Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Alex Wingrove on September 15, 2013, 10:47:17 pm

Title: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 15, 2013, 10:47:17 pm
I added the flue for the third boiler tonight and added the fire proof sealant aswell.

Here are a couple of pics.

Alex

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7o1tRwLnAxw/UjYfCYvICDI/AAAAAAAAN24/-bZUkqIkFxo/w958-h635-no/DSC_0580.NEF)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QZiTXr1pzwg/UjYfCacdxVI/AAAAAAAAN20/pYor1xglEOo/w958-h635-no/DSC_0581.NEF)
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: ben M on September 15, 2013, 10:53:07 pm
look great! Are you happy with theses boilers? Where did you buy them?
Did you install yourself the flue through the roof?
Thanks
Ben
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 15, 2013, 11:24:08 pm
Very, Darren, Very.

3 boiler are  for solar work, we use 2 every day however.

I fitted myself, with the right hole cutters its very easy to do.

I got them from ebay, they are the 8l ones, and they are the best I have ever used

Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: ben M on September 15, 2013, 11:27:05 pm
Very, Darren, Very.

3 boiler are  for solar work, we use 2 every day however.

I fitted myself, with the right hole cutters its very easy to do.

I got them from ebay, they are the 8l ones, and they are the best I have ever used


very easy to do,are you sure? lol
which hole cutters have you got?
Could you show a pic of the outside to see the flue on top of your roof?
Many thanks
Ben
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 15, 2013, 11:37:01 pm
Yeah, measure twice cut once.

I have these http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-holesaws-15-piece-kit/93131

I will take a picture tommrrow
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: ben M on September 15, 2013, 11:46:39 pm
Yeah, measure twice cut once.

I have these http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-holesaws-15-piece-kit/93131

I will take a picture tommrrow
Thank you Alex  :)
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: spongebob on September 16, 2013, 07:44:42 am
One hole for one flue. These are carbon monoxide producing devices. If you employ anyone you could be jailed for manslaughter if that went wrong. This same installation in a mobile catering van which is subject to council inspection would have you prosecuted by the health and safety executive. If you are taking this vehicle onto commercial cleaning jobs/sites then you could run into problems if anyone sees it.
It's your business but be careful.
Andy
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Dave Willis on September 16, 2013, 07:54:48 am
Lot of joints on that gas pipe - is that wise? I don't know.

If they are 8l boilers and most pumps put out 5l max - could you not run two hoses from one boiler or is it too much? I'm guessing nobody uses 5l a minute due to hose diameter.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Lee GLS on September 16, 2013, 08:18:14 am
I use a 6L with 2 pumps and have the heat setting just over half way, that Ives me 40deg at the brush head.

I can possibly understand have 2 if you use a high flow rate, but having a third boiler seems a bit of an overkill
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Spruce on September 16, 2013, 09:57:42 am
I added the flue for the third boiler tonight and added the fire proof sealant aswell.

Here are a couple of pics.

Alex

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7o1tRwLnAxw/UjYfCYvICDI/AAAAAAAAN24/-bZUkqIkFxo/w958-h635-no/DSC_0580.NEF)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QZiTXr1pzwg/UjYfCacdxVI/AAAAAAAAN20/pYor1xglEOo/w958-h635-no/DSC_0581.NEF)

Hi Alex

It looks as though you have used silicone hose elbows on the exhaust. Will those be able to cope with the heat if you don't find me asking?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: spongebob on September 16, 2013, 12:58:01 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Michael Peterson on September 16, 2013, 02:40:11 pm
It will be hot heat rises it will go out the top not sneak it's  way down and out into the van
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: robert mitchell on September 16, 2013, 02:52:08 pm
Depends on tbe type of flue .

The wind blowing in an open flue could overcome heat rising, I have no idea if these boilers are fan flued or open flue , prob best to ask an expert .
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: C o z y on September 16, 2013, 03:04:52 pm
Here's an old boiler from near to where we work.

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379340237_imagesCAQDMCIX.jpg)




  I'll get my coat  ::)roll
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: robert mitchell on September 16, 2013, 03:11:07 pm
Where did you get that pic of my mrs ?  ;D
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Dave Willis on September 16, 2013, 04:36:44 pm
Can you run three appliances from one gas regulator?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: [GQC] Tim on September 16, 2013, 05:55:18 pm
Pic of the roof vent please. :)

I've got a hard enough time exhausting one boiler through a mush room vent without getting moisture in the back, wonder what it's like with three going through one exhaust. Next up for me is installing a Flettner.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 16, 2013, 07:24:36 pm
Lot of joints on that gas pipe - is that wise? I don't know.

If they are 8l boilers and most pumps put out 5l max - could you not run two hoses from one boiler or is it too much? I'm guessing nobody uses 5l a minute due to hose diameter.

The 8l refers to the maximum flow that this boiler can cope with, not the minimum. With the pump on full these boilers are only capable of heating up the water to  50deg.

The 5l even less so,

The kw load is very low on these boilers and the gas bottle is capable of feeding all three with out freeing up.



The third boiler is not over kill if you have three pumps using 2l per minute each.

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-102mm-to-76mm-15-colours.html

Check out the operating temps here. The gas temp doesnt get any where near this. Also the alloy pipe.

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-hose-shop/alloy-stainless-steel-pipes/custom-alloy-hose-joiners.html

And fire proof sealant.

Considering heat rises, its not an issue. Secondly I don't stand next to the boiler when its pumping out. I am busy working. As you can see I have a bulk head which is sealed.

A gas fire gives off more Co2 that these do, but people use them in sheds etc.

Side effects none of which I have suffered from over the last 4 years

headaches
dizziness
nausea
breathlessness
collapse
loss of consciousness

These products are not sealed. Not all the gas escapes through the flue. Thats why they are intended for outdoor use.

Roof Vent

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VwW7A3O_USA/UjdMvbjpVAI/AAAAAAAAN3M/wHFU3cWPLPM/w958-h635-no/DSC_0583.NEF)


Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 16, 2013, 07:29:06 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?

Can you please tell me how you would get CO poisoning if the van doors where open?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 16, 2013, 07:30:03 pm
Pic of the roof vent please. :)

I've got a hard enough time exhausting one boiler through a mush room vent without getting moisture in the back, wonder what it's like with three going through one exhaust. Next up for me is installing a Flettner.


I haven't had any moisture inside the van yet. This suggests to me that it is well vented
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: [GQC] Tim on September 16, 2013, 07:50:17 pm
Indeed, I've had a close look at my van, and it seems that apart from the hole in the floor for the rollers, it's incredibly well closed off. The Berlingo had vents inside the back of the chassis, I didn't have that much of a problem with the old van. Oh well, small thing, roof spinner will sort it out.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Dave Willis on September 16, 2013, 08:05:46 pm
I have the Fogwash vented through the roof and you are right it isn't a sealed unit. The metal flue does get pretty hot though.

Have you fired them all up yet?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: ben M on September 16, 2013, 08:22:47 pm
Thank you Alex for your links and pic

Do you use this flue for your boiler? http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-102mm-to-76mm-15-colours.html

Only asking that because i will buy the same boiler.

Many thanks

Ben
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 16, 2013, 08:30:33 pm
I have the Fogwash vented through the roof and you are right it isn't a sealed unit. The metal flue does get pretty hot though.

Have you fired them all up yet?

It does get hot, but not 120deg hot having said that I havent put a thermo on it yet.

When using two it gets a little bit hotter but not much, The bulk head is warm though
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: [GQC] Tim on September 16, 2013, 08:52:17 pm
I have the Fogwash vented through the roof and you are right it isn't a sealed unit. The metal flue does get pretty hot though.

Have you fired them all up yet?

That's correct, the Fogwash isn't great in this regard. I'd assume/hope that Alex's heaters are a bit more refined. It would greatly help in expelling hot gases from the van. I will eventually get the same heater as him, but my Fogwash is still going great with no issues.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: spongebob on September 16, 2013, 09:28:27 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?

Can you please tell me how you would get CO poisoning if the van doors where open?

Hi Alex.
Basically if the rear doors are open and there is a strong wind blowing over your van in the right direction the  chimney/flue principal operating from the boiler can be reversed and the products are pulled back down through the boiler into the van. A wrongly placed roof light on a house roof near to a low chimney can cause the same effect. It sounds like you have a sealed bulkhead and the CO products will not enter the cabin. However many others are following your advice and may not have as good a barrier. The lack of condensation in the van indicates that the products of combustion are escaping safely for now. Keep an eye on things now you are running three boilers though.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Spruce on September 16, 2013, 09:32:18 pm
I have the Fogwash vented through the roof and you are right it isn't a sealed unit. The metal flue does get pretty hot though.

Have you fired them all up yet?

It does get hot, but not 120deg hot having said that I havent put a thermo on it yet.

When using two it gets a little bit hotter but not much, The bulk head is warm though

Thanks Alex. I thought the exhaust got hotter than that - thats why I asked.

Cheers
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: richard jagger on September 16, 2013, 10:30:24 pm
I ran the same boiler for 2 years and there much gas from the boiler.I in the height of winter and been very cold would hold my face over the outlet and never felt any ill effects. 
I would not change a Fgg wash for then boiler made in China,the heat exchanger on them is paper thin were the Fog wash is a more heavy metal construction.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: [GQC] Tim on September 17, 2013, 07:32:20 am
I ran the same boiler for 2 years and there much gas from the boiler.I in the height of winter and been very cold would hold my face over the outlet and never felt any ill effects. 
I would not change a Fgg wash for then boiler made in China,the heat exchanger on them is paper thin were the Fog wash is a more heavy metal construction.

You do realize the Fogwash is made in China right?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on September 17, 2013, 09:19:23 am
What gas regulator do you use? I've had to change mine as it stopped working and found that the replacement will only manage one boiler.

Simon.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 18, 2013, 06:10:35 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?

Can you please tell me how you would get CO poisoning if the van doors where open?

Hi Alex.
Basically if the rear doors are open and there is a strong wind blowing over your van in the right direction the  chimney/flue principal operating from the boiler can be reversed and the products are pulled back down through the boiler into the van. A wrongly placed roof light on a house roof near to a low chimney can cause the same effect. It sounds like you have a sealed bulkhead and the CO products will not enter the cabin. However many others are following your advice and may not have as good a barrier. The lack of condensation in the van indicates that the products of combustion are escaping safely for now. Keep an eye on things now you are running three boilers though.

I would imagine though that the fact that the doors are open means that there is good ventilation and therefore no one is in danger from CO
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: spongebob on September 18, 2013, 06:28:10 pm
Yes probably the case in your van. In others with holes in bulkheads though the cab could be full. All I know is that the pursuit of saving a couple of quid on the correct flue product combined with LPG gas safety or lack of it will claim its first victim soon. I can make more per hour cleaning than gas installing somedays yet it seems everyone on here resents paying to have the boilers installed for less than they earn cleaning.
I am perhaps being over the top but its always best to think of the worst case scenario. Unlike a lot of others on here with an opinion mine is informed.
Andy
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Carl@Cwc on September 18, 2013, 06:38:52 pm
alex

are these 8L off the bay?

would one be suffice for 2 ops running at half  speed on the pump controllers?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: richard jagger on September 18, 2013, 06:50:29 pm
Silicon hose is perfect for the boilers  heat/ fume vent. They can take a lot of heat. If one just looks at the  latest in oven baking trays they are all silicon. Silcon is second only to Teflon.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: 8weekly on September 18, 2013, 06:58:43 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?

Can you please tell me how you would get CO poisoning if the van doors where open?

Hi Alex.
Basically if the rear doors are open and there is a strong wind blowing over your van in the right direction the  chimney/flue principal operating from the boiler can be reversed and the products are pulled back down through the boiler into the van. A wrongly placed roof light on a house roof near to a low chimney can cause the same effect. It sounds like you have a sealed bulkhead and the CO products will not enter the cabin. However many others are following your advice and may not have as good a barrier. The lack of condensation in the van indicates that the products of combustion are escaping safely for now. Keep an eye on things now you are running three boilers though.

I would imagine though that the fact that the doors are open means that there is good ventilation and therefore no one is in danger from CO
People die in tents from CO poisoning, so not sure you are right on that.
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 18, 2013, 07:11:45 pm
What's stopping the flue products from one boiler entering the other boilers and out through the bottom into the van? Totally possible on a windy day with the doors open. Will it take a CO related death either directly or through driving whilst CO poisoned before people stop trying to save money by being this foolish?

Can you please tell me how you would get CO poisoning if the van doors where open?

Hi Alex.
Basically if the rear doors are open and there is a strong wind blowing over your van in the right direction the  chimney/flue principal operating from the boiler can be reversed and the products are pulled back down through the boiler into the van. A wrongly placed roof light on a house roof near to a low chimney can cause the same effect. It sounds like you have a sealed bulkhead and the CO products will not enter the cabin. However many others are following your advice and may not have as good a barrier. The lack of condensation in the van indicates that the products of combustion are escaping safely for now. Keep an eye on things now you are running three boilers though.

I would imagine though that the fact that the doors are open means that there is good ventilation and therefore no one is in danger from CO
People die in tents from CO poisoning, so not sure you are right on that.

Because its sealed. And they are breathing it in over the course of 6 to 8 hours.

However to ease you troubled minds, I will fit a Monoxide alarm, in the cab and in the back
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 18, 2013, 07:13:56 pm
alex

are these 8L off the bay?

would one be suffice for 2 ops running at half  speed on the pump controllers?

One would suffice.

The problem I have found with this using a 10l boiler is setup

These boiler ideally need to be calibrated to each pump, each hose and, each pole.

As soon as you add another pump its gets complicated.

Also when one user stops his flow, the other users flow doubles and then uses more water.

I got them from ebay
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Carl@Cwc on September 18, 2013, 07:27:56 pm
alex

are these 8L off the bay?

would one be suffice for 2 ops running at half  speed on the pump controllers?

One would suffice.

The problem I have found with this using a 10l boiler is setup

These boiler ideally need to be calibrated to each pump, each hose and, each pole.

As soon as you add another pump its gets complicated.

Also when one user stops his flow, the other users flow doubles and then uses more water.

I got them from ebay

so an 8l on its own with own pump and controller would be good then.

i have a fogwash in one van
and want to add 2 boilers to the 2 man van set up. each op has own pump and controller
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 18, 2013, 08:18:25 pm
It will work, but I wouldn't describe it as good.

You will get the water coming out of the boiler at a maximum of 50deg.

So this will mean 30deg at the brush head
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Frankybadboy on September 18, 2013, 08:21:20 pm
 a link to the boilers please guys ;)
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Carl@Cwc on September 18, 2013, 08:26:06 pm
It will work, but I wouldn't describe it as good.

You will get the water coming out of the boiler at a maximum of 50deg.

So this will mean 30deg at the brush head

what doesnt work m8 ? probably me being an idiot.

8l boiler, 1 pump , 1 controller?

why would it only come out at 50 degrees?

my fogwash is connected the same way ,> fogwash>1 pump> 1 controller  and i can get it boiling hot

does each of your boilers have seperate controllers & pumps
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 19, 2013, 01:53:15 pm
Because you are running two users from one pump the flow rate will inscrease. Because there is a increase in flow the water wont be as hot.

On the 10l boiler that I had because it was 15% larger than yours the water still could come out very hot.

But it was difficult to configure because when one user stopped his flow the flow rate would slow and the water would boil inside the boiler
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: ptwt on September 19, 2013, 06:03:06 pm
Alex do you have vents in your van floor?
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on September 20, 2013, 05:27:51 pm
I must say Alex, I really don't think you have a clue and have acted rashly, without thought, planning of the job at hand or consideration to your workforce. How very dare you... ;D
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on September 20, 2013, 05:28:40 pm
P.S. I'm always here to help! ;D
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 20, 2013, 09:29:27 pm
Alex do you have vents in your van floor?

Nope

Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: Alex Wingrove on September 20, 2013, 09:29:40 pm
I must say Alex, I really don't think you have a clue and have acted rashly, without thought, planning of the job at hand or consideration to your workforce. How very dare you... ;D

Shut it Muppet.......

Only you are allowed to be chastised not me.

I have been thinking about the possibility of 4-6 users from a single boiler, with a proper water supply
Title: Re: Boilers. PICTURES
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on September 20, 2013, 09:37:32 pm
I must say Alex, I really don't think you have a clue and have acted rashly, without thought, planning of the job at hand or consideration to your workforce. How very dare you... ;D

Shut it Muppet.......

Only you are allowed to be chastised not me.

I have been thinking about the possibility of 4-6 users from a single boiler, with a proper water supply
;D