Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: paul ette on February 15, 2014, 09:54:06 pm
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Bought van having problems.
Drove home battery was dead in the morning , charged it , dead again so took to garage to check alternator and it's working fine, changed battery and it's still getting flat, there's no lights etc left on in van. The system is linked up to the van battery as it's only power source but there's nothing left on , can the pump and controller drain the battery when's it's not turned on?!? Baffled
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Battery has got a drain on it.
Did the garage not check the battery condition?
Very doubtful it's your pump etc. if the battery is good it should last till the next morning even if pump was running anyway.
New van battery needed I think.
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I changed battery for a spare I had that I used to run pump off in other van, it started this morning , tried it tonight and it's dead
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Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.
If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.
If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.
If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.
If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.
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Hmmmmm,
Check all your wiring to pump and make sure it's ok.
It really shouldn't be that though. Definitely sounds like a drain on your battery.
In the mean time to get you going so your not stuck, stick it on charge at night ready for the morning.
Atleast you can get your work done.
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Still got my other van just peed off as it's been in garage and spent money already and still not fixed, back to garage monday :(
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Hmmmmm,
Check all your wiring to pump and make sure it's ok.
It really shouldn't be that though. Definitely sounds like a drain on your battery.
In the mean time to get you going so your not stuck, stick it on charge at night ready for the morning.
Atleast you can get your work done.
The new Varistreams do use current even when the unit of switched off. It equals about 25% of a fully charged 85amph leisure battery after about a week standing. This won't be the problem. But he could remove the fuse in the system to see.
I remember years ago we had an issue with a faulty regulator inside the alternator. The alternator was charging fine but when the engine was switched off current was going 'backwards' through the field coils to earth flattening the battery.
The way to check that it to remove the battery terminal. Then find the large nut on the alternator (usually a 10mm) and undo it. Then take the cable eye lug off and tape it up. If the terminal doesn't spark when you put the terminal back on the battery post then this is the problem. If it still sparks then it isn't.
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Thanks for your advice spruce, but ain't got a clue bout that sort of stuff, I will mention what you said to garage tho see if it sparks of a light bulb, useless fekkers
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I just remembered that we also had a short on the cigarette lighter that created havoc.
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There is a parrot hands free kit on it but it's not lit wen ignition is off, hate people that lie about vans when they sell em, always have issues
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Is there an interior light that might be switched on in the back of the van?
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Na nothing
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Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.
If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.
If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.
If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.
If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.
Spruce, would it not spark anyway because of the central locking?
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Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.
If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.
If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.
If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.
If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.
Spruce, would it not spark anyway because of the central locking?
It shouldn't if the central locking is either on or off but this is a good place to start looking. There will be a minor spark as the electronics get a power supply, but it shouldn't be like a welding machine arc at the electrode.
The first place to start looking is something that isn't ignition related as the ignition switch 'deadens'/switches off most items, ie screen heaters, wipers, electric window motors, etc. So a central locking solenoid on the doors is a good place to start as that isn't linked to the ignition. They can sieze up and not switch off.
The radio is another item that may or may not be linked to the ignition and be suspect. The cigarette lighter is another if the lighter hasn't popped out.
The early Ford Transit Connect were notorious for a faulty charge cable from the alternator to the battery. The insulation around the wires seemed to burn leaving the cables exposed. They didn't come in contact with any body work but when they got wet they shorted current to earth.
Again the early Ford Transit Connect suffers from an ecu fault that turns the interior lights on including the cargo bay area.
Switching the lights off at the switch wasn't good enough as the relays were still activated. The short term solution was to remove the relays that are situated in the fuse holder behind the glovebox. The long term solution was to get the ecu software (or is it firmware) updated which Ford refused to do under warranty. They were charging £80 for the electronic upgrade a few years ago.
The trouble is that there aren't fault finding mechanics around much these days - they are parts fitters. The fault finders all work for the recovery firms like the AA, RAC, etc. and they were/are jolly good. When they recovered a broken down vehicle, 9 out of 10 fault observations they reported were correctly diagnosed.
We had a Multispace come into the workshop with water in the drivers footwell. The mechanic who got the job hadn't the faintest idea where to start looking for the problem. He was told to open the bonnet and look for a hole in the box section around the windscreen wiper motor area. His solution was to get onto the technical helpline at Slough and see if anyone else had experienced the problem and what the solution was.
Fortunately for him, it was a grommet that had been ommitted on the assembly line and they had a picture of where the grommet needed to be fitted and the part number of the grommet. That took half an hour. If he had opened the bonnet and looked where he was told he would have seen it in seconds. Then to add insult to injury, they phoned the customer to tell him to hold onto the courtesy car for another day, cancelled the job that the courtesy car was allocated to the following day and ordered the grommet. They had the exact size grommet in a box of assorted grommets in the spares dept, but he was too stupid to ask/look.
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Morning lads, sorry to here about the battery problem, can't help you I was going to be cheeky and ask spruce on his thoughts about this... ;D
In one of the vans every time we put the lights on the radio loses all power ie turns off completely turn lights off radio back on, have looked at wiring but typically it's all short and hard to see, would there be anything else to look at? ( ps was absolutely fine until we put in a 3 way ciggi lighter accessory ( now removed )
Darran
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Had a similar problem once - though not sure if it's exactly as you describe.
Leisure battery was duff. Split charge relay was not wired up correctly.
It meant that the leisure battery was drawing from the vehicle battery even when engine was off.
Well, that's what I was told by those whose opinion I needed to trust because I don't know how to set them up.
The fix was simple. Just wire the relay correctly. A simple matter of altering a wire. However, I needed to leave it to someone else as I wasn't party to the relay's schematic.
I suppose that a temporary workaround could be to disconnect the leisure battery from the relay and bench charge it each night. Not ideal but only a stopgap.
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i dont think its got a seperate battery , cant see one, as far as i know its all rigged to van battery.
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Morning lads, sorry to here about the battery problem, can't help you I was going to be cheeky and ask spruce on his thoughts about this... ;D
In one of the vans every time we put the lights on the radio loses all power ie turns off completely turn lights off radio back on, have looked at wiring but typically it's all short and hard to see, would there be anything else to look at? ( ps was absolutely fine until we put in a 3 way ciggi lighter accessory ( now removed )
Darran
Hi Darran.
Usually this problem affects non factory supply radios.
I would start by removing the radio and checking the connections to the back. Non factory supply radios have cable adaptors that allow a standard radio to fit a couple of different configurations, changed with push in connectors.
If the radio is wired in to switch off with the ignition, does the same thing happen if you change the plug over to the one that has constant power where you have to manually switch the radio off?
If it does then the chances are that the radio's earth wire is plugged into the illumination wire rather than the earth wire. When you put the light on current is supplied to this illumination wire and the earth is lost - radio becomes dead.
Sorry, but it is a fiddly job to remove that lot. If you are doing it, watch the aerial cable doesn't pull out and disappear into the back of the dashboard.
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Sorry to hear about your van, try and take the radio out and leave it out.see if that works if not phone the guy up and ask him about the van. Good luck😡
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right spruce you seem to know a lot about this stuff, ive just followed the wiring from controller and pump and its rigged up to fuse box, thats gotta cause problems aint it??
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No this wont cause problems. 12v Power is 12v power wherever you take it from. You have a drain from the battery somewhere. Pop to any GOOD motoring shop (motor factors) (not motorworld) they will have a piece of test equipment (supplied by there battery supplier) which will enable them to not only check the condition of your battery but what current is getting drawn from it at rest. It involves dissconnecting the battery and placing the meter in between the positive power cable and the battery.
Hope this helps. The drain from the battery could be anything . Starter motors, alternators, radio or your pump and controller are prime suspects. A cheap under capacity split charge relay will heat up and its contacts will melt, this could cause the short. A good old fashioned auto electrician will sort it quickly.
Hope this helps
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When I reconnect the battery after I charge it, there is a noise from Central locking, is that normal?
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Does your van have a central locking alarm on it?? If so this can be normal
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i dont think its got a seperate battery , cant see one, as far as i know its all rigged to van battery.
OK. See what you mean. I should have read with more care.
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ive disconnected pump and controller, will leave it till tonight see what happens, really anoys me when people sell vans that have an obvious fault and dont tell you, its not as if its an expensive thing to fix , just a pain in the ass
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Hi Dave
Thanks for coming along and adding your expertise as an ex auto electrician.
A drain on the battery can be a tough thing to find if you are a novice. An experienced auto electrician will do this on a regular basis and will have a plan of where and what to start with.
Cheers
Bruce
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Cheers spruce,
It is an aftermarket radio,
I'll look into this week thanks for the advise
Back to the original thread topic 😃
Darran
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Paul
I didn't realise that you had bought a van with a sysyem already in it - gleaned from another post on hot water.
There could be some other accessory that he has fitted to the system that has been left switched on that is draining the battery - a 12v hot water heater element etc.
I would phone this guy you bought it from and tell him your problem (nicely) and ask if he is aware of what it could be that's flattening the battery. Didn't someone once try to use those 12v electrical water heater units for the windscreen washers on his wfp system?
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the hot weater heater seems to have an ignition from batterys, after leaving pump and controller off over night it has started this morning, still not 100 percent convinced so will start it again tonight fingers crossed