Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: formb on August 16, 2013, 09:37:36 am

Title: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 16, 2013, 09:37:36 am
Decided to take the plunge and go for new 'everyday' poles. We have been using Brodex HA25s. I have no problem with these, they have served us well over the last few years.

We have long poles for the occasional high stuff so I am looking for advice on what poles are best suited to everyday residential work.

Points to consider:

 

I realise most of the replies will be for Gardiners poles so, what's the difference between a CLX and a CLX-II? Has anyone tested one to destruction? How long are they likely to last in the hands of an 'exuberant' employee? Are the SLX poles worth the extra money? Do they require alot of maintenance?

I would also appreciate reviews/feedback on other poles. I will be buying 2 different poles for a months trial before fully committing so your experiences of any types of pole is much appreciated.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on August 16, 2013, 11:47:53 am
Worth considering the Facelift Phoenix poles. I think they cost a bit more but IMO the clamps are better - more user friendly thus quicker.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 16, 2013, 12:06:45 pm
Decided to take the plunge and go for new 'everyday' poles. We have been using Brodex HA25s. I have no problem with these, they have served us well over the last few years.

We have long poles for the occasional high stuff so I am looking for advice on what poles are best suited to everyday residential work.

Points to consider:

  • Value for money is important, I will need quite a few poles
  • Durability is key, the poles are likely to get a fair amount of abuse
  • Weight is not really important, not one of our lads has ever had any complaints about the HA25s
 

I realise most of the replies will be for Gardiners poles so, what's the difference between a CLX and a CLX-II? Has anyone tested one to destruction? How long are they likely to last in the hands of an 'exuberant' employee? Are the SLX poles worth the extra money? Do they require alot of maintenance?

I would also appreciate reviews/feedback on other poles. I will be buying 2 different poles for a months trial before fully committing so your experiences of any types of pole is much appreciated.

Looking at your post I think the choice is an easy one for you:

Value - Brodex aluminium poles are very cheap.
Durability - Aluminium has a much harder surface than carbon - especially with employee abuse. Brodex aluminium again.
Weight - You say that it is not important being light - Brodex aluminium again fits this bill as it is relatively heavy.

With your criteria aluminium would be the pole material of choice - Brodex fits the bill.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Michael Peterson on August 16, 2013, 02:22:26 pm
yeah as above, for staff who already use the metal they are bomb proof, so get these, with the left over money you can buy yourself an nice extreme/ slx then you will see what its all about ;-)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: robbo333 on August 16, 2013, 05:41:04 pm
Lighter poles mean you can work quicker and more effectively. I'd work out the cost of good pole and how much extra work in a month your guys could do with a more effective tool. If they abuse their equipment then they need a bit of training (there is no reason whatsoever to abuse a pole). Personally, I'd buy some half decent carbon poles, put the guys on a bonus (now you've given them better tools to do the job) and watch them pay for themselves in no time. Everyone wins! I use and SLX 22 and  looking forward to having the dosh for an extreme 25.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dazmond on August 16, 2013, 06:22:52 pm
buy a few SLX 25 s.they are robust but very light compared with brodex poles and your workers will feel the benefit.

if your still on the tools yourself then id recommend a 25 EXTREME for yourself as their the most rigid, lightest poles on the planet.

a new SLX II will outlast a CLX pole easily.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on August 16, 2013, 06:39:51 pm
If you want your employees to maximise their earnings then I'd say adjust your criteria.  The SLX is probably the best starting point, light, rigid and easy to use, great clamps. The CLX is more of a budget pole.  Both poles are very durable unless your staff are very clumsy.  If they are likely to break a tool that other window cleaners will make last for years then I'd consider changing your staff.

Simon.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: ben M on August 16, 2013, 06:59:20 pm
Decided to take the plunge and go for new 'everyday' poles. We have been using Brodex HA25s. I have no problem with these, they have served us well over the last few years.

We have long poles for the occasional high stuff so I am looking for advice on what poles are best suited to everyday residential work.

Points to consider:

  • Value for money is important, I will need quite a few poles
  • Durability is key, the poles are likely to get a fair amount of abuse
  • Weight is not really important, not one of our lads has ever had any complaints about the HA25s
 

I realise most of the replies will be for Gardiners poles so, what's the difference between a CLX and a CLX-II? Has anyone tested one to destruction? How long are they likely to last in the hands of an 'exuberant' employee? Are the SLX poles worth the extra money? Do they require alot of maintenance?

I would also appreciate reviews/feedback on other poles. I will be buying 2 different poles for a months trial before fully committing so your experiences of any types of pole is much appreciated.

Looking at your post I think the choice is an easy one for you:

Value - Brodex aluminium poles are very cheap.
Durability - Aluminium has a much harder surface than carbon - especially with employee abuse. Brodex aluminium again.
Weight - You say that it is not important being light - Brodex aluminium again fits this bill as it is relatively heavy.

With your criteria aluminium would be the pole material of choice - Brodex fits the bill.

alex, what about clx? don't recommend brodex please,I am sure they deserve better  ;)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: PoleKing on August 16, 2013, 07:04:41 pm
I think Alex has said it all.
The man (as well as most if us) knows his poles are the best, but he has suggested another brand.
Go Brodex and know that they'll last forever and a day.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 16, 2013, 08:27:05 pm
Quote from: Alex Gardiner
Brodex fits the bill.

What are you on commission or something?

We have been using Brodex for a few years now. Prices for carbon fibre / composite poles have fallen dramatically in that time. I think it would be daft not to have a look at what poles are on the market now. When we decided to go with Brodex poles I don't even think the hybrid/composite poles had been invented, I hadn't heard of them anyway.

Your honesty is appreciated. However. We will be trying a couple of alternative poles for a month or so. With there being so many different poles on the market I would value the opinion of you, and others, on which poles are worth looking at and which are best avoided.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 16, 2013, 08:33:34 pm
Quote from: dd
Worth considering the Facelift Phoenix poles. I think they cost a bit more but IMO the clamps are better - more user friendly thus quicker.

Which ones do you have? I have a big facelift carbon fibre pole, not sure what kind it is. I don't think they sell them any more, I bought it around 5-6 years ago, it cost me a small fortune. We rarely use it, just for high work. It is a quality pole though.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 16, 2013, 08:46:28 pm
Quote from: SherwoodCleaningSe
If you want your employees to maximise their earnings then I'd say adjust your criteria.  The SLX is probably the best starting point, light, rigid and easy to use, great clamps. The CLX is more of a budget pole.  Both poles are very durable unless your staff are very clumsy.  If they are likely to break a tool that other window cleaners will make last for years then I'd consider changing your staff.

Simon.

I wouldn't say my employees are particularly clumsy or abusive towards the kit. It is a fact of life that employees will never take as much care of your equipment as you do.

While the Brodex poles are hard wearing I find the clamps unreliable and the collapsed length isn't the best, 2 things that have developed in the market since I last looked into buying poles.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: ascjim on August 16, 2013, 09:12:38 pm
lighter poles = faster workers = ££££ :)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Paul Coleman on August 17, 2013, 08:57:59 am
Although durability is important, I would factor my body into the durability equation.
Lighter pole probably equals longer lasting body.  Mind you, if it's employees, I suppose it becomes somebody else's problem.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Perfect Windows on August 17, 2013, 09:55:17 am
Your honesty is appreciated. However. We will be trying a couple of alternative poles for a month or so. With there being so many different poles on the market I would value the opinion of you, and others, on which poles are worth looking at and which are best avoided.

As ever, I'd suggest a mathematical approach.

Buy an SLX. Move it at random around your guys (I mean "random" not just rotate amongst them) and have a look at any effect it has on their daily earnings.

My perception is that lack of weight/extra stiffness = one more clean in a day but I have nothing formally to back that up.  You have the joy of being able to do the experiment.  I suspect that they might pay for themselves but I can't be certain.

Then, if the trial doesn't work, flog it on ebay -  see current price at: http://tinyurl.com/n3w56nc . Cheap experiment even if it results in buying Brodex again.

Vin
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 17, 2013, 10:32:14 am
Quote from: Perfect Windows
As ever, I'd suggest a mathematical approach.

Buy an SLX. Move it at random around your guys (I mean "random" not just rotate amongst them) and have a look at any effect it has on their daily earnings.

My perception is that lack of weight/extra stiffness = one more clean in a day but I have nothing formally to back that up.  You have the joy of being able to do the experiment.  I suspect that they might pay for themselves but I can't be certain.

Then, if the trial doesn't work, flog it on ebay -  see current price at: http://tinyurl.com/n3w56nc . Cheap experiment even if it results in buying Brodex again.

Vin

That is pretty much the idea. On the point of productivity we have a few large jobs where this can be tested quite accurately, although when considering weight I think that prolonged usage may be more pertinent than one off results.

Do you have an SLX II?? If so what size / brush / neck would you recommend for an everyday pole? I am leaning towards trying an SLX-22  and a Phoenix X 18. They appear to be around the same length and similarly priced although it is difficult to compare as both have options on brushes etc and I see the facelift comes without any brush head whatsoever, which is handy.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 17, 2013, 10:35:06 am
Then, if the trial doesn't work, flog it on ebay -  see current price at: http://tinyurl.com/n3w56nc .

Is that you?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 17, 2013, 11:51:45 am
That is pretty much the idea. On the point of productivity we have a few large jobs where this can be tested quite accurately, although when considering weight I think that prolonged usage may be more pertinent than one off results.

Do you have an SLX II?? If so what size / brush / neck would you recommend for an everyday pole? I am leaning towards trying an SLX-22  and a Phoenix X 18. They appear to be around the same length and similarly priced although it is difficult to compare as both have options on brushes etc and I see the facelift comes without any brush head whatsoever, which is handy.

For reference the SLX-22 is about 4ft longer (extended) than the Phoenix18 as the names would suggest. If you want something the same length as the SLX-22 you would need to look at the Phoenix22.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dazmond on August 17, 2013, 12:04:01 pm
id say go for the 25 ft SLX then you can be sure you ll reach most 3 storey work and windows over large extensions/flat roofs as well as all the other lower windows.the closed length is shorter than a brodex 25 and a lot lighter with superior clamps.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 17, 2013, 04:50:11 pm
Quote from: Alex Gardiner
For reference the SLX-22 is about 4ft longer (extended) than the Phoenix18 as the names would suggest. If you want something the same length as the SLX-22 you would need to look at the Phoenix22.

Seems obvious. What had me confused was facelift have the 18 listed as "reach 22ft" and Gardiners have the 22 listed as "extended length 6.5m" (or 21.32ft). I guess extended length and "reach" are not the same thing.

This does seem to make the SLX-22 a good bit cheaper, like for like.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on August 17, 2013, 05:08:43 pm
Quote from: dd
Worth considering the Facelift Phoenix poles. I think they cost a bit more but IMO the clamps are better - more user friendly thus quicker.

Which ones do you have? I have a big facelift carbon fibre pole, not sure what kind it is. I don't think they sell them any more, I bought it around 5-6 years ago, it cost me a small fortune. We rarely use it, just for high work. It is a quality pole though.
I have the slx 25 which is a great all round pole but whilst the new clamps are better I still think they are the weak point of the pole.

The facelift Phoenix range come in fibreglass, composite and full carbon. I do not currently own one but have seen one and to me the clamps look very good. Richard Clues (RC Property) has had the full carbon Phoenix a good while now and rates it and generally the reviews are very good for the Phoenix.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on August 18, 2013, 06:49:17 am
i would trial a carbon/gf mix phoenix the clamps are quicker than slx  . i own both slx and phoenix  the latter being my choice .
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 18, 2013, 09:58:47 am
What about Ionics? Anyone use their poles?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: prestigeclean on August 18, 2013, 03:55:43 pm
you might want to wait i saw on the facelift site that they are bringing out a new pole called the renegade with the emphasis on durability , and the clamps they use are far superior to anything else on the market in my opinion regards alan
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: windowswashed on August 18, 2013, 04:00:25 pm
Facelift poles are really good poles for durability and rigidity. Made of thicker carbon wall than gardiners, slightly heavier, but not that noticeable and will certainly take more abuse if you are letting your employees use them.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: PoleKing on August 18, 2013, 08:06:45 pm
What about Ionics? Anyone use their poles?

I'm all ionic ATM.
Bought SLXII's and Extreme on Friday but not used them yet.
I really like the Ionic poles but am giving the Gardiners a shot after the reviews on here.
Should have Swift 45' and Ergolite 72' for sale next week if anyone's interested...
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 19, 2013, 09:55:03 am
So...


I have ordered a Pheonix pro 22 and an SLX-22.

The new Facelift pole will be aluminium apparently.....
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: DG Cleaning on August 19, 2013, 01:48:25 pm
Apparently the full carbon Facelift has a fibreglass bottom section so I wouldn't compare it with another full carbon pole. :D
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 19, 2013, 02:14:13 pm
Quote from: DG Cleaning
Apparently the full carbon Facelift has a fibreglass bottom section so I wouldn't compare it with another full carbon pole. :D

The Facelift pole I ordered isn't carbon it's composite. I went for that one because it is in a similar price bracket, the SLX full carbon being slightly more expensive.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on August 19, 2013, 06:49:33 pm
Apparently the full carbon Facelift has a fibreglass bottom section so I wouldn't compare it with another full carbon pole. :D
That is to insulate from electric shock from overhead power cables. Seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: PoleKing on August 19, 2013, 10:14:51 pm
Apparently the full carbon Facelift has a fibreglass bottom section so I wouldn't compare it with another full carbon pole. :D
That is to insulate from electric shock from overhead power cables. Seems reasonable to me.

It does, but upto 800,000 volts up there on some pylons.
I don't think 2mm of fibreglass is gonna save anyone.
Especially if its wet.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on August 20, 2013, 07:18:26 am
You are not very likely to catch a pylon cable (not with a 25 ft pole anyway). Ionics carbon poles also have a fibre glass base section.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: PoleKing on August 20, 2013, 07:45:49 am
You are not very likely to catch a pylon cable (not with a 25 ft pole anyway). Ionics carbon poles also have a fibre glass base section.

That's why I don't get insulating them. 20 or 30 feet isn't high enough to catch anything electrical. A pole long enough to catch a pylon or something, there's so much current up there, it'd just travel down the pole and arc to the user.
Unless someone more cleverer than what I is knows betterer
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on August 20, 2013, 07:52:22 am
I love my gardiner poles, but they are not as durable as Brodex. Brodex customer service as we know is naff, but their aluminium poles are employee-proof. I bought a load of gardiner poles over the last 12 months and had resineck goosenecks break this week and John guest fittings I find let the hose out from time to time. It never happened with the Brodex stuff.

Which do I think is a superior design pole? Gardiner. Which do I think is more durable? Brodex.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: roundbuilder on August 20, 2013, 08:26:40 am
what about the unger nlite carbon pole? Anyone tried them?? They look good.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 20, 2013, 08:30:35 am
I love my gardiner poles, but they are not as durable as Brodex. Brodex customer service as we know is naff, but their aluminium poles are employee-proof. I bought a load of gardiner poles over the last 12 months and had resineck goosenecks break this week and John guest fittings I find let the hose out from time to time. It never happened with the Brodex stuff.

Which do I think is a superior design pole? Gardiner. Which do I think is more durable? Brodex.

Hi Steve

Was this doing Solar panels or standard window cleaning?

Looking at the pictures etc of your work that you have sent in the past, solar panel work on the scale you are doing does put a lot of extra strain on to the resi-neck.

I am thinking for solar panel farm cleaning I am going to have to come up with a tougher solution at exactly the right angle as discussed previously with you.

If you find that the hose is not staying put under all situations in the John Guest fittings then these little barbs adapters will cure it - http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/John-Guest-8mm-stem-to-6mm-Barb-PM250806E.html

Do you also use the Brodex poles on your solar farm work?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: andyM on August 20, 2013, 08:35:11 am
I've had a resi-neck break from just doing window/conservatory cleaning.
Never had it happen with one of the bog standard threaded plastic adjustable necks i've used in the past.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 20, 2013, 08:36:59 am
You are not very likely to catch a pylon cable (not with a 25 ft pole anyway). Ionics carbon poles also have a fibre glass base section.

That's why I don't get insulating them. 20 or 30 feet isn't high enough to catch anything electrical. A pole long enough to catch a pylon or something, there's so much current up there, it'd just travel down the pole and arc to the user.
Unless someone more cleverer than what I is knows betterer

We insulate the handle section of our carbon poles (insulated layer on top of carbon) to protect the user from accidental shock from domestic power lines. Even 240v or 410v can kill so it is vital to protect against it.

We have had at least two users with SLX 18 poles who have blown up the top of their pole by catching them on over head lines. They both were fine as the insulated handle did its job.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 20, 2013, 08:40:53 am
I've had a resi-neck break from just doing window/conservatory cleaning.
Never had it happen with one of the bog standard threaded plastic adjustable necks i've used in the past.

Did we replace this for you?

If so has the replacement broken or is it fine?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: andyM on August 20, 2013, 08:51:37 am
Hi Alex, I didn't contact you about it.
To be honest I have a few of them and I couldn't rightly remember if the one that broke was over a year old (as the oldest one is/was) or if it were one of the newer ones.
So I gave it the benefit of the doubt, because if it was more than a year old I think it has probably given me fair use anyway.
Although I would say that to me there does seem to be a little more flex in them when cleaning conservatory roof panels than the older style plastic necks.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 20, 2013, 08:57:31 am
Hi Alex, I didn't contact you about it.
To be honest I have a few of them and I couldn't rightly remember if the one that broke was over a year old (as the oldest one is/was) or if it were one of the newer ones.
So I gave it the benefit of the doubt, because if it was more than a year old I think it has probably given me fair use anyway.
Although I would say that to me there does seem to be a little more flex in them when cleaning conservatory roof panels than the older style plastic necks.

Shame you didn't know how old it was - we could have replaced under warranty.

We did have some about 1 year ago that had a few more than usual breaks - if they were going to break they usually did within the first 2 months of use - of course these were replaced for clients. Batches since have had very few incidents.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on August 20, 2013, 04:25:01 pm
I'm still on the same resi-neck swivel since the day they came out, it gets used every day for every job too!! I got 2 at the time & never had to use the second one yet.

Must be 2 years I would think now?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: DG Cleaning on August 20, 2013, 05:29:54 pm
Apparently the full carbon Facelift has a fibreglass bottom section so I wouldn't compare it with another full carbon pole. :D
That is to insulate from electric shock from overhead power cables. Seems reasonable to me.

The point I'm making is Facelift have saved money making the bottom section fibreglass so why are they the same price or more than full carbon poles?
They could have insulated a carbon bottom section same as Gardiners but chose not to to save money imo.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Stephen Fox on August 20, 2013, 05:42:13 pm
The point I'm making is Facelift have saved money making the bottom section fibreglass so why are they the same price or more than full carbon poles?
They could have insulated a carbon bottom section same as Gardiners but chose not to to save money imo.

DG,

Not the case at all. Not all Carbon is the same - quality, amount, etc. There is a reason why some Carbon Facelift poles have been around longer (8 - 10 years in some cases) than any other make.

If you do a like for like comparison you will see the difference (rigidity, strength, etc)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 21, 2013, 10:20:52 am
Got my Pheonix (Phoenix?) 22 pro  :)

Just waiting on my SLX-22 now....
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on August 21, 2013, 06:12:00 pm
Please give a review when you have had a chance to compare the two poles.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 21, 2013, 09:30:45 pm
Quote from: dd
Please give a review when you have had a chance to compare the two poles.

Will do. Phoenix looks good, disappointed not to have my SLX  yet. A courier issue, TNT are pretty useless round here.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on August 21, 2013, 10:45:17 pm
I love my gardiner poles, but they are not as durable as Brodex. Brodex customer service as we know is naff, but their aluminium poles are employee-proof. I bought a load of gardiner poles over the last 12 months and had resineck goosenecks break this week and John guest fittings I find let the hose out from time to time. It never happened with the Brodex stuff.

Which do I think is a superior design pole? Gardiner. Which do I think is more durable? Brodex.

Hi Steve

Was this doing Solar panels or standard window cleaning?

Looking at the pictures etc of your work that you have sent in the past, solar panel work on the scale you are doing does put a lot of extra strain on to the resi-neck.

I am thinking for solar panel farm cleaning I am going to have to come up with a tougher solution at exactly the right angle as discussed previously with you.

If you find that the hose is not staying put under all situations in the John Guest fittings then these little barbs adapters will cure it - http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/John-Guest-8mm-stem-to-6mm-Barb-PM250806E.html

Do you also use the Brodex poles on your solar farm work?
Hi Alex. We have had the goosenecks break on the solar work as we have discussed and i was more than happy with the customer service. But we have also had resinecks go on the solar work and had one go this week on windows. The teeth seemed to sheer off the rest of the plastic.

I was in St. Austell this morning and did think about swinging by and buying some more gear, but didn't think you took trade 'off the street'.

With the solar work, a tougher solution would be perfect for us, but needs to be a profitable line for you too. I would be interested in seeing your ideas and could even test prototypes on some large scale sites if you wanted us to. You could really hone it and test for durability then.

What I am doing now is factoring in a breakage cost into my solar work. We will expect the necks to break and have plenty with us so that we can replace them at will. It caught me out on the Derby site, but I will be better prepared next time.

I will probably purchase some barbs on my next order, which won't be far away. Hopefully that should sort it. It didn't happen on the Brodex hose because we O -ringed it onto the Y-connector. Your pole hose and fittings seem a little delicate for that.

Will email you about the Brodex poles and solar. :)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: DG Cleaning on August 22, 2013, 08:54:04 am
The point I'm making is Facelift have saved money making the bottom section fibreglass so why are they the same price or more than full carbon poles?
They could have insulated a carbon bottom section same as Gardiners but chose not to to save money imo.

DG,

Not the case at all. Not all Carbon is the same - quality, amount, etc. There is a reason why some Carbon Facelift poles have been around longer (8 - 10 years in some cases) than any other make.

If you do a like for like comparison you will see the difference (rigidity, strength, etc)

How come they aren't very popular then?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 22, 2013, 01:55:33 pm
SLX-22 Finally arrived  :)


Dunno what you've got to do to get a hat in this day and age.  >:(
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on August 22, 2013, 03:56:07 pm
SLX-22 Finally arrived  :)


Dunno what you've got to do to get a hat in this day and age.  >:(

Glad it has arrived - have to love TNT  >:(

To get a hat these days you need to be ordering either an Xtreme or more than 3 poles - You do get a gooseneck and brush in the price though (and hopefully a pen)  :)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 22, 2013, 05:24:36 pm
When the Phoenix and the SLX arrived the general consensus among the lads has been;

"Eh?, are you not getting proper poles, these are toy poles surely?"

Obviously with the late arrival of the SLX no one has had a chance to use it yet but the lad who used the Phoenix is very impressed, I haven't seen him this happy since he got his Land Rover. I am now all but certain that we will be switching poles.

My first impressions are that there is not a whole lot between them. The Gardiners pole certainly fells better manufactured and the clamps seem to be well thought out and well designed. The Phoenix clamps feel more 'natural' although I suppose that is just because they are more similar to clamps I have used in the past.

Tomorrow will be the first day that both poles are to be used, is it sad that I am quite excited? Probably.

Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on August 23, 2013, 05:02:31 pm
The 2 lads using the poles (Cheeko-Phoenix and Polski3-SLX) are split so far on which they prefer.

Polski3 is happy with either but prefers the SLX. Cheeko does not like the SLX as much, mostly due to the brush head (Super-Lite® Radius-Sill Brush Dual-Trim Medium-Mixed Bristles (I think)) perhaps this isn't the best choice for everyday maintenance cleans? I went for that one because our preferred choice had been the Vikan sill brush heads until now, and I wanted to go for the most similar to that.

Polski3 commented that he felt like he had been "cheating". Both are adamant that they wont be using aluminium poles again.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: andyM on August 23, 2013, 05:16:06 pm
The 2 lads using the poles (Cheeko-Phoenix and Polski3-SLX) are split so far on which they prefer.

Polski3 is happy with either but prefers the SLX. Cheeko does not like the SLX as much, mostly due to the brush head (Super-Lite® Radius-Sill Brush Dual-Trim Medium-Mixed Bristles (I think)) perhaps this isn't the best choice for everyday maintenance cleans? I went for that one because our preferred choice had been the Vikan sill brush heads until now, and I wanted to go for the most similar to that.

Polski3 commented that he felt like he had been "cheating". Both are adamant that they wont be using aluminium poles again.

Perhaps now would be a good time to add a few extra jobs on to their work list, me thinks.  ;)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on September 19, 2013, 11:26:19 am
Still stuck in a quandary as far as brush heads go.

What brush heads do you guys use on your Gardiners poles? Has anyone bodged a different make of brush head on your Gardiners pole?

The problem I have is that the SLX seems like the right choice but both Cheeko and Polski 3 prefer the Unger brush head that came with the Pheonix. It has longer bristles and a wider angle of splay. This means that you cover more area of glass with your brush and can work quicker. Also the longer bristles and wider splay mean that there is less chance of the base of the brush coming into contact with window frames etc.

We have tried 2 Gardiners heads:

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586012_Brush_Xtreme_MM_350.jpg)

and

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586076_Sill_Brush_MM_DT_350.jpg)

What do you guys use? Is there one with loner bristles and wider splay? I have watched the very informative video, the only one not mentioned seems to be this one

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586325_Sill_Brush_Black_Dual_350.jpg)

Anyone used it? Reviews?  
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on September 19, 2013, 11:30:11 am
Unger HiFlo that came with the Pheonix

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586609_Unger.jpg)
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Richard iSparkle on September 19, 2013, 12:05:24 pm
Decided to take the plunge and go for new 'everyday' poles. We have been using Brodex HA25s. I have no problem with these, they have served us well over the last few years.

We have long poles for the occasional high stuff so I am looking for advice on what poles are best suited to everyday residential work.

Points to consider:

  • Value for money is important, I will need quite a few poles
  • Durability is key, the poles are likely to get a fair amount of abuse
  • Weight is not really important, not one of our lads has ever had any complaints about the HA25s
 

I realise most of the replies will be for Gardiners poles so, what's the difference between a CLX and a CLX-II? Has anyone tested one to destruction? How long are they likely to last in the hands of an 'exuberant' employee? Are the SLX poles worth the extra money? Do they require alot of maintenance?

I would also appreciate reviews/feedback on other poles. I will be buying 2 different poles for a months trial before fully committing so your experiences of any types of pole is much appreciated.

Looking at your post I think the choice is an easy one for you:

Value - Brodex aluminium poles are very cheap.
Durability - Aluminium has a much harder surface than carbon - especially with employee abuse. Brodex aluminium again.
Weight - You say that it is not important being light - Brodex aluminium again fits this bill as it is relatively heavy.

With your criteria aluminium would be the pole material of choice - Brodex fits the bill.


it seems strange to disagree with alex here...  but i think for performance, value for money, and durability the CLX (either model) is king for me.

our CLX's get very heavy use every day by employees and we never clean them down unless they stick (once of twice a year?).  they get chucked around the back of our van and never wear out.

the only problem (which i could live with) was the clamps coming unstuck after a certain age, but this seams to be much improved or stopped by the new clamps and new glue they're using.

Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: CleanClear on September 19, 2013, 12:11:47 pm
Has anyone bodged a different make of brush head on your Gardiners pole?


You should be able to use this to put your brodex brush on.....
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/resi-neck-quick-release-type-1.html


Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on September 19, 2013, 12:17:23 pm
Of the few Gardiner brushes I have tried my favourite is the sl flocked standard splay. Sill brushes a bit to narrow and I have not tried an extreme because I find it hard to trust a brush with so few bristles.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Alex Gardiner on September 19, 2013, 12:53:23 pm
Still stuck in a quandary as far as brush heads go.

What brush heads do you guys use on your Gardiners poles? Has anyone bodged a different make of brush head on your Gardiners pole?

The problem I have is that the SLX seems like the right choice but both Cheeko and Polski 3 prefer the Unger brush head that came with the Pheonix. It has longer bristles and a wider angle of splay. This means that you cover more area of glass with your brush and can work quicker. Also the longer bristles and wider splay mean that there is less chance of the base of the brush coming into contact with window frames etc.

We have tried 2 Gardiners heads:

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586012_Brush_Xtreme_MM_350.jpg)

and

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586076_Sill_Brush_MM_DT_350.jpg)

What do you guys use? Is there one with loner bristles and wider splay? I have watched the very informative video, the only one not mentioned seems to be this one

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1379586325_Sill_Brush_Black_Dual_350.jpg)

Anyone used it? Reviews?  

Hi Soupy

Looking at what your guys have been used to I would personally recommend either the SuperLite DT Medium-Mixed or a SuperLite DT Flocked.

http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/the-super-lite-brush-dual-trim-medium-mixed-bristles.html

http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/the-super-lite-brush-dual-trim-flocked-standard-splay.html

I think that you would find the black soft Sill brush too soft.

Drop me an email on alex@agardiner.co.uk and I can sort out your guys trying these out.

Of course it is possible to use a variety of brushes with our poles. It usually means changing gooseneck type to the older Resi-Neck style - http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/resi-neck-quick-release-type-1.html
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on September 19, 2013, 03:26:52 pm
Thanks for the replies.

Mr Gardiner - Message sent.

I would rather avoid using the adjustable plastic cranks, I have always found them to be a bit of a weak point on any pole, besides, I like the QuicK-LoQ system. Simple straightforward design.

Quote from: dd
Of the few Gardiner brushes I have tried my favourite is the sl flocked standard splay. Sill brushes a bit to narrow and I have not tried an extreme because I find it hard to trust a brush with so few bristles.

Interestingly my first impression of the Unger head was that it didn't have enough bristles. Also that the plastic twist in jets are crap and hose set up leaves a-lot to be desired. The lads have said they can work faster with it and that they are less likely to knock frames with the base, at the end of the day these points are more important than how it looks and feels.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: richard jagger on September 19, 2013, 06:29:16 pm
I to have had a few resi necks brake on me, the plastic tears from the centre to the section were the brush fastens on so that the brush falls off with the extension still in the brush.This I have solved by fitting a 1" od s/s washer .The bolt and plastic cup,now fit into this washer. This small adjustment in the setup give more support to the neck in  a too and fro movement. It will also stop any tear out of the bolt in the necks was not to tight its more to do with side to side motion during brushing the top of widow frames.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: 8weekly on September 19, 2013, 06:46:13 pm
Did I miss the post where you said which pole your Alexei & Ivan prefered?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on September 19, 2013, 08:53:02 pm
Quote from: 8weekly
Did I miss the post where you said which pole your Alexei & Ivan prefered?

You did not.

Both poles have advantages. The SLX is clearly the better pole, I realise that the Phoenix pro 22 pole is not designed to compete with the SLX, it is Facelift's composite pole. I would really have liked to have tested the Facelift full carbon Phoenix X 22 pole but as it is shipped without a brush head the extra cost pushed it passed my already stretched budget.

Once you've set the SLX up correctly and got used to the side on clamps it is clearly a carefully designed, well built piece of kit. The Phoenix, being more similar to poles we have and have used in the past, was an immediate hit.

After 5 weeks of use both poles show practically no signs of ware although the Pheonix clamps appear to be adjusted all the way in, especially on the top 2 sections.

That's my two cents, as far as the lads are concerned, they are undecided. Both agree that the SLX seems sturdier and is likely to last longer, that's not really concerning them too much though. The brush head is an important point for them, they feel they can go quicker with the larger splay and quicker means more money. Strangely enough the preferred brush head that we got with the Pheonix was actually sent to us by mistake, I had ordered the more expensive sill brush.

We will do another week or so, trying alternative brush heads, then the final decision will be made via Chinese democracy. I know which I would choose but I will rarely use it so the final decision will (mostly) be theirs.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: 8weekly on September 19, 2013, 10:13:16 pm
Quote from: 8weekly
Did I miss the post where you said which pole your Alexei & Ivan prefered?

You did not.

Both poles have advantages. The SLX is clearly the better pole, I realise that the Phoenix pro 22 pole is not designed to compete with the SLX, it is Facelift's composite pole. I would really have liked to have tested the Facelift full carbon pole but as it is shipped without a brush head the extra cost pushed it passed my already stretched budget.

Once you've set the SLX up correctly and got used to the side on clamps it is clearly a carefully designed, well built piece of kit. The Phoenix, being more similar to poles we have and have used in the past, was an immediate hit.

After 5 weeks of use both poles show practically no signs of ware although the Pheonix clamps appear to be adjusted all the way in, especially on the top 2 sections.

That's my two cents, as far as the lads are concerned, they are undecided. Both agree that the SLX seems sturdier and is likely to last longer, that's not really concerning them too much though. The brush head is an important point for them, they feel they can go quicker with the larger splay and quicker means more money. Strangely enough the preferred brush head that we got with the Pheonix was actually sent to us by mistake, I had ordered the more expensive sill brush.

We will do another week or so, trying alternative brush heads, then the final decision will be made via Chinese democracy. I know which I would choose but I will rarely use it so the final decision will (mostly) be theirs.
Interesting. The new clamps onthe Gardiner's poles make a huge difference.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: home6442 on September 19, 2013, 10:46:57 pm
Im not a fan of the new Gardiners clamps the levers can be fiddly and annoying at times and whats this quick loq brush socket all about. I can remove my brush quicker using a threaded socket.
It also has very little adjustment if you need to angle the brush slightly for windows above conservatories.
Talk about fixing something that wasn't broken.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: formb on September 19, 2013, 11:09:30 pm
Quote from: 8weekly
Interesting. The new clamps onthe Gardiner's poles make a huge difference.

Having never used the old Gardiners clamps I will have to take your word on that one. The clamps are very good though, you can see that there has been thought gone into extending the life of the pole.

John - I have seen posts on here from other people who find the clamps fiddly too. After reading the instructions supplied with the pole, I adjusted the clamps as instructed and within an hour the initial fumble factor from pushing the clamp across as opposed up and down as we were used to was gone. After 5 weeks everyday use we have had to make no further adjustments to the clamps.

Your point about adjusting the head for awkward angles is fair although it is not something I have ever done. I think that a wider splay on the brush head would reduce the need to adjust the angle of the head? I always find that with the screw sockets, the point where the head gets tight never seems to be square, really annoys me that.



Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: home6442 on September 19, 2013, 11:35:07 pm
Quote from: 8weekly
Interesting. The new clamps onthe Gardiner's poles make a huge difference.

Having never used the old Gardiners clamps I will have to take your word on that one. The clamps are very good though, you can see that there has been thought gone into extending the life of the pole.

John - I have seen posts on here from other people who find the clamps fiddly too. After reading the instructions supplied with the pole, I adjusted the clamps as instructed and within an hour the initial fumble factor from pushing the clamp across as opposed up and down as we were used to was gone. After 5 weeks everyday use we have had to make no further adjustments to the clamps.

Your point about adjusting the head for awkward angles is fair although it is not something I have ever done. I think that a wider splay on the brush head would reduce the need to adjust the angle of the head? I always find that with the screw sockets, the point where the head gets tight never seems to be square, really annoys me that.




Soupy, I used to over tighten the threads on the screw sockets but since starting to use Gardiners lighter brushes
I find that I don't feel the need to tighten them as much.[ Just a few turns until they grip]
This means if  Im cleaning at an awkward angle I can adjust the brush by lightly pressing it on the lintel above the window
This then adjusts the brush level with the window frame and makes for easier and more accurate rinsing.


Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: home6442 on September 19, 2013, 11:49:08 pm
Soupy,
Thanks for the info on the pole adjustment didn't get any instructions with mine so will
check it out. 
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: dd on September 20, 2013, 05:31:58 pm
Im not a fan of the new Gardiners clamps the levers can be fiddly and annoying at times and whats this quick loq brush socket all about. I can remove my brush quicker using a threaded socket.
It also has very little adjustment if you need to angle the brush slightly for windows above conservatories.
Talk about fixing something that wasn't broken.
I find the quick loc socket brilliant. I don't use it to change the brush but it means that the brush is securely fitted, because using the screw sockets I always found the brush tightened in the wrong place, so to have it square meant it was a bit loose.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Soupy on November 11, 2013, 10:16:51 am
OK, decision made; we went for SLX-IIs

 ;D
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Lee GLS on November 11, 2013, 12:09:35 pm
What happened to you soupy?
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Soupy on November 11, 2013, 01:05:18 pm
I got wound up by the forum - as you do - a few weeks back, and deleted my account.

Having realised the error of my ways I've spent the last 2 weeks trying to register an account.

 ::)roll 
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: PAUL ERITH on November 11, 2013, 04:11:56 pm
OK, decision made; we went for SLX-IIs

 ;D

What brushes did you get unger or gardiners

Paul
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: AuRavelling79 on November 11, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
I got wound up by the forum - as you do - a few weeks back, and deleted my account.

Having realised the error of my ways I've spent the last 2 weeks trying to register an account.

 ::)roll 

Glad you're back ... nice to have a sensible solid poster back on the team; now where's Paul Coleman gone?

BTW SLX22 is my choice too ... mine has been upgraded to the latest clamps and is still going strong after 4 years - it's my second oldest SLX still in use.
Title: Re: New poles? Opinions please.
Post by: Soupy on November 13, 2013, 02:15:55 pm
Quote from: Erith cleaning
Quote from: Me
OK, decision made; we went for SLX-IIs

 ;D

What brushes did you get unger or gardiners

Paul

I got a selection of all (I think) of Gardiner's brush heads. The lads all have a different preference. I also got spare quick loq sockets and we're experimenting with various different brushes.

Incidentally the decision, in the end, came down to price. I decided that the hybrid Pheonix was no match for the SLX so I bought and tested a full carbon one. Great pole but unfortunately the additional cost pushed Facelift out the game.

I also tried an Ionics carbon pole, worst (and most expensive) of the bunch, lasted 1/2 an hour before there were bits bust off it.