Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: advanced on December 23, 2013, 04:05:00 pm
-
bought phoenix 25 9 months ago and allready top section is spinning , it really hacks me off when you pay
so much money and it fails in such a short period , i would not mind if i used this pole just for top windows but for doing bottoms its very important that the top section holds. i tried lacquering it , works for a few days but then wears down again.
i may go back to gardeners poles as they have smart clamps , any one recommend them .
thanks
-
Did you complain?
I'm sure they have improved the clamps recently so worth giving them a call and let us know what they say.
-
The problem we have is the whole industry is still relatively new and majority of items are not totally for just window cleaning . A lot are air components , fishing poles etc , it's getting there
-
If you look after a pole, the clamps wouldn't spin.
Case in point is that I bought two SLX's at the same time, one for Wor Lass and one for myself.
Wor Lass's pole top section spins, mine doesn't. If at any stage any of my pole spins, I tighten the clamp so it doesn't. Wor Lass didn't and by working with it when it was spinning ground down her first section. If she took the few seconds to adjust the clamp, this wouldn't have happened.
-
Advance,
Sorry to hear you are having issues. It looks like a first run clamp from the tooling, this has since been revamped. I'm surprised you've had this long without issue, it usually happened quite quickly. It will simply be the clamps that need renewing and it will be like day one.
We can change over the clamps no problem, the pole sections will be fine. I can sort out replacement clamps being sent out or arrange a pick up and bring back to base with a couple of days turn around?
-
If you look after a pole, the clamps wouldn't spin.
Case in point is that I bought two SLX's at the same time, one for Wor Lass and one for myself.
Wor Lass's pole top section spins, mine doesn't. If at any stage any of my pole spins, I tighten the clamp so it doesn't. Wor Lass didn't and by working with it when it was spinning ground down her first section. If she took the few seconds to adjust the clamp, this wouldn't have happened.
Great point Tosh, I'm sick of telling the boys the same thing.
-
Use Joiners Mate glue , good for the dreaded clamp spin
-
hj stephen i bought my pole from the full clean centre in sutton surrey can i go though them to get it revamped.
-
Regarding Gardiners clamps, I think they are great. Never had an issue with the original ones, in fact I've always been happy with there clamps as they are very small and make for a very efficient pole, (extended length compared to closed and overall weight). The smart clamps though are great, no matter how much wear on a section they grip, I've got them installed on a couple of extreme poles that are over 2 1/2 years old and yet the poles feel like new even though they look far from new.
Simon.
-
word of warning - the sutton guys told me to CUT the pole instead of actually cutting the clamp with a hacksaw very carefully. I cut a few sections on my pole and its never been the same again. I have had one section replaced but I basically need a whole new pole. Dont CUT your pole, worst advice I ever had....!!!
-
word of warning - the sutton guys told me to CUT the pole instead of actually cutting the clamp with a hacksaw very carefully. I cut a few sections on my pole and its never been the same again. I have had one section replaced but I basically need a whole new pole. Dont CUT your pole, worst advice I ever had....!!!
It's best to cut through the clamp, I was a bit hesitant to do this, in fear of going though the carbon, but gently does it, and check now and then whether you've gone trough, crack it open with a screwdriver and it comes off very easily. Alex G has got a great video on how to do this, I'd imagine it would apply roughly to a Phoenix as well, but best to check with Stephen F.
-
I have to say, I tested both and, I was impressed by the phoenix full carbon pole. I chose the SLX because a) it worked out cheaper and 2) the clamps on the SLX WILL make the pole last longer. Side on / traverse clamps will increase the life of a pole, it is obvious when you think about it.
-
word of warning - the sutton guys told me to CUT the pole instead of actually cutting the clamp with a hacksaw very carefully. I cut a few sections on my pole and its never been the same again. I have had one section replaced but I basically need a whole new pole. Dont CUT your pole, worst advice I ever had....!!!
If you cut each section off by say 30mm the pole will close (nest) exactly the same as it did when it was new. The only difference is that it will be slightly shorter in both open and closed positions.
-
thanks for comments guys might try gardeners pole as i do not need this hassle if i can avoid it
-
word of warning - the sutton guys told me to CUT the pole instead of actually cutting the clamp with a hacksaw very carefully. I cut a few sections on my pole and its never been the same again. I have had one section replaced but I basically need a whole new pole. Dont CUT your pole, worst advice I ever had....!!!
If you cut each section off by say 30mm the pole will close (nest) exactly the same as it did when it was new. The only difference is that it will be slightly shorter in both open and closed positions.
I did this and my pole is basically stuffed, after a month or so the ends will start splitting. I have 3 sections that are now splitting and I will have to replace the pole. you have been warned. just cut the clamps not the pole...!!!
-
hj stephen i bought my pole from the full clean centre in sutton surrey can i go though them to get it revamped.
Yes, they can then contact us and we can take it from there.
-
Here a link for reference on changing a clamp, pretty much applies to most poles on the market
http://youtu.be/9NWsxD0np7w
-
I have to say, I tested both and, I was impressed by the phoenix full carbon pole. I chose the SLX because a) it worked out cheaper and 2) the clamps on the SLX WILL make the pole last longer. Side on / traverse clamps will increase the life of a pole, it is obvious when you think about it.
Stuart, actually the opposite of this is true, sideways/transverse clamps will wear a lot quicker as the clamp ears tend be fixed with little room to open. This causes the clamp to grind against the section when being used as has been noted (black hands with in a short of time of use)
Of course if dirt it left on the pole to build up and grind away this will reduce the life of the pole drastically.
-
Sorry Stephen but we will have to agree to disagree on that.
The side on design allows more movement for the clamp. This means that even if the pole does wear the clamp is still effective.
-
I have to say, I tested both and, I was impressed by the phoenix full carbon pole. I chose the SLX because a) it worked out cheaper and 2) the clamps on the SLX WILL make the pole last longer. Side on / traverse clamps will increase the life of a pole, it is obvious when you think about it.
Stuart, actually the opposite of this is true, sideways/transverse clamps will wear a lot quicker as the clamp ears tend be fixed with little room to open. This causes the clamp to grind against the section when being used as has been noted (black hands with in a short of time of use)
Of course if dirt it left on the pole to build up and grind away this will reduce the life of the pole drastically.
In the real world that just isn't true either to be honest. Gardiners new smart clamps will prolong the life of a pole compared to vertical.
Don't really think there is any argument about that.
-
I have to say, I tested both and, I was impressed by the phoenix full carbon pole. I chose the SLX because a) it worked out cheaper and 2) the clamps on the SLX WILL make the pole last longer. Side on / traverse clamps will increase the life of a pole, it is obvious when you think about it.
Stuart, actually the opposite of this is true, sideways/transverse clamps will wear a lot quicker as the clamp ears tend be fixed with little room to open. This causes the clamp to grind against the section when being used as has been noted (black hands with in a short of time of use)
Of course if dirt it left on the pole to build up and grind away this will reduce the life of the pole drastically.
The smart clamps open further as they levers are sprung loaded. So therefore they will wear the pole slower
-
I think Alex has shot himself in the foot! ;D ;D ;D
I've put the new gardiner clamps on my 3 and 5 year old SLX's and whereas I was considering replacing them this year now I can see myself carrying on with them for another couple of years each!
-
i dont ag ree i might go back to gardeners poles for there new clamp systems
-
I think Alex has shot himself in the foot! ;D ;D ;D
I've put the new gardiner clamps on my 3 and 5 year old SLX's and whereas I was considering replacing them this year now I can see myself carrying on with them for another couple of years each!
Same here, on my MK1 SL-X! It's in storage as my backup pole, it seems a waste not to use it, but I'm spoiled with my Xtreme. They are very good clamps indeed.
-
I think Alex has shot himself in the foot! ;D ;D ;D
I've put the new gardiner clamps on my 3 and 5 year old SLX's and whereas I was considering replacing them this year now I can see myself carrying on with them for another couple of years each!
It’s all about credibility. Marketing is not only to sell your products today, but also to condition future purchasers.
Overseas in South Africa, Makita Power Tools got their product into the hands of high school boys for use in their wood working classes 25 years ago. It was their belief at brand awareness would stick with the youngsters when they grew up and they would remain brand loyal. In fact it was deemed such a good idea that Bosch copied their example.
Over in the UK Vauxhall do some incredible deals on Corsa’s for driving schools. It was estimated that a large majority of learner drivers who were women bought a Corsa after passing their test as it was the car they learnt to drive in and were comfortable with. The figures for men were lower though.
I remember Facelift slagging off the new smart clamps of Gardiners about a year ago as theirs were so much better. However, we now hear about Facelift’s supplying new clamps to stop the sections spinning; they are careful to not call them upgraded clamps I see.
Will you buy your next pole from Gardiners? I would say that it’s about a 99% possibility that you will. Extending the life of your 2 poles by some discounted upgraded clamps has sold you on their poles in a couple of years’ time. It’s already a done deal. What they have also done is to take the temptation of a potential new buy from another company out of the picture.
Smart clamps = smart marketing.
-
Absolutely brilliant post.
-
Plus one that
-
I think Alex has shot himself in the foot! ;D ;D ;D
I've put the new gardiner clamps on my 3 and 5 year old SLX's and whereas I was considering replacing them this year now I can see myself carrying on with them for another couple of years each!
It’s all about credibility. Marketing is not only to sell your products today, but also to condition future purchasers.
Overseas in South Africa, Makita Power Tools got their product into the hands of high school boys for use in their wood working classes 25 years ago. It was their belief at brand awareness would stick with the youngsters when they grew up and they would remain brand loyal. In fact it was deemed such a good idea that Bosch copied their example.
Over in the UK Vauxhall do some incredible deals on Corsa’s for driving schools. It was estimated that a large majority of learner drivers who were women bought a Corsa after passing their test as it was the car they learnt to drive in and were comfortable with. The figures for men were lower though.
I remember Facelift slagging off the new smart clamps of Gardiners about a year ago as theirs were so much better. However, we now hear about Facelift’s supplying new clamps to stop the sections spinning; they are careful to not call them upgraded clamps I see.
Will you buy your next pole from Gardiners? I would say that it’s about a 99% possibility that you will. Extending the life of your 2 poles by some discounted upgraded clamps has sold you on their poles in a couple of years’ time. It’s already a done deal. What they have also done is to take the temptation pf a potential new buy from another company out of the picture.
Smart clamps = smart marketing.
Well said Spruce, Well said.
-
I don't like the new gardiner clamps I find I'm adjusting them more than the old ones :-\
-
I don't like the new gardiner clamps I find I'm adjusting them more than the old ones :-\
Contact Alex and he should send you out an alternative set of nuts and bolts for the clamps (ones with a better gripping thread).
I found they needed adjusting a lot but they are much better with the new bolts. They still tend to flop when open though; but if I tighten them enough to stop this happening, as Alex suggests, I find they work loose quite quickly.
IMO smart clamps a good idea but far from perfect
-
I don't like the new Gardiner clamps I find I'm adjusting them more than the old ones :-\
Hi SB
Is this on an upgraded pole or a new pole?
There will be a solution to this - drop me an email on alex@agardiner.co.cuk and I can arrange for a set of our new levers sets to be sent out which will prevent them needing constant adjustment.
-
I don't like the new gardiner clamps I find I'm adjusting them more than the old ones :-\
Contact Alex and he should send you out an alternative set of nuts and bolts for the clamps (ones with a better gripping thread).
I found they needed adjusting a lot but they are much better with the new bolts. They still tend to flop when open though; but if I tighten them enough to stop this happening, as Alex suggests, I find they work loose quite quickly.
IMO smart clamps a good idea but far from perfect
Glad the new bolts are working better for you. If you drop me an email on alex@agardiner.co.uk I should be able to sort you out a set of new lever sets which will not work loose at all with use.
-
Hi Alex if i buy a new pole will it have the clamps and levers you just suggested.
-
Hi Alex if i buy a new pole will it have the clamps and levers you just suggested.
They may, but this will depend on which size or type you buy - most of our current stock do not have these new bolts as the majority of users do not experience any issues with them and the current set-up works well. However for the few that do have issues we have these new versions, which in time will gradually become standard and indeed are on some of the sizes already (CLX18, CLX4, Xtreme25). Anyone that does experience such an adjustment issue simply needs to contact us and we can sort this for you.
Drop me an email (alex@agardiner.co.uk) if you would like more details on this.
-
I have some spinning issues with the new clamps (that I got as a upgrade)
will these new bolts stop this then ? if so I will send you my details.
-
I don't like the new Gardiner clamps I find I'm adjusting them more than the old ones :-\
Hi SB
Is this on an upgraded pole or a new pole?
There will be a solution to this - drop me an email on alex@agardiner.co.cuk and I can arrange for a set of our new levers sets to be sent out which will prevent them needing constant adjustment. :)
Hi Alex
It was on an upgraded extreme I bought the clamps the day you released them...I will drop you an email.
Thanks :)
-
It’s all about credibility. Marketing is not only to sell your products today, but also to condition future purchasers.
Overseas in South Africa, Makita Power Tools got their product into the hands of high school boys for use in their wood working classes 25 years ago. It was their belief at brand awareness would stick with the youngsters when they grew up and they would remain brand loyal. In fact it was deemed such a good idea that Bosch copied their example.
Over in the UK Vauxhall do some incredible deals on Corsa’s for driving schools. It was estimated that a large majority of learner drivers who were women bought a Corsa after passing their test as it was the car they learnt to drive in and were comfortable with. The figures for men were lower though.
I remember Facelift slagging off the new smart clamps of Gardiners about a year ago as theirs were so much better. However, we now hear about Facelift’s supplying new clamps to stop the sections spinning; they are careful to not call them upgraded clamps I see.
Will you buy your next pole from Gardiners? I would say that it’s about a 99% possibility that you will. Extending the life of your 2 poles by some discounted upgraded clamps has sold you on their poles in a couple of years’ time. It’s already a done deal. What they have also done is to take the temptation of a potential new buy from another company out of the picture.
Smart clamps = smart marketing.
Spot on.
Also, Alex Gardiner takes the time to come on these forums and apart from providing easy customer service, it keeps the name Gardiners in our minds.
As well as that, he's a perfect diplomat.
Can't go wrong really with that approach.
-
I have some spinning issues with the new clamps (that I got as a upgrade)
will these new bolts stop this then ? if so I will send you my details.
If you are referring to the lever spinning then setting the levers up correctly will usually sort this out - tighten the bolt until the clamp just holds the section below and then tighten by another full turn (360°) and then another half turn (180°). This will then hold the levers in the right place.
If for some reason the bolts need re-tightening during use then it may be that you need these new bolts/levers. If so drop me an email.
-
It’s all about credibility. Marketing is not only to sell your products today, but also to condition future purchasers.
Overseas in South Africa, Makita Power Tools got their product into the hands of high school boys for use in their wood working classes 25 years ago. It was their belief at brand awareness would stick with the youngsters when they grew up and they would remain brand loyal. In fact it was deemed such a good idea that Bosch copied their example.
Over in the UK Vauxhall do some incredible deals on Corsa’s for driving schools. It was estimated that a large majority of learner drivers who were women bought a Corsa after passing their test as it was the car they learnt to drive in and were comfortable with. The figures for men were lower though.
I remember Facelift slagging off the new smart clamps of Gardiners about a year ago as theirs were so much better. However, we now hear about Facelift’s supplying new clamps to stop the sections spinning; they are careful to not call them upgraded clamps I see.
Will you buy your next pole from Gardiners? I would say that it’s about a 99% possibility that you will. Extending the life of your 2 poles by some discounted upgraded clamps has sold you on their poles in a couple of years’ time. It’s already a done deal. What they have also done is to take the temptation of a potential new buy from another company out of the picture.
Smart clamps = smart marketing.
Spruce, interesting post but clear up some facts... I don't think anyone at Facelift has ever 'slagged' off Gardiners clamps or anyone else's for that matter. Nor has anyone said that 'they are so much better than xxx'. In fact I don't even think 'smart' clamps were out a year ago? It is all down to preference on what people prefer to use, it's an individual matter on which is 'better'.
People will always try out different poles/tools when they need replacing regardless of any marketing involved.
-
You implied mark Munro only preferred gardiners poles because Alex gave him a brush to test out. :D
That's kind of slagging someone off.
:D
-
>Ross
Foxy and "perfect diplomat" doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
-
>Ross
Foxy and "perfect diplomat" doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
;D
-
You implied mark Munro only preferred gardiners poles because Alex gave him a brush to test out. :D
That's kind of slagging someone off.
:D
Not really.....as it was a joke. Any how that would be slagging Mark off and not anyone's clamps!!! ;D ;D ;D
-
My bolts with the loctite on still make the clamp/lever twist 180degree the other way . Makes operation awkward and fiddilely but I can work with it like this .
-
My bolts with the loctite on still make the clamp/lever twist 180degree the other way . Makes operation awkward and fiddilely but I can work with it like this .
Kempy. If they still twist you need to nip them up some more, you might think you are tightening them up too much but you are not
-
I have some spinning issues with the new clamps (that I got as a upgrade)
will these new bolts stop this then ? if so I will send you my details.
If you are referring to the lever spinning then setting the levers up correctly will usually sort this out - tighten the bolt until the clamp just holds the section below and then tighten by another full turn (360°) and then another half turn (180°). This will then hold the levers in the right place.
If for some reason the bolts need re-tightening during use then it may be that you need these new bolts/levers. If so drop me an email.
Its the need to re-tightening them through out the day that im having problems with.
I'll email you.
-
It’s all about credibility. Marketing is not only to sell your products today, but also to condition future purchasers.
Overseas in South Africa, Makita Power Tools got their product into the hands of high school boys for use in their wood working classes 25 years ago. It was their belief at brand awareness would stick with the youngsters when they grew up and they would remain brand loyal. In fact it was deemed such a good idea that Bosch copied their example.
Over in the UK Vauxhall do some incredible deals on Corsa’s for driving schools. It was estimated that a large majority of learner drivers who were women bought a Corsa after passing their test as it was the car they learnt to drive in and were comfortable with. The figures for men were lower though.
I remember Facelift slagging off the new smart clamps of Gardiners about a year ago as theirs were so much better. However, we now hear about Facelift’s supplying new clamps to stop the sections spinning; they are careful to not call them upgraded clamps I see.
Will you buy your next pole from Gardiners? I would say that it’s about a 99% possibility that you will. Extending the life of your 2 poles by some discounted upgraded clamps has sold you on their poles in a couple of years’ time. It’s already a done deal. What they have also done is to take the temptation of a potential new buy from another company out of the picture.
Smart clamps = smart marketing.
Spruce, interesting post but clear up some facts... I don't think anyone at Facelift has ever 'slagged' off Gardiners clamps or anyone else's for that matter. Nor has anyone said that 'they are so much better than xxx'. In fact I don't even think 'smart' clamps were out a year ago? It is all down to preference on what people prefer to use, it's an individual matter on which is 'better'.
People will always try out different poles/tools when they need replacing regardless of any marketing involved.
Let me recall the video done at Van Fest by your young Facelift representative.
When describing the poles to Wolfie your rep said.
“First things first on features. This clamp is not a transverse clamp for very good reasons. These levers are extremely robust, extremely thick, its left handed and right handed, one finger no problem at all. Awesome breaking system … clamps that will not trap my fingers in. These clamps will never catch on a gutter.. Transverse clamps have a gap between each single one so you can catch it on a gutter…”
Whilst Gardiners was not mentioned by name, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know which company it was directed against – your main opposition.
We all saw the video where the new Phoenix was compared with an old worn Gardiner CLX pole. The purpose of that video was to compare the superiority of your clamps with that of Gardiners, so yes, Facelift was slagging the Gardiner product off.
Marketing does feature as a priority in all big business as it does have a bearing on purchasers. If it didn’t, advertising wouldn’t be necessary.
Why did Facelift attend Van Fest in 2012 long before your poles were officially released? To promote your product, simple. You wanted to create an interest and you did that with your promotions – it’s called marketing and a very important aspect of it. You needed to give buyers enough reason to hold back from buying an opposition product in favour of yours to be ‘eminently’ released. Why spend the money on these marketing avenues, if, as you suggest, "people will always try out different poles/tools when they need replacing regardless of any marketing involved."
I doubt anyone would have been particularly interested in buying a Phoenix if you hadn’t gone to the lengths you did by aggressively marketing your new product. After all, the Fusion pole is an example. The Phoenix arising from the ashes was the way it was expressed. I remember Mike being a little upset when I questioned the Phoenix name, as in my books, you were admitting your business wasn't good (the ashes) and this new comer would rise and change all that.
Hey! But I'm just a window cleaner; how would I know?
-
The gardiner new clamps are good for longevity of your pole , but the operation is awkward . I'm getting there , but if I tighten too much the lever will praise itself one , so I slacken off a little bit more etc , then it will work for awhile ok with no problems and then say 30 mins later or so it will work too loose so that when descending the pole I have to really look at the clamp and put it the right way round before closing but again .
The clamp all too often always managers to face the other way , I've had some loctite bolts sent but they don't rectify the problem at all .
However I cope with them and it's tedious but only takes a few seconds to readjust them . Still prefere my China Classic clamp/pole to use .
But the longevity of my old slx's I'm grateful for .
I have a 2012 25ft slx which has the old style clamps but these are coming to an end , I need to update these clamps but I'm not exactly impressed with the new style gardiner clamp in order to do it . For say a extra £30 for a upgrade that causes me a few tedious adjustments all the time doesn't tempt me .
Unless there's another upgrade/alternative to the upgraded ones on my 30ft slx .
Need to do something we've the 25ft slx as the old style clamps are starting to wear .
I've already glued them once or twice and lacquered the sections up
New clamps needed but ............
-
bought phoenix 25 9 months ago and allready top section is spinning , it really hacks me off when you pay
so much money and it fails in such a short period , i would not mind if i used this pole just for top windows but for doing bottoms its very important that the top section holds. i tried lacquering it , works for a few days but then wears down again.
i may go back to gardeners poles as they have smart clamps , any one recommend them .
thanks
Not sure if I've missed the point but Stephen Fox has offered to sort the problem for you. I think that's good customer service after 9 months...but perhaps that's just me!
-
bought phoenix 25 9 months ago and allready top section is spinning , it really hacks me off when you pay
so much money and it fails in such a short period , i would not mind if i used this pole just for top windows but for doing bottoms its very important that the top section holds. i tried lacquering it , works for a few days but then wears down again.
i may go back to gardeners poles as they have smart clamps , any one recommend them .
thanks
Not sure if I've missed the point but Stephen Fox has offered to sort the problem for you. I think that's good customer service after 9 months...but perhaps that's just me!
Robbo, you are right, that is good service. But even if Stephen sorts the problem out satisfactorily, it doesn't mean that Advanced still won't feel a bit miffed. Its just that where initially he had a problem which made him feel the way he did, now he will still feel that way but for a different reason - ie why did it happen so soon and the inconvenience of having to get it sorted. It makes no difference whether the reason why he is a bit miffed is self inflicted or not for example.
Its no different to Kempy and his issue with his upgraded clamps he can't get on with. No matter what Alex does from a goodwll point of view, he will not solve the issue he has and make Kempy happy in my view. I think that Alex has even suggested that Kempy send his pole back to Gardiners for inspection, but I may have my wires crossed on this one. (There is certainly someone on one of the Forums that Alex has asked for the pole to be returned to him which still hasn't happened.)
So the hot potato is just how far a supplier goes goodwill wise spending time and money on trying to solve the problem. Take Advance as an example. If he had said that the thinks that the Facelift poles are c..p and he will never buy another and he will tell all his friends how c..p they are, why would Stephen bother to spent time and money on him? He wouldn't as it would be a case of 'throwing good money after bad.'
Without upsetting Advance, it could also be that the problem has occurred through operator error or neglect. Tosh highlighted this with the poles that he and his missus uses. Both bought at the same time and the same poles, hers is in a state where his isn't, even although his has done more work than hers. As Tosh says, she just uses it and never maintains it, adjusting clamps when necessary, cleaning it, etc. In her case failure isn't the result of bad materials or faulty workmanship so isn't truely a warranty issue. If any repairs were carried out by the supplier FOC, then it's done on a goodwill basis. A different case was a couple of users that experienced a broken adaptor at the top of their Phoenix pole within a short period of time. In that case each of those would be a warranty claim and the owner would have every right to feel a bit miffed.
Mark Munro has a how to video out on a repair he has done on his Facelift. His pole wasn't a year old but has seen some heavy useage. He didn't seem upset that his pole was slipping as he knew that it was due to the 'abuse' or punishment he had given it.
-
The gardiner new clamps are good for longevity of your pole , but the operation is awkward . I'm getting there , but if I tighten too much the lever will praise itself one , so I slacken off a little bit more etc , then it will work for awhile ok with no problems and then say 30 mins later or so it will work too loose so that when descending the pole I have to really look at the clamp and put it the right way round before closing but again .
The clamp all too often always managers to face the other way , I've had some loctite bolts sent but they don't rectify the problem at all .
However I cope with them and it's tedious but only takes a few seconds to readjust them . Still prefere my China Classic clamp/pole to use .
But the longevity of my old slx's I'm grateful for .
I have a 2012 25ft slx which has the old style clamps but these are coming to an end , I need to update these clamps but I'm not exactly impressed with the new style gardiner clamp in order to do it . For say a extra £30 for a upgrade that causes me a few tedious adjustments all the time doesn't tempt me .
Unless there's another upgrade/alternative to the upgraded ones on my 30ft slx .
Need to do something we've the 25ft slx as the old style clamps are starting to wear .
I've already glued them once or twice and lacquered the sections up
New clamps needed but ............
As you may have noted from my communication to others on the forum we do have new lever sets now that use a completely different locking mechanism - these have been brought out for the few clients that have an issue with the nylock bolts not holding in the correct place. I can send some of these out to you to replace those you currently have, but with your past history and posting on this issue I would personally prefer to reiterate my offer (which Spruce has recalled) to have this 4 year old pole back and check it over and set the clamps up with these new lever sets myself. This way I can be exactly sure that it is working as intended despite it being a DIY upgrade.
You have my email if you would like us to arrange a collection of your pole and we can then get this sorted out.
-
We have done a clamp upgrade on the SLX25 my son uses. We bought it in 2008. At first we had a problem with the levers, but once we had learnt how to adjust them correctly, my son says they are the best. He loves this pole with its clamps.
He uses my CLX22 from time to time which still has the old style clamps and he never stops moaning about them.
-
Let me recall the video done at Van Fest by your young Facelift representative.
When describing the poles to Wolfie your rep said.
“First things first on features. This clamp is not a transverse clamp for very good reasons. These levers are extremely robust, extremely thick, its left handed and right handed, one finger no problem at all. Awesome breaking system … clamps that will not trap my fingers in. These clamps will never catch on a gutter.. Transverse clamps have a gap between each single one so you can catch it on a gutter…”
Whilst Gardiners was not mentioned by name, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know which company it was directed against – your main opposition.
We all saw the video where the new Phoenix was compared with an old worn Gardiner CLX pole. The purpose of that video was to compare the superiority of your clamps with that of Gardiners, so yes, Facelift was slagging the Gardiner product off.
Marketing does feature as a priority in all big business as it does have a bearing on purchasers. If it didn’t, advertising wouldn’t be necessary.
Why did Facelift attend Van Fest in 2012 long before your poles were officially released? To promote your product, simple. You wanted to create an interest and you did that with your promotions – it’s called marketing and a very important aspect of it. You needed to give buyers enough reason to hold back from buying an opposition product in favour of yours to be ‘eminently’ released. Why spend the money on these marketing avenues, if, as you suggest, "people will always try out different poles/tools when they need replacing regardless of any marketing involved."
I doubt anyone would have been particularly interested in buying a Phoenix if you hadn’t gone to the lengths you did by aggressively marketing your new product. After all, the Fusion pole is an example. The Phoenix arising from the ashes was the way it was expressed. I remember Mike being a little upset when I questioned the Phoenix name, as in my books, you were admitting your business wasn't good (the ashes) and this new comer would rise and change all that.
Hey! But I'm just a window cleaner; how would I know?
Spruce, once again there is a little adjustment to be made for the facts...
The comments Mike made are to do with transverse clamps, not another brand. Gardiners are far from the only brand to have these clamps. You interpret it how you like but in reality, it was not pointed at anyone in particular - we actually looked at making a pole with transverse clamps then realised that they are not the best solution for the job.
As for the video made, i think you are neglecting to mention it was in response to a Gardiner video attempting to 'slag off', as you put it, the brand new Phoenix range. It was simply highlighting points Alex had made and shedding light on the facts. I'm guessing you haven't seen that though? Alex took the video down pretty quickly..
I'm not sure Mike has ever been upset about anyone questioning the Phoenix name, infact calling it that was intentional, Facelift had a fantastic name but had got a bit old in the tooth with risk of it becoming a has-been. Calling the new range Phoenix, (apart from being a pretty cool name!) was for a reason - rising from the ashes as it has done.
That said your are right about marketing, you need to shout above the other market stalls to be noticed because it works. Personally, i think anyone who sticks to one brand, of a consumable is a little short sighted, i constantly try out different products for certain things as i know nothing is the be all and end all and i could be surprised by trying something new. Worst case i go back to what i liked best. :)
-
I knew power tools would get a mention...
-
Thanks for that Alex , if you want to send me the latest upgrade lever system out then I'd be grateful .
Seems strange to get a upgrade " upon a recent upgrade" if there was only a few of us with problems .
But hey ho ,
If I was to upgrade my 2012 25ft SLX ' would I get
a) the upgraded new clamps with bolts
b) the upgraded new clamps with the other additional loctite bolts - no improvement
Or
c) the LATEST UPGRADED CLAMPS with this latest LEVER SETS
Seems confusing , just don't want to purchase the first version of upgraded clamps if another upgrade has already superseded the initial one .
Does every new clamp upgrade now come with a new LEVER SET upgrade ?
Cheers anyway , much appreciated
-
Thanks for that Alex , if you want to send me the latest upgrade lever system out then I'd be grateful .
Seems strange to get a upgrade " upon a recent upgrade" if there was only a few of us with problems .
But hey ho ,
If I was to upgrade my 2012 25ft SLX ' would I get
a) the upgraded new clamps with bolts
b) the upgraded new clamps with the other additional loctite bolts - no improvement
Or
c) the LATEST UPGRADED CLAMPS with this latest LEVER SETS
Seems confusing , just don't want to purchase the first version of upgraded clamps if another upgrade has already superseded the initial one .
Does every new clamp upgrade now come with a new LEVER SET upgrade ?
Cheers anyway , much appreciated
Hi Kempy
We do have a policy of continual development so a product rarely stays static. I have a policy that if I have thought of an improvement I would like everyone to have it as quickly as possible. This can lead to minor changes year on year, which we do keep track of. If just 1 or 2 clients have an issue with something this can prompt me to look at ways of improving if I feel there is a benefit to all. With this latest 'tweak' I feel that there is a long term improvement even if the majority will not notice the difference.
If you were to purchase a Smart Clamp upgrade kit now then it would be of the latest specification.
With regard to your 2009 SLX30 that you have fitted the smart clamps to, I can certainly arrange for the latest levers sets to be sent out at no cost (as we will do for anyone that feels they need them). However if you felt that you could part company with it for just 4 days I would rather have it collected from you and examined in my workshop and then fit new lever sets and set it up as perfectly as it can be before returning it to you. This way I would be most happy about it performing to the best of its ability given its age. It is difficult to troubleshoot such things without the pole in front of me so if I had it back I could see exactly why it is not working as you would like it to. Could you email me and we can arrange this for you.
-
Thanks for that Alex , if you want to send me the latest upgrade lever system out then I'd be grateful .
Seems strange to get a upgrade " upon a recent upgrade" if there was only a few of us with problems .
But hey ho ,
If I was to upgrade my 2012 25ft SLX ' would I get
a) the upgraded new clamps with bolts
b) the upgraded new clamps with the other additional loctite bolts - no improvement
Or
c) the LATEST UPGRADED CLAMPS with this latest LEVER SETS
Seems confusing , just don't want to purchase the first version of upgraded clamps if another upgrade has already superseded the initial one .
Does every new clamp upgrade now come with a new LEVER SET upgrade ?
Cheers anyway , much appreciated
Hi Kempy
We do have a policy of continual development so a product rarely stays static. I have a policy that if I have thought of an improvement I would like everyone to have it as quickly as possible. This can lead to minor changes year on year, which we do keep track of. If just 1 or 2 clients have an issue with something this can prompt me to look at ways of improving if I feel there is a benefit to all. With this latest 'tweak' I feel that there is a long term improvement even if the majority will not notice the difference.
If you were to purchase a Smart Clamp upgrade kit now then it would be of the latest specification.
With regard to your 2009 SLX30 that you have fitted the smart clamps to, I can certainly arrange for the latest levers sets to be sent out at no cost (as we will do for anyone that feels they need them). However if you felt that you could part company with it for just 4 days I would rather have it collected from you and examined in my workshop and then fit new lever sets and set it up as perfectly as it can be before returning it to you. This way I would be most happy about it performing to the best of its ability given its age. It is difficult to troubleshoot such things without the pole in front of me so if I had it back I could see exactly why it is not working as you would like it to. Could you email me and we can arrange this for you.
you are too kind, i wasn't happy with 2 levers sets,i didn't ask anything,i bought them ;)
-
I'm happy to just have the lever sets sent no problem , and I'll purchase the 25ft slx new lever updated clamps at the same time , therefore postage all in one go .
Cheapest solution .
If you let your office girls know about this order in terms of me
1- buying the 25ft new smart LEVER upgraded clamps
2- 30ft slx LEVER Freebies thrown in .
3- Plus I need to buy the hard bristled CILL brush for facia cleaning with Quik loq socket on .
Be superb that , and be ok with me .postage all done on a one go
No need to send my 2009 slx pole back , it's used now occasionally , few times a day , and I've just about got the tightness bang on and the adjustments I just tolerate with and I'm ok with .
It is a 2009 pole but I do use others as well so since 2012 it wasn't used much at all .
Just I need it as and when and like I say it's better than it was , no need to mess about with postage etc
Anyway , it's lacquered up , and with your latest invention upgrade I'm sure it will improve it .
Cheers David kemp .
And in 2014 I will be posting nothing to do with this again .
We all need to move on .... Sorted .
If the new levers work that is .... ;D ;D
Cheers
-
Stephen I have a problem with the clamps as well and have had it for a while, can I get the upgraded clamps sent out to me. I bought the pole from Sure Clean Systems and I live in the Republic of Ireland.
Regards
Michael
-
I'm happy to just have the lever sets sent no problem , and I'll purchase the 25ft slx new lever updated clamps at the same time , therefore postage all in one go .
Cheapest solution .
If you let your office girls know about this order in terms of me
1- buying the 25ft new smart LEVER upgraded clamps
2- 30ft slx LEVER Freebies thrown in .
3- Plus I need to buy the hard bristled CILL brush for facia cleaning with Quik loq socket on .
Be superb that , and be ok with me .postage all done on a one go
No need to send my 2009 slx pole back , it's used now occasionally , few times a day , and I've just about got the tightness bang on and the adjustments I just tolerate with and I'm ok with .
It is a 2009 pole but I do use others as well so since 2012 it wasn't used much at all .
Just I need it as and when and like I say it's better than it was , no need to mess about with postage etc
Anyway , it's lacquered up , and with your latest invention upgrade I'm sure it will improve it .
Cheers David kemp .
And in 2014 I will be posting nothing to do with this again .
We all need to move on .... Sorted .
If the new levers work that is .... ;D ;D
Cheers
Email sent.
-
Hi Alex, just a quick question!
I bought an clx22 off your site the other day and wondered will it come with the latest clamps your talking about?
-
Hi Alex, just a quick question!
I bought an clx22 off your site the other day and wondered will it come with the latest clamps your talking about?
If it is the new smart clamps then yes these poles are fitted with them - these have been out since May 2013.
If you are referring to the latest lever sets then we are not currently fitting poles with these as standard. They are only being sent out to the few clients who have an issue. However if you would like, I can get the workshop to get some fitted for you.
-
hi Alex, i'll have whatever you thinks best pal!, suppose if the latest design is better you might as well as i intent on keeping the pole for a long time!
im a newbie with wfp and this is my first pole so looking forward to it.
ps will be ordering one of the clx4's when you get them back in stock too!
-
hi Alex, i'll have whatever you thinks best pal!, suppose if the latest design is better you might as well as i intent on keeping the pole for a long time!
im a newbie with wfp and this is my first pole so looking forward to it.
ps will be ordering one of the clx4's when you get them back in stock too!
CLX4 should be back in stock in about 3 weeks time.
I will get them fitted to the pole for you.
-
excellent im really looking forward to getting the pole pal.
thanks glen
-
So if I order the new upgrade for my 2012 SLX. It would come with the new Levers , because if it doesn't it's pointless for me .
So do all new poles and upgrades come with the new upgraded LEVERS for the original new upgrade smart clamps .
My 25ft slx possibly needs them , but I only want the latest latest upgrade .
-
So if I order the new upgrade for my 2012 SLX. It would come with the new Levers , because if it doesn't it's pointless for me .
So do all new poles and upgrades come with the new upgraded LEVERS for the original new upgrade smart clamps .
My 25ft slx possibly needs them , but I only want the latest latest upgrade .
stop moaning all the time, so annoying!
Happy New Year Kempy :)
-
I'm not just making sure I get a good product when ordering the 25ft new smart clamps with the new upgraded levers .
Sorted
Alex emailed new and I'll get new levers and the new levers on the new 25ft clamps when I've ordered them .
That's it , my clamp rant is over , sorted .
Bring on 2014 , to everyone
Off to neighbours with the Kids for a few beers
-
So if I order the new upgrade for my 2012 SLX. It would come with the new Levers , because if it doesn't it's pointless for me .
So do all new poles and upgrades come with the new upgraded LEVERS for the original new upgrade smart clamps .
My 25ft slx possibly needs them , but I only want the latest latest upgrade .
I answered all of these question via email yesterday so i am not quite sure why they are being asked again. If you did not understand my answers you can always email me again.
-
Sorted
-
So if I order the new upgrade for my 2012 SLX. It would come with the new Levers , because if it doesn't it's pointless for me .
So do all new poles and upgrades come with the new upgraded LEVERS for the original new upgrade smart clamps .
My 25ft slx possibly needs them , but I only want the latest latest upgrade .
I answered all of these question via email yesterday so i am not quite sure why they are being asked again. If you did not understand my answers you can always email me again.
lol he likes moaning and complaining all the time about your clamps, i think you are losing your time with him IMAO.
-
I was/am having trouble with the lever/bolts and Alex has just send me the new type. They look a lot better than the old ones,i have not fitted them yet as I am not working until this weather picks up .