Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jonny 87 on February 09, 2014, 02:23:19 am
-
http://www.riseandshinewindowcleaners.co.uk/about.php (http://www.riseandshinewindowcleaners.co.uk/about.php)
Stumbled across this company's website. They have pretty much a whole page explaining why trad is "proven to be superior."
It's the first time I've seen a company make a large part of their website "anti WFP"
It almost comes across as they've got something to prove and a bit unprofessional in my opinion, and although I'm WFP I would never slag off trad on my website to try and gain custies.
Bit annoyed at it when I read.... "proven to be superior"..... as it adds to people's wrong view about WFP, and is actually a lie about WFP.
Anyone know this company?
Or are they on here?
-
I never make a mistake trad , well hardly ever .
Wfp sometimes when I do some insides I can see the odd trickle of dirt .
But that's us with the KEEN eye .
I don't judge them against each other , I use both , I'm good at both , simple .
Wfp if persons clean correctly Is very good , as long as you take your time with it then Wfp is good .
Rinse and rinse
Never had a complaint , got a few custies that prefere trad , so I do trad on them houses .
All I know is Wfp is far easier , especially in overcast cold conditions as drying with cloths in this is hard
-
i think wfp does a beta job is quicker 90 percent of the time but some with realy bad rubbers r a pain so its quicker to trad them as they can leave runs even if u turn water of shake brush an swip the top fraim an rubber sill but its unfair to say wfp is not as good they an gives it a bad name
-
Let them get on with it, that is the way they see it and that is Fine.
I quoted for a 3 year contract on a warden controlled complex, didn't stand a chance as I'm wfp and the residents wanted trad as they didn't like the pole system. Now the contract is up in April and the owners are now saying it has to be wfp due to insurances for the complex. Fingers crossed.
-
ive got a few jobs where they insist on wfp due to insurance issues
-
Let them get on with it, that is the way they see it and that is Fine.
I quoted for a 3 year contract on a warden controlled complex, didn't stand a chance as I'm wfp and the residents wanted trad as they didn't like the pole system. Now the contract is up in April and the owners are now saying it has to be wfp due to insurances for the complex. Fingers crossed.
Is that that lot I quoted for as well a few years Steve?
-
Yes, matt was told on Friday.
-
I think it's rather funny why they still belong to The British Window Cleaners Academy being owned by ionics and all. ;D
It is also mention on their site that they do risk assessments and methods statements but still use ladders to clean 3 storey windows. ???
Each to their own I suppose....
-
many WFP websites milk the advantage of it so its always best that trad do the same.
-
Unbeleivable Jeff
-
i have to say i aint fussed which is better we are all in this game to make a living so long as the custy is happy. they are pros and cons in both,but the main pro is the saftey aspect.the more regulated this industry is the better ,and bring the genral publics view to window cleaning out of the dark ages sooner the better,ie the stan ogdens of this profestion.
-
That's okay. Let them crack on. It's their business they're running.
Nice enough website. Looks professional enough okay they've probably used a bit of artistic licence in what they say about the failings of WFP but not mentioned the problems associated with trad cleaning. It's their drum, let them bang it as they see fit.
Proof is in the pudding- customers can leave if they want.
I know after working off a ladder for 12 years which is my 'weapon of choice'. They are allowed to clean trad without criticism.
-
"Having tried the new 'Water Fed pole'- 'Wash & Reach’ systems, we found the results to be somewhat disappointing"
...not doing it properly then. Probably rushing and not rinsing properly. Dont blame the tool!
-
Each to thier own.
-
Who gives a toss about what some firm's website says about WFP? What if they put up on there saying WFP guys don't know how to clean insides, or all WFP guys are shirtlifters. Who's going to read it?
-
let them put there lives at risk, they must do some high windows, they know the dangers. if i didnt do wfp cleaning i would have lost a lot of ££££££££ due to wind factors, if doing trad.
its our own choice which way we clean, they like us are only trying to sell themselfs. fair play to all.
-
There is one chap local to me that slags of wfp bigtime on his site but he is still a nice bloke as trad is his thing. Had to laugh though as he passes on enquires on stuff that he can't clean after seeing the standard of work I do at a couple of his window cleaning customer houses.
Yep his customers contacted me first as was wanting full exterior cleans including gutter clearing, all plastics, gutters fascias , soffits, etc cleaned also awkward access conservatory roofs aswell.... Go figure ;D
So that chap lost out on a few bob to say the least but is still their regular window cleaner as I never like to take works off others unless the customer asks for a quote.
-
i agree its their own choice what to use and how to promote it
however if i was a custie i would not be best pleased with a ladder placed against the frame of my upvc window as i shown on their homepage??!!!!!!!!!!
could mark it/ could slip and go through glass etc
-
Sorry but i can't see what the problem is and why anyone should get so annoyed.
If they prefer to work trad only then that is there usp and why not plug that aspect ?
How many times have you seen wfp websites plugging its plus sides, privacy , no marks on the lawn, streak free, no broken roof tiles etc. - its just the same thing.
-
I think when your start using words like "Superior" then just might annoy others ;D
Sorry but i can't see what the problem is and why anyone should get so annoyed.
If they prefer to work trad only then that is there usp and why not plug that aspect ?
How many times have you seen wfp websites plugging its plus sides, privacy , no marks on the lawn, streak free, no broken roof tiles etc. - its just the same thing.
-
He has done something right...He's got everybody attention. ;D
-
Yep indeed ;D
-
Sorry but i can't see what the problem is and why anyone should get so annoyed.
If they prefer to work trad only then that is there usp and why not plug that aspect ?
How many times have you seen wfp websites plugging its plus sides, privacy , no marks on the lawn, streak free, no broken roof tiles etc. - its just the same thing.
I'm probably over protective of WFP.lol
I'm extremely thorough and do the best job possible. In 3 years of cleaning 350 plus customers every 4 weeks I can count on one hand the number of complaints I've had.
Pretty much every new customer I get thinks WFP is rubbish because of how the last WFP guys used it, and this gives it a bad name, and I find it really frustrating as it takes a clean or two to win their trust with it.
I Don't really know how you can say there's nothing wrong with it when it's a outright lie. Anything the WFP guys say is truth. I.e frames get all washed down, glass is cleaner for longer, no risk of broken roof tiles. All true.
I would never say WFP is far superior! Even though I may think it. Lol
-
Put it this way if they started taking loads of work from you then that's when you would need to get worried and maybe annoyed. Until then let them get on with it bud as long as they don’t breach trading standards regulations there is nothing anyone can do anyhow.
https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-advertising
-
Put it this way if they started taking loads of work from you then that's when you would need to get worried and maybe annoyed. Until then let them get on with it bud as long as they don’t breach trading standards regulations there is nothing anyone can do anyhow.
https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-advertising
Your right mate. Wise words.
-
I think when your start using words like "Superior" then just might annoy others ;D
They're only voicing their opinion. You have yours, he has his.
-
I think the whole trad v wfp thing is a shame.
Yes I am wfp but I can also trad.
Personally I don't give a t*ss what anyone else does because fundamentally...I don't care.
I have a few bungalows that I still do trad (the old dears love it) and I actually really enjoy doing it, especially when the sun's on your back and there's a cuppa and a biscuit waiting for me ;D
Personally I wouldn't waste my time slagging one method off against another (I don't think the customers really care). I would spend my time selling the benefits of MY company and the high quality of clean that I provide; whichever method it is.
-
i agree its their own choice what to use and how to promote it
however if i was a custie i would not be best pleased with a ladder placed against the frame of my upvc window as i shown on their homepage??!!!!!!!!!!
could mark it/ could slip and go through glass etc
One ladder has ladder mits on it and the other 3 are pointers with rubber at the top.
I take it you've never used a pointed ladder?
-
i agree its their own choice what to use and how to promote it
however if i was a custie i would not be best pleased with a ladder placed against the frame of my upvc window as i shown on their homepage??!!!!!!!!!!
could mark it/ could slip and go through glass etc
One ladder has ladder mits on it and the other 3 are pointers with rubber at the top.
I take it you've never used a pointed ladder?
i wouldnt because for several reasons i would not want it placed against the window!
-
i agree its their own choice what to use and how to promote it
however if i was a custie i would not be best pleased with a ladder placed against the frame of my upvc window as i shown on their homepage??!!!!!!!!!!
could mark it/ could slip and go through glass etc
One ladder has ladder mits on it and the other 3 are pointers with rubber at the top.
I take it you've never used a pointed ladder?
I take it you've never seen a PVC frame crack under the pressure? Trust me it can happen. It's daft putting the pointer there. I use pointers and would put it above the windows onto the wall.
Actually hang on, I'd WFP it. Lol
-
Hardly anyone will find the site anyway as the on page SEO is very poor.
-
Yep most of those pvc-u window frames will flex and are in general not bolted in very well either.
To use a pointy ladder like that is crazy if you ask me ;D
-
Funny isn't it how everyone has to try to prove a point, even if its nothing to do with the OP.
-
It's is called having a discussion ;D
-
Talking about the tits on page three is having a discussion.
Talking about the tits on here is having an arguement.
;D
-
It's alway good to talk ;D
-
;D
-
Anyhow trad vs wfp has always been a contentious topic and always will be. After all they are just tools of the trade and you choose the most appropriate tools/methods most suited to each job as many will use both methods not just one or the other.
-
I take it you've never seen a PVC frame crack under the pressure? Trust me it can happen. It's daft putting the pointer there. I use pointers and would put it above the windows onto the wall.
Actually hang on, I'd WFP it. Lol
Nope. Never seen one crack. Ever.
Never heard of one cracking either.
The ladder isn't on the glass, it's on the frame that's made to an industry standard in terms of strength, etc. It's made to withstand, I think, 150mph winds.
And yes, I'd wfp it as well but if that lot want to do the job trad, then that's up to them and if they want to promote themselves by stating that trad is better, then more power to their elbow.
-
I had to get my pvc-u window frames rebolted back into the wall and re-weather sealed inside and out many moons ago because of a trad guy resting his ladders on the frames simular to that. Was fitted properly by a very well know company but the window cleaners was established to have coursed them to fail and he had to pay out of his own pocket get it sorted.
So my advice is don't rest pointy ladders on plastic frames ;D
-
I think the whole trad v wfp thing is a shame.
Yes I am wfp but I can also trad.
Personally I don't give a t*ss what anyone else does because fundamentally...I don't care.
I have a few bungalows that I still do trad (the old dears love it) and I actually really enjoy doing it, especially when the sun's on your back and there's a cuppa and a biscuit waiting for me ;D
Personally I wouldn't waste my time slagging one method off against another (I don't think the customers really care). I would spend my time selling the benefits of MY company and the high quality of clean that I provide; whichever method it is.
Well said. :)
John
-
I wasn't too happy with the plumber recently,he used a set of springs to bend the pipe,i wanted him to use pipe benders.
My chippy arrived the same day,told him off for using his cordless planer,told him to use his spear and Jackson.
Went to the dentist for a check up, I was so annoyed he didn't do an xray after the check up unlike my old dentist.
Took van in for a service but only allowed the mechanic to do the service after I carefully inspected all his tools and he explained in full detail what his method was going to be.
WFP... SAFE EARNS ME DOUBLE
TRAD... DANGEREOUS SLOW CANT BE DONE IN RAIN AND ITS PAST ITS SELL BY DATE.
DO I CARE WHAT CUSTOMERS THINK,HELL NOOO ITS MY BUSINESS AND MY FUTURE
-
I take it you don't do many shop fronts or inside jobs then? ;D
-
ive hurd ladders resting on the sill can make them leek its a lot of pressure with ur waight resting on a bit of upvc
-
I take it you don't do many shop fronts or inside jobs then? ;D
I Trad insides ;D WFP shop fronts,if I cant manage wfp on shop fronts then I don't take em on,i hate the thought of squeegee work,done 14 years of that
-
I had to get my pvc-u window frames rebolted back into the wall and re-weather sealed inside and out many moons ago because of a trad guy resting his ladders on the frames simular to that. Was fitted properly by a very well know company but the window cleaners was established to have coursed them to fail and he had to pay out of his own pocket get it sorted.
So my advice is don't rest pointy ladders on plastic frames ;D
I wonder just how it was 'established' that the window cleaner caused the securing bolts to fail? Must be a bit of a hard thing to prove but having said that, I'm sure the window cleaner just held his hands up and coughed up the money easily enough as after all, it had been established he was to blame. I'm surprised the brick work didn't suffer the same type of failure due to the window cleaner. Lucky bloke, he could have been paying for the house to have been re built.
If the weight of a window cleaning ladder caused the bolts to fail then they could have been put in right to start with.
It was a good job your house wasn't subjected to any strong winds before hand.
-
trippy trading insides last week
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy203/paultripp1965/clearviewinsides_zpse0f0d918.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/user/paultripp1965/media/clearviewinsides_zpse0f0d918.jpg.html)
-
I had to get my pvc-u window frames rebolted back into the wall and re-weather sealed inside and out many moons ago because of a trad guy resting his ladders on the frames simular to that. Was fitted properly by a very well know company but the window cleaners was established to have coursed them to fail and he had to pay out of his own pocket get it sorted.
So my advice is don't rest pointy ladders on plastic frames ;D
I wonder just how it was 'established' that the window cleaner caused the securing bolts to fail? Must be a bit of a hard thing to prove but having said that, I'm sure the window cleaner just held his hands up and coughed up the money easily enough as after all, it had been established he was to blame. I'm surprised the brick work didn't suffer the same type of failure due to the window cleaner. Lucky bloke, he could have been paying for the house to have been re built.
If the weight of a window cleaning ladder caused the bolts to fail then they could have been put in right to start with.
It was a good job your house wasn't subjected to any strong winds before hand.
It's not just "the weight of the ladder".
If your at quite a high window and your at the top of the ladder, you've got alot your weight pushing onto the A as well.
Still can't believe your arguing it's ok to put a ladder up against the weakest point of a UPVC frame. It's common sense to put it on the brick work.
-
I take it you don't do many shop fronts or inside jobs then? ;D
We do a grand total of three shops. Two are done WFP the other is done trad. There's no rhyme nor reason why they're done that way. Although I seem to remember when we took one of them on I just said it'll be done with the pole system.
No ones said anything since and we've been doing them with the pole.
-
Yep it seems some just lack common sence for sure but hey it would be a dull world without them.
I had to get my pvc-u window frames rebolted back into the wall and re-weather sealed inside and out many moons ago because of a trad guy resting his ladders on the frames simular to that. Was fitted properly by a very well know company but the window cleaners was established to have coursed them to fail and he had to pay out of his own pocket get it sorted.
So my advice is don't rest pointy ladders on plastic frames ;D
I wonder just how it was 'established' that the window cleaner caused the securing bolts to fail? Must be a bit of a hard thing to prove but having said that, I'm sure the window cleaner just held his hands up and coughed up the money easily enough as after all, it had been established he was to blame. I'm surprised the brick work didn't suffer the same type of failure due to the window cleaner. Lucky bloke, he could have been paying for the house to have been re built.
If the weight of a window cleaning ladder caused the bolts to fail then they could have been put in right to start with.
It was a good job your house wasn't subjected to any strong winds before hand.
It's not just "the weight of the ladder".
If your at quite a high window and your at the top of the ladder, you've got alot your weight pushing onto the A as well.
Still can't believe your arguing it's ok to put a ladder up against the weakest point of a UPVC frame. It's common sense to put it on the brick work.
-
If you can get away with it then why not bud ;)
I take it you don't do many shop fronts or inside jobs then? ;D
We do a grand total of three shops. Two are done WFP the other is done trad. There's no rhyme nor reason why they're done that way. Although I seem to remember when we took one of them on I just said it'll be done with the pole system.
No ones said anything since and we've been doing them with the pole.
-
I take it you've never seen a PVC frame crack under the pressure? Trust me it can happen. It's daft putting the pointer there. I use pointers and would put it above the windows onto the wall.
Actually hang on, I'd WFP it. Lol
Nope. Never seen one crack. Ever.
Never heard of one cracking either.
The ladder isn't on the glass, it's on the frame that's made to an industry standard in terms of strength, etc. It's made to withstand, I think, 150mph winds.
And yes, I'd wfp it as well but if that lot want to do the job trad, then that's up to them and if they want to promote themselves by stating that trad is better, then more power to their elbow.
As a side note;
Wind speeds of 150mph exert a pressure of 85 kilos per square foot.
The point of a a frame has a lot less surface area than a square foot, (probably a third of that) so that pressure will actually increase. 85 kilos is about average weight. So if your to put your A frame ladder onto a PVC frame like that, it's the same as it getting battered with 100 mph plus wind. That can't be good having that done every month for getting the windows cleaned.
When was the last time you experienced 100mph winds? (Don't say after you had hot curry.)
But yeah basically, resting a pointer like that is a big no no.
-
I love listening to this guy ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZBoOo2gvtw
-
It's not just "the weight of the ladder".
If your at quite a high window and your at the top of the ladder, you've got alot your weight pushing onto the A as well.
Still can't believe your arguing it's ok to put a ladder up against the weakest point of a UPVC frame. It's common sense to put it on the brick work.
I know it's not just the weight of the ladder. The weight of a ladder with someone cleaning windows must obviously include the weight of the person cleaning the winders minus the effects of the angle. Der........
Of course it's common sense etc, etc, etc.
I suggest you write to all the window replacement companies to put warning stickers on the frames to warn of the dangers and at the same time, inform the H & S because they've obviously never looked into the problem and while you're at it, just pray the wind never blows hard other wise you'll be having to replace replace those window bolts.
Or to put it bluntly, and sorry if this sounds rude, I know BS when I smell it.
-
Trad is superior and if any of you old biddys disagree with me you will
feel the weight of my handbag across the back of your neck.
-
it just goes to show some window cleaning companies are a bit strange.
i know a company with a few vans on the road and they mainly use trad on domestics.ive seen employees climbing on sloping roofs to clean windows when they have wfp in the van.
2 of em cleaning 2 houses i used to do (but they were messers so i dropped them). ;D
i clean 90+ houses on this estate ALL wfp.them? 2 houses trad. 8)
ive met the boss a few times and he said that his domestic customers wouldnt accept wfp so they trad them! ::)roll ;D
-
I think when your start using words like "Superior" then just might annoy others ;D
Sorry but i can't see what the problem is and why anyone should get so annoyed.
If they prefer to work trad only then that is there usp and why not plug that aspect ?
How many times have you seen wfp websites plugging its plus sides, privacy , no marks on the lawn, streak free, no broken roof tiles etc. - its just the same thing.
well, I am a window cleaner who uses wfp and I am not annoyed, so why should anyone else be ? ;D ;)
-
He could of put the ladders like that to get the photo for the web site. He may not clean the window with the ladders resting on them!
-
Very true ;)
He could of put the ladders like that to get the photo for the web site. He may not clean the window with the ladders resting on them!
-
PVC-U window frames can and in my case did become loose after a period of time because of a window cleaner resting ladders on them. That's all I have to say on this matter bud.... ;)
It's not just "the weight of the ladder".
If your at quite a high window and your at the top of the ladder, you've got alot your weight pushing onto the A as well.
Still can't believe your arguing it's ok to put a ladder up against the weakest point of a UPVC frame. It's common sense to put it on the brick work.
I know it's not just the weight of the ladder. The weight of a ladder with someone cleaning windows must obviously include the weight of the person cleaning the winders minus the effects of the angle. Der........
Of course it's common sense etc, etc, etc.
I suggest you write to all the window replacement companies to put warning stickers on the frames to warn of the dangers and at the same time, inform the H & S because they've obviously never looked into the problem and while you're at it, just pray the wind never blows hard other wise you'll be having to replace replace those window bolts.
Or to put it bluntly, and sorry if this sounds rude, I know BS when I smell it.
-
PVC-U window frames can and in my case did become loose after a period of time because of a window cleaner resting ladders on them. That's all I have to say on this matter bud.... ;)
It's not just "the weight of the ladder".
If your at quite a high window and your at the top of the ladder, you've got alot your weight pushing onto the A as well.
Still can't believe your arguing it's ok to put a ladder up against the weakest point of a UPVC frame. It's common sense to put it on the brick work.
I know it's not just the weight of the ladder. The weight of a ladder with someone cleaning windows must obviously include the weight of the person cleaning the winders minus the effects of the angle. Der........
Of course it's common sense etc, etc, etc.
I suggest you write to all the window replacement companies to put warning stickers on the frames to warn of the dangers and at the same time, inform the H & S because they've obviously never looked into the problem and while you're at it, just pray the wind never blows hard other wise you'll be having to replace replace those window bolts.
Or to put it bluntly, and sorry if this sounds rude, I know BS when I smell it.
Must admit that did make me chuckle thinking it was a joke, reminds me when a customer cancelled because she said the spray of water from my brush on her house front was causing damp and all her wallpaper was coming loose...what utter rubbish ;D ;D
-
If the window frames and even single glazed windows are not sealed properly it wont help using a wfp for sure. Some types of window frames can let water in too so she may not be that bonkers after all. Doors can be the same ;D
Some domestic (manly older folk) dont like there windows being left wet also water running down their walls. Also when working on shop fronts most want them left dry and sparkling so customers can see inside.
-
He could of put the ladders like that to get the photo for the web site. He may not clean the window with the ladders resting on them!
On a similiar note he may not even be a window cleaner.
-
He could of put the ladders like that to get the photo for the web site. He may not clean the window with the ladders resting on them!
On a similiar note he may not even be a window cleaner.
Lol. ;D
I always look forward to your replies mr Bateman. :)
-
If the window frames and even single glazed windows are not sealed properly it wont help using a wfp for sure. Some types of window frames can let water in too so she may not be that bonkers after all. Doors can be the same ;D
Some domestic (manly older folk) dont like there windows being left wet also water running down their walls. Also when working on shop fronts most want them left dry and sparkling so customers can see inside.
correct.
-
He could of put the ladders like that to get the photo for the web site. He may not clean the window with the ladders resting on them!
On a similiar note he may not even be a window cleaner.
He might sell ladders...Or PVC windows!
-
Good luck to them!
Last laugh is on us :)
-
maybe is just a ladder kleptomaniac so keep an eye out on yer ladders chaps especialy the pointy ones ;D
-
I'm off to Tenerife next week and I want to fly in a proper aeroplane with propellors. None of this new-fangled jet stuff and certainly no contrails for Mark the Acorn to get upset about.
It'll take six and a half hours instead of four but that's traditional flying that is.
-
I'm off to Tenerife next week and I want to fly in a proper aeroplane with propellors. None of this new-fangled jet stuff and certainly no contrails for Mark the Acorn to get upset about.
It'll take six and a half hours instead of four but that's traditional flying that is.
yeh wright airways they started this whole flying thing
-
I'm off to Tenerife next week and I want to fly in a proper aeroplane with propellors. None of this new-fangled jet stuff and certainly no contrails for Mark the Acorn to get upset about.
It'll take six and a half hours instead of four but that's traditional flying that is.
Six hours in an aeroplane with propellers would still be better than going in a Ryanair jet. ;D