Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Hard Floor Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Graeme Smith on February 04, 2014, 08:57:55 pm
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391547369_Coldwell1.jpg)
Apart from scratched - can anyone ID this tile have not seen it yet - limestone/travertine??
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Graeme
It looks like limestone are there an fossils in it?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Not seen it yet British gas dragged something across the floor whilst working for customer - thought it was limestone - find out on friday. Its the bathroom floor - think it was the toilet that was dragged, the chap tried to hide it with a bath mat but the lady of the house busted him :)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391547369_Coldwell1.jpg)
Apart from scratched - can anyone ID this tile have not seen it yet - limestone/travertine??
We used to sell a yellow Travertine years ago that looked like this. I have enlarged your photo and it looks like there are some patches of filler in there. Where is the job?
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Sunny huddersfield
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Not seen it yet British gas dragged something across the floor whilst working for customer - thought it was limestone - find out on friday. Its the bathroom floor - think it was the toilet that was dragged, the chap tried to hide it with a bath mat but the lady of the house busted him :)
OK just let me know when you look at it. Travertine & Limestone are easy to differentiate. The restoration process is the same anyway.
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Graeme, it is maybe worth pointing out that restoring a Good Quality Limestone with a diamond disc type of product will not give you the same results as with Travertine. Travertine has natural holes as parts of its make up, a good quality Limestone doesn't.
All I am adding is, if you restore the Travertine with diamonds, you will reveal more holes and will need filling.
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Graeme, it is maybe worth pointing out that restoring a Good Quality Limestone with a diamond disc type of product will not give you the same results as with Travertine. Travertine has natural holes as parts of its make up, a good quality Limestone doesn't.
All I am adding is, if you restore the Travertine with diamonds, you will reveal more holes and will need filling.
Rob
How many Limestone & Travertine floors have you fully restored using a Planetario fitted with Metal Sintered Diamonds and then run up through the Resin grits?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
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Graeme, it is maybe worth pointing out that restoring a Good Quality Limestone with a diamond disc type of product will not give you the same results as with Travertine. Travertine has natural holes as parts of its make up, a good quality Limestone doesn't.
All I am adding is, if you restore the Travertine with diamonds, you will reveal more holes and will need filling.
Rob
How many Limestone & Travertine floors have you fully restored using a Planetario fitted with Metal Sintered Diamonds and then run up through the Resin grits?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Who mentioned a Planetario and metal sintered diamonds...???? Not me!!
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That is how that floor needs to be restored and Graeme has the Klindex equipment to do it!
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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In my opinion TOTAL OVERKILL for such a soft floor.
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It depends what the client wants but it could possibly be done with a couple of honing powder grits as an alternative provided the scratches are not too deep. But Graeme will need to check the depth of the scratches first with his vernier. That said they look too deep to me based on my extensive experience of restoring these types of floor.
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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I assume that the client wants the scratches removing.
Looking at the evidence, we have a British Gas worker dragging something across a bathroom floor. Now, unless there are some really strange people in Huddersfield who have cookers in their bathrooms, it will probably be some kind of heater maybe? I doubt if the scratches are of the depth that require sintered diamonds.
However I bow to your "Extensive Experience".
Graeme, I hope the customer is ready for your quote, it is certainly going to cost them dearly with this method.
Alternatively, grab yourself a Variable Speed Flex Machine with some 4" pads, it should take you an hour with my method. If you fancy it, I can give you an hour tomorrow, I will give you a hand if you haven't bought a Flex by now.
Alternatively, drag the 100KG machine up the stairs to the bathroom and try and work with it in a bathroom.... ??? ??? Utter Madness if you ask me. Is this really the voice of Experiance ??? ???
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Rob
On the whole you present reasonable banter but you clearly like arguing and seeing if you can create a problem especially with the last line of your last post?
The sad fact is yes it is the voice of experience and I will try to explain why! FYI British Gas do everything these days from Toilet Cisterns to fully Electric rewires so it could have been anything from a toilet cistern to a 500 Litre water tank they were trying to get up into the attic. I have seen various things dragged over floors both commercial and residential in my time ranging from a small sofa to a full blown commercial photocopier and in 98% of cases we have had to do a complete restoration.
You think because you have done a few floors you know how to do a restoration but in reality how many LARGE floors lets say over 10M2 have you successfully restored with your 4" Machine? When I say successfully I mean would I be able to see any dishing, rippling, undulation or polish marks where you had been with the machine? If so have you got any pictures? You may have got a floor done to a clients satisfaction but in all honesty you know it is impossible to restore any floor of any size with a 4" Machine don't you?
Or indeed if you are that good with a 4" machine I have a job coming up in Colne Lancashire, not that far from you that I have just signed up which is going to need about 12 hours of extra work and where I am going to need to take 4 different machines to restore his floor because of the complexity and particularly the lippage on some edges around his stairs and under his glass steps. If you can come and remove that lippage which is about 4" wide and about 8 Linear metres Name your price and I will pay it within reason!!! How does £50 per Linear metre sound??? Which in real terms is £400 for less than 1 M2 of restoration isn't it?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Rob
On the whole you present reasonable banter but you clearly like arguing and seeing if you can create a problem especially with the last line of your last post?
The sad fact is yes it is the voice of experience and I will try to explain why! FYI British Gas do everything these days from Toilet Cisterns to fully Electric rewires so it could have been anything from a toilet cistern to a 500 Litre water tank they were trying to get up into the attic. I have seen various things dragged over floors both commercial and residential in my time ranging from a small sofa to a full blown commercial photocopier and in 98% of cases we have had to do a complete restoration.
You think because you have done a few floors you know how to do a restoration but in reality how many LARGE floors lets say over 10M2 have you successfully restored with your 4" Machine? When I say successfully I mean would I be able to see any dishing, rippling, undulation or polish marks where you had been with the machine? If so have you got any pictures? You may have got a floor done to a clients satisfaction but in all honesty you know it is impossible to restore any floor of any size with a 4" Machine don't you?
Or indeed if you are that good with a 4" machine I have a job coming up in Colne Lancashire, not that far from you that I have just signed up which is going to need about 12 hours of extra work and where I am going to need to take 4 different machines to restore his floor because of the complexity and particularly the lippage on some edges around his stairs and under his glass steps. If you can come and remove that lippage which is about 4" wide and about 8 Linear metres Name your price and I will pay it within reason!!! How does £50 per Linear metre sound??? Which in real terms is £400 for less than 1 M2 of restoration isn't it?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
First of all Kevin, No, I don't like arguing, you really need to look over your messages to people. The arrogance is there for all to see. This is the exact reason why I do not see eye to eye with you simply because I cannot stand arrogant people. At least I am honest and tell you. However, I have always said, I respect you for your experience and help that you offer. I just wish you could roll your neck in sometimes and stop your "attitude" with anyone else who DARES to question YOUR theory.
However, in this instance, looking at the scratches that Graeme is trying to remove, they do not look like they have been made by very much do they? A 500ltr water tank? Nah, don't think so. A cistern, Yeah, probably. But come on...REALLY a levi to remove those scratches...come on Kevin, I know you sold Graeme a Levi but it is a Sledge Hammer to crack a nut in this case. If he had bought a Samich Legend from me, I would have still said..."use a Flex machine with some 4" pads"
I continue...
You ask how many floors have I done with my 4" machine over 10m2?
(Just picked myself up off the floor from laughing!!)
ANSWER;
NOT MANY!
I have a 17" machine for that.... With some brand new machines due in this week from Italy. Does that help you?
FYI Kevin, I have done more than "a few floors" my dear boy. Why I have to justify myself to you is beyond me, but, I have been in this game now since 1987, installing, restoring, maintaining etc etc.....YOU? What makes YOU the Authority in our industry?
Why do you think that you are the only one that is capable?? You are not. I doubt wether you are really as good as you say, especially after all the crap you have spouted on this thread.....I mean....come on.....a Levi in a Bathroom???? ;D
Take a look at my website....all the pictures you need to see are on there.
So, where do you come up with all your theory about my work??
Let me ask you a question...How many jobs of mine have you ever been on?
I will answer that for you because every time I ask you a question that you are embarrassed to answer...you never do!
Oh, the answer by the way....NONE!
Regarding you last paragraph.
I have never removed lippage with a 4" machine of that size, why would I??? Small jobs..yes!
If you are saying that you cant do it, I will do it for you, when would you like it doing? What is the material? When are you doing it? Just bear in mind that I am busy up until April.
That poor..poor customer!! If you can afford to pay me £50 per linear metre, what on earth are you charging? You really can rip people off cant you?
So, to sum up.
I do not do ALL my work with a 4" flex. My 4" flex is perfect for getting into all those areas most people leave behind. My DIAMOND and SIC BRUSHES (which I think is what you are getting at) replace the need for EXPENSIVE AND USELESS CHEMICAL PRODUCTS.
My 17" machine, fitted with a 17" diamond brush cleans a floor in the time that you have got your chemicals out of your van and applied 6 or 7 times. Soon, people will realise that using Diamonds and Water rather than Chemicals, is safer, cheaper AND QUICKER.
So, Kevin, in a country of free speech, I will have my say on items that I probably know as much, if not more than you about. If I don't...I won't. OK? In the mean time, try a different approach of less arrogance, calm down a little and realise, there sometimes are different approaches to different jobs. You may not like me selling Diamond Brushes because for everyone I sell, it is less of that Chemical nonsense for you to pedal.
Have a nice day. ;D
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Rob
Your post says it all! Good luck with your range of machines when you get them this week! This is your final reply from me on anything!
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Rob
Your post says it all! Good luck with your range of machines when you get them this week! This is your final reply from me on anything!
Ha Ha...I thought it might be.
THE TRUTH HURTS KEVIN!!!
;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768109_damage1coldwell.JPG)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768124_damage2coldwell.JPG)
BTW its Travertine (polished) and it was the toilet being dragged -the scratches are less than 0.5mm but fairly wide at. The floor is already cracked as almost every travertine tiled floor I've worked on is. The damage is to two tiles in the main and 1 other
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768109_damage1coldwell.JPG)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768124_damage2coldwell.JPG)
BTW its Travertine (polished) and it was the toilet being dragged -the scratches are less than 0.5mm but fairly wide at. The floor is already cracked as almost every travertine tiled floor I've worked on is. The damage is to two tiles in the main and 1 other
Drag your Levi up there Graeme, you got it, you might as well use it!
or
Buy yourself a flex (I will sell you one of mine if you like) you will have those scratches removed in the time you have heaved 100 kilos up the stairs.
To be honest, it doesnt look to me like much damage, I wouldnt say it had been caused by a 500 ltr water tank or even a cistern!!! ;D
If it is Travertine, it is the easiest job you will ever do with some 4" diamond discs.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768109_damage1coldwell.JPG)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1391768124_damage2coldwell.JPG)
BTW its Travertine (polished) and it was the toilet being dragged -the scratches are less than 0.5mm but fairly wide at. The floor is already cracked as almost every travertine tiled floor I've worked on is. The damage is to two tiles in the main and 1 other
Graeme
Those photos are a lot better than the first lot you posted! If it is very light scratching and restricted to just two tiles it will come out with a few hand diamonds like we showed you on the course then just use Aqua Mix Renue to bring it back. Trust me don't start getting involved with 4" Diamonds on hand polishers until you have gained a lot of experience no matter what you are being told!
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Graeme
4" Diamond pads are a damn site easier than using hand pads...trust me! Hand pads are pre-historic for this type of job.
Experience eh? Why don't you come on a job with me Kevin, I can teach you some new ways of doing things. ( I note you didn't answer my questions again, just don't want to chat anymore?? I wonder why? Maybe hot air again...a bit like buying all those machines from Amir eh??)
And the pictures look exactly the same as the original too!
A flex and some 4" pads, thats ALL you need. Job Done.
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Thanks for (all) the input - the first picture were emailed to be by the British gas man hence the poor quality. The new photos are mine taken with an iphone 4s without a flash so we can actually see whats going on.
I have got a variable speed dry stone polishing machine - storma stonemaster bought from stone gate in Hull about 4 years ago along with silicon carbide paper and a set of 4" diamonds pads (which were crap - the diamonds not the method)
On other jobs I have even done the test of wire cup brush versus 4" diamond brush - one diamond brush off rob and another off stonegate -both methods work - down side of wire cup brush is it can leave a black burn mark on the stone if removing paint or adhesive/rubberized unknown deposits but its only £5.00. Diamond brushes wear quite fast but don't tend to burn but are more like £40.00+ Both can leave a scratch pattern on Victorian tiles or even sandstone flags - the Vicky tiles being the ones you don't want to scratch.
Or the other way is put your prices up to do the job more slowly with a combination of methods - sometimes light abrasion with diamond handblock at 120-220 grit works on problem unglazed tiles - just don't scratch too hard.
Found a Tynex brush on the bottom of a Rocky is very effective if you give it time not just flicking it around the floor.
In other words you need time on hard floor and that means more money. 20m2 of sandstone - just cleaning has to be £500.00 minimum to do a reasonable job - starting to ramp up prices quite quickly now having time to walk away after the job knowing I've made a difference. Some similarities with carpet cleaning in as much as you still get the customers who do not or can not pay you just have to cut them loose - plenty of others who will pay.
Considering who caused the damage and if it had been a bigger open floor area the Levi method would have been the route to push for a better overall job- but you could not swing a very small cat in the room so its a hands and knees job :)
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Thanks for (all) the input - the first picture were emailed to be by the British gas man hence the poor quality. The new photos are mine taken with an iphone 4s without a flash so we can actually see whats going on.
I have got a variable speed dry stone polishing machine - storma stonemaster bought from stone gate in Hull about 4 years ago along with silicon carbide paper and a set of 4" diamonds pads (which were crap - the diamonds not the method)
On other jobs I have even done the test of wire cup brush versus 4" diamond brush - one diamond brush off rob and another off stonegate -both methods work - down side of wire cup brush is it can leave a black burn mark on the stone if removing paint or adhesive/rubberized unknown deposits but its only £5.00. Diamond brushes wear quite fast but don't tend to burn but are more like £40.00+ Both can leave a scratch pattern on Victorian tiles or even sandstone flags - the Vicky tiles being the ones you don't want to scratch.
Or the other way is put your prices up to do the job more slowly with a combination of methods - sometimes light abrasion with diamond handblock at 120-220 grit works on problem unglazed tiles - just don't scratch too hard.
Found a Tynex brush on the bottom of a Rocky is very effective if you give it time not just flicking it around the floor.
In other words you need time on hard floor and that means more money. 20m2 of sandstone - just cleaning has to be £500.00 minimum to do a reasonable job - starting to ramp up prices quite quickly now having time to walk away after the job knowing I've made a difference. Some similarities with carpet cleaning in as much as you still get the customers who do not or can not pay you just have to cut them loose - plenty of others who will pay.
Considering who caused the damage and if it had been a bigger open floor area the Levi method would have been the route to push for a better overall job- but you could not swing a very small cat in the room so its a hands and knees job :)
In my opinion, if you are leaving scratch marks you are using too much force, let the brush do the work.
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This is your statement below which states you have " 27 Years experience"
"FYI Kevin, I have done more than "a few floors" my dear boy. Why I have to justify myself to you is beyond me, but, I have been in this game now since 1987, installing, restoring, maintaining etc etc.....YOU? What makes YOU the Authority in our industry?"
I never said I was the Authority however in January 2012 you did our course that in case you haven't worked it out was 2 YEARS AGO. So according to your statement above even when you came on the course you had 25 YEARS Experience.
Strangely enough from 20 Months ago and less with all that experience here are some of your posts "ON THIS FORUM"
MAY 2012
Hello again Kev
I emailed Antony, but as yet I have not heard back from him. Can you tell me when I can get booked onto the grinding course please??
June 2012
Been asked to look at a scratch on a fireplace, the fireplace is not a stone one, it looks like one of those man made things but it is polished.
Has anyone ever polished one of these types of fireplaces?
Will a wax work on the scratch?
I have some pictures which I will post later.
July 2012
I am looking at changing my wet vac for a twin motor, has anyone got any recommendations on what to buy and what not?
July 2012
I am using a backing plate on my rotary machine with velcro to hold the diamond disks in place....except...it isn't
I have tried to wash the velcro, scrub any contamination off the stuff, but they still keep flying off!
Any suggestions?
July 2012
What is the price for a decent Klindex machine Kev?
Capable of both grinding AND polishing but also, can be used with the cleaning attachments?
I also want a new wet vac and I notice that you do a triple motor, can you give me a price for one of those too.
Any idea of when you are running the grinding course again?
July 2012
We have a Terracotta Floor tiled externally, but we have salts appearing all the time, as if moisture is trapped in the tile. Is there any products to bring out the salts?
The sealer was specified by LTP, the sealer was Colour Intensifier Stainblock, but no linseed oil has been used, this surprised me as we always have oiled in the past....any ideas?
July 2012
No, don't bother, he had an opportunity to sell one last night, he missed it, tuff!! I will be ordering the Levighetor from Kevin, having thought about it it is more suitable for the job and all the parts and back up are here in the UK.
Send him my regards.
September 2012
I too had a large Marble floor to repolish, it was Crema Marfil.
I did an area with Twister pads and another area with the diamonds and left the choice to the customer.
You will not be surprised to learn that they choose the diamonds, it was a much deeper polish, the Twister would have been ok....but thats all...just ok, if I hadn't have given them a choice.
Kev is right, diamonds is the only way.
November 2012
No doubt one here for Kevin...
I have done a job which is a victorian Floor, which has had a covering of bitumen, why on earth people do this, I have no idea!!
The customer had managed to get up 99% of the bitumen off, but there was some staining left.
I used a Black Twister, which has worked really well, unfortunately, there are some tiles where the staining has gone right in. Is there a known method or product on the market to remove these stains?
November 2012
I have just had a look at your website...
Can I ask where you got the white circular round thing that your machine sits in to avoid splashing everything....damn good idea!!
March 2013
Kevin not only runs a good course, they also have decent kit to use. Klindex probably make one of the best machines on the market, The Levighetor.
The Levighetor will be added to my kit as soon as I can afford it.
They are always happy to answer questions over the phone and offer advice. How much is that worth?
AND....their products work.
May 2013
I have a Indian Sandstone floor to clean. It has been sealed over the past 9 years with Lithofin Slate Seal. The seal now needs removing and re-sealing. The client is reluctant to use Slate Seal again as it has proved difficult to maintain. What are YOUR thoughts on a good sealer for Sandstone? I was thinking of using LTP Ironwax gloss. There has to be something that will enhance the colour AND be easier to clean and maintain than Slate Seal.
What do you have Kevin?
I rest my case Mr 27 Years Experience
Now leave me in peace please and work towards your 28th year. I am sure in a few months you will know all there is to know about SAMICH (KLINDEX) products as well ;D ;D ;D ::)roll
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This is your statement below which states you have " 27 Years experience"
"FYI Kevin, I have done more than "a few floors" my dear boy. Why I have to justify myself to you is beyond me, but, I have been in this game now since 1987, installing, restoring, maintaining etc etc.....YOU? What makes YOU the Authority in our industry?"
I never said I was the Authority however in January 2012 you did our course that in case you haven't worked it out was 2 YEARS AGO. So according to your statement above even when you came on the course you had 25 YEARS Experience.
Strangely enough from 20 Months ago and less with all that experience here are some of your posts "ON THIS FORUM"
MAY 2012
Hello again Kev
I emailed Antony, but as yet I have not heard back from him. Can you tell me when I can get booked onto the grinding course please??
June 2012
Been asked to look at a scratch on a fireplace, the fireplace is not a stone one, it looks like one of those man made things but it is polished.
Has anyone ever polished one of these types of fireplaces?
Will a wax work on the scratch?
I have some pictures which I will post later.
July 2012
I am looking at changing my wet vac for a twin motor, has anyone got any recommendations on what to buy and what not?
July 2012
I am using a backing plate on my rotary machine with velcro to hold the diamond disks in place....except...it isn't
I have tried to wash the velcro, scrub any contamination off the stuff, but they still keep flying off!
Any suggestions?
July 2012
What is the price for a decent Klindex machine Kev?
Capable of both grinding AND polishing but also, can be used with the cleaning attachments?
I also want a new wet vac and I notice that you do a triple motor, can you give me a price for one of those too.
Any idea of when you are running the grinding course again?
July 2012
We have a Terracotta Floor tiled externally, but we have salts appearing all the time, as if moisture is trapped in the tile. Is there any products to bring out the salts?
The sealer was specified by LTP, the sealer was Colour Intensifier Stainblock, but no linseed oil has been used, this surprised me as we always have oiled in the past....any ideas?
July 2012
No, don't bother, he had an opportunity to sell one last night, he missed it, tuff!! I will be ordering the Levighetor from Kevin, having thought about it it is more suitable for the job and all the parts and back up are here in the UK.
Send him my regards.
September 2012
I too had a large Marble floor to repolish, it was Crema Marfil.
I did an area with Twister pads and another area with the diamonds and left the choice to the customer.
You will not be surprised to learn that they choose the diamonds, it was a much deeper polish, the Twister would have been ok....but thats all...just ok, if I hadn't have given them a choice.
Kev is right, diamonds is the only way.
November 2012
No doubt one here for Kevin...
I have done a job which is a victorian Floor, which has had a covering of bitumen, why on earth people do this, I have no idea!!
The customer had managed to get up 99% of the bitumen off, but there was some staining left.
I used a Black Twister, which has worked really well, unfortunately, there are some tiles where the staining has gone right in. Is there a known method or product on the market to remove these stains?
November 2012
I have just had a look at your website...
Can I ask where you got the white circular round thing that your machine sits in to avoid splashing everything....damn good idea!!
March 2013
Kevin not only runs a good course, they also have decent kit to use. Klindex probably make one of the best machines on the market, The Levighetor.
The Levighetor will be added to my kit as soon as I can afford it.
They are always happy to answer questions over the phone and offer advice. How much is that worth?
AND....their products work.
May 2013
I have a Indian Sandstone floor to clean. It has been sealed over the past 9 years with Lithofin Slate Seal. The seal now needs removing and re-sealing. The client is reluctant to use Slate Seal again as it has proved difficult to maintain. What are YOUR thoughts on a good sealer for Sandstone? I was thinking of using LTP Ironwax gloss. There has to be something that will enhance the colour AND be easier to clean and maintain than Slate Seal.
What do you have Kevin?
I rest my case Mr 27 Years Experience
Now leave me in peace please and work towards your 28th year. I am sure in a few months you will know all there is to know about SAMICH (KLINDEX) products as well ;D ;D ;D ::)roll
;D
Phew! That must have taken you some time to do! Is that the best you can do?
Tell me, what is it Kevin that rattles your cage when someone has an opinion?
What do you get out of being angry all the time?
Yes, I came on your course because, as I have said MANY times before, I was robbed with some iffy gear by a mush from Shepards Bush!
Let me try and help you out with your childish game....
May 2012
See above
June 2012
Fireplace...Not Stone...and YOUR point is?
July 2012
I need a new wet vac and I was asking for recommendations.
Ahh, I get it, I didn't ask YOUR opinion, I asked everyone else. Naughty Rob!
July 2012
Info needed regarding the crap machine I bought from that Mush I mentioned earlier.
July 2012
As I have mentioned before, your arrogance kills me, so I went direct to Italy to see the makers of Klindex SAMICH. Yes Kevin, SAMICH make Klindex!!
All your other clips seem pointless, however, you have missed the more relevant points where I point out that your Aqua Mix Sealing and Coating remover does not work. It is complete rubbish.
Anyway, you promised never to talk to me again...I am irresistible to you aren't I :-*
And please do try and answer MY questions, al least I reply to yours, are can't you?
I still say that your course is good, IF you can put up with the arrogance and irritating Kevin Martin. (Other courses are available and as you are never too old to learn, I will also be attending more, even though I have the experience...perhaps more than the arrogant man himself!)
Don't bother me anymore Kevin, I have neither the time or patience for you. Why people buy from you is beyond me. ???