Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Griffus on September 05, 2013, 09:28:16 pm
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We are considering sub-contracting external windows / soffits on a few of our sites. This will most likely be up until Christmas but if things go well then could continue.
Sites considered at this point are in Telford, Bridgnorth, Kingswinford, Birmingham, Smethwick, Bilston, Lichfield.
CSCS for all operatives is essential. All invoices will be subject to CIS deductions.
This is much more involved and time consuming that standard window cleaning and so only those with proven experience will be considered. You will know that quality is everything but budgets are tight.
If you have a proven track record in this type of work email me with as much detail as you can, previous sites, previous customers, rough guide on price (2, 3, 4, 5, 6 bedroom house) and 2 bed apartments upto 4 storey. Any questions to the same email.
customerservices@idproclean.co.uk
If you look like you fit the bill then I'll be back in touch.
Thanks for looking
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We do a lot of this same type if work, your a little too far south for us though.
Just a quick point, any external cleaning should NOT be subject to CIS deductions.
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We do a lot of this same type if work, your a little too far south for us though.
Just a quick point, any external cleaning should NOT be subject to CIS deductions.
This would be up for discussion with those interested. In principle you are correct, but as the external cleaning falls within our wider scope of contract all invoices submitted by us fall within CIS and thus invoices to us are preferred to be the same.
As said, up for discussion with those interested.
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CIS for window cleaning. ? sounds like a load of rigmarole !
Those who might be intrested may be put off!
End of the day its easier to go door knocking for a few hours N pick up more
Clean value then the tight budget offers what you may have in your Favor is
Prompt payment after invoice.
You might have more luck finding someone without this CIS lark
I don't know anyone who has one for window cleaning
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Im in those areas hey i even live in bilston lol but what put me off straight away was
"Budget is tight " so for that reason im out !
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Im in those areas hey i even live in bilston lol but what put me off straight away was
"Budget is tight " so for that reason im out !
This is the problem you may be faced with too! when your subbies most likly earn more on the domestic round then you might be offering!
Anyone who has a van,insurance,tools is already earning
So all offers I would imagine need to be easy going, prompt payment and worthwhile or you might find it hard to gain intrest!
Your add seems like the ones on direct gov or the job center those are more demanding cui windys just hit a council estate and easily get overbooked for a nights knocking
Good luck with add thou!
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Im in those areas hey i even live in bilston lol but what put me off straight away was
"Budget is tight " so for that reason im out !
This is the problem you may be faced with too! when your subbies most likly earn more on the domestic round then you might be offering!
Anyone who has a van,insurance,tools is already earning
So all offers I would imagine need to be easy going, prompt payment and worthwhile or you might find it hard to gain intrest!
Your add seems like the ones on direct gov or the job center those are more demanding cui windys just hit a council estate and easily get overbooked for a nights knocking
Good luck with add thou!
Yeah what he said !!!
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CIS is just tax taken off your payment :'(
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CIS is just tax taken off your payment :'(
Extra work to administer.
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CIS is just tax taken off your payment :'(
But as a self employed you are supposed to handle this
If its ready taxed it won't make sence will it how do they know how to tax it
20%40% how do they know which tax bracket you are in
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CIS is just tax taken off your payment :'(
But as a self employed you are supposed to handle this
If its ready taxed it won't make sence will it how do they know how to tax it
20%40% how do they know which tax bracket you are in
Yep, pain in the orris. CIS is aimed at casual workers. It was obvious from the OP that he is looking for people willing to work for peanuts.
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
They do. Op will be getting deducted 20% on his invoices to the builder (or cleaning firm if its already subbed) so will therefore have to pass it on if he subs out a portion of the work.
We do a lot of this type of work, build clean, re-clean, sparkle clean. Our invoices are not subject to CIS deductions as exterior cleaning is not subject to the scheme.
As a small company the scheme is a major pain the rear, and reclaiming any overpayments or adjustments is near impossible. I've a friend who is owed over £13k in overpayments for nearly 3 years. No thanks.
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
They do. Op will be getting deducted 20% on his invoices to the builder (or cleaning firm if its already subbed) so will therefore have to pass it on if he subs out a portion of the work.
We do a lot of this type of work, build clean, re-clean, sparkle clean. Our invoices are not subject to CIS deductions as exterior cleaning is not subject to the scheme.
As a small company the scheme is a major pain the rear, and reclaiming any overpayments or adjustments is near impossible. I've a friend who is owed over £13k in overpayments for nearly 3 years. No thanks.
is it just windows you do??
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
They do. Op will be getting deducted 20% on his invoices to the builder (or cleaning firm if its already subbed) so will therefore have to pass it on if he subs out a portion of the work.
We do a lot of this type of work, build clean, re-clean, sparkle clean. Our invoices are not subject to CIS deductions as exterior cleaning is not subject to the scheme.
As a small company the scheme is a major pain the rear, and reclaiming any overpayments or adjustments is near impossible. I've a friend who is owed over £13k in overpayments for nearly 3 years. No thanks.
is it just windows you do??
Just windows yes but in reality it's windows/frames/fascias/soffitts/door surrounds. We sub from a firm who does the interior build clean from initial build clean to handover.
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not in my area but once i read "budget is tight" id want cash up front to prove they are honest
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Ha,
Only on CIU,
This site is designed for window cleaners to interact on ideas, methods and to try and develop work for each other.
I've been in contact with the guy who posted this on here and he seems a genuine enough bloke to me who is developing his business and taking on more work which is the way forward.
Sometimes I'm amazed with what I read on here,
It is friday night though so I suppose people can be forgiven.
Dean.
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deeeegee
do you do builders cleans then ?
what area are you ?
Thanks
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Ha,
Only on CIU,
This site is designed for window cleaners to interact on ideas, methods and to try and develop work for each other.
I've been in contact with the guy who posted this on here and he seems a genuine enough bloke to me who is developing his business and taking on more work which is the way forward.
Sometimes I'm amazed with what I read on here,
It is friday night though so I suppose people can be forgiven.
Dean.
To be fair, it isn't a very well worded post Dean.
It comes across as aggressive (IMO) and the sort of person who you wouldn't want to work for. Minimal pricing and maximum effort, money being the ONLY criteria.
Fair enough if Grif isn't like that at all, just how it comes across.
It is difficult to portray true intent in text sometimes.
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Darren,
just emailed you
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To be fair, it isn't a very well worded post Dean.
It comes across as aggressive (IMO) and the sort of person who you wouldn't want to work for. Minimal pricing and maximum effort, money being the ONLY criteria.
Fair enough if Grif isn't like that at all, just how it comes across.
It is difficult to portray true intent in text sometimes.
I agree with you. I've done work like this; not well priced, hard graft and a three month wait to get paid.
It's a lot of hassle for what's effectively a 'one off' too.
We also had to wear hard hats and high vis vests, which wasn't a problem, but Wor Lass didn't like it! ;D
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You get a bit of that though Darren,
I know what you mean though but it is a harsh reality in the real world.
A lot of us on here are protected from the real world and become unattached from reality and find ourselves lucky enough to rip apart posts that a put up on her.
The building trade has gone tits up over the last few years and the original poster was only putting a few key words in his opening post where people who understand what he means will get in touch with him.
Anyway,
Its friday night, I'm working tomorrow so can't drink any where near what I'd like to drink so I'm off to bed.
Peace and love to all.
Dean.
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Dean. I know, just being the yang to your ying ;D
Archer-not got it bud...
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Darren
email e your number and I will give u a quick ring if u want
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Just got into bed bud, Mrs snoring next to me!
If you could give me a quick bell tomorrow afternoon though I'd appreciate it.
Mobile is on my website.
Thank you.
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
They do. Op will be getting deducted 20% on his invoices to the builder (or cleaning firm if its already subbed) so will therefore have to pass it on if he subs out a portion of the work.
We do a lot of this type of work, build clean, re-clean, sparkle clean. Our invoices are not subject to CIS deductions as exterior cleaning is not subject to the scheme.
As a small company the scheme is a major pain the rear, and reclaiming any overpayments or adjustments is near impossible. I've a friend who is owed over £13k in overpayments for nearly 3 years. No thanks.
If you're subbing off a window cleaner or window cleaning company who is subbing off a building contractor, if that makes sense, then there should be no deductions.
The CIS thing only applies to sub contractors to a building contractor and is worked out on the price quoted or the price charged minus materials.
The way I read the original posting is that it is a window cleaner or window cleaning company who is subbing out and not a building contractor and therefore, there should not be any deductions unless I've got it wrong in how I read the original posting.
Also, I hate to say it but the words 'budgets are tight', does to me imply low payment for work done or loads of work for little reward. Sorry, but that's how I think it reads.
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You get a bit of that though Darren,
I know what you mean though but it is a harsh reality in the real world.
A lot of us on here are protected from the real world and become unattached from reality and find ourselves lucky enough to rip apart posts that a put up on her.
The building trade has gone tits up over the last few years and the original poster was only putting a few key words in his opening post where people who understand what he means will get in touch with him.
Anyway,
Its friday night, I'm working tomorrow so can't drink any where near what I'd like to drink so I'm off to bed.
Peace and love to all.
Dean.
I don't think there is much more "real world" than window cleaning. It is hard work, takes time to get rewards and you are looked down on. The upside is that if you have persistence and a little intelligence it can be very well paid.
I picked up a job from a window cleaning company that went bust last week. That can really only happen in one way. Over reliance on low margin, slow paying, high risk commercial work that leads them to think they have a basis for buying more vans and taking on more staff. Precisely the type on offer here.
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I thought CIS deductions only apply when subbing off a building contractor.
They do. Op will be getting deducted 20% on his invoices to the builder (or cleaning firm if its already subbed) so will therefore have to pass it on if he subs out a portion of the work.
We do a lot of this type of work, build clean, re-clean, sparkle clean. Our invoices are not subject to CIS deductions as exterior cleaning is not subject to the scheme.
As a small company the scheme is a major pain the rear, and reclaiming any overpayments or adjustments is near impossible. I've a friend who is owed over £13k in overpayments for nearly 3 years. No thanks.
If you're subbing off a window cleaner or window cleaning company who is subbing off a building contractor, if that makes sense, then there should be no deductions.
The CIS thing only applies to sub contractors to a building contractor and is worked out on the price quoted or the price charged minus materials.
The way I read the original posting is that it is a window cleaner or window cleaning company who is subbing out and not a building contractor and therefore, there should not be any deductions unless I've got it wrong in how I read the original posting.
Also, I hate to say it but the words 'budgets are tight', does to me imply low payment for work done or loads of work for little reward. Sorry, but that's how I think it reads.
Fair enough Ross, I thought the deductions would have to be passed on.
Like I said, it's not an issue for me because this type of work, for me, does fall into the CIS scheme anyway.
Archer, yes we do plenty of build cleans, I work the same area as you.
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Ha,
Only on CIU,
This site is designed for window cleaners to interact on ideas, methods and to try and develop work for each other.
I've been in contact with the guy who posted this on here and he seems a genuine enough bloke to me who is developing his business and taking on more work which is the way forward.
Sometimes I'm amazed with what I read on here,
It is friday night though so I suppose people can be forgiven.
Dean.
I don't think anybody has said anything particularly harsh in this thread Dean?
You'll always get the odd one who responds negatively regardless but I think this time, considering the tone of the OP, the replies have been quite fair.
And to those saying they wouldn't consider working for anybody who says 'budget is tight', what's he supposed to say?? He's protecting his own margins, he's hardly going to say 'money is no object as long as the work is to a high standard' is he.
The reality with this type of work is, it's physically demanding and time consuming, that will rule out most small WC companies.
I love it though, infact we have added 2 more sites of 400 houses total just last month. With an average house being worth between £120 and £150 over the duration of the building process, it can be a nice little earner. Also, if we get a big freeze this winter like 3 years ago it won't effect us because we'll have plenty of inside build cleans to crack on with.
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i have 25 yrs experience of builders cleans generally the windows are not hard just time consuming and you would not be earning you usual window cleaning hourly rate .
As for the tax deduction these are taken off any tax you owe hmrc any any over payments refunded .
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Deeeegee,
Could do with meeting up at some point then, as its nice to know that you do builders cleans etc, as there are times when I am asked and could do with someone to sub out to if your interested
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Why do a lot of people shy away from build cleans ? There is good money to made from them.
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Why do a lot of people shy away from build cleans ? There is good money to made from them.
Because for a self employed wc there is more money to be made from his regular work if he has enough.
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Diamond standard ltd
I keep away from builders cleans normally because of the time it takes, as my regular work is what I am more interested in.
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Diamond standard ltd
I keep away from builders cleans normally because of the time it takes, as my regular work is what I am more interested in.
thanks for reply nice to hear people's views
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Thanks to everyone that has been in touch so far.
I have to admit to being a bit surprised by the amount of negative replies. If not interested no problem, but there are a few posters that seemed to miss the point.
This was only aimed at people with experience of this type of work and so they will understand the original wording.
"Budgets are tight" was just me being honest, not trying to trick anyone into anything. It is true that CIS doesn't generally apply to extrenal cleaning but as part of any deal I would most likely want to pass this on. This would be strictly above board and exactly how I have worked with subbies in the past.
One poster posted that a guy he knows is waiting for £13000 refund after three years. I wonder how this can be, what about two years ago, and last year? Did he suddenly cease trading and if so how did he get on four years ago ???
Don't get me wrong, CIS can be a bit of a pain but it's not the end of the world and as long as your records are in order you'll get you refund by August at the latest (plus interest).
Payment terms will be set out from the outset and most of our Customers settle on time, any problems with us getting paid would certainly never be passed on.
Anyway, thanks again for those that have been in touch. I'll be back in touch over the next couple of days to see whether this is realistic or impossible.
Griffus
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I wasn't lieing about my friends troubles regarding his £13k's worth of overpayments. He has a roofing company, not WC, so it's not really relevant and with everything posted on the Internet it's completely upto you whether you believe me or not. I dont know the full details just that hes been waiting (and negotiating) for over 3 years to reclaim his overpayments. I was just pointing out that CIS IS a nightmare and is not something I'd want to get involved in if possible, particularly if the scope of the works falls outside of the scheme.
Good luck with your sites anyway!
:D
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Why do a lot of people shy away from build cleans ? There is good money to made from them.
Although good money can be earned from them, I've aways found that my hourly rate is less than when I do maintenance cleans. But when I've tried to price to compensate for that, I never get the work. Add to that, they are much harder graft than maintenance cleans and usually a one off. When building companies are involved, there is often a long wait for payment. Most difficult to do cleans are followed by much easier maintenance cleans. Builders cleans generally are not.
The last builders clean I did was last year on a church. Even though it was relatively easy as far as uilders cleans go, I decided that I would not be doing any more.