Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: trippyboy on November 06, 2013, 05:21:50 pm

Title: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: trippyboy on November 06, 2013, 05:21:50 pm
Ok first let my say I wasn't born with a gardiners slx up my bum,i done trad for 14 yrs and I was lighting quick with trad.
In those 14 yrs I had 3 accidents with ladders (my fault yes)
I just want to know from you trad guys one thing.
Why do you choose to stick with trad when wfp is much safer,and I reckon at least 50% quicker?
Not having a pop at you,just wanting to understand you is all
cheers
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: windymiller on November 06, 2013, 05:23:34 pm
I enjoy it and it keeps me fit  ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: windymiller on November 06, 2013, 05:25:05 pm
forgot to mention been doing trad 22 years, since i was 20  ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Positivity on November 06, 2013, 05:25:42 pm
Money?
You can start earning trad with next to nowt, borrowed ladders and a bucket.

Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: windymiller on November 06, 2013, 05:29:30 pm
And i pick up all the work you wfp lose due to custies not liking wfp. ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on November 06, 2013, 05:32:47 pm
Ok first let my say I wasn't born with a gardiners slx up my bum,i done trad for 14 yrs and I was lighting quick with trad.
In those 14 yrs I had 3 accidents with ladders (my fault yes)
I just want to know from you trad guys one thing.
Why do you choose to stick with trad when wfp is much safer,and I reckon at least 50% quicker?
Not having a pop at you,just wanting to understand you is all
cheers

Fear of change.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: robertphil on November 06, 2013, 06:09:44 pm
very little overheads  , and also a proper challenge .   
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Ian101 on November 06, 2013, 06:40:41 pm
ive been going about 3 1/2 years with first 6 months trad - still feeling like im cheating with wfp  ;D

do sometimes miss simplicity of ladders  :P
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Danny Guest on November 06, 2013, 06:42:33 pm
Been trad then WFP then back again to trad.

Main reason the van I had was poope and maybe should have got better van. I sold everything and went back trad as I knew I could get the work at high prices without the hassle of being WFP.

After a while I've looked at WFP and know I should have got better set up but then van insurance had risen and with the tank I wanted I couldn't be insured so I had found an excuse not to do it.

Now I'm planning to be WFP by feb 2014. Will still clean trad but will be concentrating on gaining WFP work and more commercials

Danny
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: johnny bravo on November 06, 2013, 07:57:41 pm
being trad is harder in these months,      i remember last year if i didnt do wfp  + trad,  there would have been windy days where i would not go out due to bad winds , danger up the ladders.         but i still got out because i had backpack gear,       not bothered about the wind now.          it does pay for itself that way.   its a bit of a headache starting out .
but easy after a while.         unless parts go bad and need replacing.  thats the only drawback in wfp
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dazmond on November 06, 2013, 08:40:12 pm
i was trad for 17 years.3 and a half years wfp now.i do spend a lot more money on equipment but i earn way more(nearly double what i earned on ladders in 3 and a half years).so im still making a fair bit more money.im safer and i enjoy my job so much more.

i still do a bit of trad(ground floor mainly).in fact last 2 jobs of the day today i used the ladders(the backs of one of the  houses has a veranda thats only accessible with ladders)and a small little granny flat.

i enjoy using a squeegee sometimes.mine gets used every day at some point but its only a small percentage.

i think the number one reason that trad window cleaners stay as they are is the initial outlay and ongoing running costs.

2.fear of change and that they will lose customers in droves.

3.thinking they dont have a big enough customer base to warrant the outlay and ongoing costs
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dave f on November 06, 2013, 08:51:14 pm
imo to some. window cleaning aint moved on a bit like putting your head in the sand.first thing i would say is do your resurch it dont have to cost the earth to get the very basic kit.ie if youve got a small budget .get a di bottle 5 or six 25 ltr water containers back pack £100 quid trad bottoms wfp tops.thats what i did when i changed over slung every thing in the back of a ford focus. of i went.got stuck in .i made a pole from a fishing pole simple if yove got the get up and go.ive got a van system now whith a hot wash worked my butt off for a year the work got easey give me time to expand
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: windymiller on November 06, 2013, 08:53:56 pm
I have a wfp system, its in shed  ;D
I use backpack only on windows i cant access Trad.
Wouldnt change to wfp full time, im happy the way i am and what i earn. Trad keeps me fit, if went wfp weight would pile on.
And i pick up most my work from custies not liking the wfp system.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 06, 2013, 09:00:09 pm
Is it safer, yes

Is it faster yes

Does it always do a better IMO no.

I use both methods, I choose which I think will be a better finish as I like to leave a job as I think it should be left and how I would like my windows to be cleaned.

Gordon
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: keyser soze on November 06, 2013, 09:15:35 pm
Is it safer, yes

Is it faster yes

Does it always do a better IMO no.

I use both methods, I choose which I think will be a better finish as I like to leave a job as I think it should be left and how I would like my windows to be cleaned.

Gordon



+1
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: robertphil on November 06, 2013, 10:25:31 pm
Yo wfp lads that keep on preaching the gospel are  banging on to convince yourselves as much as anything .    nobody likes to admit theyv frittered a whole lotta something when they were perfectly happy before  and had been for many yrs,even decades  with some very good holidays behind them

 
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: KS Cleaning on November 06, 2013, 11:17:35 pm
I have a wfp system, its in shed  ;D
I use backpack only on windows i cant access Trad.
Wouldnt change to wfp full time, im happy the way i am and what i earn. Trad keeps me fit, if went wfp weight would pile on.
And i pick up most my work from custies not liking the wfp system.
Buy a brodex pole and put a vikan sill brush on, lugging that about will keep you fit ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: ben M on November 06, 2013, 11:19:09 pm
I have a wfp system, its in shed  ;D
I use backpack only on windows i cant access Trad.
Wouldnt change to wfp full time, im happy the way i am and what i earn. Trad keeps me fit, if went wfp weight would pile on.
And i pick up most my work from custies not liking the wfp system.
Buy a brodex pole and put a vikan sill brush on, lugging that about will keep you fit ;D
;D ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: wpclean on November 06, 2013, 11:51:17 pm
I was trad for a lot of years, and was always put off changing to wfp by so called experienced cleaners saying it did a rubbish job !    It was only when I bought some work that was cleaned by wfp that I realised what I had been missing out on for far too long.

Wfp has a bad name in some peoples eyes due to poor operators, taking shortcuts giving it a bad name.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dannymack on November 07, 2013, 07:03:48 am
Been wfp now around 9 years did ladders for 18 years, I look at jobs I use to ladder of 3 part and think sod that couldn't  do it now. Like you say I hates looking to price up high jobs off ladders now I don't mind as wfp is easier. I gotta say thou when using ladders had no pains since wfp I've had frozen shoulders and neck pain occasionally. Could be old age at 44 who knows.

They say life starts at 40 they mean the aches & pains start about that age and more visits to the docs pmsl !!!
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on November 07, 2013, 07:07:42 am
Is it safer, yes

Is it faster yes

Does it always do a better IMO no.

I use both methods, I choose which I think will be a better finish as I like to leave a job as I think it should be left and how I would like my windows to be cleaned.

Gordon



+1

+2
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dazmond on November 07, 2013, 07:37:51 am
danny what pole do you use as your day to day pole?do you take glucosamine and cod liver oil every day?

extreme poles and extreme brushes for regular cleans really do cut down on strain.

robertphil wfp has been the best decision ive ever made in window cleaning,yes it costs a lot more(esp when you want the best lightest poles on the market)but i earn a lot more which easily covers the extra cost and then some. ;D

nowt wrong with trad only but its slower and you just cant clean windows as effective and add on jobs just cant be done to a good standard without busting a gut hanging off a ladder with a cloth/trad pole!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: windiewasher on November 07, 2013, 07:45:54 am
Been trad then WFP then back again to trad.

Main reason the van I had was poope and maybe should have got better van. I sold everything and went back trad as I knew I could get the work at high prices without the hassle of being WFP.

After a while I've looked at WFP and know I should have got better set up but then van insurance had risen and with the tank I wanted I couldn't be insured so I had found an excuse not to do it.

Now I'm planning to be WFP by feb 2014. Will still clean trad but will be concentrating on gaining WFP work and more commercials

Danny
In other words you couldnt afford it?
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: robertphil on November 07, 2013, 07:46:24 am
busting a gut,  this is the clincher for me.  now  you line up 10 wfp and 10 trad  sideways on and see which  have the gut  sticking out like a big  extra bum  .  is wfp easier on your body in the long run , i doubt it  
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dazmond on November 07, 2013, 08:01:12 am
robertphil i havent got a big belly!! ;D ;DAND i have enough energy to go the gym and swimming now im not running up and down ladders all day!I keep the hose reel in the van and use ultra light carbon poles.

if your happy stay with the ladders!i think your foolish though if you have a busy workload.


regards
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: gary999 on November 07, 2013, 08:57:21 am
vanity...or safety...mmmmm! which one i wll pick! ::)roll
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Danny Guest on November 07, 2013, 09:19:51 am
Been trad then WFP then back again to trad.

Main reason the van I had was poope and maybe should have got better van. I sold everything and went back trad as I knew I could get the work at high prices without the hassle of being WFP.

After a while I've looked at WFP and know I should have got better set up but then van insurance had risen and with the tank I wanted I couldn't be insured so I had found an excuse not to do it.

Now I'm planning to be WFP by feb 2014. Will still clean trad but will be concentrating on gaining WFP work and more commercials

Danny
In other words you couldnt afford it?

Money wasn't an issue, I just had problems with the van.

A few days like bob plum waiting for parts to arrive and thought I'm not bothering with this. It was round that time I was getting out of window cleaning but changed my mind later on.

I sold on a lot of work too then started rebuilding. Now I have more work, better priced and all monthly. Now I'm thinking I would love to have a WFP set up instead of ladders.

Ill admit that I jumped in first time without looking at the better options at the time such as microbore hoses and lighter poles. I guess the timing was wrong but here I am coming for a second go...
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Danny Guest on November 07, 2013, 09:26:16 am
I've now got a daughter and I'm always thinking that the safety aspect will always outweigh any other factor.

Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dannymack on November 07, 2013, 10:31:09 am
Daz is it me or Danny guest regarding what pole everyday use
I use a Gardiners 37 ft slx and also the cheap unger green pole which to be fair do last along time as when the pole slips abit I take the clamp off puts electrical tape under the clamp and is as good as new. I've got the cill brush on it but not the lightest so make sure I eat 4 weetabix pmsl 😁
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dave f on November 07, 2013, 02:36:26 pm
i dont give a monkys which is better saftey is paramount do you reley think a custy is gonna give a poope if you fell  of the poxy ladders .that would be a big fat NO THEN.accidents waiting to happen ,what about family whose life gets turned upside down. if the worst happens god forbid.its about time folk woke up trad aint worth a life.phew ive said it
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dannymack on November 07, 2013, 05:20:40 pm
Bloodyhell Davey Boy I bet you feel better for that pmsl !!! Your right thou and I think all the trad workers or shiners if you can afford but won't go wfp I think you should all do it and move forward with the time as trad is now a thing of the past time to move forward. Robots in years to come to clean them dirty berty mork & mindos ie windows   Feeeeeewwwww dats better as well lol 😳😳😜
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: wfp master on November 07, 2013, 05:32:56 pm
Is it safer, yes

Is it faster yes

Does it always do a better IMO no.

I use both methods, I choose which I think will be a better finish as I like to leave a job as I think it should be left and how I would like my windows to be cleaned.

Gordon



+1
+1
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dave f on November 07, 2013, 08:53:52 pm
we will have to keep banging the wfp drum untill the trad dinosours wake up ;D looks like itll be a long time though
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Don Kee on November 07, 2013, 09:17:38 pm
Why try to convert people to pole?
Leave tradders to it, if they're happy then they're happy....
People still ride horses, some people drive a car....
As long as people are happy leave them to it
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: one eyed window cleaning on November 07, 2013, 09:21:55 pm
Is it safer, yes

Is it faster yes

Does it always do a better IMO no.

I use both methods, I choose which I think will be a better finish as I like to leave a job as I think it should be left and how I would like my windows to be cleaned.

Gordon

All the way!
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: PoleKing on November 07, 2013, 09:28:27 pm
Why try to convert people to pole?
Leave tradders to it, if they're happy then they're happy....
People still ride horses, some people drive a car....
As long as people are happy leave them to it

+1
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 07, 2013, 09:59:27 pm
At the end of the d it's personal choice! if I want to use trad I will if I want to use a pole I will.

Thats why I am self employed so I dont have to dictated to.

It winds me up when people bang on about what if and what if that, yes it is a very dangerous job which is why we are well rewarded for it.

If you want to talk about danger and the effect it would have on other peoples lives, what if you hit a car from behind that had a family in it with half a ton or more of water on board it would be the same as an emty van of course it wouldn't, Yet we all still do it without worrying

The amount of people I see using water fed poles that have no cones out to warn the public, this could effect other peoples lives!

If you are very good with a squeegee does not mean you will be good with a pole! with that in mind some people may just prefer the finish they get with trad.

Regardless whether people think I am mad thats up to them I wil continue to use both methods as I don't think you can use either methods on everything so I will use what I think is best.

Regards,

Gordon
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: PoleKing on November 07, 2013, 10:04:48 pm
At the end of the d it's personal choice! if I want to use trad I will if I want to use a pole I will.

Thats why I am self employed so I dont have to dictated to.

It winds me up when people bang on about what if and what if that, yes it is a very dangerous job which is why we are well rewarded for it.

If you want to talk about danger and the effect it would have on other peoples lives, what if you hit a car from behind that had a family in it with half a ton or more of water on board it would be the same as an emty van of course it wouldn't, Yet we all still do it without worrying

The amount of people I see using water fed poles that have no cones out to warn the public, this could effect other peoples lives!

If you are very good with a squeegee does not mean you will be good with a pole! with that in mind some people may just prefer the finish they get with trad.

Regardless whether people think I am mad thats up to them I wil continue to use both methods as I don't think you can use either methods on everything so I will use what I think is best.

Regards,

Gordon

Sensible.
Other than the bit about the cone.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 07, 2013, 10:31:25 pm
Hi Darren,

Surely if you are running hoses over roads and pavements? Or am I wrong?

Gordon
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: PoleKing on November 07, 2013, 10:33:35 pm
Hi Darren,

Surely if you are running hoses over roads and pavements? Or am I wrong?

Gordon

I think right/wrong perhaps isn't the way to look at it.
I don't use cones for domestic.
Not to say you're 'wrong' though. I just disagree that they are necessary.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 07, 2013, 10:48:52 pm
I'm not saying there necessary, again personal choice but if on one hand people bang on about safety then surely it has to work both ways?

Gordon
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: colin bird on November 08, 2013, 05:35:11 am
I was trad for a lot of years, and was always put off changing to wfp by so called experienced cleaners saying it did a rubbish job !    It was only when I bought some work that was cleaned by wfp that I realised what I had been missing out on for far too long.

Wfp has a bad name in some peoples eyes due to poor operators, taking shortcuts giving it a bad name.
fully agree
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: dave f on November 08, 2013, 06:08:34 am
total disregard for saftey thats all there is to it imo, you can go on for ever.on this matter discusing pros and cons ,this is just my opinion i feil very strongly,on the subject
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: PoleKing on November 08, 2013, 07:45:31 am
I'm not saying there necessary, again personal choice but if on one hand people bang on about safety then surely it has to work both ways?

Gordon

Totally get you.
I don't bang on about it though bud.
I work in as safe manner as I think necessary.
I'm more about common sense than H&S.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Clever Forum Name on November 08, 2013, 07:53:54 am
I use 4 cones on domestic now. Used to use two.

It's the best advertising for passing cars and people. They see all these cones and look at me. Since going from 4 to 2 I would say I am picking up about 3/4 more customers a week.
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: gary999 on November 08, 2013, 08:19:43 am
i use backpacks...no need for cones ;)
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: robert mitchell on November 08, 2013, 11:52:11 am
Hi Darren,

Surely if you are running hoses over roads and pavements? Or am I wrong?

Gordon

I think right/wrong perhaps isn't the way to look at it.
I don't use cones for domestic.
Not to say you're 'wrong' though. I just disagree that they are necessary.


I agree , the hose is bright yellow /orange .

Im all for being safe but there is a limit.

What if they trip over the cone?

Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Positivity on November 08, 2013, 12:06:19 pm
Hi Darren,

Surely if you are running hoses over roads and pavements? Or am I wrong?

Gordon
You're not Dave Willis in disguise are you? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 08, 2013, 12:26:29 pm
Sorry to disappoint you but no.

I'm not saying I don't like using the pole, I've actually just bought a clx which lm loving.

All I'm saying is if safety is the very reason why people go water fed then fine but to me if that's the case then it has to be all aspects of saftey not just the cleaning of a window.

Gordon
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: TomCrowther on November 08, 2013, 12:34:11 pm
I use cones because I think you should give warning about a trip hazard. Not everyone has perfect vision. Having said that, nobody has ever tripped over my hose {apart from me} but someone has tripped over the warning cone  ::)roll
Title: Re: Why would anyone go trad?
Post by: Gordon_Taylor on November 08, 2013, 12:39:16 pm
 :) Sod's law that Tom