Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on December 31, 2013, 11:09:16 am

Title: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Dave Willis on December 31, 2013, 11:09:16 am
Just a thought. You said you have a batch coming in soon and you will be selling them.

I just wondered ............. how can you make any money if we've all been given the links to buy direct from China?
Whatever price you sell them for we can buy them cheaper direct from the supplier. Surely your business plan has a teeny weeny flaw?

Surely you've also pretty much wrecked Aqudapters sales too?

Gardiners probably not so because they appear to have their poles specifically built to their requirements but any other importer won't be too impressed.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 31, 2013, 11:13:30 am
Bearing in mind poles from china don't come with hoses or brushes.

Someone could probably make a little profit By buying poles in bulk, brushes and hose in bulk, then assembling them together and selling as one.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Dave Willis on December 31, 2013, 11:18:35 am
Yes but the biggest saving is on the poles - only we can buy them direct - the exact same poles. Get our spares in five days and talk to an english speaking guy in China - Why would anyone use Windywasher?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 31, 2013, 11:21:55 am
Mayb less hassle?

Not sure, I don't even know if you bought in big quantity that you could get them even cheaper?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Michael Peterson on December 31, 2013, 11:39:34 am
It all depends on the size of the order I think
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 31, 2013, 11:57:28 am
I'd like to see him on Dragon's Den!! :-[ ;D ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Clever Forum Name on December 31, 2013, 12:12:06 pm
It will be joe blogs on eBay who will buy em.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 12:26:15 pm
Just a thought. You said you have a batch coming in soon and you will be selling them.

I just wondered ............. how can you make any money if we've all been given the links to buy direct from China?
Whatever price you sell them for we can buy them cheaper direct from the supplier. Surely your business plan has a teeny weeny flaw?

Surely you've also pretty much wrecked Aqudapters sales too?

Gardiners probably not so because they appear to have their poles specifically built to their requirements but any other importer won't be too impressed.
if thats a case how does the other suppliers carry on then?
They all come from China.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 12:28:09 pm
I'd like to see him on Dragon's Den!! :-[ ;D ;D
why buy a pole from anybody in the uk as they are all from China.
Nobody makes them here and the clamps are designed and manufactured in china too.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Alex Gardiner on December 31, 2013, 12:46:03 pm
I'd like to see him on Dragon's Den!! :-[ ;D ;D
why buy a pole from anybody in the uk as they are all from China.
Nobody makes them here and the clamps are designed and manufactured in china too.

Just to be accurate (for those who are interested) not all poles/clamps are designed and made in China.

Our website clearly states - http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/The-New-SLXII-NEWPOLES.html that the Gardiner clamps are "UK Designed & Manufactured for high quality and reliable construction".

Also our completed pole assemblies are 100% UK designed and currently have components from 6 different countries, 12 different factories and are all hand assembled in the UK.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: deeege on December 31, 2013, 01:02:35 pm
I havnt been following the recent 'polegate' scandal very closely, have been far too busy spending time with my family over the festive period, but:-

Does anybody seriously think the WW is going to successfully set up a pole supply chain from china? Of course he isn't. Just like he didn't get the window cleaning app to market that was 'almost complete' for week after week.

With due respect to WW but who on earth is going to buy a £300 / £400 (?) pole from somebody when 1) they will be buying an untested product 2) there is no guarantee of continuity of supply 3) the savings will likely be marginal and 4) the unethical way that 'competitors' have been slated.

I am by no means a Gardiners fanboy, I'd happily buy quality, value for money products from any supplier who offers all of the above, I just don't see it being offered by WW anytime soon.

If I wanted to take a punt on saving a few quid I'd just buy a pole direct from china like Kempy did and save myself paying WW his commission in the process.

Happy new year to all!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 01:08:30 pm
I havnt been following the recent 'polegate' scandal very closely, have been far too busy spending time with my family over the festive period, but:-

Does anybody seriously think the WW is going to successfully set up a pole supply chain from china? Of course he isn't. Just like he didn't get the window cleaning app to market that was 'almost complete' for week after week.

With due respect to WW but who on earth is going to buy a £300 / £400 (?) pole from somebody when 1) they will be buying an untested product 2) there is no guarantee of continuity of supply 3) the savings will likely be marginal and 4) the unethical way that 'competitors' have been slated.

I am by no means a Gardiners fanboy, I'd happily buy quality, value for money products from any supplier who offers all of the above, I just don't see it being offered by WW anytime soon.

If I wanted to take a punt on saving a few quid I'd just buy a pole direct from china like Kempy did and save myself paying WW his commission in the process.

Happy new year to all!
Ive not seen other suppliers slated.All I said was it can be all bought from China.
Right I have had enough of all this as its getting so boring with everyone getting there knickers in a twist.
Happy new year everyone.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on December 31, 2013, 01:22:13 pm
How did you know I was wearing knickers!!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 01:26:04 pm
How did you know I was wearing knickers!!
lol
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Dave Willis on December 31, 2013, 01:38:24 pm
I've never been a retailer but even with my small brain there's a few things I'd have to get right first.

1. I'd need to source my product at the cheapest price possible (and protect the details of where I got them).
2. I'd need to factor in the postage costs including taxes/import duty
3. spares availability and warranty
4. lead time and storage facilities
5. Staff? outgoing postage
6. Income tax/vat
7. profit margin
8. competition

To sell it  it would need to be different/better than the competition to ask decent prices or cheaper than the equivalent which means selling in bulk.


To be honest, just cleaning windows has a lot of appeal for me ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 31, 2013, 01:39:08 pm
So, we can definitely assert that all poles DO NOT come from China then. ;)

deeege- we know that, that's the joke! ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Nathanael Jones on December 31, 2013, 01:50:45 pm
I've never been a retailer but even with my small brain there's a few things I'd have to get right first.

1. I'd need to source my product at the cheapest price possible (and protect the details of where I got them).
2. I'd need to factor in the postage costs including taxes/import duty
3. spares availability and warranty
4. lead time and storage facilities
5. Staff? outgoing postage
6. Income tax/vat
7. profit margin
8. competition

To sell it  it would need to be different/better than the competition to ask decent prices or cheaper than the equivalent which means selling in bulk.


To be honest, just cleaning windows has a lot of appeal for me ;D

+1

There is also a HUGE hurdle with minimum order quantities from overseas suppliers, so you have to spend a small fortune on stock which you need to sell fast enough to maintain cashflow, pay your wage, cover warranty issues AND invest in future stock. I personally cannot see it being successful with an investment below 100K - even then there's no guarantees!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 31, 2013, 01:58:48 pm
Just a thought- you aren't WindowWashers are you??  :-X

this time next year Rodney.................................. ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: tlwcs on December 31, 2013, 02:04:32 pm
I've never been a retailer but even with my small brain there's a few things I'd have to get right first.

1. I'd need to source my product at the cheapest price possible (and protect the details of where I got them).
2. I'd need to factor in the postage costs including taxes/import duty
3. spares availability and warranty
4. lead time and storage facilities
5. Staff? outgoing postage
6. Income tax/vat
7. profit margin
8. competition

To sell it  it would need to be different/better than the competition to ask decent prices or cheaper than the equivalent which means selling in bulk.


To be honest, just cleaning windows has a lot of appeal for me ;D

+1

There is also a HUGE hurdle with minimum order quantities from overseas suppliers, so you have to spend a small fortune on stock which you need to sell fast enough to maintain cashflow, pay your wage, cover warranty issues AND invest in future stock. I personally cannot see it being successful with an investment below 100K - even then there's no guarantees!

+2
Thats why the fog wash is no longer available due to the volume he was required to buy
Tony
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Mitchellmoxo on December 31, 2013, 02:15:44 pm
I would probs buy from windywasher if the price was right.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: oldman on December 31, 2013, 02:39:09 pm
I would probs buy from windywasher if the price was right.

Why would you do that.
You could buy them yourself direct from China for less than he would be selling for.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on December 31, 2013, 02:42:00 pm
I've been thinking about the market potential for Windies poles.

I've looked at cj.eddie's ebay profile, the ebay supplier who has some 45 and 50' poles for sale. He has had them on the system for a few weeks and his only feedback as a supplier is in Feb 2013, and it wasn't for selling poles.

This maybe an incorrect assumption, but it doesn't look like this Rochford supplier's stock is exactly flying off the shelves to me.

I have also been looking at the spring clamp on his poles. The spring is between the jaws of the clamp, so I can't see how that would help once the pole began to wear. The Gardiner Smart clamp spring is outside the jaws on one side which does work.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 03:21:47 pm
These are my clamps.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: [GQC] Tim on December 31, 2013, 03:45:18 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle, even though the smart clamps do somewhat differ.  Need to go to my van now and actually check.  :P

Any comments Alex?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wfp master on December 31, 2013, 04:03:43 pm
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1388505794_images (2).jpg)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on December 31, 2013, 04:07:55 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle, even though the smart clamps do somewhat differ.  Need to go to my van now and actually check.  :P

Any comments Alex?

Alex commented on another forum that they worked differently. Personally, I can't see them working as the spring would be 'forcing' the jaws open rather than clamping down on the worn section.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: gary999 on December 31, 2013, 04:09:13 pm
I've never been a retailer but even with my small brain there's a few things I'd have to get right first.

1. I'd need to source my product at the cheapest price possible (and protect the details of where I got them).
2. I'd need to factor in the postage costs including taxes/import duty
3. spares availability and warranty
4. lead time and storage facilities
5. Staff? outgoing postage
6. Income tax/vat
7. profit margin
8. competition

To sell it  it would need to be different/better than the competition to ask decent prices or cheaper than the equivalent which means selling in bulk.


To be honest, just cleaning windows has a lot of appeal for me ;D

your best post for a while :)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Alex Gardiner on December 31, 2013, 04:14:49 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle.

Any comments Alex?

It doesn't take a genius to see where the design principle for these clamps has come from  ;)

These are the same clamps as Aquadapter's new poles (according to their current detailed photos on their website) and the poles on eBay. We have scheduled in the new year to sit down and have a session with our Patent Attorney and these clamps.

However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case  :)

Of course I will know better once my advisers have studied them in detail.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 04:23:34 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle.

Any comments Alex?

It doesn't take a genius to see where the design principle for these clamps has come from  ;)

These are the same clamps as Aquadapter's new poles and the poles on eBay. We have scheduled in the new year to sit down and have a session with our Patent Attorney and these clamps.

However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case  :)

Of course I will know better once my advisers have studied them in detail.

hi Alex can you let me know the outcome please,I wouldn't sell them of it breaks your patent.
They were the ones the supplier uses but if it breaks your patent I will tell them im not able to use them.
thanks
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Alex Gardiner on December 31, 2013, 04:29:11 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle.

Any comments Alex?

It doesn't take a genius to see where the design principle for these clamps has come from  ;)

These are the same clamps as Aquadapter's new poles and the poles on eBay. We have scheduled in the new year to sit down and have a session with our Patent Attorney and these clamps.

However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case  :)

Of course I will know better once my advisers have studied them in detail.

hi Alex can you let me know the outcome please,I wouldn't sell them of it breaks your patent.
They were the ones the supplier uses but if it breaks your patent I will tell them im not able to use them.
thanks

Hi WW

I have just got your email on the subject and have replied.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 04:34:13 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle.

Any comments Alex?

It doesn't take a genius to see where the design principle for these clamps has come from  ;)

These are the same clamps as Aquadapter's new poles and the poles on eBay. We have scheduled in the new year to sit down and have a session with our Patent Attorney and these clamps.

However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case  :)

Of course I will know better once my advisers have studied them in detail.

hi Alex can you let me know the outcome please,I wouldn't sell them of it breaks your patent.
They were the ones the supplier uses but if it breaks your patent I will tell them im not able to use them.
thanks

Hi WW

I have just got your email on the subject and have replied.
Thanks Alex
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: paul13 on December 31, 2013, 06:01:02 pm


hi Alex can you let me know the outcome please,I wouldn't sell them of it breaks your patent.
They were the ones the supplier uses but if it breaks your patent I will tell them im not able to use them.
thanks
[/quote]

Thought you had ordered them ???
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Mitchellmoxo on December 31, 2013, 06:43:35 pm
I would probs buy from windywasher if the price was right.

Why would you do that.
You could buy them yourself direct from China for less than he would be selling for.



Dont understand your argument at all.

Do you buy clothes? If yes.. Why dont you buy them direct from Bangledesh for cheaper?

Large percentage of things we buy are from asia so why dont you buy everything direct from there?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: kempy on December 31, 2013, 07:17:11 pm
I'd say let him have a go , why everyone else worry and ready to knock him all the time . Dave Willis you seem very negative all the time about any post that could offer a alternative to your favourite supplier .
Give him a break , I'm sure he'll do his sums etc .
If he fails , I suppose windiewasher can use a different pole every day of the week.

Obviously I've imported , paid for postage & tax .
I wouldn't like to do it on a large scale , and I wouldn't ever become a supplier .
A advisor was what I tried to do
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Dave Willis on December 31, 2013, 08:32:55 pm
Simply because it struck me that Windy had put himself in exactly the same position as the other pole suppliers. You in particular posted the links to buy cheap poles which means he would be instantly undercut by anyone buying direct.
See what I'm getting at?

I notice he's not gone for the clamps you prefer - I wonder why?

I have nothing against him - I don't know the guy and I wish him all the best.

Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 08:56:18 pm
Dave Willis
you have to buy 100 poles to get a discount from the supplier im getting from so I guarantee you couldnt get it cheaper,also I will pay same postage for as I would for 100.
Am I missing something know it all?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 08:59:19 pm
Simply because it struck me that Windy had put himself in exactly the same position as the other pole suppliers. You in particular posted the links to buy cheap poles which means he would be instantly undercut by anyone buying direct.
See what I'm getting at?

I notice he's not gone for the clamps you prefer - I wonder why?

I have nothing against him - I don't know the guy and I wish him all the best.


wonder why? With the clamps?
Actually they are the standard clamps but seeing what other clamps there is I don't want to break the patent of Alex's.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on December 31, 2013, 10:56:37 pm
Hi guys,
Just to say these poles are not good!
The adjustment on them is useless, the spring is to hard, the locknuts keep spinning when you try to adjust them. They are not a touch compared to Gardiner poles!
I have a new concept, no spring in them has this belongs to Alex.
I will not sell poles at a poor standard, so these poles I would not put my name on.

regards Steven.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: kempy on December 31, 2013, 11:03:19 pm
When's yours doing out Steven -V-Lite ??
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on December 31, 2013, 11:06:58 pm
Hi guys,
Just to say these poles are not good!
The adjustment on them is useless, the spring is to hard, the locknuts keep spinning when you try to adjust them. They are not a touch compared to Gardiner poles!
I have a new concept, no spring in them has this belongs to Alex.
I will not sell poles at a poor standard, so these poles I would not put my name on.

regards Steven.
steven?
you mean the clamps are no good?
how do you know the poles are no good?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on December 31, 2013, 11:17:00 pm
Because i have some of these these poles.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ben M on December 31, 2013, 11:18:15 pm
windie, i think you need to find another supplier in China  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on December 31, 2013, 11:42:25 pm
The stupid spring in the clamp stops them from closing, it is a poor imitation of gardiner pole.
Alex has not got to worry the slightest.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: paul13 on January 01, 2014, 12:35:47 am
Now that's added another three pages :o
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Mitchellmoxo on January 01, 2014, 12:50:27 am
People on the bandwagon gardiners and the like was there first competition is healthy they just need to stay 2 steps ahead!!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: G Griffin on January 01, 2014, 01:01:12 am
I'd like to see him on Dragon's Den!! :-[ ;D ;D

He is.
It's called 'Enter the Dragon's Den'. 
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on January 01, 2014, 01:18:30 am
This is better than any soap I've ever encountered!! ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: gary999 on January 01, 2014, 02:44:44 am
Leave it! ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: andyM on January 01, 2014, 06:31:04 am
Just settling down with my popcorn and cheesy nibbles..............
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Frankybadboy on January 01, 2014, 07:59:08 am
good morning all happy new year ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: oldman on January 01, 2014, 08:34:37 am
And a Happy New Year to you too   :).
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Dave Willis on January 01, 2014, 08:42:19 am
Mornin' everybody, blimey, last year went out with a bang  :o

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Frankybadboy on January 01, 2014, 08:51:10 am
Mornin' everybody, blimey, last year went out with a bang  :o

Happy New Year!
o it did alright  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: alfie11 on January 01, 2014, 11:46:32 am
However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case


^^^^ your gb patent is not for any type clamp design and I can not find  patent designs registered to you for clamps, your pending applications do not cover any type of clamp design, if you do have them please feel free to post patent numbers for clamps... Apologies if I am mistaken
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 11:52:40 am
from there website,all I can find >
UK, US, European & Chinese Utility Patents applied

Chinese Patent Application No: 201310301256.1

US Patent Application No: 13/951, 939

and when trying to use US search I get this >All patent numbers must be seven characters in length, excluding commas, which are optional. Examples:
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Alex Gardiner on January 01, 2014, 11:56:59 am
However from my examination of all examples so far it would appear that they do not have any of the unique operation features of a smart clamp. Saves me the hassle of enforcing the UK and Chinese Patent if this is the case


^^^^ your gb patent is not for any type clamp design and I can not find  patent designs registered to you for clamps, your pending applications do not cover any type of clamp design, if you do have them please feel free to post patent numbers for clamps... Apologies if I am mistaken

Hi Alfie

I do not think that we have spoken before?

Most application numbers are posted on the website (but not all of them  :) ). We do have 4 pending Patents covering the smart clamps with maybe a 5th one on the way to cover another potential feature. We have also taken the step with the Smart Clamps to get a Patent in China as this is where a lot of products are 'cloned'.

It is a shame that businesses have to do this. But due to the fact that a lot of our previous ideas and design features have been 'emulated' in the past - we decided that all future ideas/tools will be as protected as possible to protect the large financial investment that goes into them.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: [GQC] Tim on January 01, 2014, 01:19:43 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle, even though the smart clamps do somewhat differ.  Need to go to my van now and actually check.  :P

Any comments Alex?

Alex commented on another forum that they worked differently. Personally, I can't see them working as the spring would be 'forcing' the jaws open rather than clamping down on the worn section.

It does indeed seem so.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 01, 2014, 01:55:50 pm
Would be interesting to see how this compares to Alex Gardiner's patent on smart clamps. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like a blatant rip-off in design principle, even though the smart clamps do somewhat differ.  Need to go to my van now and actually check.  :P

Any comments Alex?

Alex commented on another forum that they worked differently. Personally, I can't see them working as the spring would be 'forcing' the jaws open rather than clamping down on the worn section.

It does indeed seem so.

Now we know why the Aquadapter V lite poles haven't materialised yet.Stephen doesn't have much good to say about the clamps - and the clamps maketh the pole.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 02:03:12 pm
unless you use your pole clampless  ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 02:20:07 pm
The clamps are useless!

Anyway i am using these poles.

clamps are strong but dont work well.

So i have added a feature to them (the missing feature) and they work very well now.

Removed the spring as this is a no go (not fair on alex) or any of alex features, but added a unique feature and they work very good.

They will be ready very soon, took a bit of head scratching but sorted now.

Steven.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 01, 2014, 02:51:54 pm
The clamps are useless!

Anyway i am using these poles.

clamps are strong but dont work well.

So i have added a feature to them (the missing feature) and they work very well now.

Removed the spring as this is a no go (not fair on alex) or any of alex features, but added a unique feature and they work very good.

They will be ready very soon, took a bit of head scratching but sorted now.

Steven.

Now I am intrigued. It isn’t as though the clamp is a complicated piece of design engineering with numerous application permutations that could be explored. How much brain storming can you do on a clamp design? 
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 03:00:13 pm
The clamp has be around a long time ,its the way the spring is used that's Patented.
Looking at it I can see another way this could be done ,of which would then void Patent issues, unless I patent that myself lol
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 03:03:31 pm
Very true, not going to say much for now until i am ready to sell.

as you realise anyone can import poles in from china, so there is little motivation on my part to sell what is common.

I thought by what i saw that these poles were good, but disappointed when they arrived.

I think thats the problem when you buy overseas (you cant send it back for a tenner) but they dont care as long as they make a quick buck! sell loads to us then "see ya later"

They needed revamping so i have.

Steven.

Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: mufcglen on January 01, 2014, 04:54:19 pm
am i right in thinking instead of the spring being in the middle of the clamp gardiners have them on the outside and if so couldnt people put the spring on the opposite side to theirs and not be breaking a patent?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 04:58:26 pm
No because it is the principle idea what is patented, "self adjusting clamps" alex has patented the idea not the design, so he is covered.

Steve.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on January 01, 2014, 05:00:27 pm
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa13/yawning.jpg)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 05:03:05 pm
Is that guy tired trying to design a better clamp?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 05:12:22 pm
you can not Patent a idea in the UK
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 05:18:20 pm
You can if it is totally new, its a bit like if you were the first to invent the lightbulb, you might copy it and make it look like a banana but if it electrically lights up its still a light bulb.

Alex has a utility patent that protects the concept.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 05:39:45 pm
You prepare a ‘patent
application’ which includes:
• a written ‘description’ of
your invention (allowing
others to see how it works
and how it could be made);
‘drawings’ (to illustrate your
description);
• ‘claims’ (precise legal
statements in the form of
single sentences that define
your invention by setting
out its distinctive technical
features); and
• an ‘abstract’ (a summary
that includes all the important
technical aspects of your
invention).

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-basicfacts.pdf
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 05:54:08 pm
All i can suggest is make a self adjusting clamp and see what happens.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: mufcglen on January 01, 2014, 06:42:15 pm
So nobody can make a self adjusting clamp as gardiners have patented the idea?
Does that mean if any of these new poles coming out like the vlite has any sort of self adjusting clamps then they're in trouble?
I always thought it was the design rather than the idea that couldn't be copied!
Learn something new every day, I'm not thinking about designing my own poles by the way lol I'm just intrigued by these pole debates going on here!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 01, 2014, 06:51:02 pm
Im under the impression its the spring thats new as some of these clamps are used for various things other than wfp?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 07:23:22 pm
The spring in the centre does nothing apart from allowing the sections to run smoother and help with clamp adjustment,  but as the pole wears the spring stops it from closing ???.
The spring is nothing to do with self adjusting in these Chinese poles.
But it is difficult to adjust the clamp with out spring in them, not well thought out.
What i will say is there will be alot of people asking for refunds if i bought them in and sold them as they are.
I have invested in tooling to bring them up to scratch.

Steven.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: dave0123 on January 01, 2014, 07:33:11 pm
Looks like windywasher will have to import the ones kempy bought  ;D  got different clamps on lol.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 01, 2014, 07:39:12 pm
The spring in the centre does nothing apart from allowing the sections to run smoother and help with clamp adjustment,  but as the pole wears the spring stops it from closing ???.
The spring is nothing to do with self adjusting in these Chinese poles.
But it is difficult to adjust the clamp with out spring in them, not well thought out.
What i will say is there will be alot of people asking for refunds if i bought them in and sold them as they are.
I have invested in tooling to bring them up to scratch.

Steven.

sorry I mean its only the spring that affects the patent.
Where my unit is theres a injection moulding company.i rang jim earlier about it and im seeing him this week to see what he thinks.
I can buy just the sections from the supplier in china and then fit clamps before sending poles out.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 07:49:10 pm
The spring affects the patent if in contributes to making them self adjusting.
Where the spring is in the middle this does not breach alex patent.
I talked to china about the problem but they said they have already spent money and were unwilling to adjust them.
If anyone can afford to produce there own clamp design go for it.
That is the best way but risky as big investment.

Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: steven 1 on January 01, 2014, 08:00:54 pm
The spring in the centre does nothing apart from allowing the sections to run smoother and help with clamp adjustment,  but as the pole wears the spring stops it from closing ???.
The spring is nothing to do with self adjusting in these Chinese poles.
But it is difficult to adjust the clamp with out spring in them, not well thought out.
What i will say is there will be alot of people asking for refunds if i bought them in and sold them as they are.
I have invested in tooling to bring them up to scratch.

Steven.

sorry I mean its only the spring that affects the patent.
Where my unit is theres a injection moulding company.i rang jim earlier about it and im seeing him this week to see what he thinks.
I can buy just the sections from the supplier in china and then fit clamps before sending poles out.
yes thats right as ionic swift use same clamp.
I also so tried xinbo poles but these where bad, look good but gaps in clamps to small last about 2 months.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: mufcglen on January 01, 2014, 08:18:43 pm
could somone not invent a pole where rather than any clamps you twisted the pole and it locked itself up inside the tube?
that could possibly be a good idea wouldnt it?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 01, 2014, 08:37:28 pm
could somone not invent a pole where rather than any clamps you twisted the pole and it locked itself up inside the tube?
that could possibly be a good idea wouldnt it?

I was thinking this,simillar to a harris?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: rosskesava on January 01, 2014, 08:55:12 pm
could somone not invent a pole where rather than any clamps you twisted the pole and it locked itself up inside the tube?
that could possibly be a good idea wouldnt it?


I've often wondered that. I've an Unger extension pole for trad cleaning that locks by twisting it either way.

Also, I cannot understand what is so complex about a clamp unless it has something to do with built in redundancy.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Tony Edwards on January 01, 2014, 09:13:58 pm


Is it me or is this so so boring now !!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: MWC on January 01, 2014, 09:18:56 pm
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa13/yawning.jpg)

+1 Another useless topic.

Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 01, 2014, 09:55:27 pm
ideas come from useless topics! Then a company uses them  ;D
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: David Durrant on January 02, 2014, 03:34:35 pm
Just thought id bump this back up again if you all stop arguing il have to sit and watch the soaps with my missis
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Pete Thompson on January 02, 2014, 05:25:20 pm
Feel sorry for gardiner

good luck trying to enforce patents on chinese suppliers.  I've seen that happen before with much bigger companies, you have no chance.

Looks like these cheap china poles and clamps more or less exactly like yours are gonna be a game changer.  (not for the 10 or so forum fanboys, but for everyone else who will look at them and say "its the same thing only cheaper")
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Lee GLS on January 02, 2014, 05:48:40 pm
Feel sorry for gardiner

good luck trying to enforce patents on chinese suppliers.  I've seen that happen before with much bigger companies, you have no chance.

Looks like these cheap china poles and clamps more or less exactly like yours are gonna be a game changer.  (not for the 10 or so forum fanboys, but for everyone else who will look at them and say "its the same thing only cheaper")

It had already been said that the clamps are not the same and the spring fitted to them is a waste of time, so they will not be as good.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 02, 2014, 06:19:46 pm
The chap selling them on Ebay still hasn't any feedback from selling his poles.

I'm starting to think that if you have a pole to sell from a recognised UK supplier, you will get buyer interest. If you are an unknown selling a pole, then it going to be difficult.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 02, 2014, 06:30:46 pm
The chap selling them on Ebay still hasn't any feedback from selling his poles.

I'm starting to think that if you have a pole to sell from a recognised UK supplier, you will get buyer interest. If you are an unknown selling a pole, then it going to be difficult.
im a unknown supplier but had many emails they want to order 1 or 2 poles each.
I think he needs to let people know about there rather than only using ebay.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: rosskesava on January 02, 2014, 06:47:58 pm
With ebay, does anyone know the law about the guarantee that comes with new products?

Gardiner's stuff comes with a guarantee as do stuff from other manufacturers.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: mufcglen on January 02, 2014, 07:03:08 pm
the thing for me is why would somone buy a pole off a guy on ebay no matter how good they was if he doesnt have a website and everything else that goes with his business!
no one wants to spend good money on a pole only for it to break and then what do you do about warranty etc if its a fault with part of the pole?
thats why i went with gardiners, no messing, the websites there and easy to navigate, Alex is on here all the time and plenty of good comments in general off fellow windies.
i'd only buy from abroad if i was gonna save a shedload then it would be worth it for me and as somone said on here early on, theres the other end of the scale where bigger windies who make some good money dont mind spending big money for decent carbon poles as they pay for themselves in no time but for me as a one man business still building work i need something reliable, decent priced and has a good backup!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: deeege on January 02, 2014, 07:28:19 pm
the thing for me is why would somone buy a pole off a guy on ebay no matter how good they was if he doesnt have a website and everything else that goes with his business!
no one wants to spend good money on a pole only for it to break and then what do you do about warranty etc if its a fault with part of the pole?
thats why i went with gardiners, no messing, the websites there and easy to navigate, Alex is on here all the time and plenty of good comments in general off fellow windies.
i'd only buy from abroad if i was gonna save a shedload then it would be worth it for me and as somone said on here early on, theres the other end of the scale where bigger windies who make some good money dont mind spending big money for decent carbon poles as they pay for themselves in no time but for me as a one man business still building work i need something reliable, decent priced and has a good backup!

Exactly this.

Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Nathanael Jones on January 02, 2014, 07:48:36 pm
There's a couple of types of poles that are big in America & are hardly ever seen here (Simpoles and ReachIT) - - would it not be a better idea to re-sell a "known brand" that's new to the UK but still has a proven track record??
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 02, 2014, 08:09:06 pm
There's a couple of types of poles that are big in America & are hardly ever seen here (Simpoles and ReachIT) - - would it not be a better idea to re-sell a "known brand" that's new to the UK but still has a proven track record??
Not heard many great reports about the 2 poles above.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Lee GLS on January 02, 2014, 08:11:52 pm
The window cleaning Facebook community's are filled with negative comments about the reach it clamps, and it sounds like they do not stand by their 3 year warrenty, they accuse the pole user of abusing the pole so it voids the warrenty.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Soupy on January 02, 2014, 08:13:19 pm
I'm with Matt...

(http://www.synergy-athletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/yawn.gif)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 02, 2014, 08:28:20 pm
There's a couple of types of poles that are big in America & are hardly ever seen here (Simpoles and ReachIT) - - would it not be a better idea to re-sell a "known brand" that's new to the UK but still has a proven track record??

Perry Tait has his poles made in China. I once saw a Chinese address for him in those days when he was keeping a lower profile.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: mufcglen on January 02, 2014, 08:31:08 pm
theres a post today on there with a video of a guy not happy with a reach it pole spinning like mad and dont think its that old either!
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: G Griffin on January 02, 2014, 08:32:24 pm
There's a couple of types of poles that are big in America & are hardly ever seen here (Simpoles and ReachIT) - - would it not be a better idea to re-sell a "known brand" that's new to the UK but still has a proven track record??

Perry Tait has his poles made in China.
They sound very fragile.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on January 02, 2014, 08:38:33 pm
The reach-it poles have been around for quite some time, if they were any good we'd have all known about it by now! ;)

The guy who was the UK distributor used to come on here.

The best poles are already out there & well known, if anything comes along that betters these we'll all know about it pretty quickly. ;)

Is there cheaper? probably, is there better? NO. :)
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: rosskesava on January 02, 2014, 08:50:09 pm
I'm with Matt...

(http://www.synergy-athletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/yawn.gif)

It's very simple.

Don't read this topic.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Soupy on January 03, 2014, 08:36:01 am
Quote from: rosskesava
It's very simple.

Don't read this topic.

Is it? Is it that simple? This is what, the 10th separate topic about this issue? Not to mention the multitude of comments on other topics that would not really make any sense without the context of these posts.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 03, 2014, 11:57:40 am
I have just thought of a better way of making these clamps, anyone want to do a deal on my idea ?
I will send a disclosure form.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: windiewasher on January 03, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
I have just thought of a better way of making these clamps, anyone want to do a deal on my idea ?
I will send a disclosure form.
can you drop me a email wightsurf please
info@cleanerbrighterwindowcleaners.co.uk
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: James Bulton on January 03, 2014, 01:13:39 pm
Importing poles is like a good piece on the side. You don`t tell every about it. Unless you want to shear it with every TOM Dick and Harry. End of. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: wightsurf on January 03, 2014, 08:26:52 pm
I have just thought of a better way of making these clamps, anyone want to do a deal on my idea ?
I will send a disclosure form.
can you drop me a email wightsurf please
info@cleanerbrighterwindowcleaners.co.uk

I will, as soon as I can get into it. I have been locked out  ???
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: CleanClear on January 03, 2014, 09:30:31 pm

Perry Tait has his poles made in China. I once saw a Chinese address for him in those days when he was keeping a lower profile.

Nowadays he makes it easier for you to know. It says on the box..."Kiwi Ingenuity, manufactured in China". Are you not paying attention to Waggas videos?
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 03, 2014, 09:39:06 pm

Perry Tait has his poles made in China. I once saw a Chinese address for him in those days when he was keeping a lower profile.

Nowadays he makes it easier for you to know. It says on the box..."Kiwi Ingenuity, manufactured in China". Are you not paying attention to Waggas videos?

  ;D  ;D  ;D

No I didn't notice that. Wagga was so full of praise for the pole that I lost interest. IMHO it sounded as though it was a Reach-it promo, although I'm sure it wasn't.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: Spruce on January 03, 2014, 09:52:39 pm
You are right - the chinese manufacturer's name is all over the box.

I also noticed that the transverse clamps employ a spring behind the clamps like the Gardiner Smart clamps do.

Alex will be paying his clamps some attention then in the next few weeks.  ;D

Alex and Perry will get a chance to get reacquainted again after all these years.
Title: Re: Windywasher poles?
Post by: CleanClear on January 03, 2014, 10:01:22 pm
You are right - the chinese manufacturer's name is all over the box.

Hey!, its not often i'm wrong.  ;D


I also noticed that the transverse clamps employ a spring behind the clamps like the Gardiner Smart clamps do.

Alex will be paying his clamps some attention then in the next few weeks.  ;D

I'm a bit behind with the whole debacle, but i've been trying to catch up. From what i can make of it all so far is that Alex is resigned to the fact that people may well imitate his poles and clamps (specifically the Chinese manufacturers). That is why he has applied for this Chinese patent.
 I have a vision for the future, the Ebay suppliers selling his copies will be closed down through the force of law. The van fests will end up selling copies and the trading standards will be present at such meets !  ;D
 Just put the Harris pole twist clamps on them i say !!!