Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pure Shine on January 16, 2014, 03:54:24 pm

Title: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Pure Shine on January 16, 2014, 03:54:24 pm
Hi guys whats the going rate for window cleaning staff please .no licence so needs collecting but is experienced
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on January 16, 2014, 03:56:28 pm
I pay my non driver £7.00 per hour
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Pure Shine on January 16, 2014, 04:06:23 pm
Cheers james I was thinking about that but wasnt sure .
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: roundbuilder on January 16, 2014, 04:51:55 pm
Between £7-10ph depending how good and how quick they are.
If they are worth there weight in gold also add a bonus on completed monthly work by them hitting targets.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 16, 2014, 05:22:00 pm
I pay Darren £10 an hour. He's getting a 10% pay rise come April.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: hasti on January 16, 2014, 07:15:33 pm
I pay Darren £10 an hour. He's getting a 10% pay rise come April.

Hi matt
Does darren work with you, or you send him on his own on a separate van ?
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 16, 2014, 07:16:46 pm
He works with me.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: hasti on January 16, 2014, 07:18:18 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: robertphil on January 16, 2014, 07:18:48 pm
7 pound per hour 
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Soupy on January 16, 2014, 07:25:27 pm
I thought 2014 was gonna bring cheap labour from Romania. Looks like the daily mail lied to us.

No luck eh?
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: alfie11 on January 16, 2014, 07:28:11 pm
£7 per hr is ok for a young lad but for a man with a family, 8hr day is only £56   I think is poor and they would still have to claim benefits which would defeat the point of working. paying the living wage + some sort of bonus should be the starting point and no crappy zero hr contracts
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: hasti on January 16, 2014, 07:57:44 pm
£7 per hr is ok for a young lad but for a man with a family, 8hr day is only £56   I think is poor and they would still have to claim benefits which would defeat the point of working. paying the living wage + some sort of bonus should be the starting point and no crappy zero hr contracts

That makes it £280 per week and £14,500 per year, its not a bad wage for window cleaning staff, is it?
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 08:47:39 pm
we have a pay scale...

min wage plus attendance bonus of £125/month for being on time and in work every day to start

min wage plus attendance bonus plus £100 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 3

min wage plus attendance bonus of £150 plus £150 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 6

they get bonuses for signing up new clients or getting jobs in for us

they are also paid to complete their work list and then they can leave.  so paid for 8 hr days, but regularly leave at 7 hrs (so in effect it's not min wage)

Pay scale is good because it gives them a feeling of progression and achievement as their value to me improve.  also, it encourages them to want to upskill fast, and makes them want to have their review at month 3 and month 6.

attendance bonus is great because they hate loosing it, especially toward the end of the month

bonuses are great because you can withdraw them at any point you wish, so if they leave without notice you can not pay their bonus, if they do misconduct you can not pay it, whatever, so it gives you some leverage against them.

Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: martin hulstone on January 16, 2014, 08:57:41 pm
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 09:14:20 pm
He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage.

I pay on performance not related to their age  ;)
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on January 16, 2014, 09:15:07 pm
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 16, 2014, 09:15:36 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?

He pays his own tax.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 16, 2014, 09:20:40 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?

He pays his own tax.

Is that legal?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/getting-started/paye-basics.htm#1
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: mop-n-scrim on January 16, 2014, 09:24:29 pm
Driver £11.15ph works on his own.
New starter who can drive £7.05 going up too £8.50, until they can work on their own (then £11.15ph).
Youngsters out of school minimum wage until they can prove their worth.

Ps:thats employed.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 09:31:08 pm
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...

that's between me and the taxman.

not that much at all though TBH.

my business isnt very profitable at the moment as it is carrying a lot of debt after a fire we had in first 6 months  :P [on top of bank loan to setup]

in3 years tho...  i will be finally making a decent living.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: hasti on January 16, 2014, 09:33:01 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?

He pays his own tax.


So in a way he is a subcontractor  ;)
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 09:34:31 pm
we have a pay scale...

min wage plus attendance bonus of £125/month for being on time and in work every day to start

min wage plus attendance bonus plus £100 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 3

min wage plus attendance bonus of £150 plus £150 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 6

they get bonuses for signing up new clients or getting jobs in for us

they are also paid to complete their work list and then they can leave.  so paid for 8 hr days, but regularly leave at 7 hrs (so in effect it's not min wage)

Pay scale is good because it gives them a feeling of progression and achievement as their value to me improve.  also, it encourages them to want to upskill fast, and makes them want to have their review at month 3 and month 6.

attendance bonus is great because they hate loosing it, especially toward the end of the month

bonuses are great because you can withdraw them at any point you wish, so if they leave without notice you can not pay their bonus, if they do misconduct you can not pay it, whatever, so it gives you some leverage against them.



my guys are all employed by me so that's a pretty good wage i reckon.  works out about £9/hr before they sign up anyone or get me new business
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: hasti on January 16, 2014, 09:36:31 pm
we have a pay scale...

min wage plus attendance bonus of £125/month for being on time and in work every day to start

min wage plus attendance bonus plus £100 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 3

min wage plus attendance bonus of £150 plus £150 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 6

they get bonuses for signing up new clients or getting jobs in for us

they are also paid to complete their work list and then they can leave.  so paid for 8 hr days, but regularly leave at 7 hrs (so in effect it's not min wage)

Pay scale is good because it gives them a feeling of progression and achievement as their value to me improve.  also, it encourages them to want to upskill fast, and makes them want to have their review at month 3 and month 6.

attendance bonus is great because they hate loosing it, especially toward the end of the month

bonuses are great because you can withdraw them at any point you wish, so if they leave without notice you can not pay their bonus, if they do misconduct you can not pay it, whatever, so it gives you some leverage against them.



my guys are all employed by me so that's a pretty good wage i reckon.  works out about £9/hr before they sign up anyone or get me new business

Too much paper work i would say and a bit of headache  :)
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 09:42:08 pm
we have a pay scale...

min wage plus attendance bonus of £125/month for being on time and in work every day to start

min wage plus attendance bonus plus £100 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 3

min wage plus attendance bonus of £150 plus £150 bonus for hitting targets expected @ month 6

they get bonuses for signing up new clients or getting jobs in for us

they are also paid to complete their work list and then they can leave.  so paid for 8 hr days, but regularly leave at 7 hrs (so in effect it's not min wage)

Pay scale is good because it gives them a feeling of progression and achievement as their value to me improve.  also, it encourages them to want to upskill fast, and makes them want to have their review at month 3 and month 6.

attendance bonus is great because they hate loosing it, especially toward the end of the month

bonuses are great because you can withdraw them at any point you wish, so if they leave without notice you can not pay their bonus, if they do misconduct you can not pay it, whatever, so it gives you some leverage against them.



my guys are all employed by me so that's a pretty good wage i reckon.  works out about £9/hr before they sign up anyone or get me new business

Too much paper work i would say and a bit of headache  :)

probably illegal not to tho
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 16, 2014, 09:52:52 pm
probably illegal not to tho

And possibly very expensive.  I clean a pub where the landlord paid cash in hand to an employee.  The employee was investigated and it all came out and the landlord was himself tax investigated (which opened a whole new can of worms) and not only that, the landlord had to pay the tax his employee should have paid.

It really messed with his head for some time.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 16, 2014, 09:54:58 pm
probably illegal not to tho

And possibly very expensive.  I clean a pub where the landlord paid cash in hand to an employee.  The employee was investigated and it all came out and the landlord was himself tax investigated (which opened a whole new can of worms) and not only that, the landlord had to pay the tax his employee should have paid.

It really messed with his head for some time.

Ouch!  :o
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 16, 2014, 11:15:00 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?

He pays his own tax.

Is that legal?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/getting-started/paye-basics.htm#1

Yes, it's how the govt collects any taxes due from self-employed individuals.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 16, 2014, 11:37:24 pm
He works with me.

Thats well paid, so £10/h b4 tax & n/i ?

He pays his own tax.

Is that legal?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/getting-started/paye-basics.htm#1

Yes, it's how the govt collects any taxes due from self-employed individuals.

If they are self employed, which if Darren is, that's fair enough.  If there's any grey area it could prove costly should something happen.

Status of Employment

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/#1
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 16, 2014, 11:40:01 pm
Yes, it's how the govt collects any taxes due from self-employed individuals.

Also, read the post heading 'How to pay staff'.  Staff aren't usually self employed.  sub contractors are self employed, and the set up is totally different from being employed.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 17, 2014, 12:19:52 am
There's a tool on the HMRC website that can help to define if an individual is self employed or not.

When Darren started working for me he was self employed, he had his own work, regular customers. He still sevices this work in his own time during the week. I do not supply him with all his work. He takes time off whenever he wants, at the drop of a hat, with no notice.  He does not get paid sick nor holiday. He rents all tools required to be able to carry out his work at his expense. Any complaints, he rectifies this in his own time.


My accountant has said a signed invoice from Darren is adequate. It is simply a business expense. I have also spoken to HMRC about it. They have said so long as he invoices me then it's a business expense and his tax is his responsibility.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 17, 2014, 12:24:28 am
You pay him an hourly rate, he doesn't risk his own money; and probably some other indicators that he's employed by you too, but it's okay, Matt, you don't have to justify anything to me.  

Attitude is also taken into consideration and you've posted how much you pay your contractor in a post that asks what the rate is for paying staff.

But read the link; it's the courts that decide this stuff should something happen; like he gets audited by the tax man or has an accident and goes to a no-win no-fee scumbag.


Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: LT carpet cleaning on January 17, 2014, 03:02:56 am
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...

Certainly far more than you pay your slave that's for sure.  ::)roll
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on January 17, 2014, 06:55:55 am
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...


Certainly far more than you pay your slave that's for sure.  ::)roll


^^Who put 20p in this clown?^^



Paying my non driver £7 an hour is hardly slave labour is it.  ::)roll

There are loads of companys on this forum, in my area, and in the UK that pay £7 per hour.







Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 17, 2014, 09:17:49 am
You have a valid point IMO. In a similar light so does my accountant and the advisor I spoke to at HMRC.

I would have always liked to have employed Darren on the cards, that way there can be no room for error or mis-interpretation. Im likely to give it some more thought as to whether I need to employ him that way or continue as we are.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: martin hulstone on January 20, 2014, 04:21:41 pm
I earn enough to pay those wages, im sure most people on here with a decent round can do the same, just depends how much profit you want for yourself!
Im also lucky that I live in dorset where window cleaning prices are quite high.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: PoleKing on January 20, 2014, 05:19:57 pm
You have a valid point IMO. In a similar light so does my accountant and the advisor I spoke to at HMRC.

I would have always liked to have employed Darren on the cards, that way there can be no room for error or mis-interpretation. Im likely to give it some more thought as to whether I need to employ him that way or continue as we are.

I had 18 months of doing what you're doing bud (I was the 'employee') 2 different sets of accountants were aware, as was HMRC.
The kicker, we were told, was that I HAD to have work of my own.
The hourly paid bit isn't important.
That was my experience.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 20, 2014, 05:22:57 pm
He does have work of his own.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: PoleKing on January 20, 2014, 05:30:41 pm
Sorry, should've said, I realised you'd said he's got his own.
That's what I meant that you were doing the same as my old gaffer.
From what we found out, and he dug pretty deep, what you're doing is absolutely fine.
Unless the rules have changed.
Which I can't see why they would.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Dean Taberner on January 20, 2014, 07:49:38 pm
Off subject,

Tosh, I'm in your club again, January with no booze for cancer research, not raised a penny yet but feeling great and dropped a stone in weight in 20 days, in fact I feel that good I can see a dry february on the cards.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Dean Taberner on January 20, 2014, 07:52:07 pm
As for paying staff,

Window cleaning as an employed window cleaner is a dead end job, anybody who even considers it deserves to be sectioned under the mental health act. I'd prefer to stack shelves in Lidl than clean windows, especially for the minimum wage.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Tom White on January 20, 2014, 08:21:05 pm
Off subject,

Tosh, I'm in your club again, January with no booze for cancer research, not raised a penny yet but feeling great and dropped a stone in weight in 20 days, in fact I feel that good I can see a dry february on the cards.

I seem to remember you planned to have a dry February last year too, yet cracked on the 1st Feb.   ;D
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 21, 2014, 08:37:03 am
As for paying staff,

Window cleaning as an employed window cleaner is a dead end job, anybody who even considers it deserves to be sectioned under the mental health act. I'd prefer to stack shelves in Lidl than clean windows, especially for the minimum wage.

that's not true tho is it!

there are many companies doing window cleaning and some of them are nationals where there is potential for developing a career in the organisation.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: gary999 on January 21, 2014, 10:15:38 am
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...


Certainly far more than you pay your slave that's for sure.  ::)roll


^^Who put 20p in this clown?^^



Paying my non driver £7 an hour is hardly slave labour is it.  ::)roll

There are loads of companys on this forum, in my area, and in the UK that pay £7 per hour.








£7 is soon to be the new minimum legal hourly wage...so its not exactly
great is it.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: LT carpet cleaning on January 21, 2014, 12:20:32 pm
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...


Certainly far more than you pay your slave that's for sure.  ::)roll


^^Who put 20p in this clown?^^



Paying my non driver £7 an hour is hardly slave labour is it.  ::)roll

There are loads of companys on this forum, in my area, and in the UK that pay £7 per hour.








£7 is soon to be the new minimum legal hourly wage...so its not exactly
great is it.

Nope as I said, slave labour.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 21, 2014, 12:37:58 pm
I pay my employee 12 pounds an hour and he works hard so deserves a good wage. He is 42 so I would not dream of paying minimum wage. He also gets a bonus if we have a good month.


What do you pay yourself then pal?

£15 an hour?

Thats £27 per hour x 8 hours = £216 just in wages.

Add on all your other outgoings.

Now add on the money the business is making in profit.


You must earn a phat amount each day...


Certainly far more than you pay your slave that's for sure.  ::)roll


^^Who put 20p in this clown?^^



Paying my non driver £7 an hour is hardly slave labour is it.  ::)roll

There are loads of companys on this forum, in my area, and in the UK that pay £7 per hour.








£7 is soon to be the new minimum legal hourly wage...so its not exactly
great is it.

£7 an hour is an OK wage.  no problem with that whatsoever.

if you want to pay your staff more than that's all well and good.

it clearly isnt 'slave labour' it is quite the opposite in fact.  a slave doesn't have a choice in where they work.  our staff choose to work for us out of their own free will.  if they didn't think the wage was good enough they would not take the job, or they would leave it.  simple
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Dean Taberner on January 21, 2014, 04:47:24 pm
As for paying staff,

Window cleaning as an employed window cleaner is a dead end job, anybody who even considers it deserves to be sectioned under the mental health act. I'd prefer to stack shelves in Lidl than clean windows, especially for the minimum wage.

that's not true tho is it!

there are many companies doing window cleaning and some of them are nationals where there is potential for developing a career in the organisation.

I agree that there are exceptions Rich but as a rule of thumb what I said is true.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: martin hulstone on January 22, 2014, 01:54:21 pm
No its not slave wages, like i said i pay 12 pounds an hour plus a bonus sometimes. My employee loves his job, will work any hours and is training to be a chartered accountant. Like any job you pay poop wages you get poop staff!
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: SeanK on January 22, 2014, 07:33:21 pm
How can £7 an hour be an OK wage ?
The UK living wage is £7.65 and the living wage for London is £8.80.
£7 an hour is a wage but its far from OK.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Soupy on January 23, 2014, 01:05:06 pm
As for paying staff,

Window cleaning as an employed window cleaner for Dean Taberner is a dead end job.

FTFY

Don't tar everyone with your brush.
Title: Re: whats the going rate to pay staff
Post by: Dean Taberner on January 23, 2014, 04:49:13 pm
As for paying staff,

Window cleaning as an employed window cleaner for Dean Taberner is a dead end job.

FTFY

Don't tar everyone with your brush.

Thanks for that,

Yes you're right, I'd never work for myself, not as long as I've got a hole in my backside.