Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on February 18, 2014, 06:43:21 pm

Title: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2014, 06:43:21 pm
another guy today(landscape gardener).has a vivaro and before that a renault trafic.both vans have had gearboxes go and injectors TWICE ON BOTH VANS!!

also a mechanic friend of mine says stay well clear of them as weak gearboxes,injectors go all the time.he said its bad design.

BUT this gardener said he,d have another one as they look professional and comfy to drive.

my kangoo is 14 YEARS OLD with 141,000 ON THE CLOCK and still going and ive hardly spent much money on it really in 4 years but i need a bigger van.

i average about 3000 miles a year so not much mileage.another friend of mine says he d put a recon gearbox in for £500 if gearbox goes if i get a vivaro.

ive never had a gearbox go on any van or car ive ever had and all my vehicles have been at least 10 years old!!

im looking at vivaros about 7 or 8 years old.ill have around 4 or 5 grand but im not sure if i want to shell out that much if im gonna have constant problems with reliability.

thoughts?alternatives? ::)roll


cheers guys


dazmond
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Dave Willis on February 18, 2014, 06:44:58 pm
Toyota Hiace of course.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Clever Forum Name on February 18, 2014, 06:48:28 pm
Would never drop 5k on a vivaro.

Wayyyyyyy to many horror stories.

5k will get you a dog anyway.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: deeege on February 18, 2014, 06:53:48 pm
You won't hear many stories of post 2006 vivaros having the gearbox or injector problems.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Dave Willis on February 18, 2014, 06:55:00 pm
This was my first van - lovely!


(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1392749671_gutterclean 262.JPG)
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: DaveG on February 18, 2014, 06:56:12 pm
Paid 2k for my  04 Trafic 2 years ago and it's been good as gold (apart from having to change MAF sensor last month.

Mind you the last owner ( a member from here) changed the gearbox at 70k.

It's done around 108k now and still pulls like a train fully loaded.


Daz,

On a side note, how much you be selling your Kangoo for? Looking for a small van later this year fro my son..

Cheers
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Simon Mess on February 18, 2014, 06:57:17 pm
Toyota Hiace of course.

+1!

As for vivaro's, i remember reading through owners reviews on a website, and one (bearing in mind most were going on about gearbox problems) said that there is a design flaw in that the designated filling point for gearbox oil was situated too low, with the result that the gearbox is always low on oil, even from the factory. He also went on to say that there was another ('unofficial') point in the gearbox, higher up, through which you can get more oil in. No idea if this is actually the case or not though!. He also went on to say that most gearbox problems with the vivaro were caused by a combination of the above, and bad drivers. Thrashing it, trying to rush the gears (especially when cold) that sort of thing.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Dave Willis on February 18, 2014, 06:58:38 pm
and its replacement.

The Citroen was possibly the better van - more power and double sliding doors - loads more cubby holes too.



(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1392749793_gutterclean 272.JPG)
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: mufcglen on February 18, 2014, 07:00:00 pm
as an ex grease monkey pal,ive always said theres two main vans for me transits the main one always has been the all round best van although the last few years they've had a few niggles then theres the sprinter which is a pretty solid van but when they go wrong they cost you in bits.
at the end of the day pal every single van has niggles from injectors to dmf's to gearboxes failing out!
me personally i would go transit all day long if i had the choice,easy to work on,easy to fix and dont cost a lot in parts too and youve got your pick of them as theyre the most popular wagon on the road.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 18, 2014, 07:03:03 pm
as an ex grease monkey pal,ive always said theres two main vans for me transits the main one always has been the all round best van although the last few years they've had a few niggles then theres the sprinter which is a pretty solid van but when they go wrong they cost you in bits.
at the end of the day pal every single van has niggles from injectors to dmf's to gearboxes failing out!
me personally i would go transit all day long if i had the choice,easy to work on,easy to fix and dont cost a lot in parts too and youve got your pick of them as theyre the most popular wagon on the road.

Not questioning you (but I am-if you know what I mean) Are transits the most popular van on the road?
I see more Vivaro/Trafic/Primastars round my way. Perhaps single brand there's more transits?
My BIL fancies a transit but he's probably gonna settle on another vivaro.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Simon Mess on February 18, 2014, 07:08:13 pm
Looking on autotrader is a good indication of van numbers. There are well over twice as many transits than vivaros, trafics, and primastars put together!
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2014, 07:12:44 pm
i dont like transits!they look basic!but they are cheaper than vivaros.

you spend your money and take your chance i suppose.

i need a van that will take a 500L tank,heater and gas bottle etc and not be overweight first thing in the morning with room for poles,trad stuff and not feel too cramped.

im a sole trader but a 500L tank would be ideal for me esp on big domestic/commercial days.

if i want to squeeze another hour or so in a day in the summer months i simply run out of water with a 350L tank. ::)roll
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Clever Forum Name on February 18, 2014, 07:15:37 pm
day I would 110% get a new shape Citroen
Dispatch/ pug expert.

1188kg payload and a sleek mid sized
Van.

Transits are more expensive than vivaros btw.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: mufcglen on February 18, 2014, 07:17:56 pm
as an ex grease monkey pal,ive always said theres two main vans for me transits the main one always has been the all round best van although the last few years they've had a few niggles then theres the sprinter which is a pretty solid van but when they go wrong they cost you in bits.
at the end of the day pal every single van has niggles from injectors to dmf's to gearboxes failing out!
me personally i would go transit all day long if i had the choice,easy to work on,easy to fix and dont cost a lot in parts too and youve got your pick of them as theyre the most popular wagon on the road.

Not questioning you (but I am-if you know what I mean) Are transits the most popular van on the road?
I see more Vivaro/Trafic/Primastars round my way. Perhaps single brand there's more transits?
My BIL fancies a transit but he's probably gonna settle on another vivaro.

i agree fella theres many more of the vans you mentioned with the pugs/citroens thrown in etc but the way i see it is they all have theyre own for's and against's and these days theres not much between them all anymore, maybe thats why theres more brands than mainly transits nowadays.
transits all day for me, vauxhall and the rest are always trying to be the transit if you know what i mean.
its a plus for me as i know them in and out too but as i said before the parts are cheap as chips if you know where to go, not sure how much you got dazmond but you can get some right nice end of the line vans fully loaded with all the extras from the factory at good prices.
i remember my old peugeot dealer got a load of the last peugeot 406's fully loaded with every extra you can get from the factory for peanuts as they was one of the last made!
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 18, 2014, 07:23:38 pm
I'm on my 2nd tragic Daz.
1st one didn't miss a beat until 90k.
Ag after that tbh.

Injectors/gearbox going on your mates-perhaps it's more to do with his driving?
They may be weak but if you drive sensibly then they should last.
Thought I read that vans 07 & later had a lot of issues ironed out.

I think you'd do well to save a few extra pennies and go for a 50k 07>
£6,500ish...
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Perfect Windows on February 18, 2014, 07:27:01 pm
If you're ever in the passenger seat of a Transit, remember that our third franchisee fitted the seatbelt holding you in (only applies to Transits made in the past 23 years, to be fair).

And the dashboard was put in by our second franchisee.

Any problems with either of those bits, give me a call.

Vin
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Neil Jones on February 18, 2014, 07:27:55 pm
I've had two vivaros and one traffic (I know they are the same van). Found the traffic horrible for bits falling off, had that new to three years old, had a vivaro new after that for 4-5 year, had a clutch go around 50,000. Currently have an 08 vivaro, not a problem yet. I can't really fault them, I pull close to maximum weight as well so they get a lot of hammer. My 08 vivaro is coming up to 70,000.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: capn sparkle on February 18, 2014, 07:30:06 pm
I'd be very interested in what you get Dazmond - I'm looking for exactly the same and same sort of money
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: mufcglen on February 18, 2014, 07:34:15 pm
to be fair ive heard later vivaro's and the other rebadged lot have ironed a lot of the problems out.
if i was you pal,listen to your mechanic if he's the one who's gonna fix it, i hate it when my family ask me what car they should buy them go and buy a piece of crap and then come crying to me when they want it fixing and im the mug who's got to fix these back to front cars :'(
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: DaveG on February 18, 2014, 07:36:24 pm
Daz, how much for the Kangoo?
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: robbo333 on February 18, 2014, 07:37:34 pm
I like the apparent reliability of Toyota Hiaces. That will be my next van when I've outgrown my Connect.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2014, 08:05:03 pm
dave ive already got a buyer for the kangoo when i come to sell it mate.sorry!

as for buying a brand new van that only gets used for around 3000 miles a year.not a chance!! ;D

i might just buy a transit connect LWB 230 which i was originally gonna buy.they are far more reliable vans overall IMO.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 18, 2014, 08:06:55 pm
dave ive already got a buyer for the kangoo when i come to sell it mate.sorry!

as for buying a brand new van that only gets used for around 3000 miles a year.not a chance!! ;D

i might just buy a transit connect LWB 230 which i was originally gonna buy.they are far more reliable vans overall IMO.

Why not the expert/dispatch/scudo daz?
The expert I had was lovely!
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2014, 08:14:07 pm
yeh darren might have a look at those too!decisions!decisions! ;D

i need a van with a min payload of 900kg methinks for a 500L tank.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Don Kee on February 18, 2014, 08:15:56 pm
Ive heard horror stories about most vans to be honest daz....


Mechanic mate said he heard nothing but trouble with vivarros but then i know people who've barely had anything go wrong.
Transit stories mostly involve rust and heard somevabout the DMF but if you take precautions to stop the rust (eg waxy oil underneath) and dont drive like a dong  you should be fine...
Vw's are meant to be mint, but cost a fair whack and ive heard a few that have had to spend out
Etc etc....


If your mates a mechanic, get him to come along with you for a drink and check the vans out that you're interested with....
You'll always take a risk with second hand vans, but there are gems about just look for the right things. Most of the time you'll know within 5 mins whether its been through the mill...
Treat the van right, and it'll treat you right
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 18, 2014, 08:33:38 pm
yeh darren might have a look at those too!decisions!decisions! ;D

i need a van with a min payload of 900kg methinks for a 500L tank.

Getting on for 1200kg payload some of em Daz.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Twc services on February 18, 2014, 08:50:09 pm
T5 transporter  :) 180bhp it flys with 500kg in the back !!!
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Frankybadboy on February 18, 2014, 08:59:16 pm
a mechanic will only tell you the horror stories otherwise he be out of a job ;D ;D ;D ;D

had my vivaio 4 1/2 years on a 56 plate75k and nothing gone wrong with it until I went though a small paddle  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Don Kee on February 18, 2014, 09:01:56 pm
a mechanic will only tell you the horror stories otherwise he be out of a job ;D ;D ;D ;D

had my vivaio 4 1/2 years on a 56 plate75k and nothing gone wrong with it until I went though a small paddle  ;D ;D ;D

Didnt you think youd made a hover van like on top gear? ;D
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 18, 2014, 09:04:09 pm
T5 transporter  :) 180bhp it flys with 500kg in the back !!!

180BHP-it'd fly with 5,000kg in the back!
What a van.

Have you got the 4Motion one?
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: GoodFella2006 on February 18, 2014, 09:05:49 pm
if i want to squeeze another hour or so in a day in the summer months i simply run out of water with a 350L tank. ::)roll

You can carry a twin DI setup in your van to top up from customers outside tap.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: robertphil on February 18, 2014, 09:53:54 pm
tuffest vans are mercs or any van thats actually made in japan with a jap engine.

 its very rare to see a French  van go past 200k but  mercs and proper japs make that  easily.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Jonny 87 on February 18, 2014, 10:03:57 pm
Toyota Hiace of course.

+1

We've nearly got the same van Dave!

(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s650/OnlyUseMeWFP/01fbc1473a63289cb87c4b2596d78a37_zps86395b71.jpg)
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Marc Stock on February 18, 2014, 10:08:33 pm
My ex father in law had a vivaro. He bought it with just 2000 miles on the clock. Had injector problems, dpf issues, scyncro go, an electrical fault with the ecu that kept making the van stall. All issue were fixed under warranty,... wouldnt touch one with a barge pole though.

Im happy with my connect. Reliable, smart, and inexpensive to run. Id buy another no worries.


Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Klean07 on February 18, 2014, 10:38:53 pm
I'd be very interested in what you get Dazmond - I'm looking for exactly the same and same sort of money
Plus 1
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Frankybadboy on February 19, 2014, 07:47:51 am
to be honest daz if you only got 4k to spend for a vivario type van then you aint going to get much of a van


yes you will get something but it all be high mileage and batter to bits.your be asking for trouble


Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Jonny 87 on February 19, 2014, 08:06:41 am
to be honest daz if you only got 4k to spend for a vivario type van then you aint going to get much of a van


yes you will get something but it all be high mileage and batter to bits.your be asking for trouble




+1

If you've only £4000 then go for something that is more solid but older. Vw, toyota or ford.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 19, 2014, 08:41:11 am
how much did the toyota hiace cost you lads?i dont like the look of them but if their pretty bombproof then could be an option.

ive seen some mega old ones still going! ;D

also expert/dispatch/scudos.loads of builders and plumbers use them!

i want my new van to last 5 years.ill only be putting 15000 miles on it(max)in that time!
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Ben wood on February 19, 2014, 08:49:46 am
If that's all the miles your goon to do why not buy new as will last you til retirement lol. You kept telling us how much you earn so money should not be a problem or do you tell a few porkies
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: dazmond on February 19, 2014, 09:05:39 am
woods i do very well for myself mate but i would never buy a brand new van. ;D

i spend my money on lots of things.vans is NOT one of em! ;) :)


regards


dazmond
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: SB Cleaning on February 19, 2014, 09:15:18 am
I just bought a 59 plate primastar 2.0 115 bhp with 112k on clock for 4 k I cant fault the van.......but after reading some of these posts im beginning to wonder if it was the right choice :-\
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Ben wood on February 19, 2014, 12:05:47 pm
Fair play but what's the point in spending in great poles if a cheap van breaks you can't use them lol. I think your Ideal van would be a Citroen dispatch 57 reg onwards with  the 1200 kg payload. You can get them for around £4000 now. Then you could chuck a 650 tank in there and never have to worry about water usage mate. 
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on February 19, 2014, 02:07:40 pm
Newer vans have been built to be euro emission compliant making the injectors much more complex, also modern diesel has lower sulphur levels so less lubrication in the fuel. This causes the injectors in modern vans to fail far more often than in older vans.  A van that is over 10 years old will have a much more basic but reliable engine. However if you live close to the London LEZ an older van isn't an option. You also get more power from the modern engines with better fuel economy.

Simon.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Bill.upnw on February 19, 2014, 03:58:19 pm
Got a silver 06 vivaro, bought it for 3800 and its brilliant, 1.9cdti, 6 speed gearbox, remapped to. 130 bhp off whoever had it before me,

But yea brilliant to drive, you just dont no whos had it before you do you thats the problem buying a 2nd hand vehicle. Could have been ex fleet vehicle or anything, workers screw the crap out of work vehicles dont they
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: robert mitchell on February 19, 2014, 04:13:18 pm
the thing is , there are so many vivaro/traffic/primastars on the road that you are bound to hear more problems with them same as you hear about so many transits rusting .

The traffic/vivaro is very nice to drive , good on fuel and you barely notice there is a ton of water etc in the back.

They also have a very comfortable driving position .

The most reliable vehicle i have ever owned is a t4 vw transporter , no common rail ,very few electronics , and very very simple to fix .

They don't drive like a car though , they wallow round corners and are quite slow even the 2.5tdi , not very refined either , just an amazing reliable workhorse .

Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Perfect Windows on February 19, 2014, 04:15:46 pm
how much did the toyota hiace cost you lads?i dont like the look of them but if their pretty bombproof then could be an option.

ive seen some mega old ones still going! ;D

also expert/dispatch/scudos.loads of builders and plumbers use them!

i want my new van to last 5 years.ill only be putting 15000 miles on it(max)in that time!

My Hiace 280 was three years old with 100,004 miles on the clock when I bought it for £5,400 four years ago.

It's now done 119,000.  Five MOTs (one when I bought it) have resulted in three new bulbs previously and two anti-roll bars this time.  I have it serviced annually and nothing has ever gone wrong with it.

Vin
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Jonny 87 on February 19, 2014, 06:18:33 pm
how much did the toyota hiace cost you lads?i dont like the look of them but if their pretty bombproof then could be an option.

ive seen some mega old ones still going! ;D

also expert/dispatch/scudos.loads of builders and plumbers use them!

i want my new van to last 5 years.ill only be putting 15000 miles on it(max)in that time!

There not cheap daz. :(

As far as price goes, hiaces are one of the more expensive vans on the market. But they are solid. I actually think they look ok aswell, big 2.5 litre engine is a little thirsty, but fine really considering the reliability.

I'm not going to willy wave so I'll just say I bought mine a few months ago, 2007 model with 40,000 miles and it was a lot more than your 4k budget unfortunately.

Would definitely agree that older style engines are more reliable.

Apart from transits, even the modern ones are pretty reliable.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PoleKing on February 19, 2014, 08:01:20 pm
Newer vans have been built to be euro emission compliant making the injectors much more complex, also modern diesel has lower sulphur levels so less lubrication in the fuel. This causes the injectors in modern vans to fail far more often than in older vans.  A van that is over 10 years old will have a much more basic but reliable engine. However if you live close to the London LEZ an older van isn't an option. You also get more power from the modern engines with better fuel economy.

Simon.

Do you know your oats bud?
The lubrication in the fuel, would adding an er...additive be beneficial? Something like Wynns or something? Or is that all toot?
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: kempy on February 19, 2014, 08:22:09 pm
Transit looks basic mate , but I spend very little on mine the 57 plate onwards are very very good to drive .
Why pay loads , get a tranny
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Lee GLS on February 19, 2014, 10:04:16 pm
Kempy, you got your transit at a really good price, but in gereral I found transits to be more expensive than the vivaros. But saying that, all vans are expensive at the moment.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Twc services on February 19, 2014, 10:55:51 pm
T5 transporter  :) 180bhp it flys with 500kg in the back !!!

180BHP-it'd fly with 5,000kg in the back!
What a van.

Have you got the 4Motion one?

Not got a 4 motion  :( just a standard version. Still goes alright  ;D
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: windiewasher on February 20, 2014, 12:09:54 am
Get yourself a dispatch daz.i paid 7.5k plus vat 2010 lwb 2.0 minter.
Best thing ive bought so far for business.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: tench0771 on February 20, 2014, 07:07:26 am
my scudo has bin spot on 1.9d slow but very relible over 140k on the clock the only things ive done to it is starter moter,glow plugs,battory ,ill b up grading to a toyota haice or a transit next as i need more space
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on February 20, 2014, 07:09:15 am
woods i do very well for myself mate but i would never buy a brand new van. ;D

i spend my money on lots of things.vans is NOT one of em! ;) :)


regards


dazmond



With regards to mileage, im the same Daz, I only do minimal annual mileage, which was also a factor in me opting to buy a brand new Berlingo.

Also, I use my work van for personal (again, not that I do a lot of driving, but still) so I want a decent set of wheels, not a shed.

 ;)


Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on February 20, 2014, 08:58:47 am
Newer vans have been built to be euro emission compliant making the injectors much more complex, also modern diesel has lower sulphur levels so less lubrication in the fuel. This causes the injectors in modern vans to fail far more often than in older vans.  A van that is over 10 years old will have a much more basic but reliable engine. However if you live close to the London LEZ an older van isn't an option. You also get more power from the modern engines with better fuel economy.

Simon.

Do you know your oats bud?
The lubrication in the fuel, would adding an er...additive be beneficial? Something like Wynns or something? Or is that all toot?

Wouldn't say I know my oats but yes you can add lubrication to fuel to reduce wear to the injectors and fuel pressure pump.  If you do a search on it you'll find that 2 stroke oil was about as effective as anything else.  I've tried it before and there are no ill effects, the amount that you put in is negligible but enough to stop the injectors wearing from friction.

Simon.
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: G.W.C on February 21, 2014, 11:36:35 am
so have the problems with the gear boxes and injectors been sorted since 2006/07?i still fancy one something around 09/10 sort of year and the issues mentioned are the only thing putting me off
Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Marc Stock on February 21, 2014, 12:24:41 pm
My connect was £4995 full service history, 108,000 miles 1 year warranty one prev owner. 08 plate bought it in 2012. Transit connects are smart vans,popular but reliable.

Personallyi dont see the point in spending 10 or 20 grand on a van unless you lease it or have a large business with alot of vat to claim back.

Title: Re: getting put off vivaros
Post by: Lakes and Pennine on February 21, 2014, 01:53:20 pm
daz have been looking at a few vans as having loads of trouble with my movano, My last van was a transit, v reliable 7 years. It was an ex police and that ie the way i woulod go againe. there is a sitr..force vans. based in oxfordshire. all vans only had one owner...police so maintained to high standard. only trouble is vat involved