like geo fix ?
Either way how long did it take?
I also noticed in the pics you lance your drives, is that standard or do you use FSC in the main.
Cheers Rodger, it's about being prepared if the customer asks, I'm happy to give options from us just cleaning through to re pointing, as long as I have a reasonable grasp of what's involved and the processes along with the pitfalls
Darran
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Roger
My preference is sand and cement mixed to apple crumble mixture with polymer, water and gardener mix then sweep it in and draw a hose down the joint to smooth it and pull the liquid to the surface I have never had a call back and it sets like steel. However it is difficult if you have never done it. Recently been using the Geo Fix Pro and found it excellent as is the Sika Setting Sand but it is not as durable
Kev
I might have not used Geo-S**T but do know a member on here that used it endlessly and to his cost? it failed, It may have worked for you, and as I said don't want to get into a big "Hall type" debate but I do know enough pavers and stone suppliers that would just laugh at the use of this product, plus as I said I have seen enough DIY and so called professionals work where this product has failed so I can't recommend it.
Roger
You should know me well enough by now! Not getting into anything! We are discussing it like adults and at the end of the day Geo Fix Pro All Weather is only a glorified expensive version of what I was shown how to make by a guy who had been laying paths and patios for 40 years. Good point by the way about the firmness and fixing of the slabs to the substrate ;D
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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BDCS, You leave us petrol heads alone..... !!! ;D
I'm a petrol head just not when its business and its cheaper to run diesel
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BDCS, You leave us petrol heads alone..... !!! ;D
I'm a petrol head just not when its business and its cheaper to run diesel
You seem to be obsessed with the diesel v petrol. The way I look at it is I mainly do domestic so might be a bit different. I charge a customer say £600 for a clean using petrol and I could do the same clean for £35 in diesel does the £25 matter? If I was bothered about it iwould charge them £625. Just my opionion on it.
Simon x
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BDCS, You leave us petrol heads alone..... !!! ;D
I'm a petrol head just not when its business and its cheaper to run diesel
You seem to be obsessed with the diesel v petrol. The way I look at it is I mainly do domestic so might be a bit different. I charge a customer say £600 for a clean using petrol and I could do the same clean for £35 in diesel does the £25 matter? If I was bothered about it iwould charge them £625. Just my opionion on it.
Simon x
+1 same applies on commercials, if petrol machine is capable of job I really don't see it as a massive saving
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Roger
My preference is sand and cement mixed to apple crumble mixture with polymer, water and gardener mix then sweep it in and draw a hose down the joint to smooth it and pull the liquid to the surface I have never had a call back and it sets like steel. However it is difficult if you have never done it. Recently been using the Geo Fix Pro and found it excellent as is the Sika Setting Sand but it is not as durable
Kev
I might have not used Geo-S**T but do know a member on here that used it endlessly and to his cost? it failed, It may have worked for you, and as I said don't want to get into a big "Hall type" debate but I do know enough pavers and stone suppliers that would just laugh at the use of this product, plus as I said I have seen enough DIY and so called professionals work where this product has failed so I can't recommend it.
Roger
You should know me well enough by now! Not getting into anything! We are discussing it like adults and at the end of the day Geo Fix Pro All Weather is only a glorified expensive version of what I was shown how to make by a guy who had been laying paths and patios for 40 years. Good point by the way about the firmness and fixing of the slabs to the substrate ;D
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
I know mate, just didn't want to see the thread high-jacked ::)roll
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I don't care what you run - if you work 5 days a week and spend £25 a day extra on fuel and only run the washer for 6 months then you have wasted £3125 - this is more than a good diesel washer will cost. There is no obsession just good business sense surely.
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I don't care what you run - if you work 5 days a week and spend £25 a day extra on fuel and only run the washer for 6 months then you have wasted £3125 - this is more than a good diesel washer will cost. There is no obsession just good business sense surely.
I agree with your figures...but i don't use an extra £25 a day maybe a tenner at the most. I would gladly pay the extra tenner a day for the benefit of running petrol. ;D Another added bonus is because my machine is lighter mobile and not on a trailer ...my van is more economical. So maybe my "average" fuel spend is only slightly more expensive than the all "diesel " user. Plus my van runs on vimto ;D
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Nice site Simon.
Did you re point all of that by hand with mortar or something like geo fix ?
Either way how long did it take?
I also noticed in the pics you lance your drives, is that standard or do you use FSC in the main.
Cheers Rodger, it's about being prepared if the customer asks, I'm happy to give options from us just cleaning through to re pointing, as long as I have a reasonable grasp of what's involved and the processes along with the pitfalls
Darran
Hi mate website is new pleased with it and getting loads of calls from it, just getting a few things updated and a few things changed if the web guy I use feels like it!
The pointing I mixed myself and did over a day, but also reset loose paving, fixed coping stones and rebuilt part of a brick wall.
We do use flat surface cleaners got 4 now just the pics were taken when we were washing down I do need to add some fsc pics now you mention it.
If you want to know the best way to point patios give me a ring, my way is the best and its a secret!
Simon
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I don't care what you run - if you work 5 days a week and spend £25 a day extra on fuel and only run the washer for 6 months then you have wasted £3125 - this is more than a good diesel washer will cost. There is no obsession just good business sense surely.
back to high jacking sorry but figures are a nonsense ;D never use extra £25 a day ::)roll at most £10
Seen lots of geofix jobs best DIY, no one I know uses it in ground work etc, but on saying that I don't know anyone who cleans block paving with scrubber and wet vac , sorry correction.. Apart from one person ;D, we use wet mix charge daily rate have mixer, small breaker etc works well. As stated look out for spot bedding, dabs by cowboys
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Sorry - you hobbyists stick to petrol and I'll use diesel. I have a nearly new Kohler v twin for sale cheap if petrols so cheap - I also have the same engine on a lpg conversion if you ever need a very economical gas guzzler
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I don't care what you run - if you work 5 days a week and spend £25 a day extra on fuel and only run the washer for 6 months then you have wasted £3125 - this is more than a good diesel washer will cost. There is no obsession just good business sense surely.
back to high jacking sorry but figures are a nonsense ;D never use extra £25 a day ::)roll at most £10
Seen lots of geofix jobs best DIY, no one I know uses it in ground work
etc, but on saying that I don't know anyone who cleans block paving with scrubber and wet vac , sorry correction.. Apart from one person ;D, we use wet mix charge daily rate have mixer, small breaker etc works well. As stated look out for spot bedding, dabs by cowboys
Oh well I must be unique then. But I have tried both methods and know which works best for me ;D
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
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Sorry - you hobbyists
;D
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A big thank you to all of you, even if some did get a little distracted 😄
After much consideration, and reviewing my re-pointing skills (zero 😳😜) and general consensus that geofix MAY not work too well I'm chickening out and simply quoting for cleaning with an advisory regarding the pointing and a recommendation that a skilled builder (FIL) quotes for re-pointing after the clean.
Thanks for the offer simon, when I get a smaller, less important re pointing job I'll give you a buzz for some, Er.... Pointers 😲😲😎
Darran
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Sorry - you hobbyists stick to petrol and I'll use diesel
curious what do you call guys that use karcher electric washers ???
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Sorry - you hobbyists stick to petrol and I'll use diesel
curious what do you call guys that use karcher electric washers ???
Professional ...if that what the surface to be cleaned requires.
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I know what you mean - these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KARCHER-KIDS-TOY-PRESSURE-WASHER-GARDEN-TOY-/121237553669?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Outdoor_Toys_Garden_Games_Activities_LE&hash=item1c3a524205
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I know what you mean - these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KARCHER-KIDS-TOY-PRESSURE-WASHER-GARDEN-TOY-/121237553669?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Outdoor_Toys_Garden_Games_Activities_LE&hash=item1c3a524205
I want one ;D
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Ooooh. Time to upgrade 😄😄😄😄😄
Darran
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Nice site Simon.
Did you re point all of that by hand with mortar or something like geo fix ?
Either way how long did it take?
I also noticed in the pics you lance your drives, is that standard or do you use FSC in the main.
Great site ! This is something I'm looking at doing myself. Can you recommend a web designer to use?
Cheers Rodger, it's about being prepared if the customer asks, I'm happy to give options from us just cleaning through to re pointing, as long as I have a reasonable grasp of what's involved and the processes along with the pitfalls
Darran
Hi mate website is new pleased with it and getting loads of calls from it, just getting a few things updated and a few things changed if the web guy I use feels like it!
The pointing I mixed myself and did over a day, but also reset loose paving, fixed coping stones and rebuilt part of a brick wall.
We do use flat surface cleaners got 4 now just the pics were taken when we were washing down I do need to add some fsc pics now you mention it.
If you want to know the best way to point patios give me a ring, my way is the best and its a secret!
Simon
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Thats not very clear!
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Was trying to ask where you got your site built but didn't go well as you can see. I want a site but don't know where to go so really want someone who is recommended .
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David if you email me you details and what your after I will forward it to Adam my web designer, he works for a big web company but does his own work on the side.
Simon
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just thought I'd call to Pick your brains is what Si says every time he calls me! ;D
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Was trying to ask where you got your site built but didn't go well as you can see. I want a site but don't know where to go so really want someone who is recommended .
I have an indian web designer he will build you a wordpress site for £150 or try this
http://www.peopleperhour.com/hourlie/make-5-page-website-in-wordpress-using-themes/72379?ref=search&pos=22&keyword=wordpress+website&umid=50b78ead8301b331cc035aa2a4560fa873a56107e3da7087a4f58432b744ea73
Some of his work
www.cleaning-service.uk.com
www.gutter-cleaning.co
www.paint-removal.co.uk
www.render-cleaning.com
www.pressure-washing.uk.com
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Was trying to ask where you got your site built but didn't go well as you can see. I want a site but don't know where to go so really want someone who is recommended .
I have an indian web designer he will build you a wordpress site for £150 or try this
http://www.peopleperhour.com/hourlie/make-5-page-website-in-wordpress-using-themes/72379?ref=search&pos=22&keyword=wordpress+website&umid=50b78ead8301b331cc035aa2a4560fa873a56107e3da7087a4f58432b744ea73
Some of his work
www.cleaning-service.uk.com
www.gutter-cleaning.co
www.paint-removal.co.uk
www.render-cleaning.com
www.pressure-washing.uk.com
the reason this country Is in such a state is due to people like u ;D ;D
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;D
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I'm a cowboy and I object to the term Indian as a racist comment and I also have a phobia of arrows
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Was trying to ask where you got your site built but didn't go well as you can see. I want a site but don't know where to go so really want someone who is recommended .
I have an indian web designer he will build you a wordpress site for £150 or try this
http://www.peopleperhour.com/hourlie/make-5-page-website-in-wordpress-using-themes/72379?ref=search&pos=22&keyword=wordpress+website&umid=50b78ead8301b331cc035aa2a4560fa873a56107e3da7087a4f58432b744ea73
Some of his work
www.cleaning-service.uk.com
www.gutter-cleaning.co
www.paint-removal.co.uk
www.render-cleaning.com
www.pressure-washing.uk.com
You only get what you pay for!
5 sites offering the same services by the same person or one quality one?
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Was trying to ask where you got your site built but didn't go well as you can see. I want a site but don't know where to go so really want someone who is recommended .
I have an indian web designer he will build you a wordpress site for £150 or try this
http://www.peopleperhour.com/hourlie/make-5-page-website-in-wordpress-using-themes/72379?ref=search&pos=22&keyword=wordpress+website&umid=50b78ead8301b331cc035aa2a4560fa873a56107e3da7087a4f58432b744ea73
Some of his work
www.cleaning-service.uk.com
www.gutter-cleaning.co
www.paint-removal.co.uk
www.render-cleaning.com
www.pressure-washing.uk.com
You only get what you pay for!
5 sites offering the same services by the same person or one quality one?
You have plenty of pretty picture Simon...it looks good. ;D ;D
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I like your 5 as well Chris, you must be 5 times busier than me. ;)
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I like your 5 as well Chris, you must be 5 times busier than me. ;)
Thank you
...no we are struggling for work do you have any jobs for me?
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Wow just looked at your sites, you hire donkeys! Whats that all about?
How do you find the time to work managing websites and commenting on forums?.
;D
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;D
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I want a quality site from the word go! I would rather pay a reasonable amount of money in the beginning knowing that I'm covering every angle rather then spend a little and not be 100% happy with it. Simon does he handle the SEO or does it just rank high in content
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What you dont see is the back workings of the website which is as impressive as the front. Keywords and content.
Has he emailed you?
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What you dont see is the back workings of the website which is as impressive as the front. Keywords and content.
Has he emailed you?
You can "View source" and see the words behind the page and is easy to snide if you have a little knowledge
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Simon, Contact made ! Watch this website space ;D Ed
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Be Careful Ed
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What you dont see is the back workings of the website which is as impressive as the front. Keywords and content.
Has he emailed you?
No email as yet !
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What you dont see is the back workings of the website which is as impressive as the front. Keywords and content.
Has he emailed you?
Contrary to what you paid...it's a very basic Wordpress site as are mine.
The domain name was registered 02/03/09...this is very good for your site.
The website looks good.... to a human.
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Never had the spider ring and book work - mainly humans but obviously Chris does a roaring trade cleaning patios at virtual spiders houses. How do they pay Chris Cache ;D
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Never had the spider ring and book work - mainly humans but obviously Chris does a roaring trade cleaning patios at virtual spiders houses. How do they pay Chris Cache ;D
So you get it Carl? Get he insects interested and the Humans will follow;D