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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 05:10:25 pm

Title: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 05:10:25 pm
I'm thinking once i'm full to the brim would it be worth getting another van and taking on a worker.
The only problem seems to be the VAT threshold, once I go VAT registered then HM gets 20% of the turnover so i'd lose 20% of takings from van 1, the new van would lose 20% of its takings, by the time i've paid wages and expenses for van 2 i'm not sure I would even earn as much as I would running just 1 van.
Anybody already done this and made a success of it, or is it not worth the hassle.
Or is it more about looking longer term and maybe the 3rd van is where you will see a bit of profit?
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: LBWCS on August 05, 2013, 05:12:32 pm
Answer seems simple then, keep it just below the threshold, earn 20% more and save some stress
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: dave0123 on August 05, 2013, 05:15:41 pm
You dont loose 20% of your turnover because for example

a house at £10.00 will become £10.00 + Vat once you become vat reg so it would become £12.00 for the job
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 05:19:30 pm
You dont loose 20% of your turnover because for example

a house at £10.00 will become £10.00 + Vat once you become vat reg so it would become £12.00 for the job
In theory yes, but I think most of my customers would not be happy if I told them the price was going up 20%
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on August 05, 2013, 05:22:54 pm
Answer seems simple then, keep it just below the threshold, earn 20% more and save some stress

+1 :D
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Dave Willis on August 05, 2013, 05:23:56 pm
My neighbour only uses tradesmen who don't charge vat - he says it's cheaper and doesn't see why he should give twenty percent of his pension to the Government. He has a point.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: davids3511 on August 05, 2013, 05:42:28 pm
You dont loose 20% of your turnover because for example

a house at £10.00 will become £10.00 + Vat once you become vat reg so it would become £12.00 for the job
20% Increase that easy? As T Cooper would say 'just like that'. Plus it will limit when you can next put the price up. Custy doesdnt care if it is because of vat, all they know is a price increase.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: S.A.J on August 05, 2013, 05:54:17 pm
Are you domestic only or do you do commercial too? What's the %
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Scrimble on August 05, 2013, 05:59:11 pm
you dont lose 20 percent,

 you get all the vat back on expenses, your van, diesel, equipment etc etc etc

Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: 8weekly on August 05, 2013, 06:03:39 pm
You can go on the flat rate scheme. Not sure wat the % is for windowcleaning though.

It isn't far off 20% as overheads are a small cost relative to t/o.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:04:50 pm
you dont lose 20 percent,

 you get all the vat back on expenses, your van, diesel, equipment etc etc etc


Yes I know you can claim anything you have already paid vat on, but that is probably quite a small percentage
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Pete Thompson on August 05, 2013, 06:05:33 pm
Quote
you dont lose 20 percent,

 you get all the vat back on expenses, your van, diesel, equipment etc etc etc

This.

Alternatively you can go on a flat rate scheme where you just hand over about 12% (I think) and don't claim anything back.  Probably better for a business like window cleaning where you don't purchase much on a day-to-day basis.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:06:57 pm
Are you domestic only or do you do commercial too? What's the %
About 95% domestic at the moment.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Dean Taberner on August 05, 2013, 06:07:15 pm
If you really want to push your business on then its the only way to go.

I wouldn't recommend it for solely domestic customers though as it would be a massive chore.

Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: dave0123 on August 05, 2013, 06:07:46 pm
Quote
Quote
you dont lose 20 percent,

 you get all the vat back on expenses, your van, diesel, equipment etc etc etc

This.

Alternatively you can go on a flat rate scheme where you just hand over about 12% (I think) and don't claim anything back.  Probably better for a business like window cleaning where you don't purchase much on a day-to-day basis.

Still have to charge 20% to customers though which is a very big hit for them £4 increase on 20 pound house.. or take that hit your self  :-\
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: DG Cleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:08:41 pm
The only logic I can see if you want to break the vat threshold would be to smash straight through and take turnover above and beyond 100k asap. :D
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:09:18 pm
Interesting, sounds like that might be the way to go

Quote
you dont lose 20 percent,

 you get all the vat back on expenses, your van, diesel, equipment etc etc etc

This.

Alternatively you can go on a flat rate scheme where you just hand over about 12% (I think) and don't claim anything back.  Probably better for a business like window cleaning where you don't purchase much on a day-to-day basis.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:18:54 pm
The only logic I can see if you want to break the vat threshold would be to smash straight through and take turnover above and beyond 100k asap. :D
Unfortunately as we all know it can take a while to build a full round of decent paying customers, so it won't be easy to get the 2nd van in to profit especially with the vat killing it aswell.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Pete Thompson on August 05, 2013, 06:28:28 pm
Quote
Still have to charge 20% to customers though which is a very big hit for them £4 increase on 20 pound house.. or take that hit your self

No, not really.  You are only paying the vat man 12% of your turnover, so you only need to raise your prices by 12%.  Yes you are right in that the vat rate is always 20% on sales, but you still only raise your prices 12%.

For example, say you have your £20 house, and you vat register on the 12% flat rate scheme.  Each time you do that house you now have to give 12% to the VAT man, so you only put your price up to 12% of £20 = £22.40, which is not too big a hit.

So in order for you not to lose any money, the prices only have to go up by 12%.  Its designed to take into account the fact that some businesses (like cleaning, and other services) dont buy much stuff for resale.

I know a mate who has done this and he said it works out fine, and is easier from a paperwork point of view than keeping track of every single purchase you make.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:36:37 pm
Thanks Pete, I will definitely explore this as it sounds like it might be the answer.
Quote
Still have to charge 20% to customers though which is a very big hit for them £4 increase on 20 pound house.. or take that hit your self

No, not really.  You are only paying the vat man 12% of your turnover, so you only need to raise your prices by 12%.  Yes you are right in that the vat rate is always 20% on sales, but you still only raise your prices 12%.

For example, say you have your £20 house, and you vat register on the 12% flat rate scheme.  Each time you do that house you now have to give 12% to the VAT man, so you only put your price up to 12% of £20 = £22.40, which is not too big a hit.

So in order for you not to lose any money, the prices only have to go up by 12%.  Its designed to take into account the fact that some businesses (like cleaning, and other services) dont buy much stuff for resale.

I know a mate who has done this and he said it works out fine, and is easier from a paperwork point of view than keeping track of every single purchase you make.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: DG Cleaning on August 05, 2013, 06:47:52 pm
The only logic I can see if you want to break the vat threshold would be to smash straight through and take turnover above and beyond 100k asap. :D
Unfortunately as we all know it can take a while to build a full round of decent paying customers, so it won't be easy to get the 2nd van in to profit especially with the vat killing it aswell.

I know its not easy but if it was me I'd canvass like mad even employ a small team of canvassers or mass leaflets drops.
Any time spent just over the threshold is wasted you would be better off just under.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: steve rix on August 05, 2013, 07:11:56 pm
Get custies to pay cash and pocket it.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: britishwill on August 05, 2013, 09:51:11 pm
Hi HampshireWindowCleaning

I am in same situation. I am going flat rate you get a 1% reduction for the first year too!

I am really going to put the pressure on advertising, van sign written, A board outside house, (we mainly do very large houses so not too much hassle), free advert on yell, door to door canvassing, email to all clients introducing refer a friend.
I have never advertised before as I had another company selling Christmas and got 90% of my clients from that and the rest from word of mouth.
I think once the ball is rolling you will be fine but maybe get an extra pair of hands part timer turning into full timer to help with all the first cleans. Let me know how you get on, maybe we can help each other out with pitfalls etc etc!
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: roundbuilder on August 05, 2013, 09:58:46 pm
Hi HampshireWindowCleaning

I am in same situation. I am going flat rate you get a 1% reduction for the first year too!

I am really going to put the pressure on advertising, van sign written, A board outside house, (we mainly do very large houses so not too much hassle), free advert on yell, door to door canvassing, email to all clients introducing refer a friend.
I have never advertised before as I had another company selling Christmas and got 90% of my clients from that and the rest from word of mouth.
I think once the ball is rolling you will be fine but maybe get an extra pair of hands part timer turning into full timer to help with all the first cleans. Let me know how you get on, maybe we can help each other out with pitfalls etc etc!


You sold christmas??

Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Jim Waugh(Albright & Shiny) on August 05, 2013, 10:11:19 pm
No the deal fell through , something to do with the sanity clause...
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Total shine cleaning services on August 06, 2013, 08:17:40 am
if you're on flat rate(12%) can you charge 20% a d keep the difference..?

Graham
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: formb on August 06, 2013, 08:31:24 am
Quote from: Totalshinemk
if you're on flat rate(12%) can you charge 20% a d keep the difference..?

Graham

You can charge whatever you like, as long as you give the tax man his cut. When you provide a VAT invoice it still needs to say 20% whether you are flat rate or not.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: britishwill on August 06, 2013, 08:55:45 am
Christmas trees! did it for over twenty years.
Title: Re: Going past VAT threshold
Post by: Matt. on August 06, 2013, 02:35:14 pm
Why would anyone who deals mainly with cash even think about goin vat reg ???

I am vat reg an pay around 4k every 3 months to the thieving gits !!! ( after I have claimed all expenses )

It will have an effect on your business, big time !

Only go vat reg If you have 50k worth of cheques or bacs payment etc etc.

I want cash work