Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: d s windowcleaning on October 30, 2013, 06:15:33 pm
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There's been a few people canvassing a local estate to me and I don't really no how they can justify the prices they trying to charge . £25 for a 3 bedroom semi , £30 for a 3bed detached are these people really expecting to get any work , where's the pricing come from ? You lucky if you can get £10 on theses houses.
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I had one come to my house the other night.
First time ever.
If they get any custies good luck to them.
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i quoted someone a tenner other day on 3 bed average size house, she said her window cleaners charges £25, and she pays it, or payed it :)
she came to me when i was cleaning neighbours, i think it pays to be reasonably priced
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i quoted someone a tenner other day on 3 bed average size house, she said her window cleaners charges £25, and she pays it, or payed it :)
she came to me when i was cleaning neighbours, i think it pays to be reasonably priced
are you reasonable or too low?
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well if i quote a tenner it takes me 10 to 15 mins, some people round here charge silly money. think im average price for my area, there are a few that charge a fiver a house
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a lot on here will slag you off for what they see as low prices, but i think they lie a lot or cant grasp that not all places are the same, they go on about their top prices but then cry if it rains 2 days on the trot, charge what your happy with & ignore the rest
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Better to be a reasonably priced and busy as expensive and door knocking constantly.
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There's been a few people canvassing a local estate to me and I don't really no how they can justify the prices they trying to charge . £25 for a 3 bedroom semi , £30 for a 3bed detached are these people really expecting to get any work , where's the pricing come from ? You lucky if you can get £10 on theses houses.
They've probably had a glance through ciu.
Average forum prices if you go by the posts ;D
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Better to be a reasonably priced and busy as expensive and door knocking constantly.
I think so too. I am (apparently) the cheapest in my locality. I don't undercut, but I charge what I feel comfortable with, and although I am still building, I am doing ok. I no longer canvass as I don't have the time, and anyways work is coming to me through word of mouth recommendations and being seen working.
There are others around who charge much more, but are constantly looking for work and seem to be really struggling.
John
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There is a misconception on here that "areas" are different. And while I accept that some grimethorpe wasteland or industry bereft welsh sinkhole with no work is going to be a bit more depressed than sunny southern computer valley I would suggest that it's people that are different.
Someone in say Cheshire, Somerset, Midlothian or Essex will cheerfully pay £25 every month for a 4 bed detached to a reliable, honest personable windie if it means they can leave their precious home in their trusted care while they work hard, play hard and enjoy life. If someone went in at a tenner or £12.50 they wouldn't give them time of day - they realise that that windie will possibly not be reliable or insured or do a good job as he will cut corners.
Another will scrimp about and jump at the low price until they learn that to get a reliable windie you have to pay the going rate. Or they won't learn. And the windies that clean for them typically scratch about getting the poor customers.
The ones you lot need to worry about are the ones like me - I charge £20 for a 4 bed detached - I have no worry from undercutters and get people come up and ask for my services because I am as reliable and trustworthy as the day is long and do a good job every time. (except the rare time when I don't and then I'll put it right at no charge) ;D
Some people value themselves so low and are so scared of competition they choose to work for low prices rather than they are forced to.
John Ruskin said "it's better to pay a little too much and get good service and work than too little and get rubbish, because then you'll pay twice to get the job done." (Gold abridged paraphrase version)
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That first paragraph ;D ;D ;D
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There is a misconception on here that "areas" are different. And while I accept that some grimethorpe wasteland or industry bereft welsh sinkhole with no work is going to be a bit more depressed than sunny southern computer valley I would suggest that it's people that are different.
Someone in say Cheshire, Somerset, Midlothian or Essex will cheerfully pay £25 every month for a 4 bed detached to a reliable, honest personable windie if it means they can leave their precious home in their trusted care while they work hard, play hard and enjoy life. If someone went in at a tenner or £12.50 they wouldn't give them time of day - they realise that that windie will possibly not be reliable or insured or do a good job as he will cut corners.
Another will scrimp about and jump at the low price until they learn that to get a reliable windie you have to pay the going rate. Or they won't learn. And the windies that clean for them typically scratch about getting the poor customers.
The ones you lot need to worry about are the ones like me - I charge £20 for a 4 bed detached - I have no worry from undercutters and get people come up and ask for my services because I am as reliable and trustworthy as the day is long and do a good job every time. (except the rare time when I don't and then I'll put it right at no charge) ;D
Some people value themselves so low and are so scared of competition they choose to work for low prices rather than they are forced to.
John Ruskin said "it's better to pay a little too much and get good service and work than too little and get rubbish, because then you'll pay twice to get the job done." (Gold abridged paraphrase version)
you wouldn't get any work in my area. or very little at those prices
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There is a misconception on here that "areas" are different. And while I accept that some grimethorpe wasteland or industry bereft welsh sinkhole with no work is going to be a bit more depressed than sunny southern computer valley I would suggest that it's people that are different.
Someone in say Cheshire, Somerset, Midlothian or Essex will cheerfully pay £25 every month for a 4 bed detached to a reliable, honest personable windie if it means they can leave their precious home in their trusted care while they work hard, play hard and enjoy life. If someone went in at a tenner or £12.50 they wouldn't give them time of day - they realise that that windie will possibly not be reliable or insured or do a good job as he will cut corners.
Another will scrimp about and jump at the low price until they learn that to get a reliable windie you have to pay the going rate. Or they won't learn. And the windies that clean for them typically scratch about getting the poor customers.
The ones you lot need to worry about are the ones like me - I charge £20 for a 4 bed detached - I have no worry from undercutters and get people come up and ask for my services because I am as reliable and trustworthy as the day is long and do a good job every time. (except the rare time when I don't and then I'll put it right at no charge) ;D
Some people value themselves so low and are so scared of competition they choose to work for low prices rather than they are forced to.
John Ruskin said "it's better to pay a little too much and get good service and work than too little and get rubbish, because then you'll pay twice to get the job done." (Gold abridged paraphrase version)
I live not far from the grimethorpe wasteland , I also get people asking for my services , I don't value myself too low , I look at it realistic and charge what I think is a fair and honest price , Not a rip off price at least while the door knockers are out giving stupid prices it don't seem too bad to the customer when I increase mine by a pound or 2 ;D
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i quoted someone a tenner other day on 3 bed average size house, she said her window cleaners charges £25, and she pays it, or payed it :)
she came to me when i was cleaning neighbours, i think it pays to be reasonably priced
But she was paying £25. It is only because you are cheap (less than half price) that she has switched. I assume that the other windy has lots more customers and he has to work less than half the hours to earn the same as you.
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i quoted someone a tenner other day on 3 bed average size house, she said her window cleaners charges £25, and she pays it, or payed it :)
she came to me when i was cleaning neighbours, i think it pays to be reasonably priced
But she was paying £25. It is only because you are cheap (less than half price) that she has switched. I assume that the other windy has lots more customers and he has to work less than half the hours to earn the same as you.
Totally agree with 8weekly. If someone then went and undercut and said £7 she would probably go with them.
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i didnt undercut. she walked up to me and said how much do you charge? i quoted her £10 as i do both her neighbours each side for same price, she said thats great been looking for someone as my window cleaner is to expensive, i asked her how much he charged she said £25, all i was saying is that window cleaners who charge ridiculous prices (£25 for 10 minutes work) the customer will always have more sensible priced window cleaners about that do the same job and will likely to go with them, especially when other people in there street are paying half that.
just dont know how anyone has the guts to charge £25 for 10 minutes work ???
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i didnt undercut. she walked up to me and said how much do you charge? i quoted her £10 as i do both her neighbours each side for same price, she said thats great been looking for someone as my window cleaner is to expensive, i asked her how much he charged she said £25, all i was saying is that window cleaners who charge ridiculous prices (£25 for 10 minutes work) the customer will always have more sensible priced window cleaners about that do the same job and will likely to go with them, especially when other people in there street are paying half that.
just dont know how anyone has the guts to charge £25 for 10 minutes work ???
I bet her house takes you longer than ten minutes. And every time you clean it you know you could have charged £20! ;D
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Sorry maybe 12 minutes :)
I can't charge 20 when I charge each of her neighbours a tenner , she obviously speaks to them
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i didnt undercut. she walked up to me and said how much do you charge? i quoted her £10 as i do both her neighbours each side for same price, she said thats great been looking for someone as my window cleaner is to expensive, i asked her how much he charged she said £25, all i was saying is that window cleaners who charge ridiculous prices (£25 for 10 minutes work) the customer will always have more sensible priced window cleaners about that do the same job and will likely to go with them, especially when other people in there street are paying half that.
just dont know how anyone has the guts to charge £25 for 10 minutes work ???
I bet her house takes you longer than ten minutes. And every time you clean it you know you could have charged £20! ;D
where you based granville? kensington
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>cowboy
Nope! On a predominantly council estate in Bristol; seven years ago, nearby "the smelting works" closed with the loss of hundreds of jobs - five years ago "the chemical company" closed with hundreds more. And the economy has been flat ever since.
There's always money about and always people who want reliability and trustworthiness over saving a few quid. You just gotta tap into them or be a busy fool.
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i didnt undercut. she walked up to me and said how much do you charge? i quoted her £10 as i do both her neighbours each side for same price, she said thats great been looking for someone as my window cleaner is to expensive, i asked her how much he charged she said £25, all i was saying is that window cleaners who charge ridiculous prices (£25 for 10 minutes work) the customer will always have more sensible priced window cleaners about that do the same job and will likely to go with them, especially when other people in there street are paying half that.
just dont know how anyone has the guts to charge £25 for 10 minutes work ???
I bet her house takes you longer than ten minutes. And every time you clean it you know you could have charged £20! ;D
where you based granville? kensington
That's irrelevant.
The issue is that the OP could be charging £20 and still seem reasonable compared to the £25. Instead of celebrating his cheapness and taking it as proof that his race to the bottom pricing is right, he ought to have learned that he could easily charge £15 and still be reasonably priced.
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So many window cleaners undervalue themselves, they think that because they can knock out a 3 bed semi in 10 minutes ---- or think they can --- as indicative of an earning potential of £60.00 an hour!
How many solo window cleaners do you think can knock out £480.00 on a standard 8 hour day?
Or £2400.00 a week doing residential work averaging a tenner a clean?
Not a snowballs chance in hell of course.
What kind of income do you envisage as your target income for the year?
Ok, you may only be in the building stage of your business but let's say, just for a ballpark figure you chose a not overly ambitious £25,000 a year....
How much do you think you will need to turn over to achieve that kind of "true" income?
By the time you have taken off vehicle costs, equipment costs and all other real income related costs, allowed, say, a modest 10% profit margin for your business before you take your (modest) £25,000 salary then unless you are turning over £35,000 plus per annum you ain't gonna have anything like that (modest) income!
Do you really think that at a tenner a house you are going to get anywhere close to £35,000 as an annual business turnover?
For a start, very few out there will work 8 hours on an average day, time will be lost because of the weather and many other reasons, vehicle breakdowns or equipment malfunction, hangovers or just the simple fact that there will be days when you simply lack the motivation...during the winter the short days will cost you time and how many hours are taken up every week with doing collections? That's time added on that is non earning for a start (but should be built into your pricing structure nonetheless)
Now I know that not all ones business is going to be a tenner a pop and yes, I'd most certainly say that £25.00 for a 3 bed semi is ridiculous but if you want a good income you need to charge good prices...if you are the cheapest around then you need to rethink your pricing strategy!
Having said that of course, if you clean he houses either side for a tenner you can hardly clean the identical house in the middle for - say - £15.00!
And the ones either side are hardly likely to stand for a 50% price increase either!!
But hey, who said running a business was easy eh?
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What he said ;)
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So many window cleaners undervalue themselves, they think that because they can knock out a 3 bed semi in 10 minutes ---- or think they can --- as indicative of an earning potential of £60.00 an hour!
How many solo window cleaners do you think can knock out £480.00 on a standard 8 hour day?
Or £2400.00 a week doing residential work averaging a tenner a clean?
Not a snowballs chance in hell of course.
What kind of income do you envisage as your target income for the year?
Ok, you may only be in the building stage of your business but let's say, just for a ballpark figure you chose a not overly ambitious £25,000 a year....
How much do you think you will need to turn over to achieve that kind of "true" income?
By the time you have taken off vehicle costs, equipment costs and all other real income related costs, allowed, say, a modest 10% profit margin for your business before you take your (modest) £25,000 salary then unless you are turning over £35,000 plus per annum you ain't gonna have anything like that (modest) income!
Do you really think that at a tenner a house you are going to get anywhere close to £35,000 as an annual business turnover?
For a start, very few out there will work 8 hours on an average day, time will be lost because of the weather and many other reasons, vehicle breakdowns or equipment malfunction, hangovers or just the simple fact that there will be days when you simply lack the motivation...during the winter the short days will cost you time and how many hours are taken up every week with doing collections? That's time added on that is non earning for a start (but should be built into your pricing structure nonetheless)
Now I know that not all ones business is going to be a tenner a pop and yes, I'd most certainly say that £25.00 for a 3 bed semi is ridiculous but if you want a good income you need to charge good prices...if you are the cheapest around then you need to rethink your pricing strategy!
Having said that of course, if you clean he houses either side for a tenner you can hardly clean the identical house in the middle for - say - £15.00!
And the ones either side are hardly likely to stand for a 50% price increase either!!
But hey, who said running a business was easy eh?
Yes,
90 £10 properties a week over 40 weeks = £36000.
If you cant clean 90 properties in a week then its time to look for another job.
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short days DONT cost you time if you finish about 4 pm all year round!if you work in most wet weather as well then you wont lose too many days.lack of motivation?whats that?i very rarely lack motivation!hangovers?I DONT DRINK!
£10,000 on expenses?more like £5,000 for me!
as for £10 for a 3 bed semi.i charge between £7 and £12 on very compact estate work making £150-£180 per 6 HOUR working day.i have 8 days of very compact estate work.of course i have lots of other high end accounts and some nice commercial jobs(mainly mid size offices,childrens homes and nurseries).
plus all the add on jobs conny roofs,fascias,soffits and now solar panel cleaning.
fuel costs per week average at £15 in diesel.
collecting averages about an hour a week as more and more customers pay online,SAE or are in and pay me on the day.some weeks i dont collect at all.
i can complete most of my work working 6 hours a day 5 days a week over the course of 3 to 3 and a half weeks.some of them days are only 3 or 4 hours!quite often i get 3 OR 4 DAYS OFF or sometimes a week off MOST MONTHS!!
being organised and using extreme poles and a high flow with aqua-daptor i burn through work so fast at times.
ive still got plenty of time for going the gym/swimming and helping my missus in her shop and holidays and i hit the higher end of your figures you ve quoted ian! ;D
oh.....and.....login in on ere!!! ;) :)
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>cowboy
Nope! On a predominantly council estate in Bristol; seven years ago, nearby "the smelting works" closed with the loss of hundreds of jobs - five years ago "the chemical company" closed with hundreds more. And the economy has been flat ever since.
There's always money about and always people who want reliability and trustworthiness over saving a few quid. You just gotta tap into them or be a busy fool.
i just wish it was all gold ....
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If you cant clean 90 properties in a week then its time to look for another job.
Compact yes, pepper pot style, it would be difficult.
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When I canvass sometimes get, ohh that's too dear, sometimes get ooh that's really good, mostly get that seems reasonably, so think I'm charging right price, always room to put up prices every now and again
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short days DONT cost you time if you finish about 4 pm all year round!if you work in most wet weather as well then you wont lose too many days.lack of motivation?whats that?i very rarely lack motivation!hangovers?I DONT DRINK!
£10,000 on expenses?more like £5,000 for me!
as for £10 for a 3 bed semi.i charge between £7 and £12 on very compact estate work making £150-£180 per 6 HOUR working day.i have 8 days of very compact estate work.of course i have lots of other high end accounts and some nice commercial jobs(mainly mid size offices,childrens homes and nurseries).
plus all the add on jobs conny roofs,fascias,soffits and now solar panel cleaning.
fuel costs per week average at £15 in diesel.
collecting averages about an hour a week as more and more customers pay online,SAE or are in and pay me on the day.some weeks i dont collect at all.
i can complete most of my work working 6 hours a day 5 days a week over the course of 3 to 3 and a half weeks.some of them days are only 3 or 4 hours!quite often i get 3 OR 4 DAYS OFF or sometimes a week off MOST MONTHS!!
being organised and using extreme poles and a high flow with aqua-daptor i burn through work so fast at times.
ive still got plenty of time for going the gym/swimming and helping my missus in her shop and holidays and i hit the higher end of your figures you ve quoted ian! ;D
oh.....and.....login in on ere!!! ;) :)
Nice response Daz but if you do all that you - I'm not doubting you by the way - say you do, then you represent...let's say the 'potential' for what can be achieved.
Very few of us will work in all extremes of weather, most will most certainly be affected in the depths of winter by short hours.
One thing I will disagree with you on though is business costs, your work vehicle alone - regardless of whether it is your only vehicle - is 5k worth of overhead alone, vehicles don't last forever, plus you have to spend money on equipment, pumps, batteries, poles - and the good poles are expensive poles! - brushes, resin, all trad gear too of course plus pressure washers and assorted gear that goes with them if you use them, then there is workwear,cold weather gear, waterproof boots & gloves for the winter and so on.
Much of course is 'possible' in fact, if I only had what it takes I'm sure I could emulate Richard Branson, have my own chain of shops, trains and mega empire...all is possible.
It isn't of course, just as most window cleaners will be darned lucky if they even turn over 25k let alone have an income of that size that they will be taxed on....
Want an honest answer for income? Look at the income you are actually taxed on.
Not sure what the tax man states as the average turnover is for window cleaners now but about 3 years ago (roughly) it was below 17k and out of that has to be taken all business and running costs.
I do know of a couple of window cleaners that have some amazingly high turnovers and the prices they charge match their turnovers too and one is on this forum too!
I wish to hell that I could charge what he charges but the best I can do is stand back and shake my head in envious admiration...
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What about.
What do you declare to the tax man?
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I couldn't live on my taxable profit.
That's why I pay an expensive accountant.
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your right on the van expenses ian(well next year anyway!)as ill be buying a new van for 4 or 5 grand so my total expenses could well be 10 grand next year! :'(
BUT i dont intend on buying any more extreme poles anytime soon!im hoping these will last me a few years yet!i have about 12 brushes,loads of connectors,hoses,2 reels,rubber,scrims,microfibres,detergent,workgear,gloves.22 slx,25 extreme,47 ft extreme.5 goosenecks,resinecks etc and now a hot water heater!
good to see you back ian i thought you d left for good!! ;) ;D
very best wishes
dazmond
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good to see you back ian i thought you d left for good!! ;) ;D
very best wishes
dazmond
Cheers Daz and nah, just needed a break but I'm looking forward to getting involved again...and even posting some unusual topics on the chat section again!
It's also really interesting to see how things have progressed on the forum and no surprises to still see many of the same questions still being asked too ::)roll