Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jason Hedges on March 18, 2006, 12:40:45 am
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Hi all,
I've been carpet cleaning for a couple of years now and when I had some money part bought a year old vauxhall vivaro and had it nicely sign-written. 2 years down the line the £250 a month repayments on the van are taking its toll (with 3 years left on the finance). I've recently bought a smaller older van and had it written the same and have noticed a noticeable increase in van enquiries!
Does having a new smart van put off prospective customers because they think you'll be more expensive? On my experience yes it does!!!
Any comments more than welcome.....
Kind regards,
Jason.
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Interesting point Jason and you are probably right with your observations. When a tradesman, or sales rep turns up in a flash vehicle, I suspect we all subconciously adopt a defensive mode and are less likely to want to do business'
This kind of comment, will be rubbished by some of the '' wannabee high fliers '' but I suspect that, reverse psychology, takes over when people are confronted with, what they percieve to be Mr Flash and Mr Reliable on their doorstep.
I hadn't thought of this before, but I suspect I am personally affected in exactly this way..........
rob m
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suddenly my old banger of a van looks much better ;D
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Jason , i would say the complete opposite, rob is talking twaddle ;)
So we all might as well go out and buy an old clapped out transit, "sure to make an impression"
and just imagine if all the top companys thought like that, no new van sales ;D
Infact while you at it , might as well turn up in a scuffy track suit bottoms and a jumper with holes all over it, and perhaps a pen and the back of a fAg packet to take the details ;D
Having said that Rob might have a point :-\ If that is the type of custy you are seeking
Geoff
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I have just bought a new vehicle, so now should I buy an old number-plate 8)
Regards,
Arthur
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As you may or may not know I dont sign write my van but having said that I clean it before every customer so that they do indeed see a clean smart vehicle. My opinion is that as we are cleaners shouldnt we present clean when we arrive. When I meet new designers and interior decorators which are my main source of business it is my van and how it is and looks that gives me the first impression that I am looking for..... Having said that I understand what else has been written on this subject just feel it is not for me. With the customers that I have do you think they would have me on their grounds if I looked clapped out so to speak. With regards looking expensive, that is exactly the impression I want to give!!!!! Therefore I ask, do we want to give the impression we are cheep???? Best, Dave.
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I don't agree with this idea. Its one thing a rep driving up in a top of the range BM or Merc. That instantly gives an impression and different people will react in a different way.
But vans are a different kettle of fish. Personally I would prefer any tradesman to turn up in a resonably new van. If he turns up in a P reg Transit, I immediately think "he can't be making much" with the thought that he isn't very good at what he does.
Also Mrs Smith & Co probably wouldn't know a brand new van from their elbow.
New vehicles give you reliability and also the RIGHT image.
I would guess you have had more enquires because your message is concentrated in a smaller area and has more impact.
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Hi Jason
It’s all down to how you approach the customer and how you educate the customer and most importantly which kind of customer do you want.
Professionalism always pays and when you have clean sign written van, you always command respect from customer.
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Jason.
I am glad changing your van has increasedyour sales.
You have lowered your overhead cost.
Now you can put more money into Marketing
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I think your wrong.
A builder comes to your door in dirty clothes and an old rusty dirty van. Whats your impression of his service and ability to care for your home if he cant care for himself??
Only last week a customer commented on how good my van looked compared to his plumbers.
Of course those who think cheap buy cheap and are they the customers you really want?
Mark
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Of course those who think cheap buy cheap and are they the customers you really want?
Good point Mark, so I am not changing my number-plate ;D
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But do you really need a 15k plus van?
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Ian, mine didnt cost anywhere near that but point taken, with regards the market I am in then yes I need the van I have and what is in it too. I have 30k invested in my van and set up but as you know I charge accordingly. Best, Dave.
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Ian
You could get a 2 year old transit in VGC for around £5000.
SWB that is.
Mark
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but what good is a short wheel base????
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Mark,
My point exactly
But if you work out the costs of the origional post The cost of the van was 15k over five years
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Oh ok, wasnt paying too much attention, sorry mate,.... thats why I pay cash for everything, best, Dave.
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if you pull up outside a customers house in a clean van how do they know if its 1month or 4yrs old? do they come out and look at the number plate? ;) ;)
if your worried why not go out and quote in your car on an evening, ( oops that would be worse for me because i drive a Merc ;D ;D)
Mike
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Mike, good comment...... mine is 4 years old just looks clean. As you suggested it doesnt have to be new just look good. Oh and my van is a Mercedes he says with a smile, best, Dave.
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DON'T THINK I SAID .............OLD DIRTY VAN AND CLOTHES............ETC
The point was..............you do not impress people by being FLASH after all, it's your voice on the phone that's got you to their door and it's how you present yourself, VISUALLY AND VOCALLY at that point, that will win, or lose the day.
If you feel the need to spend a great deal on your signage.........fine..........I have a number of vehicles and the one that arrives at clients doors is unlettered, but always clean and tidy, as are the machines and equipment I take to their door.
have a nice day
Mark.............you read much more into a few generalisations than what's been written
and I repeat '' the filling is more important than the packaging ''
for filling substitute..........person
for packaging substitute................van
nuff said
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Good point Rob, and my van isnt sign written either, best, Dave.
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...my van isnt sign written either, best, Dave.
Can I ask why?
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Arthur, I have never sign written my vans...... Most of my work comes from high end carpet shops and most important designers.....Therefore I represent different people on different days. This way I can always introduce my self as a colleague of whoever I am representing. Their theory and I have to agree with it is that if you are good enough at what you do then you shouldnt have to advertise. Accordingly I have never advertised for work ever. Lastly, on some of the jobs I go on it is requested that I arrive in an un sign written vehicle. This is for their security reasons whatever they may be. I know this is not the norm but it works for me. I do charge considerably more than most people do for what I do but I have a lot more guidelines to follow and at the end of the day we are all cleaning sleepers so to speak, I just jump maybe a little higher when asked. Hope this helped to answer, best, Dave.
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Very interesting Dave,
Do you advertise at all, like yellow pages etc?
Regards,
Arthur
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Arthur, no I dont advertise in anyway shape or form. Having said that I am as we speak getting some business cards printed and a mate of mine and I are getting a web site up together. When it is up I will post it on here to get the reactions good or bad from those on the forum. Best, Dave.
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An old van isn't necessarily scruffy at all.
I have a "P" Escort van, an "R" Astra van, a "T" Courier and "S" and "W" Berlingos, all of which, having been looked after by the drivers, still look perfect. We are cleaners, after all, so keeping our vans clean and smart isn't a bind.
The only scruffy van left now is a "T" Kangoo with a couple of small dents and rusty wheel arches. That will be next to go... eventually, but it's still making a decent living for one of my staff.
Just got rid of the scruffiest van, an "R" VW Caddy, and hardly lost any money after a year's use.
I think if customers saw me turn up in my "55" reg Merc 4x4 they would think my company is too dear; but then again, for what I paid for that I could buy 30 decent vans!
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Oh... forgot to mention.... I've paid so much for vinyl signs over the years I've just ordered the machine to cut them myself.
It comes with the software and runs off a USB port, and at less than £500 it should soon pay for itself.
It's my birthday soon, anyway!
Now I can put special offers on the vans, and change the offer whenever I want.... just takes a hair dryer!
Hopefully I will get the hang of working it when it comes, and find somewhere in the office to fit it!
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Hi all,
Thanks for all your replies sorry haven't been online since first post.
I'd like to reply to you all but theres been too many............
Was getting on well with the new cost efficient ;D 'R reg SEAT INCA SDI' ;D until today when its started making horrible knocking noises at the front from somewhere and darent drive it anymore until I get it fixed!!!
I've just finished taking the sign writing off the 'old' vivaro and cleaned it up ready to sell so thank god I've got it to fall back on for work.
Theres something to be said for a newer vehicle......... RELIABILITY!
Just for the record I've done a few repeat jobs and no-one has commented on the smaller older van, I was quite conscious about driving it at first but after a few days tried not to think about it.
In summary:
Pro's to having an older smaller van:
Small cheap van created more enquiries from the same sign writing (possibly because I live in a low income area of the country).
No finance......
Con's to having an older smaller van:
It has made me feel less professional and feels like customers are judging me on my vehicle when I pull up.
Van is too small, have to stack equipment and chemicals up so getting at certain items is a pain having to unload items to get access.
Unreliable...... Perhaps I've just bought a dog!
Pro's to having a newer bigger van:
Where do I start........
Feel more professional pulling up outside customers house or business.
Prefer driving it.
Feel I can warrant charging a bit more to cover the expense!
Reliable......... So far!
Con's to having a newer bigger van:
Finance.............
I'm going to try and persuade the missus to cut down on her shoe collection so I can keep the vivaro, if she doesn't I'll get rid of her so I can keep it :D
I really hope she doesn't read this ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks again for all your comments,
Kind regards,
Jason.
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You have gone from one extreme to the other.
But if you n get to old van fixed you should be Ok for the Summer
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My preference for small vans, goes back to my earlies days about 22 years ago, when it became obvious, to me, that it was more practical, especially around town, to be able to park in tiny spaces.
My original van was the tiny Honda, with two cylinders and under 600cc, but, what a workhorse.
Biggest I ever used in this business, was a Sherpa and like so many tradespeople, I currently use a little Suzuki, but again, like the Honda.............
It's surprisingly commodious, has an amazing 1300cc engine and..........is a dawdle to park and squeeze through small gaps..............it only cost €5400 new ( pounds not euros ) cant find the pound sign in my notebook.
have a restful weekend
rob m
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getting on well with the new cost efficient 'R reg SEAT INCA SDI'
You've not bought the one I just got rid of, did you ???
By the way, just been to my local Citroen dealer to look at Berlingo Vans (for new carpet cleaning business) and saw the Berlingo Multispace.
1) buy second hand, 52 plate, low mileage (39,000), 1 owner, perfect condition £4,000. And a year's warranty, valet, full service, new mot included. Looked after perfectly, just compare that to a typical 3 year old van....
2) bright colour cars.... put eye-catching graphics all over the car.... more noticeable 'cos all vans have writing on them, cars don't
3) staff have a company car they can use at weekends.... makes recruitment easier
4) sell second hand, 6 year old car for much more money than van.... so less depreciation
5) if you are not registered for VAT you lose 17.5% on a van straight away, not so on a car
6) fold the seats down and you have the same space as the van
Conclusion..... I am selling my vans one by one, and buying Multispaces.
(by the way, I've got a T reg Fiesta Courier for sale.... good condition, no rust on the wheelarches-this must be unique.)
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Conclusion..... I am selling my vans one by one, and buying Multispaces.
Andrew, Berlingo Multispace is a passenger car. Do you mean you are going to use a passenger car for your carpet cleaning business?
Regards,
Arthur
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I've just looked at the costs of running older vans over the last year....... after routine servicing this is what was needed... it's quite interesting
K Transit ..... alternator, a bit of welding for mot
P Escort ...... nothing ;D
R Caddy/Inca ...... 1 door lock set
R Astra ...... nothing ;D
R Kangoo ...... central locking kit
S Berlingo ..... 1 battery
T Kangoo ..... glow plugs, rear drums, pads, washer pump,
T Courier ..... head gasket, fan belt, cv boots, discs, pads, alternator mountings, door handle, handbrake cable :(
W Berlingo ..... nothing ;D
compared to newer cars
W Mercedes SLK ..... 1 battery
Y Mercedes ML270 ..... the whole bloody engine management computer, PX for new car ££££ ££££ ££££ ££££ :-[
03 Megane ..... clutch cable, wheel bearings
05 Hyundai Santa Fe ..... glove box lid, reversing sensors,
55 Mercedes ML350 ..... central locking motor, seat adjustment motor, CD multichanger
OK the newer ones are free warranty repairs, but even brand new is no guarantee of perfect reliability
In general, either Citroen are reliable (or basic... nothing to go wrong) but I'm sticking to Berlingo's in future.
Arthur.... yes, I am going to use "passenger cars"... but more exactly "MPVs" (multi-purpose vehicles). Fold the back seat down, there's plenty of space. There's tying down points to secure heavy gear for safety. A decent waterproof tray to put chemicals in should protect the interior, and staff are not allowed to leave equipment in vans overnight (for insurance) so I don't see a security issue.
Plus, Citroen do a really vivid emerald green..... you can't say it won't be noticeable.
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...Arthur.... yes, I am going to use "passenger cars"... but more exactly "MPVs" (multi-purpose vehicles). Fold the back seat down, there's plenty of space. There's tying down points to secure heavy gear for safety. A decent waterproof tray to put chemicals in should protect the interior, and staff are not allowed to leave equipment in vans overnight (for insurance) so I don't see a security issue...
Andrew, I have just bought one, brand new 2 liters diesel for £8850-00. Traded my old car in for £1400 (did not expect to get more than £1000) + £1400 cash back from the Citroen + £800 deposit and the rest is interest free credit for two years (24 payments of £277).
Seems that I am not going to be the only person in the UK to use Berlingo Multispace for carpet cleaning... ;D
Regards,
Arthur
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And there was me thinking that you thought it was a bad idea....
I think they're brilliant cars!
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Hi Andrew
I notice you have had 2 ML Mercs , I had an ML270 and a ML320 they were cr*p
what do you think of them ?
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My vehicles are not sign writen. I do however Clean them once a week (interior and exterior).
Older vehicles are more trouble than any cost saving and will only let you down or leak oil. I have found to my cost that using pasanger carying vehicles even as a general runabout is a shore way to get scratched bumpers and stained upolstery.
I curently run a 3 year old MWB new shape transit. This gives a tidy image without being too flash and at £6500 did not break the bank.
I have only ever received compliments on my present vehicles and customers like the fact that Im not signwriten as it makes me seem exclusive and helps the them justify the fact that my prices are far higher than the majority of local firms.
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And there was me thinking that you thought it was a bad idea....
I just was not sure (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=17090.0), but I think it is big enough for porty. :) Now I am thinking of buying CFR, which uses recycled water... 8) I would not buy DriMaster just as yet, but to me CFR and DriMaster are "perfect due"
oops ::) out of subject :-X
Regards,
Arthur
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I should add that i do own a l reg mark 3 troooper. This is curently just used as a runabout and for towing the twin axle trailers and very rarely goes near a customer.
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Hi Andrew
I notice you have had 2 ML Mercs , I had an ML270 and a ML320 they were cr*p
what do you think of them ?
Too many things went wrong with the ML270.... but that could be down to the previous owner, who had several kids to beggar the interior and who had it serviced (occasionally) by a non franchised garage.......
I bought the ML350 new, while the 270 was in my local MB dealer for repair..... they offered such a good deal that I would have been a fool to refuse, and at least I have a 3 year warranty
Couple of teething problems, but can I say that the motors were not faulty, just a bit noisy........ but that isn't good enough on a merc.
Bought my wife an ex-demo Hyundai Santa Fe 4x4, less than half the price of the ML, but you can see the difference in the quality... brittle plastic interior, rattly bits, thrown together like a Blue Peter model with a radio that sounds like 2 tins and a length of string!
My wife's Hyundai is a 2 litre Diesel, my ML is a 3.8 petrol. She gets 25 mpg, I get 23mpg
I also have an SLK for fun, and it has never given me a days trouble apart from the battery, and that was only because it was parked in my garage for 6 months during the winter.
My ML is comfortable, almost silent even at 80 on the motorway, spacious, smooth, safe, and I will have another one when this wears out (but at about 8000 miles a year that should be in 2025 "when I'm sixty four")
My local MB dealer is superb. Even though the ML270 was not bought from them, when I had a breakdown problem they took it in straight away, put 2 mechanics on it immediately, and fixed it within the hour!
No contest. I will have MB, and I will have MB from "Mercedes Benz Southport" till they have to bury me in one.
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Andrew, I have just bought one, brand new 2 liters diesel for £8850-00.
Arthur, that's as cheap as the van version (till you reclaim the vat) and the residuals are bound to be much better.
I think it is big enough for porty
Fold the seats down and no problem at all... you could hide a whole family of asylum seekers under the booze and fAgs on the way back from France... it's like the sides are made of elastic!
no offence intended to anyone.... my family came from east germany 3 generations ago, and just in time too!
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I have found to my cost that using pasanger carying vehicles even as a general runabout is a shore way to get scratched bumpers and stained upolstery.
Paul, I agree completely. Carrying goods is a sure way to guarantee wear and tear to any vehicle.
However, my points are that
1)you will get back much more money when you sell a 5 year old, high mileage car, even with scratched bumpers and stained upholstery (and we can clean upholstery, can't we?) than when you sell a 5 year old, high mileage van, with equally scratched bumpers and tatty interior
2)staff will prefer a car to a van, as they can use it at weekends with the family
3)if you are buying second hand, a 3 year old car is usually much better looked after than a 3 year old van
4)the car version has nicer seats, electric windows, tinted glass, does not use any more fuel, is often cheaper to insure, and comes in a much wider range of colours
No good for a truck mount though :) :) :)
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Just bought the first of the Multispaces
79,000 miles on a Y, silver, perfect condition, under £3000, and insurance is no more than the vans. Drives like a dream, much better sound insulation than the van versions.
If I get 3 years use and throw it away then it's good value; if I sell it for just what I have spent in those 3 years on repairs then I have paid less than £20 a week.
Bargain!
Just off to look at an X reg with 39,000 miles for £3200, vivid metallic green. If it's as good as the dealer says, I'm having it.
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By the way..... don't bother paying loads more for a diesel..... get an LPG conversion on a cheap petrol one if you are doing immense mileage!
If you aren't going all over the country, have a petrol one. Your hands stay cleaner, you don't get spilt diesel on your shoes (tread that in to a customer's home and she will want her carpets cleaned for free!
Diesel, cheap, dirty, smelly stuff
Petrol, nice but pricey
LPG cheaper, cleaner stuff
Electric, cheapest, cleanest, no road tax and no congestion charge! If you clean carpets in London, get an electric Berlingo!
They are as rare as rocking horse manure, but worth the search.
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Andrew have you tried getting a portable in and out of a mpv yet?
The reason i ask the machine i use is a extracta and i tried getting it in a car once when my van broke down and nearly broke my back.
I use a fiesta courier and all you do is tilt the machine back on its rear wheels get the front wheels to sit up on the van and push it in no problem at all. I wouldnt want to try lifting a portable on my own or trie anything like that with nice colour coded bumpers.
I also see your courier had more repairs than all the rest of your fleet mine has been none stop, iv now had wheel nuts, rear lock, rear window ruber, water pump, water hose, clutch, complete exhaust, brake pads and more, and now the power steering fluids leaking and its due new cam belt and service, and its starting to rust.
Easy to load not bad to drive and quite spacious but piece of $hitt
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Red,
CFR is different.. take a look at the photo on the bottom of this page (http://www.amtechuk.biz/perfect_heat_spec_b.php).
Regards,
Arthur
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So is extracta if you belive everything you see and read take a look at the photo on this page www.extracta.co.uk/busopps.htm
trust me this is not possible on a daily basis on your own. Not without ruining 1. your back or 2.your car
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I love CFR for two reasons:
1 It uses recycled water
2 It has the whiles on the top and on the bottom (http://www.amtechuk.biz/extractor.php) what makes it REALY EASY to load and re-load it into/from a van or a car like Berlingo, which I have just bought.
Red, by the way, may I ask you how much water you recover?
Regards,
Arthur
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Just checked both sites and the cfr is actually heavier than the extracta,
Arthur have you brought the cfr yet? as i saw on a recent post you say you havent actually cleaned a carpet yet.
I have no experience of cfr or berlingos. but from my experience of extracta machine, ford courier van and car (golf) i wouldnt try it not on a daily basis.
With regards to water it depends on fabric a average if i put 5 bucketts in i guess i get about 3 out
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Red, (dunno your name)
I visited carpex and have spoken to Bosh (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=17697.20), who has got CFR. I am going to Nottingham in April for a training and will see and try CFR.
As you say you recover 3 bucket out of 5 used it makes about 60% recovering, CFR recovers about 80-85% I was told. The better recovery the shorter drying times, you know that. This is not all.
Because recovery rate is about 80% CFR can work at 400 PSI, what about Extracta?
Regards,
Arthur
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Hi Arthur
I would say that as a average but to be honest i'm not sure it may be more its not somthing i have paid a lot of attention to
and a lot will depend on fabric and the condition for example if you have to keep going over a area the first time you clean your ingecting and extracting from a dry fabric the second time the fabric will allready be saturated so i wouldnt expect the same recovery.
You have different carpet types and diffferent thickness of pile so recovery will vary.
Its only through cleaning that you will understand these differences, the cfr may well be better
the reason that i would not be to sure of the cfr is that after cleaning with my machine i am not only left with dirty water in my recovery tank but big lumps of carpet fibres pet hair etc that you pull out by the handfull.
What happens to these with cfr?
Daniel
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Daniel,
As far as I was told you drain the dirty water (into toilet I guess) and then you clean the filters. I think Peter (carpetclean) (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=8234) mentioned that it takes about 10 minute or so..
Regards,
Arthur
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red !
been looking at this post & what a wicked idea berlingo mpv for carpet cleaners right price right image i will be looking into trading in my vectra sri instead of useing my luton van to start up there are ramps available think soulitions do 1 if you look in the buy & sell bit the eclipes thats for sale is useing same 1 i got with my advantage !
with regard to water recovery recon mine recover's i recon 80%
most custards dont know about drying times arthur so thats something else you'll have to sell to them could be confusing to slag someone else's system off which is so simlar to 1 your thinking of getting
tom
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Tom,
What machine and number of PSI do you use?
Regards,
Arthur
Added later
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I am not slagging any systems just trying to find the best option for me from those that are on today's market 8)
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the reason that i would not be to sure of the cfr is that after cleaning with my machine i am not only left with dirty water in my recovery tank but big lumps of carpet fibres pet hair etc that you pull out by the handfull.
What happens to these with cfr?
Daniel
This gets trapped by the very first filter in the system. It doesn't even get into the water tank. You just lift the lid and pull the gunk out. Easy. :)
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hi Arthur
i got the alltec advantage which i got 2nd hand with 250 hour use 50 ft hoses sprayers both hand tools chemicals brushes the lot for £1250 also got a tm4 (host) type machine for £150 as will be useing micro splitter as so user friendly 135 psi on these which is way below crf & many other machines but does the job for me
Tom