Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: a900 on February 01, 2014, 02:45:46 pm
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Hi guys
I recently bit the bullet and upgraded my 450gpd to a 4040. Starting to wonder if I was better off with what I had. :-[ This is getting expensive inc time and still not happy with output tds.
Im getting a TDS of 34 off my tap pressure (45PSI) and cant get much better than 29 with the pump on 80 - 100psi depending on waste ratio. My input is 320.
Weird thing is the membrane has been back in the housing to the supplier for testing and they got down to 13 with tap pressure of 55psi and similar input tds.
SO what am I doing wrong? I have noticed that the prefilters were bubbling air out the outlet but no leaks ??? and they were when they were bubbling flowing a lot slower than the tap??? they don't seem to be bubbling now.
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when you play with the waste pipe,are you letting it run for a time before you do a new tds reading ?
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I get Zero TDS from 130 tap and 75 psi mains. The prefilters do not make much if any difference to the TDS. If you read the info on the Gaps website it gives you an idea on how to set your RO's sweetspot.
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I set all my 4040ro up three weeks ago it's coming from membrane at 008tds it's already coming out of resin at 003 is this normal after three weeks it's only running for around seven hours in total a day
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I set all my 4040ro up three weeks ago it's coming from membrane at 008tds it's already coming out of resin at 003 is this normal after three weeks it's only running for around seven hours in total a day
How big is your D.I?if your R.O product is 8ppm, your post resin tds should stay at 0 for a while with a decent sizes D.I
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11ltrs
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11ltrs
Should last longer than 3weeks, how much water do you produce a week?
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About 1500 a day five days a week
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About 1500 a day five days a week
Your resin would last 4 weeks or less.
Double DI will help
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Thinking off changing vessel for two twenty inch ones I think they will last twice as long as one 11 ltr one
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Double di will more cost effective.
we use a 100L DI's and change the resin every 2 years or so ;D
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I've been toying with different waste ratios And leaving time between testing the tds. No luck still around 30.
Odd that it went back to supplier and they got better tds from this membrane.
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Yes it should be run for 10 to 20 mins before taking this reading and it will settle but having said that I've been getting 30 Tds from 350 as well, love to no how people get 10 and below.
What system is it?
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I set all my 4040ro up three weeks ago it's coming from membrane at 008tds it's already coming out of resin at 003 is this normal after three weeks it's only running for around seven hours in total a day
god that's impossible ain't it lol
U may find its 3 after you just done a tap reading throw that away and do it again and it will be zero guaranteed.
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Will try that avo cheers bud
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About 1500 a day five days a week
7,500 litres of pure a week? For one van?
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Who mentioned one van ?
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Who mentioned one van ?
Perhaps my mistake.
I assumed one van as it seemed like a newb question.
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Been using pole system 14 years now
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Hi guys
I recently bit the bullet and upgraded my 450gpd to a 4040. Starting to wonder if I was better off with what I had. :-[ This is getting expensive inc time and still not happy with output tds.
Im getting a TDS of 34 off my tap pressure (45PSI) and cant get much better than 29 with the pump on 80 - 100psi depending on waste ratio. My input is 320.
Weird thing is the membrane has been back in the housing to the supplier for testing and they got down to 13 with tap pressure of 55psi and similar input tds.
SO what am I doing wrong? I have noticed that the prefilters were bubbling air out the outlet but no leaks ??? and they were when they were bubbling flowing a lot slower than the tap??? they don't seem to be bubbling now.
Mine at 70psi gives 6 from 330 with an HF4 membrane (better than HF5 at higher pressures). When I didnt have a booster pump mine was outputting in the mid 20s like yours.
I think its the pressure. If youre measuring it before bubbling prefilters youre probably getting a false reading. If after then I dont know.
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I'm measuring my pressure after the prefilters and just before input to membrane housing. My Pump gives good pressure but it's not translating to good tds. Hmm I'm using a hf5 membrane. Would be happy with 15. Would half my resin use.
I'm wondering if the prefilters are somehow restricting the water flow to the membrane. The other day I connected the pre filters only to the tap and they took much longer than the tap only to fill a bucket. I mean double the time.
Altho when everything was plumbed back up I'm still getting good system pressure with the pump on?
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OK, measuring at the important point - thats good. How old are the prefilters? Are they bunged up? Try swapping them or reseating them. With a pump you should be getting much better flow through. Much better.
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The filters are new. About a week or 2 old. As is the membrane.
They have been out and checked that they look right and sealed right. They look fine.
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WHERE DID YOU GET THE MEMBRAINE FROM
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Do you have the booster after the filters? Ours is before on the basis that I want the water to get through the filters at the maximum rate.
I am running out of ideas, tbh.
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Yesterday I moved it from before the membrane and after the pre filters to before everything in an effort to make a difference.
On flush how much slower does your water come out compared to the tap? Wondering if I've got a flow restriction somewhere and I'm still getting pressure but not the flow required
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On flush with the booster its just over double the flow of the tap without the booster pump.
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Yes it should be run for 10 to 20 mins before taking this reading and it will settle but having said that I've been getting 30 Tds from 350 as well, love to no how people get 10 and below.
What system is it?
Is this on 100% waste for 10-20mins prior to every fill up/top up? I flush my ro for probably less than that today, maybe 5 minutes, and only when I started to close the waste to run it back through the ro did it gradually start to decrease (starting at 255), rather than the immediate decrease I was expecting (should be at around 19 going into my di).
So do I flush it for much longer than I have been? Otherwise I'm sitting with measuring jugs and a TDS meter waiting for the level to drop before I can plug it back into the DI! Too fiddly and cumbersome.
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Quite a bit of bad advice is given on here about flushing. Flushing will not affect your TDS - it will affect your throughput. Not my words, those of June at Gaps.
I flush monthly for 20 minutes and suffer no problems at all (about 12,000 litres of pure output at that point). Throughput is the same as when new (12 months) and output TDS is exactly the same as two days after I put in the membrane. I think I am helped by the fact that I use a DI vessel of charcoal as a pre filter. Nothing at all gets through.
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What do you mean do vessel full off charcoal can you explain more please
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DI vessel (the one you would normally use for resin, I mean) 2/3 full of acid washed charcoal (Gaps sell it). I also have a particle filter after it as a tiny bit of charcoal can pass out even though its acid washed. The vessel is a 36 inch one and it has lasted a year - I will be filling it shortly.
The charcoal is £90 a sack but I will get about 2 years out of it. About 144,000 litres of pure, so about 720,000 litres filtered for £90. Worth it to keep the membrane in great condition.
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@ Dave Mills
Have I got this right > you don't use pre filters only the charcoal and particle filter
before membrane ?
I ask as im going to upgrade hopefully this year.
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Ive got the similar to you Dave.
Ionic do a charcoal filter, sealed unit, same size as their RO unit think its about £90. Says to change after 500,000 litres.
All I've got is the charcoal, then a polyphosphate filter (Dual Pumps, Melton Mowbray, £15 each) then RO then resin.
Works a treat. Change the polyphosphate quarterly.
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Quite a bit of bad advice is given on here about flushing. Flushing will not affect your TDS - it will affect your throughput. Not my words, those of June at Gaps.
I flush monthly for 20 minutes and suffer no problems at all (about 12,000 litres of pure output at that point). Throughput is the same as when new (12 months) and output TDS is exactly the same as two days after I put in the membrane. I think I am helped by the fact that I use a DI vessel of charcoal as a pre filter. Nothing at all gets through.
i must say June knows her stuff she helped me out a few times when having problems with ro's...
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@ Dave Mills
Have I got this right > you don't use pre filters only the charcoal and particle filter
before membrane ?
I ask as im going to upgrade hopefully this year.
Yes. From booster pump, into one of these - http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/SPECTRUM-composite-vessel-complete-with-head--riser-and-screens--8--diameter-3496.html
2/3 filled with - http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Activated-carbon--acid-washed---25-kg-2193.html - Do not overfill!
Output into one of these - http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/No.20-2G-Standard-Industrial-plastic-filter-housing--20---3-4--BSP-ports-2901.html with a 20" particle filter
Then into 4040 membrane.
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Thanks for the links. I have a spare Di unit so could I use this for the washed charcoal?
Also is there such a thing as 10inch particle filter?(is it the same as the ones I use now) as I could use my present ro unit for this then all I would need to get is the 4040 membrane and housing.
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Thanks for the links. I have a spare Di unit so could I use this for the washed charcoal?
Also is there such a thing as 10inch particle filter?(is it the same as the ones I use now) as I could use my present ro unit for this then all I would need to get is the 4040 membrane and housing.
Yes, and yes.
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/GE-purtrex-filter-cartridge-2877.html
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Thanks
Last Q.
Where is the cheapest place for the housing ? and will my present ro unit booster pump work for this new set up?
Ok 2 Questions ;D
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Dave how big is the bag off washed carbon
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I had this same issue. Try backflushing the system for 5 or 10 minutes before and after use then check after letting it run through for a few more. I was getting 30 or 40 from a tap output of 200. Now I get about 5. 0 after it goes through the di ;D also check your tds meter hasnt got a bit off dirt on it that you havnt seen.
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Thanks
Last Q.
Where is the cheapest place for the housing ? and will my present ro unit booster pump work for this new set up?
Ok 2 Questions ;D
Dont know about cheapest. I dont buy on price alone. I get advice from Gaps so I buy from them. Possibly cheaper places but people dont use me because Im cheap, so I use the best suppliers I can find.
I dont think that this would affect your booster but I do not know for sure. Sorry.
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Dave how big is the bag off washed carbon
25Kg.
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thanks for the help Dave
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Dave what size vessel do you use for carbon and what size for resin cheers kev
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All 8 x 35. I dont like changing resin or charcoal.
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Hi guys
I recently bit the bullet and upgraded my 450gpd to a 4040. Starting to wonder if I was better off with what I had. Embarrassed This is getting expensive inc time and still not happy with output tds.
Im getting a TDS of 34 off my tap pressure (45PSI) and cant get much better than 29 with the pump on 80 - 100psi depending on waste ratio. My input is 320.
Weird thing is the membrane has been back in the housing to the supplier for testing and they got down to 13 with tap pressure of 55psi and similar input tds.
SO what am I doing wrong? I have noticed that the prefilters were bubbling air out the outlet but no leaks Huh and they were when they were bubbling flowing a lot slower than the tap??? they don't seem to be bubbling now.
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I would check your water flow from the tap not the pressure the water flow its different, a membrane needs quite a lot of water to work efficiently and when you use a booster pump and increase the pressure this actually reduces water flow.. but increases pressure.
You may have good water pressure but poor water flow from the tap (not enough) if so.. there lies your problem.
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All 8 x 35. I dont like changing resin or charcoal.
sorry dave I dont understand these sizes
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http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/SPECTRUM-composite-vessel-complete-with-head--riser-and-screens--8--diameter-3496.html
8 inch diameter. 35 inches tall.
8 x 35. Very big, possibly too big but hardly ever need changing.
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Wow thats big