Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richard jagger on August 08, 2013, 01:35:32 pm
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So often when people do not pay the advice offered on the forum is drop the custy.Well here is a better option that I have used with great success.
Its quite easy to do. Nag them, pester the hell out of them,I believe the last thing them want is to hear or see you. I call the every day until they pay me. If they block I use a different phone. I do not care if it offends them or disrupts there life I just go at the all the time. There will be not peace. Its letters, texts, phone call home there work there mobile and knock on there door until I am paid and, I charge 2 quid which is on the invoice .Its also states all legal cost will be born by the customer a month more until the pay.
Until now I have only one bad of 15 quid which I am busy with. Where did I pick this up from? Debt collectors. Don`t walk away. Never get rude, stroppy or flustered just persistently nag. I don`t ever don`t take prisoners.
Good luck
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This last customer took 5 months to pay but it cost him 30 quid more.
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That's all well and good but if your being excessive you may leave yourself open for a harassment charge ringing their place of work is a no no and you'd not recover the monies anyway
And let's put into perspective, you've probably spent more time, effort, and stress chasing this thing than the original debt.
Luckily for us windies the only loss is our time, unlike a builder who may have forked out for materials etc..
If your getting stressed over an occasional bad debt that amounts to 10 mins of your working month your in the wrong biz
Darran
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THE ONLY THING WE PRODUCE IN THE GREAT BRITAIN IN VOLUME ...................................IS EXCUSES.
THE REASON I AM IN BUSINESS TO DO A GOOD JOB AND BE PAID.NO STRESS. THE STRESS IS FOR THE BAD PAYER.
After all stress is man made.
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You don't ever don't take prisoners. Good for you ;D
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Its not harassment and never will be, harassment must be intentional and be intended to cause harassment alarm and distress and have no lawful basis.. This is lawful pursuance of a civil unpaid debt which you have a right to do in law
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The one I love to use when they don't answer the phone anymore is that I call them off a different number let it go to answer phone and then in the message say their name and then act as if the phone is breaking up by saying bits of words and every other word if you get the idea. Watch how quick they call you back, people are nosey and will want to see what you wanted, then when they call say "hi it's the window cleaner" it gets mine every time
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;D What a good idea.
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I went thru a phase of doing this with slow payers Sat morning at 8am etc then realised I had better things to do with my time so binned about 30 in one go and spend my time canvassing for "proper" customers now dont have that problem any longer :)
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That's all well and good but if your being excessive you may leave yourself open for a harassment charge ringing their place of work is a no no and you'd not recover the monies anyway
And let's put into perspective, you've probably spent more time, effort, and stress chasing this thing than the original debt.
Luckily for us windies the only loss is our time, unlike a builder who may have forked out for materials etc..
If your getting stressed over an occasional bad debt that amounts to 10 mins of your working month your in the wrong biz
Darran
Spot on mate
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they are very few and far between non payers on my round.i think i wrote off £36 last year and its only £25 this year.peanuts.
i really couldnt be bothered harassing them.too busy cleaning other customers windows and relaxing! ;) :) :)
dont clean more than twice without payment then you dont lose much if they dont pay.i have got a letter off darren lanes window cleaning that i will post to messers in the future.
its funny isnt it?i remember people who didnt pay me 10 years ago and the amount as well!
ive never had a really good paying job either domestic or commercial that hasnt paid me!id be chasing it up a bit more if it was a few hundred quid though!! ;D ;D
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I have the same thinking, dont dump them just hassle\ remind them to pay. most people just forget, I have 1 customer that did not pay since december 12 and when I caught up to him he said sorry but he actually works 7 days a week. he went straight out and withdrew £50 and paid for the last 5 months and 4 months in advance.
I now only have 1 that I am convinced is a crap payer and can sense he is a waste of time. once I get my money hes gone, the others are just busy people.
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Its quite easy to do. Nag them, pester the hell out of them,I believe the last thing them want is to hear or see you. I call the every day until they pay me. If they block I use a different phone. I do not care if it offends them or disrupts there life I just go at the all the time. There will be not peace. Its letters, texts, phone call home there work there mobile and knock on there door until I am paid and, I charge 2 quid which is on the invoice .Its also states all legal cost will be born by the customer a month more until the pay.
Until now I have only one bad of 15 quid which I am busy with. Where did I pick this up from? Debt collectors. Don`t walk away. Never get rude, stroppy or flustered just persistently nag. I don`t ever don`t take prisoners.
Good luck
Lol, who has the time or the energy for that? For the sake of £10 or £15, no thanks I've got better things to do with my life than spend my precious time nagging people.
If it's work time, then it's time I'd rather be out earning money. If it's my free time, I'd rather be at the cinema or hiking in the mountains.
Nagging people just puts me in a bad mood. Much easier to drop them and replace with someone you don't have to nag. Problem solved.
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Chasing up payment is part of our job,as we are our own credit department.
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Chasing up payment is part of our job,as we are our own credit department.
Correct but spending £££. To collect ££ is a waste of time
Do you also leaflet and flyer all the neighbours telling them. Mrs x at no. 22 has failed to pay the window cleaning bill and why not place a full page ad in the local newspaper that will get their attention
Darran
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Chasing up payment is part of our job,as we are our own credit department.
Correct but spending £££. To collect ££ is a waste of time
Do you also leaflet and flyer all the neighbours telling them. Mrs x at no. 22 has failed to pay the window cleaning bill and why not place a full page ad in the local newspaper that will get their attention
Darran
Funny you say that. I mentioned a debt a few times to the debtors neighbours.
Once they squared it up on their neighbours behalf.
Once, she told me where he drank.
I left a note saying please pay up, if you're finding it inconvenient I could meet you at (his local) The Falcon.
Paid the next day on full-didn't want the embarrassment I assume.
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Mad. Barking mad. More barking than a dog on steroids from Barking.
Time spent chasing £15 is better spent cfinding someone who will pay you.
A customer who pays £15 every four weeks will spend just under £4,000 with you over the next 20 years. Instead of chasing the £15, use the time instead to chase the £4,000.
Vin
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Mad. Barking mad. More barking than a dog on steroids from Barking.
Time spent chasing £15 is better spent cfinding someone who will pay you.
A customer who pays £15 every four weeks will spend just under £4,000 with you over the next 20 years. Instead of chasing the £15, use the time instead to chase the £4,000.
Vin
Well said that man
Darran
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Under the Administration of Justice Act, debt collectors cannot harass you into paying your debts.
This means they’re not allowed to continually phone you, repeatedly visit you at home or hassle you in public.
They’re meant to keep their attempts to contact you within reasonable hours too –so they don’t have the green light to visit or call you at any time of the day or night.
What’s more, if you ask to be contacted by email or post only then they must respect this request and can’t get in touch through any other means.
So to stop unwanted phone calls or visits you should inform debt collectors that you only want to be contacted in writing (specifying whether by email or post).
Make sure you ask for written acknowledgement of your request and keep a record of all your correspondence with them just in case.
Can debt collectors tell your family you’re struggling?
No, discussing your debt with a family member, friend or neighbour without your permission is in breach of data protection laws.
Debt collectors or creditors are not allowed to disclose your financial situation to anyone else, unless you give express permission for them to do so.
Can debt collectors contact your employer?
Again, speaking to your employer about your borrowing without your permission is against data protection laws.
What’s more, unless your debt is a business loan, the company or collection agency cannot call or visit your place of work to collect payment unless you’ve given them permission
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Its quite easy to do. Nag them, pester the hell out of them,I believe the last thing them want is to hear or see you. I call the every day until they pay me. If they block I use a different phone. I do not care if it offends them or disrupts there life I just go at the all the time. There will be not peace. Its letters, texts, phone call home there work there mobile and knock on there door until I am paid and, I charge 2 quid which is on the invoice .Its also states all legal cost will be born by the customer a month more until the pay.
Until now I have only one bad of 15 quid which I am busy with. Where did I pick this up from? Debt collectors. Don`t walk away. Never get rude, stroppy or flustered just persistently nag. I don`t ever don`t take prisoners.
Good luck
Lol, who has the time or the energy for that? For the sake of £10 or £15, no thanks I've got better things to do with my life than spend my precious time nagging people.
If it's work time, then it's time I'd rather be out earning money. If it's my free time, I'd rather be at the cinema or hiking in the mountains.
Nagging people just puts me in a bad mood. Much easier to drop them and replace with someone you don't have to nag. Problem solved.
Your right, there's more to life then just money! I'd rather be living my life then worrying about a measly £20 debt. I'm only a window cleaner 6 hours a day and the rest of the time I'm James.
You can always earn money but time you can't get back
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I keep relaxed about it I've got custies who can go 6 cleans but pay in the end and its nice when it comes in so long as they don't avoid me I don't mind.
As long as the cash flow across the round is fairly constant then I'm happy.
I'm quite lucky because I collect around 80% of what I clean while I'm there, sometimes if people owe I came back with more than I clean.
A lot of my custies pay for each other etc.
On the other hand if I think I've got a messer I drop pretty quickly, I really can't be doing with chasing debt.
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Smudger Darren we are not Dept collectors. Being a small business all that drivel goes out the window. Remember we are only window clearers expecting to be paid. You sound like some attorney.
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Isn't the problem here a matter of principle and respect. If you think your wages are peanuts and not worth chasing up then on the other hand the customer thinks it's peanuts and is happy to let the debt mount up worry about bigger bills and forget about you. If everybody was like that we'd all be out of business. So I ask you what you think of yourselves: not worth worrying about? an after thought? ... I don't blame the poster here, he's got some self respect and so has our profession. I can't stand people looking down on us windies as not worth worrying about. Yes it maybe true you spend more time chasing the debt and time is lost money. But at the end of the day it's a matter of principle and how much self worth we award ourselves.
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Isn't the problem here a matter of principle and respect. If you think your wages are peanuts and not worth chasing up then on the other hand the customer thinks it's peanuts and is happy to let the debt mount up worry about bigger bills and forget about you. If everybody was like that we'd all be out of business. So I ask you what you think of yourselves: not worth worrying about? an after thought? ... I don't blame the poster here, he's got some self respect and so has our profession. I can't stand people looking down on us windies as not worth worrying about. Yes it maybe true you spend more time chasing the debt and time is lost money. But at the end of the day it's a matter of principle and how much self worth we award ourselves.
It's a principle that costs you time when you could be concentrating on getting more paying customers.
I have too much self-respect to care what anyone thinks about my not chasing a £15 debt. I do care about how much money I have in the bank when I retire.
Vin
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I agree with the chasing and hassling until they pay up, I am like a dog with a bone if anyone owes me money, but i wouldn't continue cleaning them.
Sometimes you can spend more time chasing a customer for money than doing the actual job itself ... they're a waste of valuable time to repeat the process once they've eventually paid up and time much better spent finding reliable customers.
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Debt collector, builder, window cleaner, you just can't hassle people it will be regarded as unreasonable - I'm not saying people who owe money shouldn't pay but its part of any biz that you will get a % of bad debts
You may think it alright to ring someone 10 times a day every day but unfortunately its not.
As regard self respect for collecting monies - no customer goes more than 2 cleans or they are on the stop. Higher priced customers gat a reminder e-mail after seven days
Most customers simply forget as windows a not high on the priority list, many now are online payers or go cardless.
How do you think your self esteem stands up continually chasing a £8 debt ? Don't you think that appears a bit desperate? Does that not give power to some twit laughing at you because you really need the money?
I'm not saying don't chase but
1. don't waste so much time it costs you more to recover than the original debt
2. Don't let cents build up unless you are prepared to lose the money
3. What comes around goes around they will get what they deserve one day
Darran
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How do you think your self esteem stands up continually chasing a £8 debt ? Don't you think that appears a bit desperate? Does that not give power to some twit laughing at you because you really need the money?
It's nothing to do with desperation, its the principle. People have work done on their house, they should pay whether it's £8 or £80. That same twit will be laughing at you for cleaning their windows for free.
As for hassling people, it is only hassle (or harassment according to legislation) if they expressly tell you to stop phoning, emailing, etc ... up until that express statement you are reasonably chasing a debt.
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THE ONLY THING WE PRODUCE IN THE GREAT BRITAIN IN VOLUME ...................................IS EXCUSES.
THE REASON I AM IN BUSINESS TO DO A GOOD JOB AND BE PAID.NO STRESS. THE STRESS IS FOR THE BAD PAYER.
After all stress is man made.
5 months chasing a debt sounds stressful to me, man; chill.
And we produce VOLUME in volumes, don't we? Stop shouting and put on some Bob Marley.
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Pdale - just pointing out differing perceptions
Entirely up to each individual trader how they wish to pursue outstanding monies and can disregard advice and observations as they see fit
Darran
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How do you think your self esteem stands up continually chasing a £8 debt ? Don't you think that appears a bit desperate? Does that not give power to some twit laughing at you because you really need the money?
It's nothing to do with desperation, its the principle. People have work done on their house, they should pay whether it's £8 or £80. That same twit will be laughing at you for cleaning their windows for free.
As for hassling people, it is only hassle (or harassment according to legislation) if they expressly tell you to stop phoning, emailing, etc ... up until that express statement you are reasonably chasing a debt.
"Principles".
Whenever principles get mentioned on this site, someone is losing money, time and credibility. Why chase £15 for months? Shouldn't you be doing something better with your time?
You have to be wasting one of:
1. Time you could be cleaning (how long do you have to waste for it to become counterproductive financially? 20 minutes?)
2. Time you could be canvassing or lefaletting (one customer will make up for the non payer a hundred times over over the next few years)
3. Time you could be spending with your family (priceless)
Why do you care if someone's laughing at you? You should be laughing at the fact that they think you're bothered about their miserable existence.
Vin
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I just send gav around with his hairy men
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It's nothing to do with desperation, its the principle. People have work done on their house, they should pay whether it's £8 or £80. That same twit will be laughing at you for cleaning their windows for free.
It sounds like you're more bothered about than that than the money.
You can't make someone change their perception of you, in that respect.
Don't waste anymore time on them, especially second guessing what they might be thinking.
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Whenever principles get mentioned on this site, someone is losing money, time and credibility. Why chase £15 for months? Shouldn't you be doing something better with your time?
It sounds like you're more bothered about than that than the money.
You can't make someone change their perception of you, in that respect.
Don't waste anymore time on them, especially second guessing what they might be thinking.
Their perception of me doesn't bother me, it's the principle of the matter.
If i spend time chasing the money I will not clean them again, but i still want that money that's owed. If you construct a round properly and compact it shouldn't take months to collect money owed as you'll always be in the area to give them a knock and personally never have money owed into the next month, unless they are on hols, in the many years I have been a window cleaner..
We are window cleaners, not debt collectors chasing a bad debt. I do work on your house, i want paying, simple. I don't understand why this is an issue for a window cleaner?
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I don't understand why this is an issue for a window cleaner?
Because you should focus on what makes you more money: chasing a one-off debt or chasing good, new, repeat business.
"Principles" should not obviate the need for good, cold mathematical calculation of effort versus return before embarking on action.
Vin
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Because you should focus on what makes you more money: chasing a one-off debt or chasing good, new, repeat business.
"Principles" should not obviate the need for good, cold mathematical calculation of effort versus return before embarking on action.
Vin
If you organise collections properly it should not get in the way of growing your business. I generally collect one evening a week and an hour on a Sunday, this in general covers everyone. If I can't catch someone in when i'm next in the area a simple text or phone call to leave the money under the mat/plant pot etc generally suffices. Not saying I haven't had bad payers and messers, I let those go, but it doesn't stop me collecting what's owed.
I have been window cleaning since 1986 on and off, worked in general this way and do not have one person from all those years owe me money, apart from a £14 job from 3 weeks ago due to her working away.
If you are willing to clean and not put systems in place to collect the money owed then you have your priorities wrong as we are in it for the money not the clean ... I am not talking of you personally but cleaners in general.
I really cannot understand why someone would spend half hour or so on a job and let that money go, but each to their own.
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I think (looks like to me) we are getting wires crossed a little bit here
No one is saying you can't collect or chase a debt but there comes a point where you are spending more time/ money chasing it than its worth.
Darran
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jeeeesh..........! ;D ;D ;D ;D
basically i very rarely get a non payer.most of the time they pay up eventually.the £25 job that id written off was because id been back 4 times and it was a bit out of my way to lots of other work.i also had lots of other work due and add ons coming in thick and fast.it was stressing me out so i just written it off and ive never gone back.
sometimes its just more hassle than its worth if your busy.
regards
dazmond
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I worked out a long time ago to not chase debt unless it mounts up out of control which is verey rare! A cleaver man would spend his spare time growing his business instead of trying to chase and get mr jones to pay£15 he owes for just 1 clean or face being dropped if he doesnt pay before next clean is due!.
I learn a lot from all sorts of people on this forum on how to and how not to run my business. Yes im in it for the money but quality growing brings in quality money.
As said before you need to target your customer base and understand that customers have money trouble, i have many customers owing 3/4/5/6 cleans and a debt list of always around £2500, am i worried?? No im not as i know ill get it as i always do. And as long as debt lost stays around the same figure im happy.
Look at the bigger picture i do.
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Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business. I have made a point of running a payed up book. You do not need to spend anymore than a few minutes each day. Its not a matter of been a 10 calls a day man, but more like persistent.
Letting the customer knows you are aware he/she still owes you money as all the person wants is the dept to go away.Your job is to let him /her know it has not.
I am sure the words " out of sight out of minds " rings true. I WILL NOT ALLOW IT TO BE OUT OF MIND. The customer I have just chased has been a customer for years, and I thought was good for this dept. But not this time.
I for one, will chase all dept and if the customers thinks they can get away with it, think again.
Its part my business policy.
I have been is business for 44 years in different business, and I know from experience its a sound policy to have.
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hi mick do you work on your own?thats a lot of "rolling debt" money to be owed?mines more like £300-£500 at anyone time!sometimes it goes up to a grand but soon goes back down again.
i have very few that owe me more than 2 cleans and then its only customers i know will pay eventually.
lots of my customers either pay me on day of clean or send cheques/bacs payments within a few weeks.i also go collecting for an hour or so once a week on very compact estate work.
regards
dazmond
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Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business. I have made a point of running a payed up book. You do not need to spend anymore than a few minutes each day. Its not a matter of been a 10 calls a day man, but more like persistent.
Letting the customer knows you are aware he/she still owes you money as all the person wants is the dept to go away.Your job is to let him /her know it has not.
I am sure the words " out of sight out of minds " rings true. I WILL NOT ALLOW IT TO BE OUT OF MIND. The customer I have just chased has been a customer for years, and I thought was good for this dept. But not this time.
I for one, will chase all dept and if the customers thinks they can get away with it, think again.
Its part my business policy.
I have been is business for 44 years in different business, and I know from experience its a sound policy to have.
I disagree with that, unless you'd like to list them prove otherwise.
And I think you take it too personally. It's a cliche but business isn't personal.
The time and effort chasing a debt has got to be weighed up and if it's worth pursuing, do it, if not, write it off.
Sometimes I think the time wasted on bad customers would be better used providing a service for the good ones.
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Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business.
I agree totally. Though I feel chasing is probably the wrong word to use, a phone call, a text or a knock does not stop you from canvassing to get more work. If I have done these things and the customer avoids me and still owes by next month, then there is little point in cleaning them the following month if the signs are there that they are a bad payer. There is no reason for outstanding debt to get out of control to the point of hundreds, let alone thousands.
It has amazed me if i'm honest that there are a number here who feel that collecting debt gets in the way of growing your business, if collecting is organised correctly there is no need for it to get in the way.
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hi mick do you work on your own?thats a lot of "rolling debt" money to be owed?mines more like £300-£500 at anyone time!sometimes it goes up to a grand but soon goes back down again.
i have very few that owe me more than 2 cleans and then its only customers i know will pay eventually.
lots of my customers either pay me on day of clean or send cheques/bacs payments within a few weeks.i also go collecting for an hour or so once a week on very compact estate work.
regards
dazmond
No mate i have 2 £5k rounds. When i was on my own and collecting 3 times a week i had verey small debts like yourself but it is not possible to chase them now as have so many. I still have more money than i need without collecting whats owed to me and records show i get it all at the end hence why it doesnt bother me so much. many of my customers let it build up few cleans before sending a cheque, just part of the game.
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Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business.
I agree totally. Though I feel chasing is probably the wrong word to use, a phone call, a text or a knock does not stop you from canvassing to get more work. If I have done these things and the customer avoids me and still owes by next month, then there is little point in cleaning them the following month if the signs are there that they are a bad payer. There is no reason for outstanding debt to get out of control to the point of hundreds, let alone thousands.
It has amazed me if i'm honest that there are a number here who feel that collecting debt gets in the way of growing your business, if collecting is organised correctly there is no need for it to get in the way.
Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??
To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.
I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.
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The problem with our industry is. WE dont see ourselves as one. If we did we would be concerned with the image we have. Many customers see us as rag tag bunch not worthy of payment.By not insisting on payment confirms this perception. If we all did do our best to collect outstanding debts this perception would change quickly. "I have already got the reputation of a good window clean but not bull."
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It's rare I've ever been knocked by a customer; maybe five-or-six times in total; definitely under ten.
The biggest one was £70; I remember that one.
It used to annoy me, but I now just let it go. I'm not going to stress or spend time chasing debts; or lose sleep over it.
I find that once you're established it happens extremely rarely too. The £70 was a contractor - a fellow window cleaner who I think was struggling himself last year during the rainy season (most of last year).
There's people like builders who don't only charge for labour; but spend thousands on materials and staff; it's those guys I feel sorry for when they get knocked.
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I am similar to Tosh in this aspect.
I am learning to let it go if people owe me money. We send some letters, including solictors letters but after that we let them go.
Most customers will pay quickly, and it's really uncommon for people to not pay in the end.
I find the more i deal with customers who complain, or owe us money aren;t paying, and hassle... the less I enjoy running my own business... and the less i enjoy my work, the less energy I put into expanding and improving my business.
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Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??
To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.
I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.
No need for name calling Mick.
If a customer feels you have done a crap job surely it's up to you find that out? One thing i make clear to all my customers is that if i have done a bad job then let me know.
You seem be equating collecting debt with chasing debt, which is where in my opinion this thread has gone off on a tangent. Surely you have all your customers phone numbers when you canvas or take them on? It's as easy as sending a text or phone call. If you were to spend half hour, 40 minutes, 1 hour etc on a job, spending another 5 minutes on the phone as a reminder to pay is not a bad thing.
If i were to have hundreds or thousands of £££'s of bad debt, spending a few hours or even a day collecting that is not out of the question ... and then drop those customers from next month as you know you are going to have the same problem again.
If it's hundreds paying someone to collect it on the door is not out of the question ... If you are sitting on £2500 of bad debt you can even pay me 50% of it, i'll come down to Kent over a weekend collect it for you and we'd both be happy ;)
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Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??
To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.
I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.
No need for name calling Mick.
If a customer feels you have done a crap job surely it's up to you find that out? One thing i make clear to all my customers is that if i have done a bad job then let me know.
You seem be equating collecting debt with chasing debt, which is where in my opinion this thread has gone off on a tangent. Surely you have all your customers phone numbers when you canvas or take them on? It's as easy as sending a text or phone call. If you were to spend half hour, 40 minutes, 1 hour etc on a job, spending another 5 minutes on the phone as a reminder to pay is not a bad thing.
If i were to have hundreds or thousands of £££'s of bad debt, spending a few hours or even a day collecting that is not out of the question ... and then drop those customers from next month as you know you are going to have the same problem again.
If it's hundreds paying someone to collect it on the door is not out of the question ... If you are sitting on £2500 of bad debt you can even pay me 50% of it, i'll come down to Kent over a weekend collect it for you and we'd both be happy ;)
Im not name calling and appologise if it came accross that way just you dont see the bigger picture.
you are missing the point, i explained the £2500 or in factn £2700 that it is at the mo isnt an issue as its always around that figure momth in month out and every customer pays me sooner or later. Its paranoidd window cleaners that are over exadurating the topic.
the only customers i have had mess me about or refuse to pay are when i do a crap job which i respect as id do the same, a lot of window cleaners blame it on the customer for there rubbish attempt of a first clean for the reason of dumping for lack of payment, i have seen it so many times from canvassing with the storys new customers tell me and they are right if not happy then why should they pay and the flip side if they are happy then why would they mess you about???
And its a no to phoning them or chasing them to pay as we return every 4 weeks and slip them which gently reminds them without sounding desperate ringing them asking to pay me the £10 they owe, i see it as sounding desperate. I can count on 1 hand the amount i have stopped cleaning due to not paying/refusing to pay so for me my method and way of dealing with it is working fine.
Learn to trust your customers more as none of them expect you to clean there windows and not pay you for it just like we dont expect to get paid if we dont clean them or do a poor job.
Anyway im glad i dont suffer from the paranoia of some on here otherwise id be crying myself to sleep each night worrying if mrs smith will be in to pay me my £10 and if shes not in and doesnt pay me online within 7 days ill dump her and lose out on £120 a year from her(verey business savvy.......not).
Another good example is my gardiner, i owe him for 3 months worth of mowing and will pay him cash when i see him. If he rung me after 1 month and said can you pay me your balance id prob tell him where to go afterwards as to me it makes him sound desperate however he is a nice chap and knows ill pay when i see him as im crap with making online payments as cant be botherd unless i get time which is hardly ever.
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Good points being posted in this thread. The one point I can't get my head round is some of us seem to think we come across as desperate if we insist on being paid? Try not paying the pizza delivery guy, or your icecream guy when he hands over a cornet to your kid.
I do a lot of collecting, and the normal state of payments owed from over 350 customers is around 20 to 30 will have not paid because of various reasons. My average price is €17 (about 15 quid ). As long as I don't clean more than twice without payment, then the most I could lose is €34. (average house here takes about 15 minutes, before the experts start taking the micky, they're army quarters for married soldiers, and nearly all the same. We don't clean anything bigger than 3 bed semi's here)
I've taken customers to small claims court over here for less than 50 quid. I've always won, but the hassle and time it takes isn't worth it really.
I understand Mick's point and attitude, and also Pdale's point. It's upto the individual in the end.
As for appearing desperate, to me, expecting to be paid isn't desperate. Working on Sundays on domestics and walking round the back of some custy's house while they're having a BBQ makes us look desperate.
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I think (looks like to me) we are getting wires crossed a little bit here
No one is saying you can't collect or chase a debt but there comes a point where you are spending more time/ money chasing it than its worth.
Darran
I agree with Darran's post.
It's not about not expecting payment or not chasing up a payment. What the disagreements are about are the levels some people will go to to get their money.
On this forum I've heard people threatening to kick doors down, heard people prepared to do criminal damage to locks and that's just two examples. That is more damaging to this industry than someone letting a few quid go.
Big businesses take a knock sometimes; it's expected. But they don't let it get personal.
I'd sooner lose the money by doing the right thing rather than get paid by acting like an idiot.
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But they don't let it get personal.
Spot on. You're quite bright for someone from Wigan.
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I think it's extremely rare to have a customer who will knock you for money deliberately.
More likely that a customer who doesn't pay you regularly is either very disorganised with financial matters or has other things going in in their life (maybe an unstable relationship, serious illness, money problems etc.).
Whatever the reason I reckon it's always best to not take it personally.
Some will pay you in the end........and some won't.
I don't spend a lot of time chasing debt because it's rare that I don't receive payment. But if I have to chase money up it's through one or two text reminders and then if no joy I will just drop them from the round.
But I don't take it personally, I just remove them from the round which brings closure and replace them with another name on the list and move on.
No point getting stressed over a few quid.
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Clean payment or no second clean.
Yes a customer can forget to pay but if reminded then there should be no excuse.
Would your customers be happy if they didn't get paid at the end of the week or month I
think not.
Mutual respect if you do a job you should get paid within the time agreed No excuses.
Here is one to think about, maybe the customer would be quicker to pay if they valued your
work and where afraid to lose your services.
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Clean payment or no second clean.
I disagree. I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.
I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance). A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).
I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception). Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.
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Some of my customers often offer to go to the cash machine to get my money. I tell them don't go specially for me, especially if they've been to work. I just say I'll call again or let them pay another way.
They seem to appreciate not having to trail out and it's no big deal to me.
I once offered a young, single mum to leave payment until the next time, as she was clearly emptying her purse to pay me. I could see the relief on her face, as she clearly needed that cash more than I did. I still think she remembers that and she became a lot friendlier (not like that ;D).
Maybe I'm too soft or maybe it's just good PR.
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Clean payment or no second clean.
I disagree. I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.
I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance). A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).
I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception). Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.
You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.
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Clean payment or no second clean.
I disagree. I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.
I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance). A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).
I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception). Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.
You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.
I have had about 5 non payers in 5 years and if I had let them go to 6 cleans then that would be 30 cleans
that I wouldn't have got paid for.
I have a question.
You only have room for 10 new customers so you have
the choice of taking on 10 customers that pay on time every time
or 10 who pay but when it suits them so who would you pick ?
Yes I will dump anybody who doesn't pay before the next clean is due and your more than welcome
to them.
If I am a fool because I have built a round of good quick paying customers then yes I am a fool.
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Clean payment or no second clean.
I disagree. I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.
I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance). A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).
I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception). Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.
You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.
I have had about 5 non payers in 5 years and if I had let them go to 6 cleans then that would be 30 cleans
that I wouldn't have got paid for.
I have a question.
You only have room for 10 new customers so you have
the choice of taking on 10 customers that pay on time every time
or 10 who pay but when it suits them so who would you pick ?
Yes I will dump anybody who doesn't pay before the next clean is due and your more than welcome
to them.
If I am a fool because I have built a round of good quick paying customers then yes I am a fool.
It depends on how desperate you are to collect your money or not! People are humans so you can not sit there and say every one of your customers pays on time as it just doesnt happen like that.
To me a fool is someone building up there business who drops a customer because they havnt payed within the 7 days requested or before the next clean on there collection card. Wether mine pay on time each month or 3 months late at the end of the year my taking will be the same as they all pay one way or another without the need to stree and worry a out it.
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for me a customer owing me 2 or 3 cleans is enough.i stop cleaning them until payment is received but it usually gets paid.this is on monthly jobs.
so say a 2 monthly customers owes you 3 cleans.are you gonna wait 6-7 months for your money?
if its a monthly customer then if you clean them 6 times thats 6 months without payment?even if they work abroad you could text them with bank details so they can pay by BACS even if their in dubai!(one of my customers does this).
i have customers who pay 6 months in advance or a few cleans in advance no problem but i dont let customer rack up 5 or 6 cleans in arrears.
my cashflow is very good all year round.dipping a bit in august due to holidays but not too much.my takings are usually roughly the same as ive earned in any given month,sometimes more.
i suppose the bigger you get the more rolling debt you have.even the commercial jobs i have either pay on the day or within a few weeks.
regards
dazmond
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psssttt, standing orders (domestic) ;)
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Clean payment or no second clean.
I disagree. I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.
I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance). A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).
I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception). Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.
You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.
I have had about 5 non payers in 5 years and if I had let them go to 6 cleans then that would be 30 cleans
that I wouldn't have got paid for.
I have a question.
You only have room for 10 new customers so you have
the choice of taking on 10 customers that pay on time every time
or 10 who pay but when it suits them so who would you pick ?
Yes I will dump anybody who doesn't pay before the next clean is due and your more than welcome
to them.
If I am a fool because I have built a round of good quick paying customers then yes I am a fool.
It depends on how desperate you are to collect your money or not! People are humans so you can not sit there and say every one of your customers pays on time as it just doesnt happen like that.
To me a fool is someone building up there business who drops a customer because they havnt payed within the 7 days requested or before the next clean on there collection card. Wether mine pay on time each month or 3 months late at the end of the year my taking will be the same as they all pay one way or another without the need to stree and worry a out it.
Its not about being desperate for your money its about taking on a new customer and not getting stung or
taken for a fool.
Why stop at 6 why not 12 or 18 cleans before dumping do you only get desperate after 6 cleans.
My customers all pay on time and I have a full round. I don't get stressed or worry because I targeted
the right customers and quickly dumped the messers.
I do a quality job for quality customers.
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Again, it's not about not getting paid or allowing customers to run up a big bill and not paying.
It's about the lengths some wc'ers go to to chase a debt. Some go to lengths and take measures that I see as wasted effort. But that's just my opinion.
And all customers are different and we can't always judge another's customer by a few words on the internet.
Another thing is, the OP was saying it's detrimental to the 'industry' to let off bad payers. I reckon some of the more extreme attempts at collecting payment are far more detrimental.
There's nothing wrong with wanting payment, chasing it up, even going down the legal route.
But sometimes it's beneficial to just take a knock. You might not be able to see the benefit financially but you can see them in other ways.
And in business you can't always account for every penny.
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Why when ever we debate things on this forum the thread always swings to outer fringe of lunacy after all we are all level headed chaps.Its the notion that all windies are over the top when it comes to business policies and practices.
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Lol who cares. The way i see it is as long as i get paid im happy! To be honest i realy dont care if they pay straight away or in 4 cleans time! He fact that they all pay without me having to go collecting is all that matters to me! I have more than enough cash from customers who do pay on the day and on time.
If you have a 50k a year round and they all pay on the day then you have a 50k round
If you have a 50k a year round and it takes them 2cleans plus to pay then you still have a 50k a year round so there is no difference apart from some are silly and choose to dump late payers and lose out on money and then have to ponce about replacing the customer etc.
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I'm with millwall mick on this one . It always makes me laugh on here when I read people saying don't clean until you get paid for the previous clean .if I did that I wouldn't have any work .some of my custys I only see once or twice. Year , and I don't chase anyone , the money always turns up .i cant remember the last time I dropped someone for late paying . Grif I just read your post twice , I couldn't spot a corny joke ,or was it well hidden ;D
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So often when people do not pay the advice offered on the forum is drop the custy.Well here is a better option that I have used with great success.
Its quite easy to do. Nag them, pester the hell out of them,I believe the last thing them want is to hear or see you. I call the every day until they pay me. If they block I use a different phone. I do not care if it offends them or disrupts there life I just go at the all the time. There will be not peace. Its letters, texts, phone call home there work there mobile and knock on there door until I am paid and, I charge 2 quid which is on the invoice .Its also states all legal cost will be born by the customer a month more until the pay.
Until now I have only one bad of 15 quid which I am busy with. Where did I pick this up from? Debt collectors. Don`t walk away. Never get rude, stroppy or flustered just persistently nag. I don`t ever don`t take prisoners.
Good luck
To me this is an extreme post/action therefore the thread was always going to be verging on the edge of sanity
Darran
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I'm with millwall mick on this one . It always makes me laugh on here when I read people saying don't clean until you get paid for the previous clean .if I did that I wouldn't have any work .some of my custys I only see once or twice. Year , and I don't chase anyone , the money always turns up .i cant remember the last time I dropped someone for late paying . Grif I just read your post twice , I couldn't spot a corny joke ,or was it well hidden ;D
I can be serious, Bazza.
I once did it in 2003, as well.
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I do two cleans if payment has not been made by the time the third clean is due the service stops until i'm paid.
If after chasing for a few months if they don't pay i delete the dept & customer and more on to the next good paying customer on average i write of £70 to 100 per year
If i had a large amount trying it on every year i would chase them with solicitors letter etc but for 3 - 5 customers a year i think my time is better spent growing my business instead of worrying about dead wood
Paul