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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Small but perfectley formed on September 09, 2013, 02:16:43 pm

Title: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on September 09, 2013, 02:16:43 pm
I have had a reply from June at Gaps  :o
Looks like ionics are being very naughty ???
If any one would like to read June reply email me j.green9669@me.com
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on September 09, 2013, 02:51:16 pm
Hi Trevor just sent over email
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Nathanael Jones on September 09, 2013, 02:57:14 pm
forward a copy to me too pls! info@avondhu-internet.com  ;D
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: PAUL ERITH on September 09, 2013, 03:35:47 pm
Forward me a copy please Paul@erithwc.co.uk
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: dave0123 on September 09, 2013, 04:26:26 pm
same here plz mate voi-p@hotmail.co.uk June knows her stuff  :D
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on September 09, 2013, 04:34:11 pm
Having read June's reply what do you think :o
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: niceandclean on September 09, 2013, 04:38:56 pm
Could I jump on the bandwagon?
Niceandclean2012@hotmail.co.uk
 ;D
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: trevor perry on September 09, 2013, 04:40:40 pm
Having read June's reply what do you think :o
I think ionics have shot themselves in the foot with this one and it could seriously damage their reputation, basically looks like they are just trying to justify a bigger price tag for their equipment, would love to hear ionics reply to the letter
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: PoleKing on September 09, 2013, 04:41:09 pm
Can I have a butchers please?


Darren@LanesWindowCleaning.com
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: dave0123 on September 09, 2013, 04:44:30 pm
i haven't looked at the ppb to be honest, but what is the difference more membranes or just different resin?


TBH i think ionic are idiots! more rogue than any other company in the industry by the looks of things!  >:(
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: DG Cleaning on September 09, 2013, 04:49:09 pm
I've not read the reply but I've posted before about Ionics.
 There stuff is massively overpriced anyway.
Its like designer clothes.
I admire them for building a brand that window cleaners aspire to. Even to the point of giving them free advertising on the side of the van.
Its not for me though even if I had a fleet of vans on the road it wouldn't be full of Ionics or Grippamax.
Some people have no idea or can't get their head round how a system works even though its very simple so they go for a brand to feel safe.
You can't blame Ionics for taking their money.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Nathanael Jones on September 09, 2013, 04:50:52 pm
Having read June's reply what do you think :o

I think someone should inform trading standards!  :o
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: dave0123 on September 09, 2013, 04:51:59 pm
Quote
I've not read the reply but I've posted before about Ionics.
 There stuff is massively overpriced anyway.
Its like designer clothes.
I admire them for building a brand that window cleaners aspire to. Even to the point of giving them free advertising on the side of the van.
Its not for me though even if I had a fleet of vans on the road it wouldn't be full of Ionics or Grippamax.
Some people have no idea or can't get their head round how a system works even though its very simple so they go for a brand to feel safe.


thats not the point here though, this is complete false miss leading advertising claims.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: dave0123 on September 09, 2013, 04:53:49 pm
its a bit like going out .. buying a 40ft pole getting home then it only reaches 20ft lol
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: DG Cleaning on September 09, 2013, 05:02:07 pm
Quote
I've not read the reply but I've posted before about Ionics.
 There stuff is massively overpriced anyway.
Its like designer clothes.
I admire them for building a brand that window cleaners aspire to. Even to the point of giving them free advertising on the side of the van.
Its not for me though even if I had a fleet of vans on the road it wouldn't be full of Ionics or Grippamax.
Some people have no idea or can't get their head round how a system works even though its very simple so they go for a brand to feel safe.


thats not the point here though, this is complete false miss leading advertising claims.

I suppose so but suppliers do these things.
We've got poles advertised as full carbon by one supplier yet the bottom section is full fibreglass.
If people are happy to buy it who cares?
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: formb on September 09, 2013, 06:58:46 pm
Thanks.

Think I'll give ppb a miss.

 8)
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Pete Thompson on September 09, 2013, 06:59:28 pm
I forwarded the email to craig mawlams at ionic and I got a reply, he said this:

Hi Pete, thanks for the email, it is interesting that question of parts per billion is now being discussed more widely, in many ways it reminds me of the time when we launched our first hot water Thermopure systems.  Back then we had competitors coming out with all kinds of outlandish things about the use of hot pure water, from "it makes windows dirtier" to "it damages windows".  I didn't bother to entertain their arguments then, and I won't now for a simple reason - the proof is in the pudding.

Nowadays, Thermopure systems are everywhere, and currently Ionic sell about twice as many hot water as cold water systems.  When window cleaners actually used hot water, they saw the difference and the benefits for themselves.  (incidentally, most, if not all of those competitors that used to naysay hot water have since gone out of business, and that more than anything tells me that I was right)  The same will be true with PPB.

There is some truth to what June at Gapswater has said.  It is true that using resin alone isn't enough to produce water thats 0PPB.  That is why the Zero system has a sophisticated and automated water treatment process with several stages that we developed just for the Zero.  It simply couldn't be done as a DIY system.

We could get bogged down in the science of the subject, and that is interesting for some, but of much greater interest to most is whether it actually makes any practical difference when window cleaning.  As I'm sure I mentioned when you came to the BWCA training course, I was a window cleaner myself for decades cleaning some of the tallest buildings around, and when it came to new gadgets and gizmos, all that really mattered to me is whether it would save time, and therefore money.  This concept was the driving force behind Zero PPB, and indeed all of Ionic's innovations.

Just like hot water, the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself.  Of course we'll always get this those who will naysay the whole idea as a gimmick, just as they did for hot water, and even the Reach & Wash System itself.  That's fine, I have no problem with that at all because I know that the proof really is in the pudding.  In the mean time, forward thinking window cleaners who want to have the edge will actually use one of our Zero PPB systems, just as they did with our Thermopure systems, and reap the benefits.  We published the comments of two such window cleaners in our recent mailing, and in my view their words as window cleaners are as good as any that I could write!

Craig Mawlam

--

Craig Mawlam

The British Window Cleaning Academy
T: +44 (0) 1793 497 786
F: +44 (0) 1793 486 518
www.bwca.co.uk
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Nathanael Jones on September 09, 2013, 07:01:47 pm
So basically - "No comment - but hot water is great"...  ::)roll
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: PoleKing on September 09, 2013, 07:03:13 pm
Good answer from Craig.
He doesn't admit it's any better himself.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: formb on September 09, 2013, 07:04:56 pm
"i could get bogged down in the science"

Yeah but you don't . Wonder why?
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: robert mitchell on September 09, 2013, 07:15:30 pm
Can I see junes email too please .

Mitchell_robert9@sky.com
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Moderator David@stives on September 09, 2013, 07:21:11 pm
me to please

dmwc@talktalk.net
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: George P on September 09, 2013, 07:24:48 pm
me too please george@georgepowell.wanadoo.co.uk
cheers
george
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: dazmond on September 09, 2013, 07:28:49 pm
as a sole trader window cleaner id be seriously out of pocket if i believed all their hype and slick marketing and bought all their over complicated,overblown and ridiculously over priced gear.

you can get wfp equipment that does the job just as well for a fraction of the price elsewhere.


regards



dazmond
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: davids3511 on September 09, 2013, 08:34:33 pm
Watch them lobby and lobby to get diy systems banned by the insurance companies with their system being the "gold standard" of safety. It's gotta be on their list of things to get round to.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: AuRavelling79 on September 09, 2013, 08:55:13 pm
Go on Nathanael get trading standards involved .. hang on a mo' ...

PPB is brilliant because any windy who is daft enough to fall for the hype is going to have to charge top whack to help repay the money he's chucked away and for ongoing filtration too. Great for prices all round.

PPB is brilliant because if said windy doesn't succeed he'll have a few dozen custies at high prices ready to be picked up.

Every one is a winner except the poor sucker who unnecessarily paid tens of thousands for van and system and thousands for filtration when he only needed to pay thousands and hundreds.

And as for hot water, poor old Ionics have got to face geezers fitting geysers (see what I did there?)  for a few hundred and doing just as good a job as far as the custy is concerned; and even yours truly has hot enough water for about £50 with an electric element!

No wonder these types rarely post on here (and change those posts to read differently when challenged and run away, remember that?) any more ...
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Nathanael Jones on September 09, 2013, 10:02:51 pm
Go on Nathanael get trading standards involved .. hang on a mo' ...


I did actually look into it when they first came out with the 1000x better rubbish - turns out that reporting anything to trading standards from outside the uk is pretty much impossible. Even from within the UK the paperwork looks like itd be a nightmare. :(
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: PoleKing on September 09, 2013, 10:12:07 pm
what about advertising standards?
There's always reports of x people complained that someone said 'arse' on eastenders before 9pm isnt there.
Is that the same thing at all?
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: G Griffin on September 09, 2013, 10:34:20 pm
I forwarded the email to craig mawlams at ionic and I got a reply, he said
Just like hot water, the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself.
Craig Mawlam


He's got a point; I'll have to order one, then  :P.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: [GQC] Tim on September 10, 2013, 06:26:21 pm
I forwarded the email to craig mawlams at ionic and I got a reply, he said this:

Hi Pete, thanks for the email, it is interesting that question of parts per billion is now being discussed more widely, in many ways it reminds me of the time when we launched our first hot water Thermopure systems.  Back then we had competitors coming out with all kinds of outlandish things about the use of hot pure water, from "it makes windows dirtier" to "it damages windows".  I didn't bother to entertain their arguments then, and I won't now for a simple reason - the proof is in the pudding.

Nowadays, Thermopure systems are everywhere, and currently Ionic sell about twice as many hot water as cold water systems.  When window cleaners actually used hot water, they saw the difference and the benefits for themselves.  (incidentally, most, if not all of those competitors that used to naysay hot water have since gone out of business, and that more than anything tells me that I was right)  The same will be true with PPB.

There is some truth to what June at Gapswater has said.  It is true that using resin alone isn't enough to produce water thats 0PPB.  That is why the Zero system has a sophisticated and automated water treatment process with several stages that we developed just for the Zero.  It simply couldn't be done as a DIY system.

We could get bogged down in the science of the subject, and that is interesting for some, but of much greater interest to most is whether it actually makes any practical difference when window cleaning.  As I'm sure I mentioned when you came to the BWCA training course, I was a window cleaner myself for decades cleaning some of the tallest buildings around, and when it came to new gadgets and gizmos, all that really mattered to me is whether it would save time, and therefore money.  This concept was the driving force behind Zero PPB, and indeed all of Ionic's innovations.

Just like hot water, the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself.  Of course we'll always get this those who will naysay the whole idea as a gimmick, just as they did for hot water, and even the Reach & Wash System itself.  That's fine, I have no problem with that at all because I know that the proof really is in the pudding.  In the mean time, forward thinking window cleaners who want to have the edge will actually use one of our Zero PPB systems, just as they did with our Thermopure systems, and reap the benefits.  We published the comments of two such window cleaners in our recent mailing, and in my view their words as window cleaners are as good as any that I could write!

Craig Mawlam

--

Craig Mawlam

The British Window Cleaning Academy
T: +44 (0) 1793 497 786
F: +44 (0) 1793 486 518
www.bwca.co.uk

Let's clear this up a bit, UV doesn't lower TDS, does Ozone? Even if it does, I highly doubt that Ozone alone takes it down to 0 ppb.

Shame he doesn't seem to have the knowledge to explain this.
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: formb on September 10, 2013, 06:43:13 pm
Quote from: Ionics
Hi Pete, thanks for the email, it is interesting that question of parts per billion is now being discussed more widely, in many ways it reminds me of the time when we launched our first hot water Thermopure systems.  Back then we had competitors coming out with all kinds of outlandish things about the use of hot pure water, from "it makes windows dirtier" to "it damages windows".  I didn't bother to entertain their arguments then, and I won't now for a simple reason - the proof is in the pudding.

Nowadays, Thermopure systems are everywhere, and currently Ionic sell about twice as many hot water as cold water systems.  When window cleaners actually used hot water, they saw the difference and the benefits for themselves.  (incidentally, most, if not all of those competitors that used to naysay hot water have since gone out of business, and that more than anything tells me that I was right)  The same will be true with PPB.

There is some truth to what June at Gapswater has said.  It is true that using resin alone isn't enough to produce water thats 0PPB.  That is why the Zero system has a sophisticated and automated water treatment process with several stages that we developed just for the Zero.  It simply couldn't be done as a DIY system.

We could get bogged down in the science of the subject, and that is interesting for some, but of much greater interest to most is whether it actually makes any practical difference when window cleaning.  As I'm sure I mentioned when you came to the BWCA training course, I was a window cleaner myself for decades cleaning some of the tallest buildings around, and when it came to new gadgets and gizmos, all that really mattered to me is whether it would save time, and therefore money.  This concept was the driving force behind Zero PPB, and indeed all of Ionic's innovations.

Just like hot water, the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself.  Of course we'll always get this those who will naysay the whole idea as a gimmick, just as they did for hot water, and even the Reach & Wash System itself.  That's fine, I have no problem with that at all because I know that the proof really is in the pudding.  In the mean time, forward thinking window cleaners who want to have the edge will actually use one of our Zero PPB systems, just as they did with our Thermopure systems, and reap the benefits.  We published the comments of two such window cleaners in our recent mailing, and in my view their words as window cleaners are as good as any that I could write!

Craig Mawlam

--

Craig Mawlam

The British Window Cleaning Academy
T: +44 (0) 1793 497 786
F: +44 (0) 1793 486 518
www.bwca.co.uk


Two window cleaners, who most likely get some kind of discount on their overpriced system.

All sounds a bit 'emperor's new clothes' to me. Looks like I might not be a "forward thinking window cleaner" but hey, Ionics have now stopped coming north of Glasgow, so what chuffing use are they to me anyway?

Like the man says "the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself".

Pfffft
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on September 10, 2013, 07:39:17 pm
Quote from: Ionics
Hi Pete, thanks for the email, it is interesting that question of parts per billion is now being discussed more widely, in many ways it reminds me of the time when we launched our first hot water Thermopure systems.  Back then we had competitors coming out with all kinds of outlandish things about the use of hot pure water, from "it makes windows dirtier" to "it damages windows".  I didn't bother to entertain their arguments then, and I won't now for a simple reason - the proof is in the pudding.

Nowadays, Thermopure systems are everywhere, and currently Ionic sell about twice as many hot water as cold water systems.  When window cleaners actually used hot water, they saw the difference and the benefits for themselves.  (incidentally, most, if not all of those competitors that used to naysay hot water have since gone out of business, and that more than anything tells me that I was right)  The same will be true with PPB.

There is some truth to what June at Gapswater has said.  It is true that using resin alone isn't enough to produce water thats 0PPB.  That is why the Zero system has a sophisticated and automated water treatment process with several stages that we developed just for the Zero.  It simply couldn't be done as a DIY system.

We could get bogged down in the science of the subject, and that is interesting for some, but of much greater interest to most is whether it actually makes any practical difference when window cleaning.  As I'm sure I mentioned when you came to the BWCA training course, I was a window cleaner myself for decades cleaning some of the tallest buildings around, and when it came to new gadgets and gizmos, all that really mattered to me is whether it would save time, and therefore money.  This concept was the driving force behind Zero PPB, and indeed all of Ionic's innovations.

Just like hot water, the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself.  Of course we'll always get this those who will naysay the whole idea as a gimmick, just as they did for hot water, and even the Reach & Wash System itself.  That's fine, I have no problem with that at all because I know that the proof really is in the pudding.  In the mean time, forward thinking window cleaners who want to have the edge will actually use one of our Zero PPB systems, just as they did with our Thermopure systems, and reap the benefits.  We published the comments of two such window cleaners in our recent mailing, and in my view their words as window cleaners are as good as any that I could write!

Craig Mawlam

--

Craig Mawlam

The British Window Cleaning Academy
T: +44 (0) 1793 497 786
F: +44 (0) 1793 486 518
www.bwca.co.uk


Two window cleaners, who most likely get some kind of discount on their overpriced system.

All sounds a bit 'emperor's new clothes' to me. Looks like I might not be a "forward thinking window cleaner" but hey, Ionics have now stopped coming north of Glasgow, so what chuffing use are they to me anyway?

Like the man says "the only real way to see the difference is to try it for yourself".

Pfffft

Don't know about discount, more likely to be two very gullible pillocks sat in an office!! ::)roll
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on September 10, 2013, 07:40:17 pm
Ionics are becoming a Parasite!!
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: Stephen.C on September 10, 2013, 09:08:38 pm
Go on Nathanael get trading standards involved .. hang on a mo' ...


I did actually look into it when they first came out with the 1000x better rubbish - turns out that reporting anything to trading standards from outside the uk is pretty much impossible. Even from within the UK the paperwork looks like itd be a nightmare. :(
Rubbish you bottled son
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: cleartech Window Cleaners on September 11, 2013, 09:47:46 am
Wouldn't mind reading the email. Thanks
info@cleartechwindowcleaners.co.uk
Title: Re: PPB it's bull poop
Post by: SunShineCleaning on September 11, 2013, 04:11:18 pm
While you're at it. s@sunshine-cleaning.net

Ta