Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Geoff on October 11, 2013, 11:33:51 am
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Here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24489772 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24489772)
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Here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24489772 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24489772)
I'm thinking of joining my local brigade so that I can do more window cleaning.
You'd be lucky! Most fire services have stopped people applying for jobs because the waitlist is so long already. Wonder why that is?
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Get your own pension if you don't like it!!!
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Don't know what they are moaning about?
Im sure they will be supplied with zimmer frames to get about. ;D
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If you read into it, you'll see that our contracts have changed since joining and to work longer for a lesser pension which we pay into,
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Why do people hate it when workers fight to protect their conditions?
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Why do people hate it when workers fight to protect their conditions?
Here here
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I know 2 firemen and there both w@?k£&s
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You can say that about any job, I know 2 teachers and there both crows
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Nothing wrong with throwing a cat in among the pigeons on a Friday afternoon. ;D
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now now geoffrey ;D
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Anyway, they talk this way every year around bonfire night time.
Nothing changes. ::)roll
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Lazy work shy people them firemen.i think its disgusting what they get away with,they should be cleaning the streets instead of sitting on there backsides allday.
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Fireman I know was working his days off doing building jobs, retired at 50, bought outright the home of his dreams in the location of his dreams, lives off his pension.
Fair play it him I say. Work hard, and smart, to get the things you desire in life if that's what you want.
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So that's a bit like what the teachers get up to.
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Fireman I know was working his days off doing building jobs, retired at 50, bought outright the home of his dreams in the location of his dreams, lives off his pension.
Fair play it him I say. Work hard, and smart, to get the things you desire in life if that's what you want.
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I know 2 firemen and there both w@?k£&s
i know 2 postman and there w';/kers and Florists oh and 2 window Cleaners, your point is what? this forum really has gone down hill, i used to come on here for sound advice, all there seems to be is bragging and bitching, apologies to the people that dont and nothing personal to you Mr mallett over and out
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Anybody who slags off firefighters have all had the same chance of applying to join .
If you agreed to a mortgage and after paying in for fifteen years they told you your payments are going up , you have to pay for ten years longer and at the end you would only own 60% of your house , would you accept it with a smile on your face or would you fight it ?
They signed up to a pension and planned there life around it , the government are ripping up the contract and stitching people up massively.
The mp's pay and pensions have been looked after though !
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Anyone who took advice that their financial future was guaranteed in the manner you describe should have their head checking, as past performance is not a guide to future performance!
Snouts in trough comes to mind.
And, as for teachers - the worst of the lot.
At least the ambulance drivers have been behaving ok lately. As for the police, they are only one inch away from striking, aren't they?, the poor underpaid devils.
Shoot the lot of them, and bring in people who really care about the country, not their ruddy pay packets.
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Shoot them ?
Really ?
Giving away your level of intelligence there !
Whar do you know as fact about being a firefighter ?
The risks they take and the images that stay in your head forever ?
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Geoff if you think we do it for the money, you need your head checking, the deductions we have are massive, so why shouldn't we have a second job. We all have family's and children to support, A bit of jealousy springs to mind. Statistically you will be involved in 2 major fires in your life, let's see who you count on if your involved in one
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Lazy work shy people them firemen.i think its disgusting what they get away with,they should be cleaning the streets instead of sitting on there backsides allday.
Go walk on a fire station with the same attitude see what they actually do all day.
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Geoff if you think we do it for the money, you need your head checking, the deductions we have are massive, so why shouldn't we have a second job. We all have family's and children to support, A bit of jealousy springs to mind. Statistically you will be involved in 2 major fires in your life, let's see who you count on if your involved in one
see the armed forces that have to step in in event of strike action, they had their pension changed too, did you hear a peep from them, even though having their pension changed they still get leave cancelled and have to do fire courses then spend weeks on the road covering strikes, when they should be on leave or training for war
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No they dont , the armed forces are not covering the strikes - get your facts straight before posting .
The strike has been four hours so far not weeks.
Both my brothers are in the army and yes I have heard "a peep" they are not happy but they do not have the legal right to strike .
They still get to retire from active service at 45 - not 60 like they are expecting us to.
Wht comment when you dont know the facts ?
An opinion based on rumour and tabloid bull is a pointless opinion .
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4 hours so far ;) they may not be stepping in on this occasion but they have done on many occasions, I have covered two different sets of strikes whilst serving, I lost 15 days post operational tour leave on the second time, that is leave that I should have had after being on tour for 6 months, I was flown back from that tour to do training with many others when I should have being doing my job in Bosnia, so the guys left behind were put at risk due to being short of manpower, and it was not cheap to fly us back either, the bill all footed by the taxpayer, the reason the military can't strike is because it risks lives, I put it to you that going on strike as a firefighter also puts lives at risk.
I have every sympathy your reason for taking action by the way, there is no way I would wanted to have served until I was 60 in the forces, and similarly I would not be to happy if I was a firefighter, I just thought I would point out that actions have an affect on others who through no fault of their own not only face danger away on operations but then have to do it when they return
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The army get a free pension and only have to do 22 years for a full pension or 12 years for half. And fair play to them my 6 best mates are in the forces and I was in the marines before I joined the fire service
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
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The last firefighter strike was in 2002 , completely irrelevant now .
I have friends and family in forces and all of them have lost leave for allsorts of different reasons , they know what they are signing up for when they join.
The problem with forums is that people will say stuff they wouldn't have the guts to say to your face .
This post was obviously put on here to get a reaction .
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
;)
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I cant see anything wrong with a cleaner or anybody who works 50 hours a week at minimum
wage paying taxes to pay for a fire fighter or teachers pension.
What else are plebs for.
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The last firefighter strike was in 2002 , completely irrelevant now .
I have friends and family in forces and all of them have lost leave for allsorts of different reasons , they know what they are signing up for when they join.
The problem with forums is that people will say stuff they wouldn't have the guts to say to your face .
This post was obviously put on here to get a reaction .
I know when the last strikes were, I covered them and I trained for the proposed strikes in 2003 that never happened, trained for them when I should have been on leave, and there was no way I was trained to extent you lads were, so I am suggesting strikes risk lives, that is all.
and I am aware on why this post was started, he is notorious for it ;)
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Majority of the people on this forum being faced with going into a burning building wouldn't have the bottle lets face it, neither would they having to serve in some of the most dangerous places in the world.
I certainly wouldn't want to, I'll stick to the safety of cleaning but what I won't do is make ridiculous comments from behind a computer screen.
I actually know a fireman who was off duty when he was walking his son home from school, a house went up in flames and he left the child with a neighbour and ran in the building and pulled a woman and young girl to safety. How many of us would just stand there and watch?
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No they dont , the armed forces are not covering the strikes - get your facts straight before posting .
The strike has been four hours so far not weeks.
Both my brothers are in the army and yes I have heard "a peep" they are not happy but they do not have the legal right to strike .
They still get to retire from active service at 45 - not 60 like they are expecting us to.
Wht comment when you dont know the facts ?
An opinion based on rumour and tabloid bull is a pointless opinion .
So what is the problem of retiring at 60?
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No they dont , the armed forces are not covering the strikes - get your facts straight before posting .
The strike has been four hours so far not weeks.
Both my brothers are in the army and yes I have heard "a peep" they are not happy but they do not have the legal right to strike .
They still get to retire from active service at 45 - not 60 like they are expecting us to.
Wht comment when you dont know the facts ?
An opinion based on rumour and tabloid bull is a pointless opinion .
So what is the problem of retiring at 60?
Only a tiny percentage of people would be fit enough to do the job at sixty , the governments own research proves that .
And female firfighters have even less chance at that age .
We also pay the highest contributions in the public sector to pay for retiring earlier.
The union have been negotiating now for more than two years and the government have ignored all the evidence , even there own .
Any extra risk during the strike is on the governments shoulders .
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Good luck to them, I hope they get an result.
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
Agree.
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
Agree.
;D
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Does anyone take the view that this strike could be the governments fault?
I really don't think firefighters enjoy losing pay but they have an agreement and now the government wants to change it.
I'm sure all other channels of negotiation were exhausted before it came to this.
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You won't get the chance to retire at 60, I will be sacked before then cause I can't maintain the standard that they want to set, which means the £320 a month I put into my pension ( going up to £370) won't be accessible till I'm 67 . Sacked on grounds of incapable to do the job
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
Agree.
;D
;D
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We would have accepted the higher contributions to pay for any shortfall in the pension .
Unfortunately they are stitching us up to pay for the ruined economy .
The bankers still get there huge bonuses and salaries though .
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I clean windows to put bread on the table , like most people I have a second job to keep my family's head above the water
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The thing that gets me about most public sector workers is that they actually think the
contributions they pay into their pensions covers what they take out when they retire.
Try putting the same amount into a private pension and see what sort of a pittance you will get when
you retire.
I don't have a problem with fire fighters or teachers going out and getting second jobs good luck to them.
I would do the same myself if I was in their position and needed to.
I also believe that if your job forces you to retire early then you should be compensated until retirement age,
after that you should get the same treatment as the rest of us.
I do have a problem paying taxes so that a public sector worker can retire on a pension that most of us
could never afford.
At the end of the day these pensions didn't need to be offered to entice people into these jobs.
So the government is only putting right what should never have happened in the first place.
Please somebody kill me I am turning into a Tory.
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you lot are far too sensitive..ths post was started to get a rise
as for pensions unfortunately you are going to get little sympathy
the way things are at the mo
ive been paying into private pensions since i was 18 and the goal
posts and the costs have been constantly moved in the last 20 odd
years .i was promised x amount at 55 maintaining this has become
financially painfull i even extended to 60 but in the end i have stopped
paying in
many out therehave done the same so when certain services talk about strike
over such issues even if justified the vast majority are simply not interested
especially when they will be retiring if they can retire at all under a lot poorer
conditions
you can give out any reasons you like and they may be justified but you
are wasting your breath when the vast majority think this is all about
personal gain.
my advice would be stop jumping around justifying yourself to these
posts which are a wind up and just get on with it.
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you lot are far too sensitive..ths post was started to get a rise
as for pensions unfortunately you are going to get little sympathy
the way things are at the mo
ive been paying into private pensions since i was 18 and the goal
posts and the costs have been constantly moved in the last 20 odd
years .i was promised x amount at 55 maintaining this has become
financially painfull i even extended to 60 but in the end i have stopped
paying in
many out therehave done the same so when certain services talk about strike
over such issues even if justified the vast majority are simply not interested
especially when they will be retiring if they can retire at all under a lot poorer
conditions
you can give out any reasons you like and they may be justified but you
are wasting your breath when the vast majority think this is all about
personal gain.
my advice would be stop jumping around justifying yourself to these
posts which are a wind up and just get on with it.
What he said
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This post doesnt wind me up , but i do like a good discussion with intelligent people .
We all pay taxes for people that don't work and never have , right or wrong thats what happens and has for a long time in this country.
I personally have always managed to find a job and have done some pretty crappy ones for low pay , but i would rather do that than sponge off the system.
The entire fire service is paid for from everyones taxes (including firefighters) , there is millions of pounds wasted every year on idiotic stuff that doesnt work , for instance regional control centres-billions wasted (and millions still being wasted on empty buildings), overpriced out of date I.T systems , and a ridiculously top heavy management structure to name but a few.
Regarding pensions , until recently the pension has been self funded , the people paying into the pension were paying the pensions of the retired firefighters (there has never been a pot of money that is invested and the pensions paid from . As the fire service has shrunk there is not enough people paying in to cover whats going out . Yes your right the taxpayer pays some of this contribution , like they do for nurses , teachers and all public sector workers - the difference is we pay around double the contributions so we can retire before we are too old to do the job.
Without a workable pension scheme a lot of firefighters would end up claiming benefits for ten years rather than claiming pension , because they too unfit for the job and cant access their pension until they are 67 .
So the taxpayer still ends up footing the bill and it will cost the taxpayer more .
The fire service is also very cheap , around fifty to sixty quid a year per household , wait until they privatise it and your paying 2- 3 hundred quid a year for a much worse service .
Also worth noting is that in the last ten years firefighter fatalities have doubled compared to the previous ten year period due to lack of investment in realistic training .
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you lot are far too sensitive..ths post was started to get a rise
as for pensions unfortunately you are going to get little sympathy
the way things are at the mo
ive been paying into private pensions since i was 18 and the goal
posts and the costs have been constantly moved in the last 20 odd
years .i was promised x amount at 55 maintaining this has become
financially painfull i even extended to 60 but in the end i have stopped
paying in
many out therehave done the same so when certain services talk about strike
over such issues even if justified the vast majority are simply not interested
especially when they will be retiring if they can retire at all under a lot poorer
conditions
you can give out any reasons you like and they may be justified but you
are wasting your breath when the vast majority think this is all about
personal gain.
my advice would be stop jumping around justifying yourself to these
posts which are a wind up and just get on with it.
What he said
+1 ^
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by the way, most of the anti firemen comments on this thread are from wind up merchants, just ignore them ;)
;D ;D ;D
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I wouldn't mind if they did some real fire fighting , like they do in New York and other American cities .
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This post doesnt wind me up , but i do like a good discussion with intelligent people .
We all pay taxes for people that don't work and never have , right or wrong thats what happens and has for a long time in this country.
I personally have always managed to find a job and have done some pretty crappy ones for low pay , but i would rather do that than sponge off the system.
The entire fire service is paid for from everyones taxes (including firefighters) , there is millions of pounds wasted every year on idiotic stuff that doesnt work , for instance regional control centres-billions wasted (and millions still being wasted on empty buildings), overpriced out of date I.T systems , and a ridiculously top heavy management structure to name but a few.
Regarding pensions , until recently the pension has been self funded , the people paying into the pension were paying the pensions of the retired firefighters (there has never been a pot of money that is invested and the pensions paid from . As the fire service has shrunk there is not enough people paying in to cover whats going out . Yes your right the taxpayer pays some of this contribution , like they do for nurses , teachers and all public sector workers - the difference is we pay around double the contributions so we can retire before we are too old to do the job.
Without a workable pension scheme a lot of firefighters would end up claiming benefits for ten years rather than claiming pension , because they too unfit for the job and cant access their pension until they are 67 .
So the taxpayer still ends up footing the bill and it will cost the taxpayer more .
The fire service is also very cheap , around fifty to sixty quid a year per household , wait until they privatise it and your paying 2- 3 hundred quid a year for a much worse service .
Also worth noting is that in the last ten years firefighter fatalities have doubled compared to the previous ten year period due to lack of investment in realistic training .
matey cmon learn! this whole thread has been a wind up and you keep
falling for it....let it go
this place is full of mad deranged window cleaners intelligent
discussion just isnt going to happen ;D
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;D
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just one little thing why would firemen be claiming benefits
they would be retiring from the fire service not life..they would have
to get another job like the rest of us until 67 and even then in the future
their will be many people working after retirement age.
its silly statements like that which get peoples backs up
if you were striking due to lack of investment in training which was costing lives
to yourselves and the people you were helping...you would get more support
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just one little thing why would firemen be claiming benefits
they would be retiring from the fire service not life..they would have
to get another job like the rest of us until 67 and even then in the future
their will be many people working after retirement age.
its silly statements like that which get peoples backs up
if you were striking due to lack of investment in training which was costing lives
to yourselves and the people you were helping...you would get more support
Having 60 year old firefighters will cost lives , there is no doubt about that.
In a less physical job working to 65/67 may not be a problem , office jobs etc .
Im not saying all firefighters will be on benefits but its difficult to retrain for anything else at that age .
By the way i know the thread is a wind up !
Its amazing how much more people appreciate us when they have had to call us out , i dont understand all the hatred that comes up towards firefighters .
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Like a lot of posts it might have started as a wind up, does that mean it has to stay
that way.
Roberts post certainly made me rethink my opinions on why fire fighters are resorting to strike action.
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Wasn't started as a wind up a all, but some people ended up winding themselves, and others, up.
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One thing we will all agree on, the greedy fat cat useless politicians who are changing
the fire fighters terms and conditions wont have to worry about their pensions.
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I think those calendars they bring out are great .
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just one little thing why would firemen be claiming benefits
they would be retiring from the fire service not life..they would have
to get another job like the rest of us until 67 and even then in the future
their will be many people working after retirement age.
its silly statements like that which get peoples backs up
if you were striking due to lack of investment in training which was costing lives
to yourselves and the people you were helping...you would get more support
Having 60 year old firefighters will cost lives , there is no doubt about that.
In a less physical job working to 65/67 may not be a problem , office jobs etc .
Im not saying all firefighters will be on benefits but its difficult to retrain for anything else at that age .
By the way i know the thread is a wind up !
Its amazing how much more people appreciate us when they have had to call us out , i dont understand all the hatred that comes up towards firefighters .
of course eople appreciate being helped...i wasnt on about that
i was talking about the silly statement you made and have continued making
its like only firefighters would have to retrain at again at a certain age...lots of people
have had to do this coming from various jobs and careers.
life can be tough and unfair but hey thats just the way it is, being
a firefighter makes you no different.
as mentioning hatred well thats just childish and makes you
sound sorry for yourself...hardly helps really
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your missing the point , and i dont fell sorry for myself , im glad i put in the hard work required to become a firefighter.
The point is we have been paying huge contribuitions to retire at that age , the money they are stealing from our pensions is to pay for bankers/politicians mistakes with the economy not to plug a hole in our pension.
Remember these politicians have lookad after there pay and pensions.
The mps pensions were changed to reflect the average length of there career (22000 pa pension after 13 years).
All in it together my my ar*e.
Its not just firefighter pensions they are stealing from , they are stealing from all of us in one way or another .
do we all stick together and fight them ?
no we bicker with each other instead.
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At the end of the day I think it's jealously, it's because I got in the service and others didn't, hang on phone is ringing.......you want your windows cleaning , Ye sure I will do that for you, kerching more dosh coming my way
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so jealousy and hatred eh! hardly good reasoned arguments
i personally have no problem with people in the fire service
fighting for what they believe in..but i can see why people
get irritated by some of the statements above.
if times were good and you were geting hit hard you would
get more sympathy
but things are crap and it always seems public sector works
of all kinds of ilk seem to do the most whingeing over what was
and what it should be
not everyone can down tools especially in private sector
the majority are too busy fighting to keep their heads above water
now, never mind in the future.please dont say you are representing
us all in this protest because things really arent like that are they!
like i said before i have been ripped off myself in pension plans
with millions of others...sometimes in life you just have to crack on
untill things get better..then address some of these issues
when things recover i guarantee people will have more sympathy
for your cause..but defo not at the moment when there are bigger
issues to solve than public sector/service workers pensions
anyways if things get really bad you have always got window cleaning
to get you through until you retire ;D
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The only answer is to privatise everything!! ;)
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I spent a few years driving buses (hated it but it paid the bills) , thats private sector and they have been stitched over and over , and they ballot pretty much every other year for strike action .
They have had pay rises every year during the economic downturn we are having (still have friends who work there), public sector had none for three years until we got 1% last year .
The pension i have from from that job is better than my fire service pension .
I have friends who drive trains and do 35 hours a week for 46000 a year salary and a good pension because they fight for it and have a strong union - private sector .
There are many private sector jobs that earn more than us and have better pensions and perks.
of course we could privatise everything so the tax payer doesnt have to pay for any of it.
Like the power companies - bills rising all the time , usually just before winter and they make massive profits.
The buses , now run privately and the service and state of vehicles etc is awful and tax payers still end up paying to run the non profitable routes because the bus companies cut them otherwise - they also make massive profits.
It wasnt me that said people are jealous , no reason to be as everyone has the same chance to join up if they want.
People moan about teachers , i know i couldnt do that job so i dont moan about whatever perks people think they have .
I also never said i was "representing us all"
I said as a country we should have more solidarity against our corrupt governments , labour , tories who ever they are all pigs feeding at a trough of our public money and dont even seem to be embarrassed about it.
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But I thought the thread was in jest , I'm only joining in the joke, or doesn't it work like that
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
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I spent a few years driving buses (hated it but it paid the bills) , thats private sector and they have been stitched over and over , and they ballot pretty much every other year for strike action .
They have had pay rises every year during the economic downturn we are having (still have friends who work there), public sector had none for three years until we got 1% last year .
The pension i have from from that job is better than my fire service pension .
I have friends who drive trains and do 35 hours a week for 46000 a year salary and a good pension because they fight for it and have a strong union - private sector .
There are many private sector jobs that earn more than us and have better pensions and perks.
of course we could privatise everything so the tax payer doesnt have to pay for any of it.
Like the power companies - bills rising all the time , usually just before winter and they make massive profits.
The buses , now run privately and the service and state of vehicles etc is awful and tax payers still end up paying to run the non profitable routes because the bus companies cut them otherwise - they also make massive profits.
It wasnt me that said people are jealous , no reason to be as everyone has the same chance to join up if they want.
People moan about teachers , i know i couldnt do that job so i dont moan about whatever perks people think they have .
I also never said i was "representing us all"
I said as a country we should have more solidarity against our corrupt governments , labour , tories who ever they are all pigs feeding at a trough of our public money and dont even seem to be embarrassed about it.
actually i never said you were representing the the rest of us..i asked you not
to say you would be ;D
jealousy reference wasnt aimed at yourself
maybe you should stop whingeing about the fire service pensions
and move to one of the other careers you mentioned you would be better
off and you do have the freedom of choice to do something else ;D...just
joking
here in birmingham we have a fantastic bus service
like i said before i have nothing against the fire service and i wish you
luck,personally i think that striking about anything that goes against
the public interest at this time is a bad move and support will be split
at best
thankyou for an interesting discussion :)
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out, but if it's flooding, then please stay away, as I think we will be able to manage, thank you.
I don't have a cat, so there's nothing to get stuck up a tree, and there are no railings around here into which anyone can get their head stuck.
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out, but if it's flooding, then please stay away, as I think we will be able to manage, thank you.
I don't have a cat, so there's nothing to get stuck up a tree, and there are no railings around here into which anyone can get their head stuck.
What if you get your big toe stuck in the bath tap? :D
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I spent a few years driving buses (hated it but it paid the bills) , thats private sector and they have been stitched over and over , and they ballot pretty much every other year for strike action .
They have had pay rises every year during the economic downturn we are having (still have friends who work there), public sector had none for three years until we got 1% last year .
The pension i have from from that job is better than my fire service pension .
I have friends who drive trains and do 35 hours a week for 46000 a year salary and a good pension because they fight for it and have a strong union - private sector .
There are many private sector jobs that earn more than us and have better pensions and perks.
of course we could privatise everything so the tax payer doesnt have to pay for any of it.
Like the power companies - bills rising all the time , usually just before winter and they make massive profits.
The buses , now run privately and the service and state of vehicles etc is awful and tax payers still end up paying to run the non profitable routes because the bus companies cut them otherwise - they also make massive profits.
It wasnt me that said people are jealous , no reason to be as everyone has the same chance to join up if they want.
People moan about teachers , i know i couldnt do that job so i dont moan about whatever perks people think they have .
I also never said i was "representing us all"
I said as a country we should have more solidarity against our corrupt governments , labour , tories who ever they are all pigs feeding at a trough of our public money and dont even seem to be embarrassed about it.
actually i never said you were representing the the rest of us..i asked you not
to say you would be ;D
jealousy reference wasnt aimed at yourself
maybe you should stop whingeing about the fire service pensions
and move to one of the other careers you mentioned you would be better
off and you do have the freedom of choice to do something else ;D...just
joking
here in birmingham we have a fantastic bus service
like i said before i have nothing against the fire service and i wish you
luck,personally i think that striking about anything that goes against
the public interest at this time is a bad move and support will be split
at best
thankyou for an interesting discussion :)
We have actually had a lot of support from the public so far .
Im always up for a good discussion , its the idiot trolls on here that ruin it .
My missus comes from up your way , leamington spa , she doesnt have the accent though :-)
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out, but if it's flooding, then please stay away, as I think we will be able to manage, thank you.
I don't have a cat, so there's nothing to get stuck up a tree, and there are no railings around here into which anyone can get their head stuck.
What if you get your big toe stuck in the bath tap? :D
That happened in a film I watched on vhs years ago , it was in german though so couldnt work out why the plumber took his clothes off .......
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out, but if it's flooding, then please stay away, as I think we will be able to manage, thank you.
I don't have a cat, so there's nothing to get stuck up a tree, and there are no railings around here into which anyone can get their head stuck.
What if you get your big toe stuck in the bath tap? :D
That happened in a film I watched on vhs years ago , it was in german though so couldnt work out why the plumber took his clothes off .......
Yeah that sounds like it probably was Geoff.
Was he wearing a Merkin? ;D
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I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out
Will do, but have your home insurance policy ready so we can check if you are covered
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I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out
Will do, but have your home insurance policy ready so we can check if you are covered
mate I have read your posts throughout this and you really do nothing to gain any support, you make some daft statements, robert is at least putting an interesting look on it all and worth talking to
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I clean windows to put bread on the table , like most people I have a second job to keep my family's head above the water
what is your take home pay? after deductions, monthly amount will do
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Why do you want to know how much I take home ?
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Why do you want to know how much I take home ?
because you claimed it was not enough to put bread on the table for your family, how big is your family?
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Nice and clean, the government are trying to privitise the brigade I work for, last month we had torrential rainfall in one day resulting in 220 calls in which we rescued 20 people , if it gets privatised like the government want, you will have to pay for this as we don't get funding for flooding incidents
I have to say that if we have a fire here, then do please turn out, but if it's flooding, then please stay away, as I think we will be able to manage, thank you.
I don't have a cat, so there's nothing to get stuck up a tree, and there are no railings around here into which anyone can get their head stuck.
What if you get your big toe stuck in the bath tap? :D
That happened in a film I watched on vhs years ago , it was in german though so couldnt work out why the plumber took his clothes off .......
Yeah that sounds like it probably was Geoff.
Was he wearing a Merkin? ;D
;D ;D
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I have 1 daughter who is 10 and my wife is disabled and wheelchair bound, she doesn't and can't work, hence working a second job to keep our heads above water
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I have 1 daughter who is 10 and my wife is disabled and wheelchair bound, she doesn't and can't work, hence working a second job to keep our heads above water
sorry to hear that but you never answered the question, before window cleaning how much do you earn a month after deductions?
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How much do you want me to say, cause regardless what I say it's going to be too much 900
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this forum really has gone down hill,
This was first said about three months after the forum began in 2003 I think it was, and has been repeated at regular intervals ever since.
The thing is, this forum doesn't exist all by itself; it takes a conceptual mind to create it. When you like what people say, you create it to be great, and when you don't like what people say you create it to be going downhill.
But that's a very self centred opinion.
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Well, it's also a bit like saying the country isn't what it used to be, etc. etc.
This forum certainly isn't like what Cleaning Pros used to be, but then again, how could it be? In fact, maybe this forum is EXACTLY how Cleaning Pros used to be, but both have changed so much, that really, no-one can tell the difference!
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http://www.rbfrs.co.uk/job_ff_wt_pay.html
I have no idea where you serve Panorama but her is some pay scales from a site, and if you cant buy bread with that then feck knows, bread must be dear where you live
not going to knock you for doing a second job but don't bleat is a necessity to feed the family please, it just makes normal paid folk outraged
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Agree with that.
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Sometimes you can get sidetracked into a point of view by reading certain media content. I think if we are honest we can be be a bit jealous of the kind of pay structure of firemen, but we should think of the risks involved.
If we make a mistake ( miss a window ) no big deal, if a fireman makes a mistake he could lose his own life, or that of another.
The title of the thread is incendiary, and the poster should stop to think about the hurt his comments could cause to those that risk their lives to make a wage !
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How can you say that Stuart m , you don't know my circumstances, the thread started has a dig at firemen been window cleaners, it then changed into a joke thread saying lighten up, and know it's turned into a dig again, does it really get under your skin that I have a second job ?, the industrial dispute is about pension, currently I pay 13% into my pension which is £320 per month, a couple of years ago I was paying 11% which was roughly £270 per month ,the government promised not to review it at that time for at least 10 years, they now want us to pay 15%, which will be around the £370 mark per month. Now the crux of the argument is fitness . At 55 men and womens fitness deteriorates rapidly. The government compiled a report to look into extending the retirement age to 60, it was compiled by their own expert, Dr tony Williams, he reported back and concluded that if the fitness level the government wanted to bring in were to be implemented, then 90% of female firefighters would be sacked before they reached 57, and 90% of males would be sacked before reaching 60 because they can't reach the fitness standard the government want to bring in, this will result in the pension been frozen until the age of 67. The government didnt like to hear this and have totally ignored there own review . Now some of you have mentioned your own pensions, for every £1 i put in , I get back £1, but to achieve that , I have to pay 13% of my wages into the scheme, I think the most you can put into a private pension is around the 5% mark, if that was the case in the fire service I would probably get about 30 pence for every pound I put in , this puts to bed government spin on gold plated pensions , the only ones who have gold played pensions are mps, who I hasten to add , have just took a pension holiday. If I came across pedantic earlier on then I apologise, but please visit the fbu website and get the true facts and don't be lead by government and sky news spin
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Totally agree samson
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Why do firemen need to be fit , sliding down poles and washing cars in front of the station isn't hard . Loads of pensioners do it every Sunday .
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Well said samson , its amazing how ungrateful some people are .
They are normally a lot more grateful when you have untangled them from their wrecked car or saved them from a fire , or even just saved their precious family photos etc .
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At the end of the day, we save people, but the pension is been used to save banks
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Geoff Lord is a funny guy who posts on the chat section of this forum. Always good for a wind up ;D It certainly got enough firemen wound up on this thread. ::)roll
I can't see the problem myself. I was in the army and covered the firt strike back in the 70's in the middle of a northern Ireland tour. So it was rescuing moggies in trees and putting out fires etc every day. On one day in particular had 5 bombs go off in Belfast city centre. I did that cover for a couple of weeks I think, and the adrenalin rushes were fantastic, except for when rescuing moggies of course.
I understand down time, and the urge to earn in that down time. Good luck to the guys in the service. I also understand how they feel about the government trying to steel their pensions.
The aggro on here against firemen baffles me. There's enough work for everyone, so if anyone feels threatened by someone else taking customers off them, those people need to decide if they're in the right job. If you find it hard to get customers, and hard to keep them or replace customers, you're probably in the wrong game.
Half the people in this game wouldn't even get a start if it wasn't for WFP. It's a great tool, but it's opened the job up to anyone with 2 left hands and a fear of working higher than 6 feet off the ground. Firemen, in general, don't have 2 left hands, or a fear of heights. This job is easier for some than others.
Stop having a pop at the firemen, and get better at what you do if you want to be in the game for the long run. Simple really.
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I think if we are honest we can be be a bit jealous of the kind of pay structure of firemen, but we should think of the risks involved.
The firemen tried to use this argument when they did the firestrikes in 2002, but under analysis, it didn't stand up to scrutiny. Take a look at the death and injury rates for yourself, then compare it with the army.
At the time of the 2002 strikes, the unions were asking for their buckshee firemen to be on the same pay as a Warrant Officer (like a Sergeant Major) in the army.
And if you compare what an army private gets paid to what the firemen were asking, it was just absolutely ridiculous.
Being a fireman is not that dangerous when you compare it with some other occupations, like soldiers. And like being a soldier, risk comes with the territory.
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Sometimes you can get sidetracked into a point of view by reading certain media content. I think if we are honest we can be be a bit jealous of the kind of pay structure of firemen, but we should think of the risks involved.
If we make a mistake ( miss a window ) no big deal, if a fireman makes a mistake he could lose his own life, or that of another.
The title of the thread is incendiary, and the poster should stop to think about the hurt his comments could cause to those that risk their lives to make a wage !
what a load of rubbish! the original post was a wind up if a grown up
cant either ignore it or give some wise ass a bit of abuse back then it is really
pathetic.if all fireman are that sensitive to critsism whether its valid or not
then they might aswell all give up ad go home
personally ive never wanted to be a fireman etc but if the someone
comes on and makes a serious statement which the poster did with with who
i had a discussion on a public forum i have every right to question whatthey are saying.
i feel they do a worthwhile job but as a member of the public
i feel its the wrong time with things being like they are to strike
over pensions.
i seriously doubt that if the fire service were putting across
their mesage like it has been on this forum they would get any support at
all.its never crossed my mind to critisise before i read this post.
maybe it would be best for the fire fighters on this forum maybe to
ignore these posts and leave their representation to the peoplewho have the
skills to do it...because this is doing you no favours
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Well said samson , its amazing how ungrateful some people are .
They are normally a lot more grateful when you have untangled them from their wrecked car or saved them from a fire , or even just saved their precious family photos etc .
dont do this matey...i had a good discussion with you yesterday
and took some of things you said on board.
the above post is childish and giving a poor representation of yourself
maybe frustration is getting the better of you..if it is maybe its a time
to take a step back from this post...because you will definately lose
the argument and support if you keep aking statements like that :)
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Being a fireman is not that dangerous when you compare it with some other occupations, like soldiers
For a moderator on here, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read since i joined this forum, you don't say
I will make no further comment on this thread
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Being a fireman is not that dangerous when you compare it with some other occupations, like soldiers
For a moderator on here, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read since i joined this forum, you don't say
I will make no further comment on this thread
I think it's a few years since the last firemen died; two in 2010. I can't find any others on the interweb. Now compare that with soldiers; and remember, for every soldier killed there's about five missing limbs and another ten with serious life changing injuries. And about 5 to 10 percent of all soldiers that've went to places like Afghanistan, they'll suffer with mental health problems like post traumatic stress disorder.
Don't bother commenting; just go and huff like a small child.
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I've found a statistic saying that 44 firefighters have died in the UK since 1978. That's not a bad statistic as it goes. I'd say fishermen have it more dangerous.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2013-10-13_11-28_wwwfiretacticscom-fbu_fatali_zps13b40b21.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tosh0987/media/2013-10-13_11-28_wwwfiretacticscom-fbu_fatali_zps13b40b21.jpg.html)
And no deaths at all between Feb 1996 and Oct 2002; that's not bad at all.
I bet more window cleaners have died during that period from falling off their ladders.
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Tosh , a fireman was killed earlier this year in manchester in a fire at a hairdressers , Stephen hunt.
I also agree with you about soldiers , my brother is having huge difficulties with what he experienced in iraq , he was involved in the longest and bloodiest battle in the iraq war as part of the queens dragoon guards working alongside the marines.
When he flew home he said to his wife that " he had to go and have a bath as i have my mates blood on me".
People see al the missing limbs etc but they don't see the mental scars , and there are many more people with ptsd than there are with physical injuries.
Seeing dead , children and babies , mass graves , constant shelling day and night and living with the fact you have killed people - not easy.
Firefighter deaths have doubled in the last ten years .
I think you will also find that any fireman you ask about the 2002 strikes will agree that it was ridiculous , the union then was very different.
This strike is not asking for a pay rise , its asking for what firefighters have already been paying for for years , just for the record im on the 2006 pension so it doesnt affect me as much as people on the original pension.
Its not just about firefighter deaths either , there are many injuries that mean you cant work again , shorter life expectancy due to breathing contaminants etc.
There is also the horrible things you see that sometimes keep you awake at night , something i have experienced myself recently .
Gary 999 i dont see your problem with my statement and i stick by it , its the truth .
How does it lose me the argument ?
Explain please .
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Why do you want to know how much I take home ?
because you claimed it was not enough to put bread on the table for your family, how big is your family?
Let them eat cake.
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Tosh , a fireman was killed earlier this year in manchester in a fire at a hairdressers , Stephen hunt.
That's sad, but it still does not mean it's a dangerous occupation. I bet more than one taxi driver has been killed in the course of his/her duties this year.
I know for a fact there's been at least one window cleaner paralyse himself from the neck down (I'd prefer death myself).
My point is firefighting is not a dangerous job. Yes, fire-fighters die in the course of their duties, and every death is a tragedy for those concerned, but when you compare them to our armed forces - which is what Panarama called 'ridiculous' - it is not as dangerous.
I brought the point up because Samson said it was a dangerous occupation and Panarmara agreed. I don't think it is; the evidence shows it's not. And a small number that's doubled, is still a small number. 10 or even 20 deaths in however many years is nothing compared to the deaths, the amputations, the life-changing injuries and the mental health problems that the armed forces suffer.
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Tosh , a fireman was killed earlier this year in manchester in a fire at a hairdressers , Stephen hunt.
I also agree with you about soldiers , my brother is having huge difficulties with what he experienced in iraq , he was involved in the longest and bloodiest battle in the iraq war as part of the queens dragoon guards working alongside the marines.
When he flew home he said to his wife that " he had to go and have a bath as i have my mates blood on me".
People see al the missing limbs etc but they don't see the mental scars , and there are many more people with ptsd than there are with physical injuries.
Seeing dead , children and babies , mass graves , constant shelling day and night and living with the fact you have killed people - not easy.
Firefighter deaths have doubled in the last ten years .
I think you will also find that any fireman you ask about the 2002 strikes will agree that it was ridiculous , the union then was very different.
This strike is not asking for a pay rise , its asking for what firefighters have already been paying for for years , just for the record im on the 2006 pension so it doesnt affect me as much as people on the original pension.
Its not just about firefighter deaths either , there are many injuries that mean you cant work again , shorter life expectancy due to breathing contaminants etc.
There is also the horrible things you see that sometimes keep you awake at night , something i have experienced myself recently .
Gary 999 i dont see your problem with my statement and i stick by it , its the truth .
How does it lose me the argument ?
Explain please .
truth or not it is irelevant
ive had a member of family rescued from a serious accident and we
will always be grateful to the fire service and also to the ambulance
service who kept her alive on the way to hospital...i also grateful to
the specialist who operated and cured her ills so she could carry on
living and the doctors nurses physiotherapists and physcotherapists
in her rehabilitation to get her back to where she is now..
i will always be grateful to all these people...but this mean i dont
have the right to question the policy and the reason why you are
considering stike action which could possibly leave somebody else
without help.
yes i do have the right...if you were striking against funds for infrastructure
and training being withdrawn which would save people lives you would
have my unequivicol support.
but as things stand in this country arguments over pensions
far as im concerned should not be high on the agenda so i dont agree with it.
your high handed childish statement which to me comes across arrogant
will win you no friends especially if you spout crap such as that to the
general public no matter how factual it is.
dont bother answering yu have completely left me disinterested
in your cause now ::)roll
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Tosh , i agree with you about the army totally and think they deserve to be treated much better.
The main argument though is about fitness and pension age , not about how dangerous the job is , thats why i didn t bring it up.
I have been drawn into it a bit though.
my point about the number of firefighters dying is that the figure is going up , the reason for this is investing the fire service budgets in the wrong way .
So much money is wasted on pointless stuff leaving less for the important stuff, the waste that goes in the public sector really annoys me .
Even little things like spending £300 fixing an £80 printer and the big things like fire control project.
Dont get me started on the endless amounts of managers and I.T staff etc .
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gary999
Im being honest about the facts , dont see a problem with that .
And the strike is about safety , public safety and firefighter safety.
I certainly wouldnt want a truck full of 58/59 year olds turning up if my kids were trapped in a fire .
There is already a higher than average amount of heart attacks in the fire service due to the sudden nature of the job , that will climb even higher when there are people in there late fifties riding the appliances .
more people will die because of these proposals.
All taxpayers have the right to question the reasons for our strike and also the policys of the government ,fire ministers etc.
Boris johnson is closing ten stations and losing nearly six hundred firefighters in london at a time when fire deaths in the home are rising in that area.
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your high handed childish statement which to me comes across arrogant
will win you no friends especially if you spout crap such as that to the
general public no matter how factual it is.
dont bother answering yu have completely left me disinterested
in your cause now ::)roll
Your pet lip, Gary, go take it for a walk somewhere. You sound like Dramarama getting a childish huff on.
At all times, remember it's just the interweb.
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sorry tosh havent got the huff at all
its my opinion in fact some of the posts on here have been huffy
mine arent..the post gave me the impression we should all be that
grateful that we arent allowed to disagree with their position..if ive
got the wrong end of the stick fair enough!
but as for having a huff i really dont think so
but hey your entitled to your opinion...and we know how much you value
it ;D
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Completely the wrong end of the stick , and you do sound huffy .
This is the problem when not discussing face to face , people take things the wrong way .
Im not even remotely arrogant , but I do hate it when people are ripped off .
The government take the banks to task over ppi mis selling then act the same way with our pensions .
Their pensions however have been improved .
The money they want to save could easily be saved in other ways without detriment to the service recieved by the public or any detriment to firefighters .
There is so much waste that could be avoided if they listened to the people that actually do the work instead of out of touch senior managers .
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not huffy at all i see your point of view now you have
stated it more clearly...yours wasnt the only view i was reading either
other views on here from the fire service quoting figures of
loss and sarcasm of jealousy etc hardly helps to make the point
does it really.
like ive said before i can see your point of view but
still dont agree..wrong time at this moment bigger issues
to solve and at this time i can only see this being twisted
against you if you do strike by the media and the powers
that be!
i shall leave it like that now,before chucky comes on again
and get his head spinning again in delight by my badly percieved behaviour
best of luck
Gary :)
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I have 1 daughter who is 10 and my wife is disabled and wheelchair bound, she doesn't and can't work, hence working a second job to keep our heads above water
I realise this is a side issue but, if you are struggling, are you aware that DLA is not means tested? Also, if they have turned down previous applications for DLA, it is worth appealing - multiple times if necessary.
Don't read this the wrong way. I'm not putting the boot in like some of the pee takers. It's genuine info.
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this forum really has gone down hill,
This was first said about three months after the forum began in 2003 I think it was, and has been repeated at regular intervals ever since.
The thing is, this forum doesn't exist all by itself; it takes a conceptual mind to create it. When you like what people say, you create it to be great, and when you don't like what people say you create it to be going downhill.
But that's a very self centred opinion.
I thought it only went downhill after I joined ;D
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this forum really has gone down hill,
This was first said about three months after the forum began in 2003 I think it was, and has been repeated at regular intervals ever since.
The thing is, this forum doesn't exist all by itself; it takes a conceptual mind to create it. When you like what people say, you create it to be great, and when you don't like what people say you create it to be going downhill.
But that's a very self centred opinion.
I thought it only went downhill after I joined ;D
it did ;D ;D ;D
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right, back on subject, well for me anyway as I would like to hear facts, to any fire fighters reading this
what age do you work to at the moment?
what age is the new proposals expecting you to work to?
if you do leave is there a resettlement package for return to normal working life?
Is there scope for saying when you reach a certain age that you move into more administrative jobs?
you actually have me nearly onside but was just wondering on the above
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The original pension was 30 years with compulsory retirement at 55 .
The new pension 2006 is 40 years and retire at 60 , the union never agreed this but couldnt strike at the time because nobody was on it yet .
The 2006 pension said that at 55 you would move to non active role .
There are nowhere near enough of those jobs to go round , at last check a few weeks ago there were three vacancies nationwide .
There is no ressettlement package .
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The original pension was 30 years with compulsory retirement at 55 .
The new pension 2006 is 40 years and retire at 60 , the union never agreed this but couldnt strike at the time because nobody was on it yet .
The 2006 pension said that at 55 you would move to non active role .
There are nowhere near enough of those jobs to go round , at last check a few weeks ago there were three vacancies nationwide .
There is no ressettlement package .
thanks for answering, strike away you have my support
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tosh quoted figures about fire-fighter not being a dangerous job,fiq tell us that
but really to turn up to a burning building and go in side if dangerous to me more than the fiq could quote.
few guys I train with are fighters and they have my support.
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Of course its dangerous , thats why need to have the right mindset and obviously training plays a big part .
Thats why more firefighters are dying now , lack of investment in realistic training facilities .
And thanks for your support , we actually have a lot of public support which we are all grateful for .
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Here is a leaflet that explains some of it.
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This is the williams report that was commisioned by the government , a bit heavy going to read it all but its worth reading the conclusions and recommendations at the end if your interested in why we are striking .
The government are ignoring all these reccomendations meaning if im not to fit to work after 55 i lose upto half of my earned pension
as well as not being able to draw anything until im 67 .
Also worth knowing that if only 7% of firefighters opt out all the money they are trying to save will be lost , any more than 7% and they are worse off than they are now and the pension would have to propped up by more taxpayers money.
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100% behind the Fire fighters most just want to keep their families in a good standard of living just like us.
Plenty of work to go round.
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At least they have a pension to look forward to.
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Thanks for your support stephen , your right there is loads of work out there if your willing to go and get it .
Dave , not really sure what your getting at ?
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What I'm getting at is that Firemen, Teachers, Police or whatever are still relatively fortunate in a) still having a job, b) a reasonably well paid one and c) still having a pension to look forward to eventually.
Most of us have had the pay cuts, the overtime cuts, been told to work 'till we drop the redundancy (with pathetic payouts) and loss of much of our pensions. Teachers in my opinion have little to complain about.
why do you think I'm now cleaning windows?
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The pension is not free , we pay more than double what most people pay - public or private sector .
Cant comment on teachers , I dont do there job and Im pretty sure I couldn't.
Everyone has the choice of what career they pursue .
I personally have had some awful jobs in my time , thats why I I pushed myself hard to get a job I enjoy .
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What I'm trying to say (nicely) is that most of us have been through it already years ago with no option to strike. many of us were told in our jobs 'if you don't like it then bugger off down the road!'
I lost my chosen career, I lost much of my pension, I lost the choice to retire early - I lost my job. The Firemen are going through what many of us had to endure years ago.
Cleaning windows for me was a desperate move which luckily so far has worked out well.
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Yea we have a pension which we pay into!!
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so did I whilst I had a job - many fellow employees carried on contributing, only the employers 'forgot' about passing the payments on to the pension fund.
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No reason to have a go out public sector pensions though is it?? If you know what your worth go out and get it bud
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What I'm trying to say (nicely) is that most of us have been through it already years ago with no option to strike. many of us were told in our jobs 'if you don't like it then bugger off down the road!'
I lost my chosen career, I lost much of my pension, I lost the choice to retire early - I lost my job. The Firemen are going through what many of us had to endure years ago.
Cleaning windows for me was a desperate move which luckily so far has worked out well.
Does that make it right Dave,
Same thing that happened to you happened to me and has also happened to a lot more.
At the end of the day if you agreed to do a job for £1000 and the customer decided to pay you £500
would you be happy.
The fire fighters agreed to do a job for the government for an agreed wage and pension ( a contract )
What the government wants to do now is break that contract and pay less than agreed.
Its the same as a customer ripping you or me off.
Doesn't matter if you think they should get it or not a contract is a contract.
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Are these the people who are trying to nick your pensions lads?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1381780897_1395906_605756906137434_1153558559_n.jpg)
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5 letter word rymes with munts
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Are these the people who are trying to nick your pensions lads?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1381780897_1395906_605756906137434_1153558559_n.jpg)
unfortunately if this issue gets pushed at this time...they will
get away with it.
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Yep thats the greedy lying theives .
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Statistically you will be involved in 2 major fires in your life, let's see who you count on if your involved in one
Balls.
45,000 fires in dwellings two years ago. (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6762/568234.pdf). That includes ALL fires in dwellings, e.g. chip pan.
If I live to be 70, therell have been 3 million fires in total. So there's a 1 in 20 chance Ill ever be in even a minor fire in a dwelling. Increase that to all indoor fires (80,000) and your statistic is still just plain wrong.
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As a service we do loads of prevention work and this has caused fire deaths to drop a lot.(apart from in london where it has recently started to climb).
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Well, it seems that they will be too old to climb ladders to fight fires at age 60, so we should see less of them climbing ladders at 60 to clean windows. Here's a vid showing real geriatric firemen on strike last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24780162 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24780162)
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I thought firemen went through routine fitness tests, surely their fitness is part of their contract to do the job, if a firemen cannot maintain his fitness till the age of sixty then he should be fired as he is no longer fit for purpose this should happen at any age.
I know some firemen pride themselves in keeping extremely fit and these will have no trouble maintaining fitness well into their sixties others are just pie eating slobs and should be removed from service well before they reach this point
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What a disgusting union you guys belong to. Encouraging you not to 'breach the terms of your agreement' to tackle the large dagenham blaze because no lives were threatened.
Fair play to the London firefighters that tackled the blaze but you guys are really starting to lose the publics respect thanks to the actions of your union.
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You speak for all of the public do you ?
Apart from this forum we actually have a lot of public support.
The agreement with the government was that we would come off the picket line if life was in danger , there was no life risk.
Trevor , you dont have all the facts .
Most of the people affected by this change have been paying double the average contributions into there pension so they can retire at 55 before they are too old to do the job safely, the government s own research shows that 85% of firefighters will be unable to pass the fitness tests past thr age of 55 , this is due to ageing not lack of excercise.
As you get older the physiological effects of heat on your body become much worse in your fifties causing all sorts of problems including heart attacks .
The government are stealing from pensions that have already been paid for .
Yet the mps are still trying to push through there own 11% pay rise .
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Of course I don't speak for the public as a whole, do you speak for firefighters as a whole?
Was you at the pocket line yourself? How long for?
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You speak for all of the public do you ?
Apart from this forum we actually have a lot of public support.
The agreement with the government was that we would come off the picket line if life was in danger , there was no life risk.
Trevor , you dont have all the facts .
Most of the people affected by this change have been paying double the average contributions into there pension so they can retire at 55 before they are too old to do the job safely, the government s own research shows that 85% of firefighters will be unable to pass the fitness tests past thr age of 55 , this is due to ageing not lack of excercise.
As you get older the physiological effects of heat on your body become much worse in your fifties causing all sorts of problems including heart attacks .
The government are stealing from pensions that have already been paid for .
Yet the mps are still trying to push through there own 11% pay rise .
as for your pensions you should be paid according to what you have paid in and the government has no right to steal from that pot, but is this the case or have the pensions just underperformed and they are not paying what you was told to expect.
You are right I don't have all the details but I presume firefighters paid so much into the funds because the deal they got offered at the time seemed to good to be true well I guess now you are learning that the deal was to good to be true and like other hardworking individuals are suffering big shortfalls in your pensions, I don't have any answers and feel sorry for any who have been duped.
The only lesson that can be learned by everyone from this is do not trust the government or any other large organisation to take care of your pension rather make your own provision, currently everyone is going to be enrolled into a new pension scheme where the employer has to add a percentage to the fund , most think this is wonderfull but personally I don't think the funds will exist when its time for them to pay up as the saying goes" fool me once shame on you, foolme again shame on me"
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No and I dont pretend to but most firefighters are united over these issues .
I also have the facts rather than just what you read in the paper or see on the news .
Brandon lewis has been using spin and pure lies to try and erode public support while our union ( that have held off from action for over two years now ) are telling the public the facts .
You said the union is losing the publics respect so your inferring that you are speaking for the public .
If its lost your respect , even though your not in possession of all the facts , thats fine but dont try and speak for everyone .
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The fact is that your union wanted the London firefighters to not cross the picket to tackle the Dagenham blaze. Don't tell me Im a puppet to the media when that is the only point I raised. Is it true or not?
Also you forgot to mention how long you personally spent on the pocket line?
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The pension Has never been too good to be true , its always been an expensive pension to pay into on the understanding you retire at 55 after 30 years service , it used to be compulsory retirement at 55 for a reason .
The same reason soldiers retire from active service at 45 .
You have to remember its the government own research that says we shouldnt be working past 55 and they are ignoring it.
This is to save a few million , less money than we send to india in aid ( even though they have just built an aircraft carrier!) , hs2 50 billion etc etc .
Its ludicrous .
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Correct , they did and quite rightly so .
The government are refusing to even talk to the union and there was no life risk at this incident .
How about everybody in the country stops fighting and lets the government do whatever they want to who ever they want .
Let them cut everything to the bone , police , fire, army etc while they send hundreds of millions abroad and waste billions on pointless crap.
Lets carry on with the race to the bottom so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Has nobody in this country got any backbone anymore?
I have travelled sixty miles while off duty to attend the picket line at my station , not that its any of your business .
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http://www.fbu.org.uk/?p=7758
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You keep regurgitating the union spiel whilst being amongst the highest paid part timers in the country.
Very noble of you to attend the picket line whilst being off duty too, pat yourself on the back.
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well, the forecast was rain yesterday! ;D
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You keep regurgitating the union spiel whilst being amongst the highest paid part timers in the country.
Very noble of you to attend the picket line whilst being off duty too, pat yourself on the back.
Since when are they part time I thought they did 42 hours a week?
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You keep regurgitating the union spiel whilst being amongst the highest paid part timers in the country.
Very noble of you to attend the picket line whilst being off duty too, pat yourself on the back.
You asked me about picketing and I answered , do you not have an intelligent comment ?
We do 48 hours over 4 shifts on a four on four off basis in case you cant do the maths that works out to 42 hours a week .
Thats not part time .
Just for instance train drivers at southwest trains do 35 hours a week for 45000 a year and we put more subsidies into public transport than we did before privatisation .
Do they still drive the trains when they strike ?
The government own figures show that if more than 7% opt out of the pension they lose qll the savings they are trying to make , already 25% of new starters are opting out.
What they are doing doesnt even make any financial sense.
Except of course the shareholders of whatever company ends up running the privatised fire service in the near future .
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Im not regurgitating union spiel , im explaining the facts without any spin , unlike our dishonest government .
If you think its such a cushy , highly paid job why have you not applied ?
Feel free to come back with an intelligent comment rather than resorting to sarcasm .
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Its strange how windies come on here telling everyone how fantastic it is on the windows, flexibility, hourly rate others can only dream of etc.
Then have a go at someone else who they perceive as having a decent working life.
I've done my share of 4 on 4 off and yes it is nice to have days off which amount to 3.5 days off every 8 days (allowing for when you get out of bed on your last night shift)
But its no picnic having to reverse your body clock twice every 8 days plus you work all the unsociable hours and miss out on the majority of weekends.
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well you could rest on your days off I suppose?
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Not forgetting this is a windowcleaners forum and not a firemans forum you could be winding a few windowcleaners up I would imagine?
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well you could rest on your days off I suppose?
If that keeps windies happy perhaps that's what the firemen should do? ;D
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Not forgetting this is a windowcleaners forum and not a firemans forum you could be winding a few windowcleaners up I would imagine?
This thread was started by a window cleaner not a fireman .
I welcome a decent intelligent discussion based on fact .
I dont see the point in childish attacks on people that work hard to protect the public , risk there lives and have to live with all the horroble things they see, especially when there arguments are based on what they have read in the sun or heard on the news .
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Well, they are rest days - that's what they are for. Imagine if the Government gets wind of how easy a Firemans job is that they have the energy to work another job on their days off?
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You could of course turn your argument on it's head and say - why not chuck the Firemans job in and become a windowcleaner?
Not being funny but out of those 42 hours how many are you actually "working". I don't know anything about your job but the impression I get is that it's all or nothing. I did think about becoming a Fireman once but I'm crap at volleyball ;)
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So we should spend our days off asleep ?
Or on the sofa .
What if we want to play football or go to the gym on days off , should that be banned too ?
They are rest days after all !
Am I allowed to dig over my garden on my rest days or would that mean my job is too easy ?
How many times have you got home from window cleaning heartbroken and tearful at what you have seen that day ?
Ever had to do 20 mins cpr on someone you know is already dead while kneeling in a pool of there blood ? Someone only 18 years old .
Those images dont just disappear when you leave the job .
If you think its so easy , sign up and do it .
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Anybody is entitled to work a second job , evening job , weekend job whatever .
Its not exclusively for firefighters and ours is not the only job that does four on four off .
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Chuck the job?
Why don't police become window cleaners? Is it a ladder thing or are they paid more?
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Thanks for your support stephen , your right there is loads of work out there if your willing to go and get it .
Dave , not really sure what your getting at ?
Think Dave was saying he hasn't got a pension.
I haven't either.
Don't pay into one other than what is demanded.
By the time I get to claiming one there'll be even less than what's 'available' now.
Seeing as the country is £1.3tn in debt that won't be much.
Look after yourself and your family.
No-one else will care when push comes to shove.
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We do 48 hours over 4 shifts on a four on four off basis in case you cant do the maths that works out to 42 hours a week .
Thats not part time .
I dont know anyone who works 48 hours and still holds another job. I might be unusual, so do you know anyone who is not a fireman who manages that? That suggests to me that youre not "working" those 48 hours you claim.
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Just banter really. It's a tradition that Firemen clean windows on there days off - I presume it's because they like ladders?
The point about witnessing people dying - unfortunately it comes with the job - does it mean you should get more money for it - I don't know but if you find it unpleasant and it gives you nightmares then get out. Nurses do the same and so do Police and Ambulance services.
I just can't fathom out why Firemen need two jobs when Police etc don't.
My parents were skint when I was growing up, my dad was a Policeman. I'm sure he wasn't allowed a second job it was called moonlighting I think and he was too knackered to do it anyway.
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We work 42 hours a week , and yes i do know people with evening and weekend jobs including a police officer .
There is pretty much zero overtime in the fire service .
For the record we are not asking for more money .
Anyone who doesnt find those kind of things unpleasant is not normal , that doesnt mean i dont want to do it.
I like the feeling you get when you know you have helped someone or even saved there life , or just saved there irreplaceable heirlooms/photos .
I just dont think people should be saying its easy when they have not done the job themselves , i wouldn't do that for other jobs.
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So, why the need for a second job? If the money is that poor why aren't you striking for more money? ???
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Like us all when we get older, they want to feather their nest so that they are nice and comfy in their 'old age', which they seem to think is when they reach 50!
Ha ha! I have no option but to carry on until I drop dead, but these guys want a nice office job when they get to 50.
It'd be a sad day when I fireman's family dies in a fire because the fire service told them to stay on strike, it really will be. But it will also be the end of the union too. That's bad, because I think unions are a force for good for everyday mundane stuff, but this is playing with fire. Pun not intended.
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I do a second job so i can earn the £ 10000 a month for working 10-3 four days a week like all the rich window cleaners on here ;D
I do a second job for a few reasons , my take home pay has been eroded by ever increasing pension contributions and only a 1% pay rise in the last four years.
It works out with the rise in the cost of living on top of pension contribution increases that my wages are worth roughly 25% less than they were four years ago so i need the money .
I also want to provide a good life for my misses and my children , dont see anything wrong with that .
Doing a second job also means that i dont have to claim family tax credit .
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So ... you're underpaid?
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robert...like stated before i really dont think you can win this battle
at this time..too many people are scratching around trying to make a living
to care about retirement at 60 and your pension.
i think you over estimate the support you have at this time..i havent
spoken to anyone personally who supports your strikes...i know its not
everyone before you say anything.
i dont believe personally there is any real dislike of firemen/women thats
reserved for teachers ;D there are just more pressing concerns.
i really do believe that striking at this time is a mistake..god forbid
there isnt a major incident that costs lives whilst you are striking
it will leave you wide open to attack from all quarters especially the
lying cheating bleeders that run this country.
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Like us all when we get older, they want to feather their nest so that they are nice and comfy in their 'old age', which they seem to think is when they reach 50!
Ha ha! I have no option but to carry on until I drop dead, but these guys want a nice office job when they get to 50.
It'd be a sad day when I fireman's family dies in a fire because the fire service told them to stay on strike, it really will be. But it will also be the end of the union too. That's bad, because I think unions are a force for good for everyday mundane stuff, but this is playing with fire. Pun not intended.
You really dont have the slightest clue do you?
There are no office jobs , nobody is asking to retire at 50 , its 55.
The reasons why firefighters should not work past that age is well documented in the governments own research AND that has been paid for by firefighters paying double the average pension contributions of any other job- PAID FOR!
If your mortgage company told you your mortgage was going to be five years longer but you would only own 50% of your house at the end AND your payments are going to double - would you just say hey ho and let them do it?
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robert...like stated before i really dont think you can win this battle
at this time..too many people are scratching around trying to make a living
to care about retirement at 60 and your pension.
i think you over estimate the support you have at this time..i havent
spoken to anyone personally who supports your strikes...i know its not
everyone before you say anything.
i dont believe personally there is any real dislike of firemen/women thats
reserved for teachers ;D there are just more pressing concerns.
i really do believe that striking at this time is a mistake..god forbid
there isnt a major incident that costs lives whilst you are striking
it will leave you wide open to attack from all quarters especially the
lying cheating bleeders that run this country.
I generally follow this line ^.
We all need the firemen, we know that, in some way we are all co-dependent on each other, but I too have a feeling that this is not a good time for making such demands.
That said, I hate the idea that the energy industry adds on another 10% to our bills, which we ALL have to say, firemen or not.
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So ... you're underpaid?
You could argue a lot of jobs are underpaid , thats a different subject really .
I personally think soldiers are massively underpaid and pretty much left to rot when they leave the army , i also think they deserve the generous pension they had (now being hit by the government i believe) .
Is it right that a new soldier is on 19000 when they start yet a train driver gets 45000?
Its a different and quite big subject , for me personally i think its about right but should keep up with inflation but so should other jobs too .
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Does nobody understand the dispute ?
The firefighters are not making any demands , we are not even saying the pension shouldnt change .
The government are imposing unfair demands on us and will not even get round the table and have any meaningful discussions.
This is about health and safety as well as the no job no pension issue.
More firefighters will die on the job , more members of the public will be injured or die because of these changes .
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What do your employers and indeed union think of it's members/employees having two jobs? What are the tax implications?
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Does nobody understand the dispute ?
The firefighters are not making any demands , we are not even saying the pension shouldnt change .
The government are imposing unfair demands on us and will not even get round the table and have any meaningful discussions.
This is about health and safety as well as the no job no pension issue.
More firefighters will die on the job , more members of the public will be injured or die because of these changes .
To be honest many members of the public couldn't give a toss I would imagine. Most of them have suffered allready and are clinging on to crap paid jobs with crap working conditions and crap pensions. i can't see you lot opening the floodgates somehow. Good luck though.
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What do your employers and indeed union think of it's members/employees having two jobs? What are the tax implications?
As long as it doesnt interfere with your performance in your firefighting duties they have no problem with it .
They have no legal right to stop you working on your days off , regardless of what your job is , anyone can have a second job (excluding the armed forces as they are technically paid 24/7).
Im not sure what you mean by tax implications ?
If your second job is self employed you do a tax return , if its employed its done on p.a.y.e .
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i disagree , i think the public do care about the fire service, police, nhs etc being cut back .
How much do you think the fire brigade costs you?
Most of my friends work in private sector jobs and are on more money than me and get pay rises every year .
my old job was private sector and had a better pension than the one i have in the fire service.
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My wife works part time and took on a second job - she got hammered for tax on it because her tax allowance was only on the first job (I think ???)
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if your tax allowance is used up on your first job you will pay 20% tax on every pound you earn in your second job , no different to earning an extra ten grand in your main job , everything over the allowance is taxed at 20% or 40% if you go into the next tax bracket up.
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i say one thing if you dont like the conditions get another job , but you wont because you know you have a good thing
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also it came out recently the some police have a second job , didnt the firemen get a 14 % pay rise not long ago
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i say one thing if you dont like the conditions get another job , but you wont because you know you have a good thing
This quote makes no sense .
I have no problem with the conditions i signed up to , unfortunately the government thinks its ok to steal from our pensions to pay for the greedy bankers and inept politicians mistakes .
What there doing is no different to what rupert murdoch did , its theft plain and simple.
Its not realistic for firefighters to continue on frontline service in there late fifties , this has been proved by the governments own research .
maybe read the whole thread before you post.
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The fire service got a three year pay deal about eleven years ago , they were on dire wages back then.
Just out of interest , the 2002 strikes came about after the government had a job appraisal done by an independent body and it came back that due to range of work and responsibilities they should be on 30k a year , that was the governments report - not the union .
Most firefighters that were in then will agree that the 2002 strikes were a mistake and they ended up worse off.
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So if you leave a job with a pension at 55 or 60 why can't you get another job? Why should self employed taxpayers keep you another 10-12 years until you reach the state pension age? If you take a commuted pension you can work part time or be a windy! Oh you do that already ...
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whats the diffrence between you and anyone else that have to retire at 65 , i think you had the pay rise before nine 11 years ago because i remember a firman giving me his round and he said dont need to do window cleaning anymore as had a big rise
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you make me laugh you say you dont want to work till your 65 yet soilders have no choice and why do you strike near bonfire night if you all care about the public , fireman walked of a fire yesterday didnt they even your boss said it was unbelivable , you wont be getting any support of the public they are feeling it so should the firemen , millions on the dole looking for a job , firemens jobs have always been kept in house
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The fire service allows you to have a second job as it relies on many using the fire service as their second job , for example I have been a retained fire fighter for 24 years but I have just been forced to finish due to a bad hand. During that time I have been in the picket line, I have had to sign a disclaimer opting out of the working time directive as my previous job was working 48hrs p/week.
I fully understand why the union is having to take these actions and I fully support them, and I'm sure if those of you who are mocking the situation actually knew the whole truth and facts about the situation then I feel very confident you would change your tune.
So Rob and anyone else who is in this battle keep going don't give into the robbing scumbags. I'd love to see any of them running into a burning building with all a B.A set on their back and dragging a 45mm fully charged hose in tempretures of 1000 degrees at the age of 60 it would be suicide
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So if you leave a job with a pension at 55 or 60 why can't you get another job? Why should self employed taxpayers keep you another 10-12 years until you reach the state pension age? If you take a commuted pension you can work part time or be a windy! Oh you do that already ...
I have no problem with that as long as they halve my pension contributions so they are in line with the average rather than double the average.
What exactly are your objections to me working as a window cleaner in my own time?
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The fire service allows you to have a second job as it relies on many using the fire service as their second job , for example I have been a retained fire fighter for 24 years but I have just been forced to finish due to a bad hand. During that time I have been in the picket line, I have had to sign a disclaimer opting out of the working time directive as my previous job was working 48hrs p/week.
I fully understand why the union is having to take these actions and I fully support them, and I'm sure if those of you who are mocking the situation actually knew the whole truth and facts about the situation then I feel very confident you would change your tune.
So Rob and anyone else who is in this battle keep going don't give into the robbing scumbags. I'd love to see any of them running into a burning building with all a B.A set on their back and dragging a 45mm fully charged hose in tempretures of 1000 degrees at the age of 60 it would be suicide
Well said and thanks for your support , even though most of the retained are in a different union the support from them , in my area at least , has been really good .
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let me get this right correct me if i am wrong your pension it is a goverment pension same as teachers , army , council workers
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Rob just for your information I have been a fbu member for 24 years all of my station are fbu members and the majority of my brigade are fbu members as the RFU are a waste of time ;)
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you make me laugh you say you dont want to work till your 65 yet soilders have no choice and why do you strike near bonfire night if you all care about the public , fireman walked of a fire yesterday didnt they even your boss said it was unbelivable , you wont be getting any support of the public they are feeling it so should the firemen , millions on the dole looking for a job , firemens jobs have always been kept in house
I hardly know where to start with your rambling post.
soldiers dont work until 65 or even 60 , they retire from frontline service at 45 and get part of there pension straight away and this then goes up to there full pension at 60 depending on time served- get your facts straight before posting.
What do you mean by jobs kept in house???
I applied by downloading a form from there website , and didnt know anybody in the job.
As for the dagenham fire , crews left the scene once there was no longer a life risk , as agreed with the government.
It was not whats called a "major incident " and we stuck by our agreement regarding life risk/major incident recall .
If you want to read two pages of a4 i can post all the facts up for you.
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David , down here most of the retained are rfu but have still supported us .
Your right about the rfu.
I think the rfu should merge into the fbu.
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let me get this right correct me if i am wrong your pension it is a goverment pension same as teachers , army , council workers
yes , whats your point?
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I'd love to see any of them running into a burning building with all a B.A set on their back and dragging a 45mm fully charged hose in tempretures of 1000 degrees at the age of 60 it would be suicide
Id love to see some of the peeps on here running out a 70mm hose mate, let alone wear BA and go into a burning building lol. ;D
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I'd love to see any of them running into a burning building with all a B.A set on their back and dragging a 45mm fully charged hose in tempretures of 1000 degrees at the age of 60 it would be suicide
Id love to see some of the peeps on here running out a 70mm hose mate, let alone wear BA and go into a burning building lol. ;D
Maybe we should set up a" hose tuesday" drill for them , only 55-60 years olds allowed though!
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Id challenge the younger ones to this mate, lol. See how many lengths they can run out and make up before saying "stuff this" ;D
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my point is why should a say flagger for the council have to work till he is 65 and a fireman doesnt , ok my point of view is yes maybe you cant be a fireman but why cant you get another job after getting too old to be a fireman , everyone else who not able to do there job gets a diffrent job , or should everyone who not able to orriganal job be paid of and retire .
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my point is why should a say flagger for the council have to work till he is 65 and a fireman doesnt , ok my point of view is yes maybe you cant be a fireman but why cant you get another job after getting too old to be a fireman , everyone else who not able to do there job gets a diffrent job , or should everyone who not able to orriganal job be paid of and retire .
Read the posts , we pay double the average contributions , it has always been that way to pay for retiring at 55.
On the one hand you say millions of unemployed ,nobody can get jobs but you think a 55 year old with no useful qualifications will get a job at the snap of there fingers?
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The "flagger" on the council at 65 year old will still be paying his contributions ten years after you've retired?
And why can't you get a job at ASDA, B and Q or increase your windie work?
What % contribution do you pay?
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the fps scheme contributions are now about 14% just over .
A teacher on the same salary , just over 7%
A nusrse on the closest pay scale to ours , just under 7%
The average employee contribution in private sector defined benefit schemes was 5% in 2011 .
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i disagree , i think the public do care about the fire service, police, nhs etc being cut back .
How much do you think the fire brigade costs you?
Most of my friends work in private sector jobs and are on more money than me and get pay rises every year .
my old job was private sector and had a better pension than the one i have in the fire service.
Who of your friends gets or has had a pay rise every year, what do they do?
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Would a member of the public prefer a 60 year old or a fitter younger person coming to their rescue if you only knew how physically hard it is at a real incident, where you have people screaming at you, people shouting for help, and all the kit to drag around then you would realise that's its ludriclus to ask a 60 year to do this.
As for getting another job at 55 why should they if they have paid higher rates to a pension for this privalage then they deserve it,
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the fps scheme contributions are now about 14% just over .
A teacher on the same salary , just over 7%
A nusrse on the closest pay scale to ours , just under 7%
The average employee contribution in private sector defined benefit schemes was 5% in 2011 .
So the FPS contribution is just over 14% eh? So are you in the £60,000 - £100,000 pensionable pay bracket? (14.1%)
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If you paid nealrly double your mortgage contributions every month in order to finish it early but the mortgage company changed their minds and made you carry on for a further 5 years then I'm pretty sure you'd be peed off about it
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the fps scheme contributions are now about 14% just over .
A teacher on the same salary , just over 7%
A nusrse on the closest pay scale to ours , just under 7%
The average employee contribution in private sector defined benefit schemes was 5% in 2011 .
So the FPS contribution is just over 14% eh? So are you in the £60,000 - £100,000 pensionable pay bracket? (14.1%)
No , the pay is £28766
Where do you get the 60000 - 100000 pay bracket?
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i disagree , i think the public do care about the fire service, police, nhs etc being cut back .
How much do you think the fire brigade costs you?
Most of my friends work in private sector jobs and are on more money than me and get pay rises every year .
my old job was private sector and had a better pension than the one i have in the fire service.
Who of your friends gets or has had a pay rise every year, what do they do?
one example - Bus driver for uni link (run by go ahead ) pay rises every year of 2-2.5% . two of my friends work here .
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another example -
southwest trains - four year deal £1000 a year rise and hours cut from 37-35 a week.
Two years into this deal so far.
four of my friends work here.
We are not asking for a pay rise.
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another example -
southwest trains - four year deal £1000 a year rise and hours cut from 37-35 a week.
Two years into this deal so far.
four of my friends work here.
We are not asking for a pay rise.
Would you please stop comparing your pay / conditions to the conditions of a train driver. By your own standards if they have it so good, why don't you apply?
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On line in the FPS scheme it says
14.1% is for the 60-100k earners
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Not sure youre right about having the support of too many people in your dispute having read thisthread.
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Not sure youre right about having the support of too many people in your dispute having read thisthread.
I'll be honest, the firefighters HAD my full support until recently but the unionists like Robert, with their unbelievable sense of entitlement, have very quickly changed that.
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On line in the FPS scheme it says
14.1% is for the 60-100k earners
ok 13%
just over 14% is what they are proposing to put it up to .
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another example -
southwest trains - four year deal £1000 a year rise and hours cut from 37-35 a week.
Two years into this deal so far.
four of my friends work here.
We are not asking for a pay rise.
I know your not. I was questioning the pay rise every year friends.
I'm not sure, but have not asked, that any of my friends have had a pay rise in the last 2 or 3 years. What I'm certain of though is that they are having to work more hours for the same salary just to keep their jobs. Companies and bosses tend to threaten this in times of recession.
If these guys had had yearly pay rises, then perhaps we are all in the wrong profession.
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Not sure youre right about having the support of too many people in your dispute having read thisthread.
there is a dis proportionate amount of haters on this forum compared to other places online and in real life.
Im not a "unionist" but i do believe in standing up for myself against bullies and thieves etc which is what the government are.
They are still pushing through a 11% pay rise for themselves, all in it together?
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On line in the FPS scheme it says
14.1% is for the 60-100k earners
ok 13%
just over 14% is what they are proposing to put it up to .
12.9% at 28K - plus tax relief too, contracted out - reduced nic and 26.5% paid in by your employer. Final Salary. Sweet.
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Not sure youre right about having the support of too many people in your dispute having read thisthread.
there is a dis proportionate amount of haters on this forum compared to other places online and in real life.
Im not a "unionist" but i do believe in standing up for myself against bullies and thieves etc which is what the government are.
They are still pushing through a 11% pay rise for themselves, all in it together?
If you were Taxi driving for a second income and this was a Taxi Drivers forum do you think you'd be the most popular person on the forum and they'd all support your cause?
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Sorry Robert, I have no hatred for the fire service. But you aren't exactly preaching to the choir here are you? You might only have one leg but here in the land of the legless you are king.
In the world of self employment I have no cushion of a job that is so attractive it has 150 after every vacancy in the UK and which offers a pension beyond the grasp of the majority of this forum. No final salary pension schemes here. No sick pay, no paid holidays either. I believe more die in falls while cleaning windows from ladders than do on active fire fighting service.
If you retire at the low end of your scale (30k) you will get 20K a year on a 40/60 pension plus at age 65/66/67 state pension too.
The vast majority on this forum won't have anything like that as a cushion.
Then on top of that comes your window cleaning earnings.
How on earth do you expect folk on here to offer much sympathy?
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another example -
southwest trains - four year deal £1000 a year rise and hours cut from 37-35 a week.
Two years into this deal so far.
four of my friends work here.
We are not asking for a pay rise.
Would you please stop comparing your pay / conditions to the conditions of a train driver. By your own standards if they have it so good, why don't you apply?
Read the other posts , i was asked a question and i answered it.
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Sorry Robert, I have no hatred for the fire service. But you aren't exactly preaching to the choir here are you? You might only have one leg but here in the land of the legless you are king.
In the world of self employment I have no cushion of a job that is so attractive it has 150 after every vacancy in the UK and which offers a pension beyond the grasp of the majority of this forum. No final salary pension schemes here. No sick pay, no paid holidays either. I believe more die in falls while cleaning windows from ladders than do on active fire fighting service.
If you retire at the low end of your scale (30k) you will get 20K a year on a 40/60 pension plus at age 65/66/67 state pension too.
The vast majority on this forum won't have anything like that as a cushion.
.
Then on top of that comes your window cleaning earnings.
How on earth do you expect folk on here to offer much sympathy?
To get that you would have to start in the service on or before your 20th birthday and make it to 60 , very very few will make 60 on active service.
The ratio of employers to employees contributions is lower than many other jobs , my old private sector pension was 3-1 for instance.
Anybody on this forum could have applied for the fire service but chose to go self employed for the flexibility and the higher h hourly rate you can earn.
I have not asked for sympathy and i didnt start this thread .
What did you earn after expenses last year ?
Everybody on here seems to earn 50-60 k a year , why not put some in a pension or a second property .
Every body makes there own choices .
If nobody ever fought these things we would all still be getting paid a pittance and treated like slaves .
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the really sad thing is any contributions made to pensions now
subsidise the pensions of the people who are retired now..yours
mine etc will rely on the tax payer of the future
20 odd years from now i cant see any public sector workers
getting decent pensions anyway.witha growing elderly population
promises now or ten years ago or whenever will be ultimately
irrelevent.
do you have a option to opt out of this scheme and pay into
a private pension?
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Anybody is entitled to do what they want , some have jobs on the side and play semi pro footy and get paid a few more .
My friend works 5 day week , and tops his income up on a Friday and Saturday night being a DJ .
MPs get loads of wages and expenses and many are also on the boards of other companies being directors getting paid.
Stand up and be counted for .
We should be standing Upto the ENERGY companies and fighting them not some gvt/public sector problem.
Everyone stop paying gas/electric for one month .
These are the persons the gvt should be attacking .
We're all paying double/treble for our energy now , and this is attacking our disposable income to spend within the economy .
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This argument of "If you think it's such a good deal, why don't you apply to be a fireman" is a weak one. If, as Gold pointed out, there are 150 people applying for each position, then what are the chances of getting the job?
As for "running into burning buildings" etc, it sounds like an everyday situation, and it's not. As I said earlier in this massive thread, I was in Belfast on an emergency tour in 77/78 on the first firemen's strike. I did enough bombing fires, arson scenes and road accidents, not in London, or Birmingham, but BELFAST. So it was a bit more work than what you'd expect from what the guys in UK do now I suspect.
Actual house fires were next to non existent. So the picture being painted from our heroic firemen saving lives on a daily basis and coming home covered in soot, blood and the remains of some poor moggy stuck up a tree, are a little over played IMO.
You're striking for a pension that some don't even earn in a year in this game. I support good causes, but this one doesn't really get me behind you Robert. I changed my mind after reading your posts.
In this thread, I think "When in a hole, stop digging" applies mate. Trying to defend a 4 on 4 off system against people who already work full time what you choose to do as a bonus, is a non starter, if you get my point?
Anyway, just thought that needed saying.
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Welcome to the new world Robert. You forget that the 1992 and the 2006 schemes still remain relevant for those that joined before those dates. So a new 20 year old starting in 2014 has to work to 60 to get two thirds; well whoop-de-do. What will the general UK retirement age be in 2054 if we even recognise the system then? - 70? And with shift patterns there is plenty of opportunity to do window cleaning, gardening, decorating or w-h-y.
Times change - out in the real world folk are retiring at 65 now; not 55 soon it will be 66 and then 67. Lucky me gets 66 my younger wife gets 67 when she was expecting 60 not long ago.
The picture is far bigger than the UK - this world only has so much resource to spread around - the B.R.I.C.K. economies (half the worlds population) and their people want their day in the sun as Europe and the USA did/are. And the average age is increasing. You cannot hope to be ring-fenced. The price you pay for living longer is working longer or harder. That's life.
If my wife leaves her job her school pension is kept until she is 65 and then she gets it. In the forces pensions aren't paid out the day they leave. If you want to leave at 55 and wait 'til 60 for your pension fine but expecting it at 55 at 20K and having the ability to work another 15/16/17 years to age 67 and then getting state pension at 7k on top is a big ask in my view.
The report on firefighters also mentioned that being overweight and out of condition has more of an effect than age on deterioration of capacity between 55 and 60.
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Anybody is entitled to do what they want , some have jobs on the side and play semi pro footy and get paid a few more .
My friend works 5 day week , and tops his income up on a Friday and Saturday night being a DJ .
MPs get loads of wages and expenses and many are also on the boards of other companies being directors getting paid.
Stand up and be counted for .
We should be standing Upto the ENERGY companies and fighting them not some gvt/public sector problem.
Everyone stop paying gas/electric for one month .
These are the persons the gvt should be attacking .
We're all paying double/treble for our energy now , and this is attacking our disposable income to spend within the economy .
you are wasting your breath matey...any socialistic tendency we had
of sticking together disappeared in the era of thatcher grab grab
mentatlity the selling of council property when a whole generation
were sold on the idea of making money from it then disapearing
sucessive goverments both tory and so called labour carried on
peddling the same crap untill the general public has beome so brainwashed
or terrified or trapped by their own greed that they are too afraid
to take any stand and are left in a situation where they are just about
clinging onto what they have now.
people make a stand...not a chance!
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Welcome to the new world Robert. You forget that the 1992 and the 2006 schemes still remain relevant for those that joined before those dates. So a new 20 year old starting in 2014 has to work to 60 to get two thirds; well whoop-de-do. What will the general UK retirement age be in 2054 if we even recognise the system then? - 70? And with shift patterns there is plenty of opportunity to do window cleaning, gardening, decorating or w-h-y.
Times change - out in the real world folk are retiring at 65 now; not 55 soon it will be 66 and then 67. Lucky me gets 66 my younger wife gets 67 when she was expecting 60 not long ago.
The picture is far bigger than the UK - this world only has so much resource to spread around - the B.R.I.C.K. economies (half the worlds population) and their people want their day in the sun as Europe and the USA did/are. And the average age is increasing. You cannot hope to be ring-fenced. The price you pay for living longer is working longer or harder. That's life.
If my wife leaves her job her school pension is kept until she is 65 and then she gets it. In the forces pensions aren't paid out the day they leave. If you want to leave at 55 and wait 'til 60 for your pension fine but expecting it at 55 at 20K and having the ability to work another 15/16/17 years to age 67 and then getting state pension at 7k on top is a big ask in my view.
The report on firefighters also mentioned that being overweight and out of condition has more of an effect than age on deterioration of capacity between 55 and 60.
old granville has just encapsulated in the above post the whole
reason why you cannot win this argument and you wont especially
at this time.
i personally believe the majority of people would say the same
if they could put it down as well as gold has.
dont get me wrong robert..i respect the job you do but as this
post has gone on i have respected your argument less and less
especially when it comes to the childish comments of us being haters
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I have to say i was very much in support of firemen, but aftervreading this (very long) thread, my opinion is turning.
Not because what others are saying, its the actual arguements that the firemen in this thread are using.
I understand you dont speak for firemen as a whole (i really hope you dont due to the way you come across) but your making yourselves look slightly silly with some of the things your saying (on this thread)
'If you think its such a good deal then why dont you do it' arguement is petty, and juvenile, can you imagine that as your picket slogan??
I have customers that are firemen, and after talking to them i support there right to fight for what they believe in. May not agree fully with the reasons, but thats my right.
Luckily they came across as thoughtful and passionate, not coming across as having a 'living in a bubble' mentality as some of the firemen on this thread are
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Why oh why do some persons moan at what others are doing and earning etc .
I know a few fireman and fair play to them . They signed a contract and should get it .
MP's get a full pension after just 8 years , yes 8 years , and this is a pension from a salary of £70,000 , I know which person I prefere .
We should all down tools over MP's and energy firms etc .
Let's not get dominated by the hierarchy .
On this forum a lot of window cleaners boast at they are £30 per hour and £300 , £400 a day .
I say good on yer , love to myself . So the ones earning that money why moan at the firefighters earning £13 per hour etc.
What are the window cleaners on here moaning at .
Me I'm not bothered what the police or firefighters and nurses etc earn , all I know of is there always there in a emergency .
I was in the army for 5 years so maybe I like my public sector workers etc .
I'd imagine the window cleaners on here who boast of earning £30per hour , £300 a day plus should be well financially safe for their retirement day , probably have several house on the go by then .
Come on guys , do your own work , and worry about yourselves
Footballers earning £1000 per week to £200,000 per week . Are u moaning at them as well.
To me MPS ARE THE WORST , £70,000 plus expenses and a lot have been found out as fiddlers of expenses .
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I see your point, but I don't see anyone moaning about what firemen earn mate, and there are no 200K footballers on here moaning about their pensions. I've been reading this thread for over a week I think. I don't see anyone moaning about what firemen earn, they are getting Robert's story from him and changing their opinions about the strike.
IMO, I find it amazing that at the scene of a major fire, firemen down tools and walk away!!! No life threatened, but firemen walk away from a fire over an industrial dispute?? Then expect the public to understand?
My house is burning, my family stand in the street, so no life is under threat, and the firemen down tools?? Then expect public support? Think again lads.
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couldnt careless what they earn personally,just disagree with the
reasons for strike at this time
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http://dasbeardsblog.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/why-the-fire-fighters-matter/
This guy explains things far better than I ever could .
150 people going for each job doesnt stop you applying , out of 650 that passed the application form only 13 of us were still there at the end .
Im nothing special , anyone that's determined can do it .
Just for info , im not on the original pension that is being robbed so it doesnt affect me as much as those that are , theiving is theiving , if it was a private company robbing pensions would you feel any different ?
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Same with my army pension mate, but walking away from fires is shyte. Won yourselves no support at all doing that. How many jobs were lost because that fire was allowed to burn at that Dagenham fire? How many lives will that fire being allowed to burn effect?
Good luck with your strike action, you'll need it. Not everyone wants to be a fireman, or airline pilot, or window cleaner, so drop the immature attitude to that subject mate. You were doing quite well at the start of the thread, now you're just digging yourself a deeper hole IMO.
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I never said everybody wants to be a firefighter ,I have just been responding to comments saying how easy it is etc .
Maybe I shouldnt get drawn into that part of the debate but there have been some quite derogatory comments about firefighters on here .
If you carry on responding to calls then it wouldnt be a strike.
We agreed to go back for major incidents and when life is at risk .
There were still personnel ( mostly management ) dealing with the fire .
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Well that's OK then if the firefighters walk away, because at least management are staying to fight it eh? ::)roll As I said, think about how a fire left to burn can effect not just jobs that are lost because the fire was allowed to burn and how it must feel as a firefighter to walk away from a fire still burning! Then try to explain to people that as long as you're out of the building and safe, you'll then leave some management to figt the fire as best they can while you push off back to the station for tea and medals. ::)roll
Put the spade down Robert.
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There comes a point when your backed into a corner and have no choice left but to fight .
This has come after more than two years of trying to avoid this happening .
How do you suggest we fight back ?
Or are you all for just giving in and letting the government carry on stitching all of us up while they live happily in the knowledge they will be fine .
They even gwt us to pay their energy bills !
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This is what the whole thread is about. It's going round full circle every third page mate. How do police fight their point when they aren't allowed to strike? Or the forces? Answer, strike doesn't come into it, so that's the way it is. Ever since the first fireman's strike back in the 70's, you started to lose public support. Now it's at an all time low. You're part of the rescue service and as such, serve the country. You've got a problem with your 20K minimum pension, and the public see you walk away from a fire that's still burning mate. Have a little think about that.
When I served 9 years as a squaddie, I was based in Germany. We got a "Local Overseas Allowance" to stock up our wage to meet the higher cost of living here. Every time we got a pay rise of 2 or 3% our LOA went down. So no real pay rise. The troops in UK got 2 or 3% too, and their food and accommodation cost went up to, so no pay rise.
Count what advantage you have from the job you chose and get on with making the best of it. You're posting about a 20K pension on a forum of full time windies, that struggle to equal that full time!!
Here's a tip Robert, stay in the fire service, because if anyone ever offers you a job in public relations, you won't be the new Max Clifford mate.
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Its not a £20 k minimum pension , thats the maximum you can get if you make it from 20 -60 which most wont .
After 26 years my projected pension is just under 8000 , thats if I make it to 60 . If I have to go at 55 which is likely its around 4000.
Hardly gold plated.
My brothers are both soldiers , one just retired at 43 and is getting around 700 a month now and this will more than double when he is sixty and he still has seventeen years to work and pay into another pension .
Thats after 22 years service not 40 .
Hardly a bad deal is it ?
I firmly believe they deserve it too .
Police have been fighting for the right to strike .
If nobody fought against these things and just shrugged and said thats how it is , we would all still be getting treated like poop for next to know wages .
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Yeah, back to the same old stance. You must strike. Ah well, let's hope nobody dies eh? I no longer support your view. Wonder if I'm the only one. Some of you see your job as just that, a job. Not serving anyone, just a job.
I have my own thoughts on firemen that see this as you do. I'm out of this thread. All the best.
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People are going to die , firefighters and public .
That is on the governments shoulders .
When an appliance turns up to your house on fire and people are trapped , a ba team consisting of two late fifties firefighters will not work as quickly and there bodies will struggle with the dangerous increase in core body temperature.
When that firefighter has a heart attack trying to save the trapped people it puts those trapped people at risk .
Thats a fact and the government know it .
During the strikes we have already agreed to break the picket line to save life so our strikes are not going to kill anyone .
Your out of this thread because your argument is flawed .
I know we have a lot of public support , seen it and heard it with my own eyes and ears .
Just because you dont support it doesn't mean we have lost public support.
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You also dont know me and your making assumptions , I dont think of it as just a job.
I worked very hard to get it and I love making a difference to people , and we do that in many different ways .
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You're bleating. If you think you have public support, crack on Robert. If anyone dies, blame the government. Enjoy your nice fat pension, and don't cross any picket lines, just focus on your pension mate. It's only a few windies that are "haters" and everyone loves a fireman, until some poor sucker dies because you and your mates wanted to strike over a fat pension.
It's just me and a few others that have totally mis-understood your point. If only you'de have taken a job as a copper, or a soldier eh? I've got my opinion, and it's different to how it was before I read your view.
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I dont have a fat pension and I didnt say we had everyones support .
I have already said several times that we will cross the picket line to save lives , you just ignore that completely.
Nobody wanted to strike , we have been forced into it .
As you know so much about me , what exactly do you think my view is ?
What do you know of what's happened in the years leading upto this ?
Do you think nobody should have the right to strike ?
Will you happy when all public services are privatised and cost twice as much for half the service ?
That is where all this is heading .
Also if you think its ok to steal from my pension to pay the national debt , how much have you contributed over and above the usual tax that everyone pays ?
You can donate towards it through hmrc .
Are you happy about an mp claiming nearly 5k a year from the taxpayer to pay his energy bills at his million pound SECOND home jusy because "thats the way it is " .
That single claim is more than my pension will be worth annually when I retire.
Its you that is bleating on with no real point to your argument .
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When the appliance turns up outside your house - will it be manned by a crew of 60 year olds or will there be one or two younger members who will wear breathing apparatus? Will the fire engine have a disabled sticker on the dash? Do all the current firemen who retire in their fifties actually stop working for the rest of their lives.
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Your still bleating. I live, and have lived in Germany after leaving the army in 1985. Having served the country for 9 years, I joined while the Ulster troubles were in full flow, and knew axactly what I was doing when I signed the dotted line mate. I served 3 tours there while the war was raging, and also had time in between to nip down to the Falklands in 82, where I knew exactly what I was getting into.
I get my pension when I'm 60, because as you know, I dont qualify until then because I only served 9 instead of 22 years. If that pension was hacked down, like it has been for the new guys in the army, I couldn't strike, because I was serving the country, as do police. You seem to see that differently, and see strike action as a tool to get what you want.
As Ive said already, your posts on this thread have turned my opinion round. I would've supported firemen before.
I don't claim to know you, or why you decided to join the fire brigade, and I don't really give a toss either way. If the majority of firemen feel and think like you, then I hope you lose your dispute.
Don't bleat please, I'm saying I hope you lose your dispute, not I hope you die, or get toasted, or get run over while trying to save Mrs Smith's moggy up a tree. Just your dispute about fat pensions.
I hope that's clear enough for you this time. If not, try re-reading what I just posted again. Once more, it's not good to bleat. It lowers your, and your colleagues standing, when you do that.
In this case, in my opinion, you should do what you signed to do, and take a knock. Lot's of others have had no choice, they just lost their jobs. If you want more, work more.
Thank God the Kraut fire service can't strike.
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When the appliance turns up outside your house - will it be manned by a crew of 60 year olds or will there be one or two younger members who will wear breathing apparatus? Will the fire engine have a disabled sticker on the dash? Do all the current firemen who retire in their fifties actually stop working for the rest of their lives.
There has been little or no recruitment in the last five years and that will continue for years to come as they cut it further.
So yes there is a good chance it will be a truck full .
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Your still bleating. I live, and have lived in Germany after leaving the army in 1985. Having served the country for 9 years, I joined while the Ulster troubles were in full flow, and knew axactly what I was doing when I signed the dotted line mate. I served 3 tours there while the war was raging, and also had time in between to nip down to the Falklands in 82, where I knew exactly what I was getting into.
I get my pension when I'm 60, because as you know, I dont qualify until then because I only served 9 instead of 22 years. If that pension was hacked down, like it has been for the new guys in the army, I couldn't strike, because I was serving the country, as do police. You seem to see that differently, and see strike action as a tool to get what you want.
As Ive said already, your posts on this thread have turned my opinion round. I would've supported firemen before.
I don't claim to know you, or why you decided to join the fire brigade, and I don't really give a toss either way. If the majority of firemen feel and think like you, then I hope you lose your dispute.
Don't bleat please, I'm saying I hope you lose your dispute, not I hope you die, or get toasted, or get run over while trying to save Mrs Smith's moggy up a tree. Just your dispute about fat pensions.
I hope that's clear enough for you this time. If not, try re-reading what I just posted again. Once more, it's not good to bleat. It lowers your, and your colleagues standing, when you do that.
In this case, in my opinion, you should do what you signed to do, and take a knock. Lot's of others have had no choice, they just lost their jobs. If you want more, work more.
Thank God the Kraut fire service can't strike.
So answer my questions then?
What do you know of what's happened in the years leading upto this ?
Do you think nobody should have the right to strike ?
Will you happy when all public services are privatised and cost twice as much for half the service ?
That is where all this is heading .
Also if you think its ok to steal from my pension to pay the national debt , how much have you contributed over and above the usual tax that everyone pays ?
You can donate towards it through hmrc .
Are you happy about an mp claiming nearly 5k a year from the taxpayer to pay his energy bills at his million pound SECOND home jusy because "thats the way it is " .
That single claim is more than my pension will be worth annually when I retire.
Firefighters signed on the dotted line and have kept up there side of the contract , the government have not .
You are not interested in an intelligent discussion , you ignore all the points made.
for the third time i dont have a fat pension , picket lines will be broken if there is danger to life .
My brothers have both served in the army in northern ireland, iraq , afghanistan and bosnia , seen and done some horrific things .
Im proud of them as i am all our soldiers , but it has nothing to do with our dispute .
so come on , should nobody be allowed to strike ever ?
no matter what the employer does?
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I would always support Fire Crews going on strike! They do loads of stuff which is not just fire fighting.
In Scotland we are seeing more and more Stations get turned into Retained Stations. To which my Brother-in-Law is a retained firefighter and which he does it as he wants to give the local area a good response rate and help the community.
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. I'm out of this thread. All the best.
cozy you have a short memory or you been on that german water again ;D ;D ;D
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I would always support Fire Crews going on strike! They do loads of stuff which is not just fire fighting.
In Scotland we are seeing more and more Stations get turned into Retained Stations. To which my Brother-in-Law is a retained firefighter and which he does it as he wants to give the local area a good response rate and help the community.
So he works for free then?
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I would always support Fire Crews going on strike! They do loads of stuff which is not just fire fighting.
In Scotland we are seeing more and more Stations get turned into Retained Stations. To which my Brother-in-Law is a retained firefighter and which he does it as he wants to give the local area a good response rate and help the community.
So he works for free then?
I don't know I must admit however he does choose what hours he puts in and etc.
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I would always support Fire Crews going on strike! They do loads of stuff which is not just fire fighting.
In Scotland we are seeing more and more Stations get turned into Retained Stations. To which my Brother-in-Law is a retained firefighter and which he does it as he wants to give the local area a good response rate and help the community.
So he works for free then?
I don't know I must admit however he does choose what hours he puts in and etc.
If he does it to help the community then he will be working for free. If he takes a wage (of course he does) then he works for the money like the rest of us do.
Don't make out that he is some kind of local superhero devoting his time fighting fires for free for the good of the community.
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answer to some of your qestions
years before this strike - you had a big pay rise bigger than anyone else true or false
you should only be able to strike if not in emergency services as you would put lifes at risk dont hear the ambulance drivers , army , police going on strike .
We have been in a reccesion everyone has been hit in the pocket cut have to be made we all except it ( except firemen ) wages have been frozen .
who do you think will be paying your pension TAX PAYER AND WE CANT AFFORD IT .
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So answer my questions then?
What do you know of what's happened in the years leading upto this ?
Do you think nobody should have the right to strike ?
Will you happy when all public services are privatised and cost twice as much for half the service ?
That is where all this is heading .
Also if you think its ok to steal from my pension to pay the national debt , how much have you contributed over and above the usual tax that everyone pays ?
You can donate towards it through hmrc .
Are you happy about an mp claiming nearly 5k a year from the taxpayer to pay his energy bills at his million pound SECOND home jusy because "thats the way it is " .
That single claim is more than my pension will be worth annually when I retire.
Firefighters signed on the dotted line and have kept up there side of the contract , the government have not .
You are not interested in an intelligent discussion , you ignore all the points made.
for the third time i dont have a fat pension , picket lines will be broken if there is danger to life .
My brothers have both served in the army in northern ireland, iraq , afghanistan and bosnia , seen and done some horrific things .
Im proud of them as i am all our soldiers , but it has nothing to do with our dispute .
so come on , should nobody be allowed to strike ever ?
no matter what the employer does?
I'll try to remember to read this, as soon as I've finished watching some paint dry that I did earlier today. In the meantime, try to stop digging that hole you've started a few pages back eh?
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100% Behind the fireman. They are being shafted
Only those that bleat are convinced the fireman will nick all the work, easy target in my opinion
concentrate on your own business and stop worrying about other people.
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why is that anyone who disagrees with the strike for whatever
reason is a bleater a hater or is jealous.
i can quite easily take roberts point of view onboard even though
the way he has come across has deterioated over the 13 pages
for no doubt various reasons and still disagree.
for me old granville gold made the most valid point of the whole
post pages back.
calling people haters bleaters etc is hardly going to get people
onside is it.
for me fireman have the right to protest..but at this time
there are more important issues..that is my point of view
im entitled to it...just as much as anyone who backs these
strikes are entitled to their opinion.
maybe its time to put this post to bed
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Cozy... for someone oot of this thread... you ain't half gobby :-* :-*
;D ;D
I too have had my views turned by someone who just didn't know when to stop typing, and was wound up by the original Pee take post of Geoff..
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Cozy... for someone oot of this thread... you ain't half gobby :-* :-*
;D ;D
I too have had my views turned by someone who just didn't know when to stop typing, and was wound up by the original Pee take post of Geoff..
a knew a bad penny would turn up eventually ;D
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100% Behind the fireman. They are being shafted
Only those that bleat are convinced the fireman will nick all the work, easy target in my opinion
concentrate on your own business and stop worrying about other people.
Disagree
Like ive said, im behind the firemen to a certain extent, but by striking they're looking for support so its a bit of a contradiction to say stop worrying about other people.
But striking is a form of drawing attention to a problem, so strikers in any profession want you to worry about them to draw support...
By doing this your going to get different opinions, thats life, so its a little silly to say the only reason people are 'hating' is because they're worried about them selves
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answer to some of your qestions
years before this strike - you had a big pay rise bigger than anyone else true or false last proper pay rise was 2002 and they were on awful money before that.- iwasnt in the service then.
you should only be able to strike if not in emergency services as you would put lifes at risk dont hear the ambulance drivers , army , police going on strike . the police were fighting for the right to strike , the army cant strike , ambulance service were threatening strikes over sick pay two months ago .
We have been in a reccesion everyone has been hit in the pocket cut have to be made we all except it ( except firemen ) wages have been frozen . except firemen? teachers, ambulance , post office , bus drivers and many many others have balloted or threatened to recently .
who do you think will be paying your pension TAX PAYER AND WE CANT AFFORD IT . But we can afford hs2 , foreign aid , pointless wars , politicians/mps ridiculous expenses etc etc - the fire service cost each household around £50-£60 a year look at your council tax bill .
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So answer my questions then?
What do you know of what's happened in the years leading upto this ?
Do you think nobody should have the right to strike ?
Will you happy when all public services are privatised and cost twice as much for half the service ?
That is where all this is heading .
Also if you think its ok to steal from my pension to pay the national debt , how much have you contributed over and above the usual tax that everyone pays ?
You can donate towards it through hmrc .
Are you happy about an mp claiming nearly 5k a year from the taxpayer to pay his energy bills at his million pound SECOND home jusy because "thats the way it is " .
That single claim is more than my pension will be worth annually when I retire.
Firefighters signed on the dotted line and have kept up there side of the contract , the government have not .
You are not interested in an intelligent discussion , you ignore all the points made.
for the third time i dont have a fat pension , picket lines will be broken if there is danger to life .
My brothers have both served in the army in northern ireland, iraq , afghanistan and bosnia , seen and done some horrific things .
Im proud of them as i am all our soldiers , but it has nothing to do with our dispute .
so come on , should nobody be allowed to strike ever ?
no matter what the employer does?
I'll try to remember to read this, as soon as I've finished watching some paint dry that I did earlier today. In the meantime, try to stop digging that hole you've started a few pages back eh?
Intelligent comment - why are you still watching this thread if it doesnt interest you?
You wont answer of course.
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why is that anyone who disagrees with the strike for whatever
reason is a bleater a hater or is jealous.
i can quite easily take roberts point of view onboard even though
the way he has come across has deterioated over the 13 pages
for no doubt various reasons and still disagree. your right my responses did deteriorate , and i shouldnt let the childish comments that were made drag me down to the same level .
for me old granville gold made the most valid point of the whole
post pages back.
calling people haters bleaters etc is hardly going to get people
onside is it. It was cosy that used the word bleaters , directed at me originally.
for me fireman have the right to protest..but at this time
there are more important issues..that is my point of view
im entitled to it...just as much as anyone who backs these
strikes are entitled to their opinion.
maybe its time to put this post to bed
-
So my £50 or £60 pa that I pay through my council tax provides the facility for the service or its total cost?
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funding depends slightly on where you live , hampshire is almost fully funded by council tax.
Some rural areas get more of there funding from central government , lower population so less council tax .
Some special things get funded direct from government for instance - bulletproof vests ,battle dressings,sleds and extra training so we can attend terrorist /lone shooter incidents .
but the majority is council tax .
The amount they expect to save from the pension changes is 73 million , they wont save this because of lower uptake of the pension and will actually end up worse off.
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funding depends slightly on where you live , hampshire is almost fully funded by council tax.
Some rural areas get more of there funding from central government , lower population so less council tax .
Some special things get funded direct from government for instance - bulletproof vests ,battle dressings,sleds and extra training so we can attend terrorist /lone shooter incidents .
but the majority is council tax .
The amount they expect to save from the pension changes is 73 million , they wont save this because of lower uptake of the pension and will actually end up worse off.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1383515341_aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg)
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funding depends slightly on where you live , hampshire is almost fully funded by council tax.
Some rural areas get more of there funding from central government , lower population so less council tax .
Some special things get funded direct from government for instance - bulletproof vests ,battle dressings,sleds and extra training so we can attend terrorist /lone shooter incidents .
but the majority is council tax .
The amount they expect to save from the pension changes is 73 million , they wont save this because of lower uptake of the pension and will actually end up worse off.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1383515341_aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Come on Robert, it's time to stop. I'll throw you a bone - Matt: 7 v 6!
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funding depends slightly on where you live , hampshire is almost fully funded by council tax.
Some rural areas get more of there funding from central government , lower population so less council tax .
Some special things get funded direct from government for instance - bulletproof vests ,battle dressings,sleds and extra training so we can attend terrorist /lone shooter incidents .
but the majority is council tax .
The amount they expect to save from the pension changes is 73 million , they wont save this because of lower uptake of the pension and will actually end up worse off.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1383515341_aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg)
[/quote
;D ;D ;D
Come on Robert, it's time to stop. I'll throw you a bone. Matthew 7 v 6.
Lol Goldy.
I think it's fair to say almost nothing posted, especially on this forum, could be described as a 'pearl'
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PMSL, I'd say Matthew 7 v 6 would be better posted in the chat section Malc. There are so many clever people in there. ;) ;)
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You'll struggle to be heard though.
Geoff Lord starts at least 1,453,964 posts a day.
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All YouTube links
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You'll struggle to be heard though.
Geoff Lord starts at least 1,453,964 posts a day.
;D ;D
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You'll struggle to be heard though.
Geoff Lord starts at least 1,453,964 posts a day.
yep and tosh has a buddhist style quote for all of them ;D
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yep and tosh has a buddhist style quote for all of them ;D
Which is of course unquestionably true.
.......................................................
14 pages about firemen wanting to defend their course of action on a window cleaning forum.
Jeeeez.
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Worth it, then:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25389257 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25389257)
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I think the fire fighters have a point , I know one , who has signed Upto the pension and pays into it . Now the gvt want rid .
I support them , as I don't support the gvt .
The gvt - thinking of a 11% pay rise on a already big wage of £67000 = £74000 , plus this adds to their full end ion after just 8 years as a MP
WHEN WILL US THE PUBLIC EVER DECLARE A NATIONAL STRIKE TO GET RID OF THESE GREEDY , gossip preachers MPS .
I hate MPs .
Should cut the amount of MPS , wages and pensions