Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on August 14, 2013, 10:58:37 pm
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after reading all the posts on 3 grand heaters and gas bottles systems,expense to run them etc.do you think its worth it?
ive been WFP for over 3 years now and happy with a cold system.ive very rarely had a day off during the cold winters as i find i can work with cold wfp down to -2 with minimal hassles.any lower and i wouldnt want to work anyway.
most of my work is maintenance regular window cleaning,the add ons i use virosol if really dirty.
yes ive spent £££££s on extreme poles and the latest aqua-daptors and i think its money well spent.next on my list is a bigger van with a 500L tank in a frame,van wrap etc.
ive not ruled out fitting a hot water system in my next van but im still wondering whether its worth the extra expense and occasional hassle with em.
also hose reels/hoses will all have to be upgraded and new stiffer brushes etc.
i want to keep expenses to a minimum and maximize profit over the next few years so im just wondering whether hot water is just an unnecessary expense?
cheers guys
dazmond
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if you go for a L5 type ..yes because it will always come in handy and for £200.00 ? total cost
£3k.... i would want to be using it all the time if your not into it then stick to the DIY system
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if you go for a L5 type ..yes because it will always come in handy and for £200.00 ? total cost
£3k.... i would want to be using it all the time if your not into it then stick to the DIY system
+1
Looking at changing to the Corwoods one myself
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I feel the same as Dazmond I have no interest in cleaning below -2 so don't need
one for the winter months.
But would think about getting one if it cleaned better and quicker.
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not worth it
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Gas heater ;D use mine every day even when we had heat wave
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Hot water is a great asset from November to feb, working is so much easier with hot in these months. The main benefit is the hoses are great to work with soft and supple and then your not feeling as cold when handling them.
As for faster,better cleaning, yes but marginal. Would I spend 3k on a diesel system no chance gas heater system not yet as there is still a grey area on safety with insurance proper venting etc..
I found that heating with 1 kw water heaters overnight was excellent they cost £7 each
And 8p per hr when in use
In the mornings water was between 25 and 30 degrees lasts all day and serves as anti frost protection for the van
Darran
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Hot water is a great asset from November to feb, working is so much easier with hot in these months. The main benefit is the hoses are great to work with soft and supple and then your not feeling as cold when handling them.
As for faster,better cleaning, yes but marginal. Would I spend 3k on a diesel system no chance gas heater system not yet as there is still a grey area on safety with insurance proper venting etc..
I found that heating with 1 kw water heaters overnight was excellent they cost £7 each
And 8p per hr when in use
In the mornings water was between 25 and 30 degrees lasts all day and serves as anti frost protection for the van
Darran
Could you put a link up for the 1kw water heaters you use please Darran.
And how many of these do you put into your water tank, I presume more than 1 would be needed?
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also i cant believe some window cleaners work with the van doors open as ventilation.surely your leaving yourself open to having stuff nicked out of your van?or even worse your van? ::)roll
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Always work with mine open. I have so many Extreme poles I probably wouldn't notice if one or two went missing.
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Always work with mine open. I have so many Extreme poles I probably wouldn't notice if one or two went missing.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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also i cant believe some window cleaners work with the van doors open as ventilation.surely your leaving yourself open to having stuff nicked out of your van?or even worse your van? ::)roll
not here Daz,i live in a safe area, not in Manchester ;)
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Hot water is a great asset from November to feb, working is so much easier with hot in these months. The main benefit is the hoses are great to work with soft and supple and then your not feeling as cold when handling them.
As for faster,better cleaning, yes but marginal. Would I spend 3k on a diesel system no chance gas heater system not yet as there is still a grey area on safety with insurance proper venting etc..
I found that heating with 1 kw water heaters overnight was excellent they cost £7 each
And 8p per hr when in use
In the mornings water was between 25 and 30 degrees lasts all day and serves as anti frost protection for the van
Darran
Good advice Darran.
What makes sense to me is the smaller heating element of 1kw. This is well within the safety margins of our wall sockets and extension leads. I'm very dubious of using a 3kw element that is used in a geyser off an extension cable and 13 amp plug.
My main consideration in having warm water through the winter are exactly the same as yours, supple hoses and warmer pole. Saying that, our latest minibore hose was much better in the cold last winter than the first batch we bought 7 years ago to replace our garden hose.
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Damone,
It's a no brainier to be honest, it has so many benefits.
Especially for my business I wouldn't be without it
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I haven't worked with hot water so I haven't experienced those benefits. But working with hose that is like coils of wire in winter makes cleaning a little less pleasant.
We need an on demand heater to work with hot water, but for those who have taken the electric heating element route to warm water, I think a more safe way is a lower rated element. They also have the added benefit of using that water in the tank as a big heat source which should keep the van from freezing up on cold nights, probably better than me having a frost controlled heater.
Personally I would prefer the diesel heater route, but many small one man cleaners have done quite well with their gas heaters. How safe some of these installations are is another question, and as Archer is an employer, he has a duty of care with regard to his employees. In his case, more can go wrong with a gas setup IMHO.
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if i was conservatory gutter and fascia cleaning all day
i would defo get a system but 90% of my work is maintenance
cleaning where you could dribble on the windows and they would
be clean.
as for winter i work a couple degrees below freezing with cold
anything really extreme i wouldnt work anyway hot water freezes
as quick as cold ,spending large amounts of money to keep
my hands warm personally for memakes no sense.
going down the cheap and relatively safe route of immersion heaters
does interest me thoghfor occasional use
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Hi,
We have the Purefreedom two man diesel heaters in our vans. You can run two operators at the same time and each man has their own basic temperature controller.
The system looks very professional and is a great selling point. Businesses like the fact that you have a decent set up, it means you are serious about your job. People want to look in the vans and see the kit.
Put it down as a business cost and put your prices up a little to cover it. ;D
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I have hot water and the benefits in speed are a myth.
The reason is that 95% of my work involves maintenance cleans with next to nothing on the glass, even bird poo mostly comes off pretty quick with cold water.
So, those guys who say hot is faster must scrub less on every pane - which I don't believe anyone does. I do the same action whether I'm using hot or cold water.
The advantages for me lie with the supple hose and warm pole. Wait till you crack a pane as I did last year and you won't be so impressed.
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Hot water IS better than cold without any doubt, depending on what you are cleaning,
Without tempting fate we have broken any glass whilst using it, but in cold weather you have to use common sense, we have it at a temperature that stops our hoses freeZing, but no matter how much you use it, it will still freeze on the glass.
We originally bought the hot water for a job we used to do
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IF its 30 degrees you want then just us a 500watt or 1000watt fish tank heater in you tank if it does not reach 30 then add a second one which will get you up to 30 degrees.If its more I would go gas.
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Hot water is quicker for me ???
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A hot water system is something I get interested in from time to time, I imagine in winter even luke water would be so good to work with but for me I keep thinking there would be more things just to go wrong and would it be that much of a benefit?
On top of that its another thing to be fitted in van along with all my other gear which is more weight and less room again, for me I think I look into a water preheater to work over night I see some on here talk about aquarium heaters and the like, if i got a tank full of lukeish warm water id be happy enough and then you could still sell the hot water benefits to the customers.
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I had a go with hot the other day and my god i was impressd, defl the way to go if you have many first cleans or a lot of 8 weekly jobs, it just eats through dirt and grime!.
I havnt got hot yet but after getting new pickup ill be kitting her out with hot!.
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if you just want supple hoses in the winter, go with the immersion method, but this will have no cleaning benefit at all,.
if you want a fully heat controlable method, at low cost, go with the lpg method.
as for the extra space & weight, its minimal.
( refillable gas cylinder is to the side of the tank )
see the pic of my van.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z295/dune19670/007-3.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/dune19670/media/007-3.jpg.html)
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if you just want supple hoses in the winter, go with the immersion method, but this will have no cleaning benefit at all,.
if you want a fully heat controlable method, at low cost, go with the lpg method.
as for the extra space & weight, its minimal.
( refillable gas cylinder is to the side of the tank )
see the pic of my van.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z295/dune19670/007-3.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/dune19670/media/007-3.jpg.html)
Can I ask did the gas effect your insurance at all?
Also is that a little chimney you have going up to go through the roof? If it is how big an opening does it need? Im thinking it might go against when selling the van maybe
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no, the gas didnt affect my insurance.
the flue is about 3 1/2 " and i have a mushroom vent on the roof, when i resell the van i can always leave the mushroom vent there or fit one of the spinning roof vents in its place.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z295/dune19670/005-3.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/dune19670/media/005-3.jpg.html)
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if youre mainly commercial and do a lot of infrequent cleans and one offs then it makes a lot of sense. If you do all the same customers every month then theres no point in my opinion
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Steven, have you got a bypass back to the tank?
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No
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just asking 'cos I had the same reel and had problems with sorting the pressure in my hot hose. Wrecked the reel.
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Dont know if you can see in the first pic, but ive got the spring analogue controller from Gardiners.
This controller allows you to adjust the DE easilly, ( has an external dial ) to stop excessive pressure build up.
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Yes, that's what I fitted in the end. The digital Varistreams are too slow to adjust.
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have tried both the element and gas route for heating the water ,
and have to conclude that the gas way is far more effeicint and present cutomers and new all go ooh , ahh watter is hot ,
over time the cost of running the element is far higher and you have to insulate the tank /s , plus the water looses heat over the time you carry it around .
on demand hot water make it quicker to clean fascias , soffits and conservatory rooves
as with everything , its how you present and sell the goods .
the van is clean and the inside is painted to look professional ,
and why go pay £1000's of pound when you can easily do one yourself for a fraction .
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also i cant believe some window cleaners work with the van doors open as ventilation.surely your leaving yourself open to having stuff nicked out of your van?or even worse your van? ::)roll
ive been carpet cleaning with van doors open for over 10 years with gear sit in the back worth 5 times any pole on the market , and not one thing as gone
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yeah but why take the chance susan?no thanks!! ;D ;D ;D
i bet you get your van nicked tomorrow now after that comment!! ;D ;D ;D
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I imagine carpet cleaning equipment might be a little bulkier than a £1000 extremely light pole?
I get worried someone might remove my tank.
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yeah but why take the chance susan?no thanks!! ;D ;D ;D
i bet you get your van nicked tomorrow now after that comment!! ;D ;D ;D
when you are a truck mounted c.c. you need the side door open at all times to keep things cool gets hot in there
most thieves are to busy looking in the cab for phones and stuff
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I imagine carpet cleaning equipment might be a little bulkier than a £1000 extremely light pole?
I get worried someone might remove my tank.
were going hot wash just looking at someone to fit the heaters and lpg tank , cant be done with this bottle stuff , any good companys do this ??? not going to mess around with it myself rather pay to get the job done right
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Dazmond,
im with you on this one,
I defiantly wouldn't work from the van with it open.
Infact listening to some of the replies I think when I go on holiday for 2 weeks I will leave all the doors open in the house, because SURELY nobody nicks anything these days.
Infact, I might as well put banners and streamers outside the house with a BIG arrow pointing to my house saying HE"S away.
that's how daft it sounds
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These are similar to what I brought. But 1 kw
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRAVEL-HEATER-ELEMENT-WATER-COFFEE-MINI-BOILER-HOT-WATER-IMMERSION-500w-220V-NEW-/400472192783?pt=UK_TravelTickets_Accessories_RL&hash=item5d3e00b70f
They are fully water proof and it sits 1 inch from the bottom of the tank last year I used cheap aquarium pumps/wave makers to circulate water this year I hope to have a unit with the vans inside and I'm going get the pumps to circulate the water
How much hotter do you need than 30 degrees? Hoses were so soft at this and six hours later it was still around 20 degrees
By the way I use 2 as I have twin 500 ltr tanks in the van
While I think diesel is the best/most reliable/ safest way 4k is way to high a price to pay for 'comfort' And I must be unlucky as none of my customers have ever wanted to look in the van in fact they look totally bored about anything to do with window cleaning other than to say ... "Well, as long as they look clean when your finished" they don't give a fig if I had the remains of the Roswell alien spacecraft stashed in the back.
Even at £200 for gas you still have running costs and these are very similar to the immersion elements
Darran
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::)roll well if you think about it there's not an awefull lot to steal from the back of a van. Few trad bits and pieces, spare pole, maybe a guttervac perhaps. Front doors are locked and then there's the bulkhead.
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Dave willis
obviously you don't have much in your vans ::)roll
common sense really to lock a van completely whilst working
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.. "Well, as long as they look clean when your finished" they don't give a fig if I had the remains of the Roswell alien spacecraft stashed in the back.
PMSL ;D ;D
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by the sound of some comments on here, I suppose you turn up in a spacecraft ::)roll
PMSL :-[
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I have hot water and the benefits in speed are a myth.
The reason is that 95% of my work involves maintenance cleans with next to nothing on the glass, even bird poo mostly comes off pretty quick with cold water.
So, those guys who say hot is faster must scrub less on every pane - which I don't believe anyone does. I do the same action whether I'm using hot or cold water.
The advantages for me lie with the supple hose and warm pole. Wait till you crack a pane as I did last year and you won't be so impressed.
The benefits for speed are not a myth for us. We work at high speed on maintenance clean with hot water. If the hot water isnt working we get about 3 times the number of complaints
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Dave willis
obviously you don't have much in your vans ::)roll
common sense really to lock a van completely whilst working
why Archer, never lock my van during the day! I live in Devon, very safe place to live, where are you?
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North west
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North west
fair enough
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Archer and Daz live on the rough side of the Pennines if I lived there I'd lock my van too ;D
As it is I leave my back doors open but I do sometimes lock the cab.
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I never lock my van when working ??
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Ben,
why fair enough ?
you obviously came to the UK because you where proberbly brassed off with peddling your bike round in france
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Ben,
why fair enough ?
you obviously came to the UK because you where proberbly brassed off with peddling your bike round in france
don't start please Archer!
it is very safe where i live and i love it, don't be so jealous ;)
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Ok,
I am wrong for making sure my van is locked, how stupid of me.
like I have said before, might as well leave it open with keys in, engine running as well.
And theres me thinking im the thick one :-[
even the night i leave my van unclocked!
live somewhere else if you are too scared ;) ;D
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Ben is your van worth nicking .
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Can anyone tell me why do vehicles have locks on them ?
Surely its a waste of money to fit locks on vans when nobody WOULD ever steal a van.
Going to see if insurance will give me a deduction on renewal
Telephone call to insurance:
Insurance: Hello, can I take your name please ?
Me: yes its Mr plank
Insurance: Hello Mr plank what can I do for you
Me: hello, I have been insured with you now on my policy for over 3 years and seeing as I have never claimed I was wondering if I was entitled to a discount for my renewal premium ?
Insurance: Where is the vehicle kept overnight ?
Me: in front of my house
Insurance: have you had a tracker fitted or extra security ?
Me: No, I don't bother going to that extent for my work vehicle
Insurance: Whys that Mr plank
Me: just I heard on a forum that I go on, its full of very clever people and they say likewise
Insurance: What precautions do you take Mr plank in securing your vehicle whilst at work
Me: oh, while I am working I leave the van unlocked at the back, infact I leave the engine running, all windows down, and have a big banner with an arrow aimed at my van saying "NOBODY would ever steal my van" even more so if I lived in Devon
Insurance: Oh well Mr plank, as you put it like that YES we can reduce your annual premium by £420.00
Thanks guys for your comments regarding leaving it un locked.
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Can anyone tell me why do vehicles have locks on them ?
Surely its a waste of money to fit locks on vans when nobody WOULD ever steal a van.
Going to see if insurance will give me a deduction on renewal
Telephone call to insurance:
Insurance: Hello, can I take your name please ?
Me: yes its Mr plank
Insurance: Hello Mr plank what can I do for you
Me: hello, I have been insured with you now on my policy for over 3 years and seeing as I have never claimed I was wondering if I was entitled to a discount for my renewal premium ?
Insurance: Where is the vehicle kept overnight ?
Me: in front of my house
Insurance: have you had a tracker fitted or extra security ?
Me: No, I don't bother going to that extent for my work vehicle
Insurance: Whys that Mr plank
Me: just I heard on a forum that I go on, its full of very clever people and they say likewise
Insurance: What precautions do you take Mr plank in securing your vehicle whilst at work
Me: oh, while I am working I leave the van unlocked at the back, infact I leave the engine running, all windows down, and have a big banner with an arrow aimed at my van saying "NOBODY would ever steal my van" even more so if I lived in Devon
Insurance: Oh well Mr plank, as you put it like that YES we can reduce your annual premium by £420.00
Thanks guys for your comments regarding leaving it un locked.
i don't live my engine running archer, don't exaggerate
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Ben is your van worth nicking .
no, only a vauxhall vivaro,5 years old
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do you sell onions from the back of your van ?
stop drinking archer otherwise you are going to be banned again!
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doesn't matter that its 5 years old, you would be lost without it
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doesn't matter that its 5 years old, you would be lost without it
you are right archer but if they want to steal it,lock or unlock,does it make a big difference? it takes 10s to unlock a van or car!
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BEN M,
enough said,
lock or unlock :-X
surely you are not as dim as a brothel lamp
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this was a thread that was going pretty well until your neck was unwound.
I am not commenting anymore, because you think it is ok to make sly digs regarding saying "Fair enough" to North West
Out of everyone on here, you seem to be the only person that goes crying and reporting people
i feel save where i live, if you don't feel save where you live, go somewhere else! end of story!
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i am thinking of going to east devon pretty soon,
do you fancy meeting up for a drink
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i am thinking of going to east devon pretty soon,
do you fancy meeting up for a drink
i would love too,seriously, i am sure you are a top guy when you're sober
let's meet for a coffee then ;)
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Always starts around now interesting ::)roll
& I thought it was a forum to help with window cleaning ??? More like a dark alley of a rough street at times !!
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i don't drink alcohol Benjamin
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Shane,
your right,
i am not commenting anymore
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Always starts around now interesting ::)roll
& I thought it was a forum to help with window cleaning ??? More like a dark alley of a rough street at times !!
you are right Shane, stop it now Archer! ;D :-*
so hot water? is it worth the extra cost?
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Reason to lock van.
While working 2 brats I mean kids decided to climb into the back of my van and play with one of my
poles hitting a passing car and almost causing an accident.
Lucky no one was injured or damaged caused.
As I had left the van unlocked I don't think my insurance would have paid out so it could have been
costly.
Its not just theft you have to watch out for lock your vans.
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by the sound of some comments on here, I suppose you turn up in a spacecraft ::)roll
PMSL :-[
Have not got a clue what you are on about??
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a big fat NO i have one used it a couple of times. its in the shed when its that cold you run the the risk of cracking glass
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of course you haven't ::)roll
Mork calling orsen,
come in orsen :-[
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a big fat NO i have one used it a couple of times. its in the shed when its that cold you run the the risk of cracking glass
What a load of crap
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a big fat NO i have one used it a couple of times. its in the shed when its that cold you run the the risk of cracking glass
What a load of crap
Not a load of crap at all. If you are cleaning old style glass that's oiled floated, a lot of them are held in place with panel nails and covered with putty. When its near freezing in winter hot water users will run hot water over the glass. The heat disperses from the centre of the glass to the outer edges where the metal panel pins are and because of the sudden change in temperature the glass cracks occasionally due to thermal shock.
Even double glazed units are prone to thermal shock, I've had two units blow shortly after I cleaned them.Never use hot water anymore, at best mild water if need be. Apart from initial cleans and Plastics wet weather jobs, conservatory roof's, there isn't much requirement to use hot water.
How many suppliers want to sell you a hot unit, yet how many can be bothered to service it or repair it when it goes wrong?
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Windowswashed,
it all comes down to common sense when using hot water systems.
It has more advantages than cold water, and if you have a hot system you can use it using normal cold water on most of your jobs if you desire, which we do.
It is a must for me, and definatly something I wouldn't be without.
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I like hot but if you clean single pane glass you can hear it expanding even at fairly low temps. I had a double glazed unit go this year - it was minus three and the water was around twenty degrees. Cost me £103 to replace a fairly small pane. Insurance company was a waste of time (£500 excess). If a large shop window went then I dread to think what the cost would be. I switch mine off most of the year.
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Never had a problem at all in the years I have used hot,
hope I am not tempting fate
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the rule of thumb is 20 degrees above ambient temps and only double pane glass and with the van locking im completely with archer on that one, ben is happy becasue so far he has never had his van stolen, however if he did have because it was unlocked i would imagine it would inconvenience him somewhat and he would have himself to blame, good areas have crooks as well :-)
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fit an immersion heater in your tank then on cold days leave it on timer at night it will keep your water hot all day cost 70 pence a night far cheaper than LPG etc cost to have this done by a good plumber £140 ish and will stop your poles and battery and pump from freezing
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Love my lpg heater, wouldn't be without it in the winter now. Don't use in the summer but winter it is great. Well worth the small amount of gas they use.
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fit an immersion heater in your tank then on cold days leave it on timer at night it will keep your water hot all day cost 70 pence a night far cheaper than LPG etc cost to have this done by a good plumber £140 ish and will stop your poles and battery and pump from freezing
I'm with this guy, I have an immersion fitted for winter, leave it plugged in overnight the tank acts like a radiator keeping everything frost free, and the hose will still melt thru snow after 8 hours of working. All fitted for about £60 in materials and 1 hours work tops.