Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: KS Cleaning on December 27, 2013, 06:20:07 pm
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So 1 of my employees who has been employed from January 2013 decided not to turn up for work on Monday December 13th, he never even said he wouldn't be at work, a went to pick him up and he wasn't there, also phoned him but his phone was off, a was fuming but just left it at that. Never heard back from him....until today (2 weeks later) asking what to do about a doctors line, a said that as he hadn't informed me of his absence he wouldn't qualify for sick pay, and I told him he would prob be better lookin for another job. Text later from him= 'I have pulled the muscles in my chest and arm carrying that backpack so I am on the sick and will be going down the proper channels, cheers'.
I must admit I do employ in a trusting/casual manner which will probably go against me, this is an employee who I have given loans of £1000, then £400 in the past, so it is galling that he will now resort to this sort of thing. It is maybe something else to consider for those of you thinking of employing.
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I must admit I do employ in a trusting/casual manner which will probably go against me,
Can you specify what you mean by 'trusting/casual manner'?
Is the employment all above board and legal?
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never text or write to somebody like that . if by chance he calls you up just say ON YOUR BIKE ,say it as unpleasantly as you can so he knows you are not an easy touch
if he takes it further dont write or reply to anything unless legally forced too ,even then think it over before Any response
i learnt this from working alongside a guy who employed quite a few employees, he had learned all the tricks over the years .
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I must admit I do employ in a trusting/casual manner which will probably go against me,
Can you specify what you mean by 'trusting/casual manner'?
Is the employment all above board and legal?
Yes it's all legal Tosh, casual prob wasn't a very good choice of word. He is employed 24 hours per week. Where I have been silly is I don't have emplyee contract etc.
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Where I have been silly is I don't have emplyee contract etc.
I wouldn't worry about it then... If he doesn't have an employee contract what can he do?
Andy
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If you need some advice these are impartial and free http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042
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Where I have been silly is I don't have emplyee contract etc.
I wouldn't worry about it then... If he doesn't have an employee contract what can he do?
Andy
He still has a contract - just not in a written form. The law will imply certain terms into the contract based on past conduct - such as hours and payment rate for example.
Cheers, Tom
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I presume what he he means when he says
'I have pulled the muscles in my chest and arm carrying that backpack so I am on the sick and will be going down the proper channels, cheers'
Is that he is going to try and get some financial recompense for an injury at work??
This is where employing can turn nasty, has he had the correct training, had sign off sheets for manual handling, have you documented and had signed things like contract, job description?? If not could be hes out to try and srew you financially.
Would be worth speaking to him and actually seeing whats what. No point in guessing, if you dont have much in the way of paperwork relating to his job you may be in a spot of bother if he does go to "no win no fee" brigade
The more you an get an employee to sign the better in my book, any training you give out get it written down and have them sign it, also no grey areas then.
Good luck, let us know how it goes
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Spend a few days with a video camera,its worth it . ;D
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I presume what he he means when he says
'I have pulled the muscles in my chest and arm carrying that backpack so I am on the sick and will be going down the proper channels, cheers'
Is that he is going to try and get some financial recompense for an injury at work??
This is where employing can turn nasty, has he had the correct training, had sign off sheets for manual handling, have you documented and had signed things like contract, job description?? If not could be hes out to try and srew you financially.
Would be worth speaking to him and actually seeing whats what. No point in guessing, if you dont have much in the way of paperwork relating to his job you may be in a spot of bother if he does go to "no win no fee" brigade
The more you an get an employee to sign the better in my book, any training you give out get it written down and have them sign it, also no grey areas then.
Good luck, let us know how it goes
Yep, this I think is where I have left myself open :( The ones you trust most can often be the ones who are most twisted.
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Thanks to all who have replied. Hope this also helps those who are unsure whether to employ or not, my advice would be to make sure you cover every small detail when employing (like MGBA has said).
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He sounds like the kind of guy who always tries to pull a fast one. I don't think he sounds like he's capable to 'go through the proper channels'.
If I were you I'd ignore anything he says from now on, he'll soon get bored.
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a presumed contract works two ways, yes he has entitlements presumed but so do you, like being informed in a timely manner of any absence etc, plus the fact it is just under a year should go in your favour, call his bluff and tell him to fill his boots whilst writing his P45, then see what happens
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Also go down the route of saying that you provided him with the correct training and working methods, so he must have been doing it wrong to get 'hurt'. Honestly, he sounds like a premier league footballer.
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Sack him immediately. Before he has run to over a year - send him a dismissal letter. Explain why he has been dismissed. Send it recorded delivery and keep a copy. Ignore text messages and the like from him. Seek legal advice.
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get ur self down to sitizens advice m8 good luck
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If he still owes you money, sell them to a nasty debt collecting company
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If you only employ him for 24 hours a week, what's he doing on his days off?
Any private work with a backpack?
Bloke I used to work with was a wood machinist for 30 years.
He worked at our place for less than 2.
Tried to sue our place for 'giving him cancer from working with MDF'
Agree with everyone who has said:
Sack him, by letter, special delivery. (Don't let the envelope look like it's come from you)
Don't do anything at all unless it's ordered by someone with any authority (court,judge etc)
Keep us posted.
All the best with it.
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The employee never informed you earlier, when he was having them, that he was having back problems due to the back pack then?
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sounds like he is going to have a go at getting compo,
it makes me angry/upset when this happens. You were good enough to give this guy a job and he is trying to screw you over.
obviously you have trained him verbally in the correct use of equipment and health and safety issues.
and obviously u had a verbal contract with this guy.
but learn from this m8.
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Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?
Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?
Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?
Anyone else remember any of that?
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Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?
Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?
Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?
Anyone else remember any of that?
Nope ;D
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Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?
Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?
Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?
Anyone else remember any of that?
;D ;D We use the WCW backpacks and just carry them by the handle, and as the employee in question had only started using the WFP a few months ago (he used to trad bottoms whilst others did tops WFP) I did actually say to him only to fill the backpack with the amount of water he was comfortable carrying. Also his last day of manual work before his phantom injury, we finished at 2 o clock, there was nothing wrong with him when he went out collecting for me from 5 til 7 30 the same night!
I will be phoning ACAS on Monday to get some advice
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ks I don't think he will persue this matter has he has not informed you of any problems relating to work issues. we all pull muscels its a windy thing. you just say he has the specific training and guidance relating to the job description. as they say its a fast one hes trying to pull. let this be a lesson to you all "don't employ ". they will only shaft ya.
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The point is also that an employee has to report problems he encounters other wise how can the employer act?
If he said nothing about a back pack doing his back in, then tough luck and I think a tribunal would also agree as an employer can only act when made aware of the problem.
Also, what about about his medical records? Has he been to his doctor? Was there any previous history of back problems that he didn't make his employer aware of when employed to start with? What treatment has he had in relation to his back problem?
There's also a can of worms regarding the employers obligations but my guess is, he'll do nothing about it.
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So no contact or a suitable excuse FOR 2 WEEKS . ??? ???
He claims he injured himself at work as advised terminate his contract surely HE is in breach of contract for not turning up for work for 2 weeks and not informing you why .
I mean the poor lads injury must have been so bad that he must have been heavily sedated in hospital and incapable of communicating with anyone for 2 weeks . :'( :'( :'(
If you have managed to get through your work for the past 2 weeks with out to much struggle you might be better off working on your own mate .
I hope you manage to get something sorted asap good luck mate . Mike
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Write everything down NOW.
The day and time he was supposed to turn up and didn't.
If relevant what happened when you tried to find out why he didn't turn up. (log any attempted phone calls and texts, non-replies and if you went to his place of residence.
The date of eventual contact and exactly what he said/texted.
When/how you fired him.
e.g - and if you have no written contract then verbally tell him.
You did not arrive at work when scheduled on (Date)
Despite numerous attempts to contact you, you did not reply for two weeks/15 days/whatever.
You have given no reason whatsoever for not contacting me.
My business has suffered as I have not been able to call on my customers in a timely fashion and this has resulted in the loss of a substantial amount of money to my cashflow.
Obviously this is gross misconduct and your employment is terminated.
Maybe add:
Any attempt to obtain monies from me under false pretenses will be met by a vigorous defence and a claim for loss of income due to your actions.
Send/take a written copy to his address and note when you "served" it to him.
(but as I've put some heavy stuff in you might be wise to take professional advice first)
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Andy,
you will find IT DOES MATTER that he hasn't been given a contract of employment, the employer has a legal responsibility to provide one.
Best thing to do from day 1, is draft up paperwork, date them, both sign, ie: manual handling checklist, PPE, Health & Safety induction record/checklist, Employee safety training record (waterfed pole, working at height, ladders, PPE, displaying warning signs, slip, trips, falls) etc
Basically to show you have done everything you can to look after yourself, your employee and members of the public.
You all might say its over the top, but it needs to be done.
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its a fickle thing employment law
I had two lads take me too a tribunal, they messed up big time on a maintenance job, walked off on the job on a Wednesday and under law i had to pay there full wages.
it wasn't all bad i got some reduction
what seems like common sense and morally right doesn't interpret in to law so has advised right everything down because it may be your word against his, unless your other employees can back you up
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Write everything down NOW.
The day and time he was supposed to turn up and didn't.
If relevant what happened when you tried to find out why he didn't turn up. (log any attempted phone calls and texts, non-replies and if you went to his place of residence.
The date of eventual contact and exactly what he said/texted.
When/how you fired him.
e.g - and if you have no written contract then verbally tell him.
You did not arrive at work when scheduled on (Date)
Despite numerous attempts to contact you, you did not reply for two weeks/15 days/whatever.
You have given no reason whatsoever for not contacting me.
My business has suffered as I have not been able to call on my customers in a timely fashion and this has resulted in the loss of a substantial amount of money to my cashflow.
Obviously this is gross misconduct and your employment is terminated.
Maybe add:
Any attempt to obtain monies from me under false pretenses will be met by a vigorous defence and a claim for loss of income due to your actions.
Send/take a written copy to his address and note when you "served" it to him.
(but as I've put some heavy stuff in you might be wise to take professional advice first)
Good advice. Especially the last bit.
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if theres any chance your lad reads this forum you want to change details of it etc
i changed my forum name after an employee of mine started claiming compo after crashin my van at 2mph not 20 feet from where i sat eating my lunch . he claimed total paralysis from eyes down . got nowhere because he didnt even go to see a doctor .
long as you do nothing now,keep schtum ,likely he will sink his own boat . they exaggerate if its not a genuine case
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can i ask guys, if you tok somebody on as a self employed basis do you still have to provide training etc?
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Glen,
not sure on that one, but seeing as there are claims all over the place, nothing would surprise me to be honest.
I would ask that question to a legal person, or if anyone on here knows for definate rather than guess, although i would still check
better to protect yourself and your business.
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can i ask guys, if you tok somebody on as a self employed basis do you still have to provide training etc?
You should ask to see their insurance and you should ensure that you have done all the checks you can . So whilst you may not have a duty to train them, you do have a duty to make sure they know what they are doing. This could come in the form of them providing you with training certificates for training they've undertaken and/or you assessing them.
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Employer - Employee relationships... When they work they ... work. But when they don't then they can turn into a nightmare of stress and anxiety these days, mainly for the Employer. We live in such a Blame/Claim culture.
You can get quite a bit of useful info by looking on HMRC website, also HSE website has proper guidance.
Try to deal with the facts, and don't get over anxious about what will probably never happen.
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ks! i feel your pain! something like this happened to me a while ago Twice! i still don't know the answer but all i say is the guys SCUM!
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When employing, use a decent payroll company as they know all the rules and regs regarding dismissal,proper procedures etc.
Anyone who needs a decent payroll company I m happy to pass details, this firm will do payroll for one employee or 500 employes. just email me
Mr B
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This forum has had a wee bit of unjustified criticism lately, so I would just like to say thanks for all opinions / advice on this thread, it has been both helpfull and much appreciated.
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Sack him immediately. Before he has run to over a year - send him a dismissal letter. Explain why he has been dismissed. Send it recorded delivery and keep a copy. Ignore text messages and the like from him. Seek legal advice.
We get 2 years nowadays to sack without them being able to claim unfair dismissal.
Still sack him.
If he wants to take it to court let him.
Chances are he won't get anywhere.
Make sure you document everything about him tho. Go back retrospectively over the past year and write down and date any examples of him not being an ideal employee. Any experience of him being dishonest should be noted, however small.
The fact that he don't turn in for work for 2 weeks and disinterested contact you is enough for you to reasonably assume that he'd quit without notice.
Send him his p45 signed for delivery as suggested
Good luck. It'll be fine :)
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We get 2 years nowadays to sack without them being able to claim unfair dismissal.
I may be wrong but I think that came into force in April 2013 so is only valid for employment commencing after that date.
Edit: I stand corrected it was 2012 :D
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Even with no formal contract in place it would be considered that he was an employee. With regard to statutory sick pay he wouldn't be eligible for this as he didn't notify you within 7 days (see HMRC website: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/employee/statutory-pay/ssp-overview.htm). If he has had no warnings prior to this incident I would issue a written warning stating that he went off sick with no notice on (date), he didn't make any attempt to contact you for 2 weeks and first contact was on X when he requested sick pay. You do not pay company sick pay as as he did not follow the correct procedure for statutory sick pay he is ineligable to receive this (find a SSP1 form on HMRC website, fill this in to say he isn't eligable and sent with the written warning). The correct procedure is that he must inform you by (either your own time limit or the 7 days indicated by HMRC) and that he should have filled in an SC2 form. Tell him this is his last warning and any further behaviour will result in a final warning which may lead to dismissal.
I'd also recommend getting a company procedures handbook in place asap. ACAS has a template which is really good, just fill in your details and amend as you need to. If you need any further help drop me an email.
It's unlikely the guy will take it further, you can `get shot` within a year with pretty much no problem but it's always best to make sure you have to correct paperwork in the background just in case.
Good luck.
Dawn
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Update: I phoned ACAS today and following their advice I am now going to terminate the employment of employee, giving one weeks notice, all holiday entitlement has already been paid. He can't go to tribunal as he hasn't been employed for 2 years by me. I phoned employee to tell him of my decision, and that the decision was based on him not informing me he was going to be absent from work, and he seemed ok with it. I think it's now unlikely he will try to pull a fast one as I gave him other dates that he failed to turn up for work, he also agreed that I told him to carry only the amount of water he felt comfortable carrying. I now believe this will be the end of the matter. Thanks folks ;)
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Update: I phoned ACAS today and following their advice I am now going to terminate the employment of employee, giving one weeks notice, all holiday entitlement has already been paid. He can't go to tribunal as he hasn't been employed for 2 years by me. I phoned employee to tell him of my decision, and that the decision was based on him not informing me he was going to be absent from work, and he seemed ok with it. I think it's now unlikely he will try to pull a fast one as I gave him other dates that he failed to turn up for work, he also agreed that I told him to carry only the amount of water he felt comfortable carrying. I now believe this will be the end of the matter. Thanks folks ;)
Good work!
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Contact acas you will get free help and advise you pay nothing for there help he will be be advised to do the same ,it will take around 2 weeks for them to contact you they are whats called the middle man arbitrator I employed a good friend for 3 years we had a argument over holidays he told me to stuff the job.Even thow it was not my fualt I still had to pay hime 1 weeks wages for every year he worked The law has changed since june/2013 verbal contract are the same as written by the way
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Send the recorded letter in a parcel/small box that way if he is not home the post office calling card will say parcel rather than letter and he will definitely collect through curiosity
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I put a thread on here a while ago about Peninsula employment law company. I was advised not to use them, mainly down to the cost. However, I THOROUGHLY did my homework and signed up with them anyway. Cost is not a major factor when it comes to your business. Protecting your business is worth every penny, including the money I will be spending with Peninsula. I thought I ran two professional companies before, they have opened my eyes to see I was falling way short though.
I took on my first employee in April 2013. I didn't know I was legally obliged to provide him with a contract within 6 weeks of the beginning of his employment. Peninsula have now drawn up a bespoke 42 page contract for each of my companies, covering a plethora of subjects such as holiday pay, how to dismiss LEGALLY, mobile phone, alcohol, drug, vehicle, anti-bribery policies and a whole lot more. I KNOW that providing I play it by the book, I am now covered in every way. My employees are now protected in every way from me abusing them as an employer too, so it is excellent for both parties. My lads all signed their contracts last week, no problem.
Is Peninsula's service cheap? No. But they offer excellent add-on services for employers and employees too. If this sort of thing happens to me, I have signed, written procedures in place now. I know how to play it exactly and my employees know the consequences of each breach of our company rule handbook.
I hope you get the resolution you need to this mate. Peninsula will also offer you free advice about this if you need anymore. Am I on commission for them? No. Do I work for them? No. I'm just a very happy client of theirs who now knows where I need to tweak my businesses to cover EVERYONE in the company. ;D
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I put a thread on here a while ago about Peninsula employment law company. I was advised not to use them, mainly down to the cost. However, I THOROUGHLY did my homework and signed up with them anyway. Cost is not a major factor when it comes to your business. Protecting your business is worth every penny, including the money I will be spending with Peninsula. I thought I ran two professional companies before, they have opened my eyes to see I was falling way short though.
I took on my first employee in April 2013. I didn't know I was legally obliged to provide him with a contract within 6 weeks of the beginning of his employment. Peninsula have now drawn up a bespoke 42 page contract for each of my companies, covering a plethora of subjects such as holiday pay, how to dismiss LEGALLY, mobile phone, alcohol, drug, vehicle, anti-bribery policies and a whole lot more. I KNOW that providing I play it by the book, I am now covered in every way. My employees are now protected in every way from me abusing them as an employer too, so it is excellent for both parties. My lads all signed their contracts last week, no problem.
Is Peninsula's service cheap? No. But they offer excellent add-on services for employers and employees too. If this sort of thing happens to me, I have signed, written procedures in place now. I know how to play it exactly and my employees know the consequences of each breach of our company rule handbook.
I hope you get the resolution you need to this mate. Peninsula will also offer you free advice about this if you need anymore. Am I on commission for them? No. Do I work for them? No. I'm just a very happy client of theirs who now knows where I need to tweak my businesses to cover EVERYONE in the company. ;D
you can get an employee's handbook such as your 42 page from recommendations off the ACAS website. it's all very standard stuff. it has to be, it's based on the law.
the trouble i have found with firms like peninsula is they have a tendency to cover you, so long as you follow their interpretation of the law to the letter. they always are very risk averse in their assessment of the situation. IMHO this is not always the best advice for the business owner. it is so easy to get bogged down in formal procedures with this type of advice and get distracted from running your business.
i have found it much better to use a freelance human resources professional who will offer me advice such as how to get rid of an employee as quick as possible leaving them little opportunity for comeback. they are much more able to read between the lines and tell you what your likely to get away with.
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I put a thread on here a while ago about Peninsula employment law company. I was advised not to use them, mainly down to the cost. However, I THOROUGHLY did my homework and signed up with them anyway. Cost is not a major factor when it comes to your business. Protecting your business is worth every penny, including the money I will be spending with Peninsula. I thought I ran two professional companies before, they have opened my eyes to see I was falling way short though.
They wouldn't be in buisness if they couldn't convince you that you're falling way short.
I took on my first employee in April 2013
;D ;D
Anyone thinking of using Peninsula would be well advised to research them well before deciding if they want to use them.
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I put a thread on here a while ago about Peninsula employment law company. I was advised not to use them, mainly down to the cost. However, I THOROUGHLY did my homework and signed up with them anyway. Cost is not a major factor when it comes to your business. Protecting your business is worth every penny, including the money I will be spending with Peninsula. I thought I ran two professional companies before, they have opened my eyes to see I was falling way short though.
I took on my first employee in April 2013. I didn't know I was legally obliged to provide him with a contract within 6 weeks of the beginning of his employment. Peninsula have now drawn up a bespoke 42 page contract for each of my companies, covering a plethora of subjects such as holiday pay, how to dismiss LEGALLY, mobile phone, alcohol, drug, vehicle, anti-bribery policies and a whole lot more. I KNOW that providing I play it by the book, I am now covered in every way. My employees are now protected in every way from me abusing them as an employer too, so it is excellent for both parties. My lads all signed their contracts last week, no problem.
Is Peninsula's service cheap? No. But they offer excellent add-on services for employers and employees too. If this sort of thing happens to me, I have signed, written procedures in place now. I know how to play it exactly and my employees know the consequences of each breach of our company rule handbook.
I hope you get the resolution you need to this mate. Peninsula will also offer you free advice about this if you need anymore. Am I on commission for them? No. Do I work for them? No. I'm just a very happy client of theirs who now knows where I need to tweak my businesses to cover EVERYONE in the company. ;D
you can get an employee's handbook such as your 42 page from recommendations off the ACAS website. it's all very standard stuff. it has to be, it's based on the law.
the trouble i have found with firms like peninsula is they have a tendency to cover you, so long as you follow their interpretation of the law to the letter. they always are very risk averse in their assessment of the situation. IMHO this is not always the best advice for the business owner. it is so easy to get bogged down in formal procedures with this type of advice and get distracted from running your business.
i have found it much better to use a freelance human resources professional who will offer me advice such as how to get rid of an employee as quick as possible leaving them little opportunity for comeback. they are much more able to read between the lines and tell you what your likely to get away with.
Peninsula recommend ACAS alongside their services. Like I say, for me, I think it's value. But this isn't about me and peninsula, I only mentioned it in relation to the OP's situation. Peninsula or someone like that would have guided him through the situation legally, 24/7/365.
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I put a thread on here a while ago about Peninsula employment law company. I was advised not to use them, mainly down to the cost. However, I THOROUGHLY did my homework and signed up with them anyway. Cost is not a major factor when it comes to your business. Protecting your business is worth every penny, including the money I will be spending with Peninsula. I thought I ran two professional companies before, they have opened my eyes to see I was falling way short though.
They wouldn't be in buisness if they couldn't convince you that you're falling way short.
I took on my first employee in April 2013
;D ;D
Anyone thinking of using Peninsula would be well advised to research them well before deciding if they want to use them.
They could only convince me I was falling short because I was. I do not feel like I have been duped.
Not sure why it's funny I took on my first employee in April, I've been subbing out for about 12 years.
Like I said, I did research Peninsula before climbing on board with them.
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Regards Peninsula (sure i posted this before some where), i love this quote...
"they are to employee relations what Wonga are to sensible financial management"
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187583.html#Reviews
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Regards Peninsula (sure i posted this before some where), i love this quote...
"they are to employee relations what Wonga are to sensible financial management"
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187583.html#Reviews
That is funny
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Regards Peninsula (sure i posted this before some where), i love this quote...
"they are to employee relations what Wonga are to sensible financial management"
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187583.html#Reviews
That is funny
You won't think it is when you know they'll also sort out your CRB for ya !! ;D ;D
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Regards Peninsula (sure i posted this before some where), i love this quote...
"they are to employee relations what Wonga are to sensible financial management"
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187583.html#Reviews
That is funny
You won't think it is when you know they'll also sort out your CRB for ya !! ;D ;D
Lols. Get you finding a sense of humour. ;D
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You won't think it is when you know they'll also sort out your CRB for ya !! ;D ;D
Lols. Get you finding a sense of humour. ;D
I've always had one. Just depends upon which side of the fence you're sitting ;D
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What I really don't get is, that if you had no paperwork for him whatsoever, no trace on your books for paying him (just write it as earning less) and you payed him in cash, no texts or calls discussing business; what proof is there that you ever worked with him? I'd just say no idea who he is, and that's the end of that. You'd have to be silly to admit to the tribunal that you had an informal contract. Your word against his. Case closed.
Window cleaning is typically a self employed persons business. I have lads working WITH me, not FOR me.
TBH there is no middle ground with WC. You're either very small (one or two of you) or you go very big (massive commercial jobs and employed staff).
Not worth the money for anything in between.
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What I really don't get is, that if you had no paperwork for him whatsoever, no trace on your books for paying him (just write it as earning less) and you payed him in cash, no texts or calls discussing business; what proof is there that you ever worked with him? I'd just say no idea who he is, and that's the end of that. You'd have to be silly to admit to the tribunal that you had an informal contract. Your word against his. Case closed.
Window cleaning is typically a self employed persons business. I have lads working WITH me, not FOR me.
TBH there is no middle ground with WC. You're either very small (one or two of you) or you go very big (massive commercial jobs and employed staff).
Not worth the money for anything in between.
If they don't run their own business (in other words work for themselves when not doing work for yourself) then what your
doing is illegal.
You cant be self employed and get paid a wage from another person, you can do subcontract work for another window cleaner
at an agreed price but you must prove that you also have other work on your books.
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What I really don't get is, that if you had no paperwork for him whatsoever, no trace on your books for paying him (just write it as earning less) and you payed him in cash, no texts or calls discussing business; what proof is there that you ever worked with him? I'd just say no idea who he is, and that's the end of that. You'd have to be silly to admit to the tribunal that you had an informal contract. Your word against his. Case closed.
Window cleaning is typically a self employed persons business. I have lads working WITH me, not FOR me.
TBH there is no middle ground with WC. You're either very small (one or two of you) or you go very big (massive commercial jobs and employed staff).
Not worth the money for anything in between.
If they don't run their own business (in other words work for themselves when not doing work for yourself) then what your
doing is illegal.
You cant be self employed and get paid a wage from another person, you can do subcontract work for another window cleaner
at an agreed price but you must prove that you also have other work on your books.
Thanks Sean. I meant more in terms of someone like this guy who is out to screw his "employer". If i faced someone like that, and there was no written evidence, i'd be saying i don't know who this man is. Cant play fair with people like that.
Anyhow, subcontracting is the way forward until ya can afford it. I wouldn't pay an hourly rate anyway. Just an agreed price for a section of houses. "i have X houses, will you clean them for X money", yes, deal. sound.