Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gary evans on March 07, 2006, 07:30:41 pm
-
Dont know if this true but returned from work today & found message left on answer phone from reporter of Express & Star Newspaper, asking if i knew the window cleaner that had died from a fall from ladders & would i wish to make a comment.
I,ve heard nothing & not had paper delivered, do,nt know if this is true or not.
Shocking news if it is.
Appently he fell off a ladder in lichfield, no other details other than he came from brownhill.
-
A customer of mine told me 1 w/c has been killed just a few streets from were i live
boke his leg in a fall but they didnt know about a blood clot
THATS TWO IN TWO WEEKS 1 IS TO MANY :'(
GAZA
-
Dont know if this true but returned from work today & found message left on answer phone from reporter of Express & Star Newspaper, asking if i knew the window cleaner that had died from a fall from ladders & would i wish to make a comment.
YES its true I had the same call. a 41 year old windowcleaner working in Lichfield fell 20ft at 12.15 yesterday and died at 3pm at Burton hostptal...
Add to this two weeks ago a man fell from ladders (not known if window cleaner) while working at a factory in Cannock and was air lifted to Solihull Hospital (no follow up story re condition)but it said he had serious head injurys.
Add to them I picked up a factory unit last week because thier window cleaner had fallen from his ladder last year and broke both his legs.
Plus a local window cleaner has recently started back after falling from ladder and fracturing his hip..
it reads like a casualty list from a war zone..
Ain't I glad that I hardley use ladders
-
I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder. ???
-
squeeky
It happens mate ,when you least expect it.
You dont say i think i will fall off my ladder today it just creeps up and gets you one day, and that will be the last you know about it.
I dont think there are any instructions.
-
Maybe you won't know Roger untill you manage to do it, then hopefully you'll pick yourself up and still wonder how you did it.
-
I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder. ???
Gravity
-
SQUEEKY MATE:HOPE YOU LIVE TO TELL US ABOUT IT,MYw/c fell out of the top of his wheelie bin,nearly 18 months ago and still not back at work,maybe never will so he tells me,he had never had a fall in 26 yrs.
gaza
-
I think what Squeaky means is, people very rarely fall off ladders. It's the ladders that slip and you go with them. I did manage to fall off once. some daft sod had fitted a tilt and turn window upside down. I was detailing the top corner when the window opened from the top and pushed me off.
Had a narrow escape again today. My Unger pole touched an overhead wire, or at least the brush did. I was wearing thick rubber coated gloves. I heard a sharp crack, but felt nothing, no damage to the pole either. I thought that incoming electric wires were well insulated. It's not the first time Ive touched one, never heard them crack before though. Mind you it was hissing down at the time. Dai
-
Roger, how on earth can you pose a question like that?
I mostly agree with Dai's reply, and do understand what Rog was probably trying to get at; however...
It's a rather serious thread and there isn't a window cleaner on this forum that doesn't realise that working off a ladder is inherently dangerous.
I'm not using this as an excuse to bang on about the virtues of WFP, to be honest I don't believe we should be stopped from working off ladders.
However; accidents happen mostly as a result of complacency, and all who use ladders on a daily basis will be guilty of it, without exception.
Placing your ladder, climbing your ladder, working off your ladder all become things you do instinctively, you just don't have to think and focus on each step in the process, much like driving a car, half the time we are on auto pilot.
Many people working off ladders won't follow full safety procedures and they never will, no matter how much legislation is implemented.
How many of you will use anti slip mats, fall restraints, tie off the ladders where possible, have the little articulated rubber feet on every ladder, and so on and so on.
In a hurry?
Ever climbed up or down the ladder 2 rungs at a time? Or even just rushed up and down as fast as you can.
What about your footwear?
Ever used old training shoes that are worn smooth and split on the sides?
Ever reached to a top corner of a window and stuck out a leg to counter balance yourself?
Ever climbed a ladder holding tools in one hand and the ladder in the other?
All of the above contribute to falling of a ladder.
So far as I am concerned, health and safety goes too far, and the problem is that there is always another step that can be taken to further reduce accidents.
I myself no longer work off ladders in part because of all of the above, but I RESENT being forced off them for my own good.
It is always worrying to hear of fatal accidents in our trade because of working at height, but that is the risk we take to earn a crust.
There are tens of thousands (well ok, many thousands at least) of window cleaners working off ladders a few have accidents bad enough to end their lives and many others have accidents resulting in broken limbs and so on.
But we can't live our lives cocooned in cotton wool.
The vast majority live and work off ladders their whole lives with only a few incidents.
How many close calls have you had in your cars?
How many car accidents have you had?
Ever had an electric shock from some home appliance or power tool?
How many footballers out there have ruined cruciate ligaments?
Play rugby?
How many injuries have you picked up over the years?
Ever climbed a tree as a kid?.........ever fell out of that tree?
Accidents happen!
Some things with working off ladders are simple common sense, I hate the fact that we are going to be legislated off them altogether at some point in the future.
If you are in the building trade you aren't even supposed to work off a step ladder :o
You have to have a platfrom, and if you are as high as 3ft of the ground that platform has to have guard rails all the way around too :-\ And kick boards :o If something should fall off that dizzying height and land on someones toe that is classified as a working at height injury :-\
But for Squeaks to actually ask how you fall off a ladder...sigh :-\
Ian
-
its easy done things on your mind etc,it takes just one lack of concerntration,and it happens,many years ago I was working up a ladder all day,as I was coming down I steped off,to my shock I thought I was at the last rung,I steped off at around the 8th rung,landed sq on me feet,the shock :o
run right up my christmas crackers, :o boy did that hurt,all because my mind was some where else at the time,you cannot afford to day dream at any time when working at height,ladders as we all know we use only if we have to.
safe cleaning ;)
-
Had a narrow escape again today. My Unger pole touched an overhead wire, or at least the brush did....
Not the first time I've heard this either....
More chance of that than "falling off" a ladder.
Six of one and half a dozen of the other really isn't it?
I sympathise with the person and families involved and I mean no disrespect, but there's plenty of new ways to injure or kill yourself now.
My mrs slipped on a wet doorway left by icy water the other day...Safe? ???
-
IAN:good writing that man,you havent been watching me work have you, If its the w/c in Nottm who I think it is a nicer man you could never meet,why is it the nice ones end up a statistic,and the scum who undercut pinch work,dont pay tax get away with it?
gaza
-
Don't forget, an extended ladder can touch a power line as easily as a pole, and that power line has to be in poor condition to give you a shock, they are insulated afterall.
I wasn't using this thread to highlight WFP, I was actually standing up for the ladder user, but squeaks still had to have a pop at the pole user :-\
Where safety is concerned there is simply no comparison between WFP and ladders, using safety as an arguement is a total waste of space for the ladder user.
But we are in danger of losing sight of the fact that most people who work off ladders will do so their entire lives without coming to any serious harm.
All manual workers are at risk of injury, it goes with the territory, but the Nanny State will grind remorselessly on and in a few years ladders will be for access only.
How long before the climbing of trees by kids will be made an offence that the parent will be punished for?
In some playgrounds they are not allowed to run around in case they fall over.
I wonder when the time will come when children are only allowed to ride bicycles in supervised areas only?
Then if a parent allows them to ride them unsupervised and on the public highways they'll get prosecuted?
Far fetched?
I wonder, Health and Safety is rapidly eroding all things that may cause any risk, and some 7 year old kid pedalling away through the town centre on a busy day just has to be very high risk indeed.....doesn't it?....
Ian
-
The last line is a sobering thought.
http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_87794.php
-
I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder. ???
Rog, I'm sure you didn't mean it, but, I cannot believe the insensitivity of your remark.
There are guidelines in place for the safe handling of everything under the sun!
There are guidelines for the safe use of tractors.
Would you go up to someone and say, "I still don't know how you can let your tractor run over you?"?
I respect most of what you say in defence of old fashioned window cleaning with a mop and squeegee and ladder. In fact, I wish I had your conviction.
But this comment is well out of order.
Apologise!!!
This poor man is dead!
His poor family may read this!! Or someone may relate it.
He was 41! Close to your age. Think about it. It could easily have been you, but it wasn't you..
so you can afford to.....
Show some respect!
What if they printed this thread?
Probably a nice guy. Loved his family. Hoping to pay his mortgage before too long. Maybe 2 or 3 months make the decision to have a holiday. Spend some time with the family.
Think about what to do next.
No more debates/speculation.
I am so sorry.
-
I think Rogers comments were valid if maybe seemingly a bit insensative.
It's a bit hard but that is what a coroner's court will ask. Those hard and cruel facts go towards making new laws and new statistics.
The problem is that when there is a fatailty and the person was alone, it all becomes guess work as to what lead to it.
Often, and from experience from my last job, it all comes down to not understanding the risks in a way that is complete and acting accordingly. Or a moments lack of concentration. That, and the unexpected which will always happen in any walk of life.
It's very sad and my heart goes out to the w/c's family.
-
I'm sorry if what I said offended anyone or disrespected the subject of the the thread, but it was taken the wrong way.
It wasn't a direct question about the person involved, just a general puzzlement how of you just drop off ladder.
As people have said, it's due to stretching, or putting it up at poor angles etc...
I did say in a subsequent post that I meant no offence or disrespect to the w/c in question and they have my sympathy.
That's the problem with text on a screen (even with smileys), it's not always easy to put things across right. :-\
I just could have worded it better.....sorry. :-[
Rog.
-
I'm sorry if what I said offended anyone or disrespected the subject of the the thread, but it was taken the wrong way.
It wasn't a direct question about the person involved, just a general puzzlement how of you just drop off ladder.
As people have said, it's due to stretching, or putting it up at poor angles etc...
I did say in a subsequent post that I meant no offence or disrespect to the w/c in question and they have my sympathy.
That's the problem with text on a screen (even with smileys), it's not always easy to put things across right. :-\
I just could have worded it better.....sorry. :-[
Rog.
Roger
It would have been better to start another thread .
"how many ways to fall off a ladder"
you are a bit like me its easy to keep putting your size 11`s in everything
-
I'm sorry too Squeaky, if I worded things a bit harsh.
Just read back my comments.
Better sometimes to say nothing.
I just felt so sad about the poor guy and his family.
As Ross said, the last line in the newspaper says it all.
-
Well there are a few ways of falling off a ladder. I've come close several times but been lucky.
Something I did learn a long time ago was not to climb the ladder if I was feeling very angry about something. My two closest near misses both occurred when my anger made me careless.
Another way is if the rungs are wet and you slip. Although I've used slip resistant footwear for a while now, such footwear does seem to attract and keep mud more easily than a lot of trainers.
A bizarre way where I actually did fall off my ladder happened not too long ago - before I knew about this forum. An experienced ladder user I was but it still happened. It happened like this (please take note). I had a pair of (non-slip) trainers on. At the back of these trainers were stiff loops that stuck up that you could thread laces through. Anyway, I was coming down the ladder and the trouser leg on one side got caught in the loop of the trainer on the other side and I came down backwards off the ladder. I was about 3 or 4 rungs up at the time. If it was higher, I could have been in the paper. I was unhurt as, luckily, I landed on my back but my back was rounded. I guess it must have been instinctive as I don't recall thinking about it. That was a bizarre accident but I know quite a few trainers have those loops on them so I'm writing it here as a warning to others.
My sympathy to the family and friends of the guy in Lichfield who died.
-
Does anyone know this bloke from Lichfield?
I'd be prepared to donate something for some flowers to his missis?
Would anyone be prepared to sort it all out; ie collect the money, buy the flowers and deliver them?
Purely as a token of our 'fellow window cleaners' sympathy.
-
Tosh
I think this is a really thoughtful idea.
Sharon
-
Tosh
I think this is a really thoughtful idea.
Sharon
It's no good if no-one knows where he lived!
-
My deepest sympathies go to the family of this poor man.
I don't care about the why's and wherefores of how and why it happened.
What I suggest we do is to contact the newspaper and either try to get the address. If they won't give it then perhaps we could ask the newspaper to accept a letter of condolance from the forum along with flowers and pass it on for us.
I am prepared to do this on behalf of the forum members. No names of companies or individuals will be mentioned. It may give the bereaved some comfort to know that there are fellow window cleaners out there who do care about each other.
I am prepared to draft a letter and post it here so that all can see it and make any suggestions they wish to.
Does anyone have any objection to this?
Window cleaning and window cleaners have been very good to me so it is really a very easy thing to do this.
Andrew
-
Andrew,
Please do it!
I'll support it, and I'm sure many others would too.
Regards,
Tosh.
-
Yes great idea Tosh count me in,Gaz
-
Ok Tosh
I will try to contact the relevant person at the newspaper tomorrow.
After doing that I will report back to the forum with the result.
To be honest I had already thought about this but waited for someone to mention it first because I didnt want it to be seen as some sort of publicity stunt in view of my being a supplier. I can assure all here that this is the last thing on my mind. If someone hadn't mentioned it I would have sent my personal token of sympathy anyway.
I will fund the provision of flowers on behalf of the forum members however if I do manage to get an address and permission to post it or email it to anyone who wants it those who feel that they want to contribute could always send any tokens or donations direct to the family.
I have been involved before in a similar situation and found it very difficult to arrange and account for donations from others. This is my only reason for offering to fund the flowers on behalf of the forum members.
I will get back to the forum ASAP.
Andrew
-
thats a very nice thought, count me in too,
adam
-
Andrew,
i must say they are very kind words & would agree to any donation or letter of condolence.
i currently have work in & around lichfield & would wish to be apart of anything that can be done.
Gary.
-
Here is a link to the report in the newspaper
http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_87794.php
It seems the poor guy was from Walsall.
I am sending a link to the homepage of the newspaper to the office so that I can contact them tomorrow.
Andrew
-
Nice idea Tosh and thanks for offering to do it Andrew.
Count me in too.
Sarah
-
Im in too..
Respect to you Andrew.
Ijust cant imagine how the family feels..totally devastated seems an understatement, my prayers are with his family.
-
Yep, well done Andrew, count me in too.
And well done Tosh for proposing the idea.
Ian
-
Here is a link to the report in the newspaper
http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_87794.php
It seems the poor guy was from Walsall.
I am sending a link to the homepage of the newspaper to the office so that I can contact them tomorrow.
Andrew
Hi Andrew,
Have you had any information from the newspaper?
Also, about the donations, it'll be difficult for you to receive the money/cheques and get flowers in time for the funeral.
I think it'd probably be easier to set a date, say the 20th March, and then spend the amount you've received by that date, on flowers.
Okay, they'll arrive late, but the thought will still be there.
-
Hi all
Just to update you.
I have called the newspaper twice today. The first time was to the head office at around 9.30 this morning. I explained what my call was about and they took my number and said they would get back to me. They hadn't done so at 3 pm so I called the Walsall office number and got put through to the reporters office. Again I explained the situation and again was told that they would get back to me. My feeling is that they will get back soon. The 2nd chap I spoke to did mention a name and was aware of the accident but of course this is a sensitive matter so I suspect that he will want to check out things with his superiors before taking any action.
About donations: This is a difficult one for me. As I said I am prepared to fund the flowers on behalf of the forum members. However I do understand that many of you will want to donate in some way.. this is totally understandable. What I do know is that you good people here are very big hearted and as the saying goes it is the thought that counts. In this case perhaps more so than most other situations. I know your hearts and minds are with this family and believe that this is enough.
If I do manage to get the address of the family and permission to make it available then perhaps those who wish to could send some sort of personal message of condolence rather than send a donation towards the cost of flowers to me. I promise you all that the flowers will be sent along with a letter which will make it quite clear that they are from the members of this forum as a whole and solely from the members here.
Tosh is probably right about not getting anything sorted out in time for the funeral but I am sure that our gesture of sympathy to the family will help at any time.
I will work on a proposed letter to the bereaved family over the weekend and post its complete wording as soon as it is drafted. You will all then be able to view it and make any comments or suggestions regarding it's contents.
You all have my word that the letter will then be sent to the family exactly as will be finally posted here.
Is this OK with you all?
Andrew
-
Hi everyone,
I am about to email Andrew with some additional information I have managed to source for him. This includes the w/c name and street. he is ex-directory though so have not been able to get a street number.
Andrew,
You have :-
-
I got to a job this morning, set my trolley system up, switched on, dead as a dodo.The thought of taking those ladders off filled me with dread. Why? To be honest I don't know. I've been using ladders for the last 13 years, no problem, why should it bother me now?
I have been using WFP since last August.
The job I was on this morning is a pub/restaurant. We do inside and out every fortnight. I get to check the results each time. With hand on heart I have to say that WFP results at least match, if not better the results I had using trad methods.
I am being honest here. How many of us on a bright sunny day can inspect an inside and out job, and find every window perfect?
I'm glad to say that my trolley problem was nothing more than a bad battery connection, soon fixed.
I really don't want to go up ladders anymore. I think that when we are working trad, we push the risk to the back of our minds and get on with it. When we get used to working safely off the ground, the risk of using ladders becomes more apparent. It's a stress we are not aware of until it's gone.
My heart goes out to the family of that poor guy that lost his life this week. I would never want my family to endure it.
It's either WFP or nothing for me now. If some customers want someone to risk their life to have their windows cleaned,
they are customers not worth having. DAI
-
I have told this before on this forum. About twenty years ago I used to work with a bloke called John. Three years ago John's son fell off a ladder and hit his head on a wall as he went down.
He was put on a life support machine but it was hopeless and they had to let him go eventually.
He left a wife and young family.
Last I heard there was a problem with his life insurance who were refusing to pay out because he was doing dangerous work.
So all of you, check the small print on your life insurance policies. What job did you say you were doing when you took the policy out?
-
I would like to send a donation and will look out for details on here to do so,
or can anyone email me lee_dewing@hotmail.co.uk
-
UPDATE:
The newspaper have got back to me with the following information. The gentlemans name was Paul Welsh. He is survived by his wife, a 21 year old son and a 17 year old daughter. His address is given as Castle street. However there is no Castle street in Walsall and the newpaper don't have the correct address. Sarah kindly emailed me exactly the same information re his address. Various searches using his name reveal no details re telepone number or correct address. The are a number of castle Streets in the general area in which he lived. It is obviously vital to get the right one. My next line of enquiry is with the police who will have been involved. I have already traced the right office to call and have done so. They are going to find the officer who dealt with the incident and get him/her to call me.
If anyone else can help in tracing the exact address then it would be appreciated.
This link directly to the article in the newspaper does give some information that might help. For instance... do any of you know the company where he was working at the time etc?
http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_87794.php
Until we get the address there is no real point in accepting donations.
When we get it what I propose is that anyone wishing to doante can send it to my office. I personally am extremely busy so if payment could be made out to G McCann
( my wife) and sent CARE OF our company address the office staff will easilly be able to keep a record of all donations. They will then be banked in my wife's personal account. This way none of the donations will be in any company name. The best way I think. It has been made clear to me that my offer to fully fund the flowers is appreciated but people would rather the cost of them be taken from the donations received. So what I will do is to arrange the floral tribute and add my own contribution to the total received and then pay or the flowers from the total. If there is a surplus and I am sure there will be then the balance will be sent to the family in whatever way they can accept it.
Again is this OK with you all?
I will keep you updated as things happen.
Andrew
-
Andrew,
It sounds excellent. It's your shout, mate and good on you for taking the time to hunt this guy down. I'm sure his family will appreciate it.
I'll have a look round 192.com to see if I can find him.
-
I remember using a Bt telephone address checker to trace someone who my daughter had met on holiday,successfully but now got to regester and pay for it so if someone wants to spend time tracing the street and name it will come up,but lost the link.
gaza
-
Andrew,
Just had chance to read your last entry, agree with what youve wrote to do, & must say thank you for the effort you put in from me & other members.
Ive located a Castle Street in Brownhills, its WS8 Postcode just outside Brownhills. (New Town)
Approxiametly 2 miles from Brownhills town centre, but Brownhills Community School is only across the road. Watling Street, A5
Gary.
-
http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/chronicles/lichfield/article_87915.php
Sarah
-
Thanks for the help folks.
So it is looking like it is the castle street in Brownhills
That rally narrows it down. I will try tomorrow through police etc to get the house name or number.
Andrew
-
Hi again all.
Called the police again today and again no-one got back to me. I did speak to a senior officer who said that he would do what he can for me.
Again..if anyone can help all we need is the house name or number. I will try calling the school mentioned above as well tomorrow.
Andrew
-
Andrew,
It sounds like you've tried your best and have already went beyond the call of duty.
If you don't hear from the police; leave it.
Good on you for trying though.
Regards,
Tosh.
-
Just a thought. data protection act puts the police in a difficult position.
But if you could locate a 3rd party who knows the family they might assist.
Anyone tried contacting the newspaper to let them know what the w/c fraternity is wanting to do? They may be willing to assist if they realise the potential response. they may have interviewed a friend of the family.
It is a tragic loss. The family may just want to be left alone. On the other hand they may see a bigger picture and realise many would like to send their condolances and have great empathy.
-
Maybe try local undertakers?
Just a thought.
Tomorrow if I'm lucky I've have some spare time during the afternoon so I'll try and make a few phone calls as usuallly the flowers or whatever would go to them anyway.
Cheers
-
My thoughts too Ross.
I have been keeping an eye on the Obit section of the Litchfield paper just in case it mentions the FD - easy to get their numbers and perhaps post the flowers to them instead.
So far no notices.
Sarah
-
PJ
I have spoken to the newspaper twice. The first tme I got a little info. The 2nd I got some reporter who started to ask leading questions along the lines of how many times does this type of thing happen etc. I told him firmly that to try and get a story from this tragic situation was in bad taste and that if he wanted that type of info I am not the person to give it to him. He went all sheepish and left it at that.
I had explained almost exactly along the lines of what you have just said to him as well. I was angry at his attempt to score personal points out of this.
Thanks for the offer Ross and sarah. I am really very busy indeed during the day so honestly dont get as much of a chance to make the phone calls as I would like to.
Andrew
-
I thought you probably had done your best, Andrew.
Just like the nationals, even local newspapers...like mercenary bloodhounds.
-
Have you tried the hospital where he was taken, they won't give his address but their counseling services would pass a message back to the family.
-
Just a thought try the address where he fell from his ladder as a customer they may have details
-
Another thought have you tried window cleaners in the Walsall area, they might
know him. Here are just a few :-
http://www.townpages.com/west-midlands/walsall/window-cleaner.htm
-
Hi,
Detective Sarah Sarill here.
Just to say I have just emailed Andrew the name, address and telephone number of the Funeral Directors who are handling this gentelmans funeral arrangements. I have had it confirmed via a 3rd party that this info is correct and they have given my contact permission to tell me who they were.
I have not spoken to the myself to find out when the service is but would suggest, we send the flowers to the FD rather than the family at this time.
Andrew, if you want e to phone the FD as a double check and to get date details etc., just let me know - you have my addy.
Sarah
-
Thanks for the info detective Sarah ;D
As it happens I now have a message on my answerphone from the police who have contacted Mrs French. She has given them permission to pass the number on to me which I now have.
Unavoidably I am away all day tomorrow so wont be able to do anything.
The police suggested that I call Mrs French. I am willing to do this on behalf of the forum members to maybe get details of funeral etc and also to pass on the forums condolences to her. I dont want to do anything without the forums approval so I need an answer very quickly. Does anyone have any objection to me calling Mrs French tonight?
Andrew
-
Thanks for the info detective Sarah ;D
As it happens I now have a message on my answerphone from the police who have contacted Mrs French. She has given them permission to pass the number on to me which I now have.
Unavoidably I am away all day tomorrow so wont be able to do anything.
The police suggested that I call Mrs French. I am willing to do this on behalf of the forum members to maybe get details of funeral etc and also to pass on the forums condolences to her. I dont want to do anything without the forums approval so I need an answer very quickly. Does anyone have any objection to me calling Mrs French tonight?
Andrew
Andrew. I'm not sure if you are referring to the late window cleaner's wife but I thought the surname was Welsh.
-
Sorry mate it was.
I've been so busy I dont know if I am coming or going lately :-[
Andrew
Nope according to the paper and the polce it is French..
-
Sorry mate it was.
I've been so busy I dont know if I am coming or going lately :-[
Andrew
Nope according to the paper and the polce it is French..
Oh OK. It's just that you wrote Welsh in an earlier post. I guess that the earlier info was the incorrect name then.
I wasn't trying to be picky BTW Andrew. I just didn't think you would want to upset the family by accidentally using the wrong name. If you want to donate flowers or whatever, I would be happy to chip in towards it.