Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Stoots on August 03, 2013, 02:44:00 pm
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Hi.
I recently started a car valeting business and want to expand by going into cleaning carpets.
I plan on setting up a new entity rather than tagging it onto my existing business, new website, new name etc.
I suppose the things i need to know are.
1. Which machine (cheapest possible solution)
2.Where to get training
I have a van, some experience of marketing and obviously some cleaning skills
Initially i had though of buying a rug doctor and joining the low end of the market, pricing accordingly obviously.
Now i read rug doctors are poo and i need to spend a lot more.
car valeting hasnt turned out to be as good as id hoped, customers always looking for cheap, how does carpet cleaning compare and is work hard to come across?. I am mainly looking at adding a few strings to my bow before going full time next year, i am hoping to add gardening and fencing possibly other services too.
Any advice/help or tips?
thankyou adam
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Do you know why your valeting business hasn't done so well?
Have you looked at successful valeters, oh I mean Detailers and how they market themselves and to who?
Could you spend the money you are going to spend on kit, training etc for carpet cleaning on something that would give you a big advantage in what you already do?
The grass is no greener over here just like when carpet cleaners think spending 3k on a pressure washer will suddenly change their financial fortunes.
Why not head over to the window cleaning section. Build up a round and you need no expensive kit.
Check out this guy, maybe all you need is a bit more bullsht.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYefrkQH4AM
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My valeting has done ok from the effort ive put it, one or two jobs a week, i only do it part time on weekends. using adwords and leaflets, stopped leaflets now. I havent approached businesses and im sure this is where i need to be. Im in the middle a bit because top end detailers doing top end cars have premises and expensive equipment and customers with money. Here there are immigrants on every garage forecourt doing a decent (to the customers eye) job for little money.
But im planning on going full time self employed next year, its something i have to do, im fed up with my full time job and i need to make something work. I dont want to be relying on valeting, its weather dependant to an extent, and im not 100% convinced i can get the work req at least for a while, i have no savings or money so i cant afford to build it up steady. I need to find another 2 or 3 avenues of making money, carpet cleaning and gardening are the initial toughts but im looking into various areas to see what is going to be the best with regards start up costs vs returns.
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Everyone will have different figures, but I spent £4,000 on equipment and training beofre I saw a penny in return. I've also spent £550 on a website.
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Adam,
Wayne is talking sense window cleaning very low start up cost, pick which houses you want to clean, at a price you want to charge, and it's regular work.
Carpet cleaning very up and down, fencing, gardening, tree cutting all too seasonal,and one offs.
Best of luck Hotsteam
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Hi Adam
Some sensible advice.
CC is a very difficult business to get established in, certainly as hard as valeting, you really need to build up some funds before going self employed, I would suggest at least 10k .
Cheers
Doug
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10k is so far beyond my means i wouldnt even attempt it.
I started valeting on about £1500, van, equip,chems, clothing,flyers,website,etc etc.
Only way would be to get a loan but i cant get credit lol.
i was hoping to be able to start with a second hand machine and some training, i may have a rethink and look into something else. but well see
thanks
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Even with £10k then you aren't guaranteed customers, if I were to do it all again I would buy a window cleaning round and pick up carpet cleaning as I went along or become a teacher average retirement age 56!
Shaun
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Or...
If you do more than a six months stretch inside like one of my relatives not only do you get taught hw to use a mop properly, but he also came out with a BICS qualification and a number of companies willing to give him a full time job.
Plus if you are single rent and food is taken care of. You do have to do someone some damage these days to get six months though. What a crazy country. :'(
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So what is the minimum spec carpet cleaner i should be looking at ?
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100 to 135psi twin vac
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Prochem's Steampro (120psi and two vacs) is adequate for start up. Brand new I think they are £2000 plus VAT, but you can find them on ebay second hand for anywhere between £600 - £1000+. Don't be tempted to buy something on its last legs though.
Or even a Ashby Ninja around the same spec.
Some people are even selling whole set ups on ebay! A lot of people thinking carpet cleaning is easy ha ha.
I think Doug meant that you'd need 10k as "dip into" fund for the days/weeks you have no work. The first couple of yers will be the hardest. You have a van already so that's a good start.
I heard that oven cleaning is a good add on service to carpet cleaning. Its hard work and the pay isn't as much as cc'ing but a lot of work out there and probably more frequent in the early days. From what I've heard the going rate is around £50 and the average oven will take 2 hours. Better than sitting at home watching the telephone.
I would consider window licking cleaning if I where you though. A lot easier to set up, cheaper to run and operate, and you can easily train a monkey to do the cleaning for you while you drum up the business once you get to that stage.
Take a look at the window cleaning section. They are all inbred simpletons there, how hard can it be! ;D
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As already mentioned oven cleaning is worth considering aswell. Pros and cons to it the main one being I HATE IT! but in quieter times its handy cash flow.
Ive just posted as ive seen this on ebay with 2 hrs left, worth a look
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OVEN-CLEANING-BUSINESS-EVERYTHING-YOU-NEED-JUST-ADD-VAN-/330970418090?pt=UK_B_I_Business_for_Sale_CV&hash=item4d0f5fcbaa
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Looked at oven cleaning, a tank looks about same price as a vac.
50 quid for two hours work is a lot of money to me :), thats about what i earn in 4 hours valeting :(
may well do both :-X
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adam 50 quit for full valet (nett or gross?) doing as a mobile service? you should charge 100 and more
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i know. but no one will pay it locally, 50 is the going rate around here, most people will not pay that, theres guys doing it for 30 quid and less ???, most valeters ive spoken to earning decent money are down south.
Google any valeter in leeds area and you will see prices
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I now there was polish guy doing interiors for E50 in my place, he is actually gone from the market already, presume becouse he was cheapest, Mobile valet in my area starts with E80 for interior and 120 for full valets and that the prices I am on, my strategy is to be on very high quality level. Interior takes 3hrs and seats are dry when I finish the job, of course I am using expensive equipment. But this is only add on to the carpet cleaning so I am not concentrating on valets as the money are s..it comparing to the carpets.
Think, diesel to get to the customer around 5, some chemicals, used clothes and more another 3-5, so you are on 40 pounds for 4hrs. and what about van insurance, servicing, etc.???
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Can't get away with charging anymore. Hence why im here looking at carpets . There is money in detailing paint correction etc but there's not the market here at least in the near future.
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Adam not necessarily true mate. I started out as a valeter 10 years ago and still do it now. Although I've had time to build up a base it now guarantees me an income and I do carpets, hard floors around it. In fact i probably dovaleting around other works now as it doesnt make up the bulk. Although I will not entertain cheap valeting, if people want it doing for cheap then I tell them to find a car wash. I live in Oldham, probably a car wash on every corner for £3 to £35 for a full valet yet I've just booked someone in for a week Monday who is paying me £95 per car (3 cars).
I have a minimum two days a week work valeting who are all weeklys for £35-£40 a mini valet, as you can imagine their cars are immaculate as they are done every week.
Don't have the misconception that people who have their carpets cleaned are paying mega money, you still get the people wanting it doing for next to nothing, like everything you need to target the right market and sell yourself and service and educate the customer why it costs what it does.
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Can't get away with charging anymore. Hence why im here looking at carpets . There is money in detailing paint correction etc but there's not the market here at least in the near future.
Adam read your own sentence carefully.
If there is market for Detailing, then there is market for good proper valetors.
ps. these days everyone call himself detailer and most of them are not even close to this.
get extractor with two engines and CFR tool and advertise as best valetor in your area, seats are dry when you finish, do not use cheap chemicals as they are not much cheaper comparing to the good ones, look at meguiars detailer range, 1 gallon containers, and many more.
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Hi Guys
There care lots of established CC's who are finding things difficult, a new starter will need a big budget, hard graft and the skill to build a business.
The latter is the thing which is most overlooked, the successful CC's are good marketers/salesmen and some can even clean quite well ;)
Cheers
Doug
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Can't get away with charging anymore. Hence why im here looking at carpets . There is money in detailing paint correction etc but there's not the market here at least in the near future.
so the question is, why will no one in your area pay good prices for a valet but you seem to think they will pay high prices for carpet cleaning. all service industries have stacks of cheapo's competing against each other. not sure i understand, are you going to be a cheap carpet cleaner as well, isnt that out of the frying pan, into another frying pan.
not having ago. ive struggled for years on pricing, first my prices are up then there down, then up again, the idea is to charge what your worth, not what you would pay yourself. if your setting up on the cheap with anything then you'll struggle to get a good price. why not spend the money upgrading your valeting equipment and maybe find a valeting course that will teach you how to get higher prices. there's always people who will pay your price, you don't see waitrose shying away from a tesco/asda cornered town do you! my town is in the process of having a new waitrose built and within 1 mile they have a lidl tesco sainsburys and aldi.
ive seen valeters with big tents over cars so bad weather isnt an excuse either. put the effort in and you will succeed, make excuses why you should diversify and tbh its you thats the problem, not the industry your in or the area. no business happens, you can't just pick an industry and it gives you a living, and if it doesn't just pick another industry til eventually it does. my advice from experience, knuckle down, ask questions, get training in your chosen field and training in marketing that chosen field. and then work very hard for the rest of your life. never taking anything for granted and always trying to better yourself.
disclaimer, all my advice is food for thought, not set in stone, i could be wrong and therefore read it and make of it as you wish. ;) ;D
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Im not wanting to pack in valeting im wanting to add other things to it. The more services i offer the bigger the customer potential. This isnt really about valeting ive not pushed it to businesses and im not going to lower prices. Ive had training i use good products
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if you get a better extractor and cfr tool then you will have the basic equipment to do carpet cleaning and better valeting, drier seats and washed better, it will give you good recomendations.
Do you have some polisher? You can add at least basic polishing and decontamination services to your offer.
One van you can easy use for basic carpet cleaning equipment, car valeting and for eq oven cleaning
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Thanks radek, thats the idea, adding cc and poss oven cleaning to valeting.
My full valet uses just a liquid wax on top of that i have a DAS pro DA polisher, i offer clay bar, waxing and polishing as additional extras, my most expensive service is £100 which i include the above.
I use mainly use autosmart products and have some poorboys waxes and sealants.
I will try to get a second hand portable extractor, so 100 p.s.i machine is the minimum right?
I will benefit from a better extractor for car valeting anyway, my george is perfectly fine but could be faster.
Hopefully one day i will be in a position to buy top end gear but for now i have little capital so i will have to do what i can, ill get there though, im very determined. Not planning on going full time till next spring so plenty of time to think until then. Cheers
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adam there is airflex mini for sale , http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=173952.0 think it did not sell on ebay
amtech cfr tool is perfect for valeting,
you need hard wax as well if you wax after the polishing, there are cheap and good hybrid waxes lasting up to 6 months. Liquid waxes only for cheap velets were the paint was not cleaned with the polisher
check this out: http://rjservices.ie/306/De-contamination__De-oxydation
this is nice process to do, this wednesday I will be doing this to the audi a3 with very bad oxydation, need to add extra polishing step with rotary, all day work and 250 in the pocket - E10 to cover compound, wax, diesel etc
also you can go waterless to avoid law problems with the waste water
look for 135psi machine at least
be different and offer something different
this is not something that can be learn on any courses, go on www.detailingworld.co.uk
90% valeters donot even know what thay are doing making more bad then good things to the paintwork
educate your costumers explaining why e.q cheap machine wax offered by valeters is not good to their cars
better to do one good job a day then 2-3 cheap ones as you will have more money in the pocket when not spending on diesel
ps. if you have only something like 2-3 thousands then invest it to the advertising as the new gear will give you nothing without customers
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Thanks again, im already on detailing world, however i dont offer detailing service such as paint correction etc yet i use autoglym express wax on my full valets obv this is not as good/long lasting as a hard wax, i always offer the customers extra, like i said i offer polishing and a proper hard wax as extras if the customer wishes.
I would class going in with the rotary, swirl removal etc as detailing which i dont pretrend to be, its certainly something i would like to offer at some point though
edit: just had a look at your site and theres certainly some things i can take to use on my site, i like the idea of having detailing seperate to valeting, this is maybe something i can look at doing myself with regards detailing services.
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Heh Adam, I have been valeting for about 18 years and it is worse now than it has been for ages. Weather has been wetter and wetter most years and custom gone down. I lost a lot of regular customers several years ago at the start of the recession. As a valeter I have been asked to clean carpets on occasions and several years ago decided to advertise it and got Prochem training. I normally use the Dry Fusion method, it gets results and dries in 30 mins or so. There is one on ebay currently. It's the best thing I ever did. Adding another string to my bow. I have to spend more on advertising with Carpet cleaning but it brings in more money and it is in the dry. I eventually want to drop the valeting and just do CC. I think you have to do what your customers want.
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Hi thanks, after experiencing valeting i think you may have a point, carpet cleaning appears more profitable and like you say is not as weather dependant. I think im going to go for a portable extraction vac, mainly because i can use it for valeting as well which will give me more speed and a better result. Valeting is such a low start up i dont see any point getiing rid of it, it may be better in the long run to go into detailing rather than valeting as there is a lot of competion at the lower end of the market it would seem.
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here you go Adam
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=174481.0 That's a good machine.
I would seriously consider dumping valeting and putting all your efforts in to finding carpet cleaning clients.
Why would you want to do something that generates less money per hour?
I sound like a hypocrite because I mentioned oven cleaning lol but oven cleaning blends well with carpets. But even at that, I'd dump ovens when you got busier with carpets and upholstery.
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Adam
Today I did a job in a posh street and next door a van rolled up and it was their gardener. On the side it said something like Lawn Maintenance Specialists which made me chuckle. I got chatting too him and he basically said he used to do everything - like an odd job man in the garden. He was doing krap and even got a karcher to clean patios but didnt help his financial woes.
Anyway the point is what he did was rather than spread himself thin he now 'markets' himself as this lawn expert. He did some extra training and now all these well to do folk are falling over themselves to have him in regular. The real irony is he still does all the other things if required.
Maybe go deeper rather than wider - specialist detailing might be your best bet.
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All good points. The reason i wouldnt drop valeting is because its such low startup i already have gear and its only worth a few hundred to sell. Secondly i have a website paid for that does generate a bit of work. Cc may be more profitable but Im more than willing to do any jobs whilst getting established. Whilst deeper may be better long term i think initially wider will generate more work . I may be wrong but it would be easier to drop valeting if cc works out than other way round.
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Adam
with respect moving sideways will not help you. My advice would be decide where you are in the market then work on your marketing to get more work or better priced work. Carpet cleaning is a different business with long period between contact with your customers, unlike what you do. if your having issues with filling your diary its not going to improve going sideways. just think about all those other people doing what you area doing in your area the work is there. then ask why are you not getting it.
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I would consider window licking cleaning if I where you though. A lot easier to set up, cheaper to run and operate, and you can easily train a monkey to do the cleaning for you while you drum up the business once you get to that stage.
Take a look at the window cleaning section. They are all inbred simpletons there, how hard can it be! ;D
Yeah, all of us ;D Some guys can put a business together in months window licking cleaning. But a lot of them struggle to get enough to go full time. So it's from one crisis to another. I don't think it's tribal or "This is my patch, knuckle dragging mongs" except around Manchester way perhaps.
Some good advice on here so far. Read what goes on this section on a regular basis and you'll save loads of aggro and mistakes. The grass is always greener etc etc. YOU have to put a business together that will feed you. There's no business that is just waiting for you to rock up and get started, if you know what I mean.
Business is as good as you make it. There are guys on here who knock out 4 and 5 times what others knock out. Same business, different attitudes. Your attitude determines your altitude. ( I read that in some clever geezer's book once).
HTH
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Have a look at the Texatherm Carper Cleaning System. The company are based in Weston Super Mare and Mark, the owner, is very hands on with his customers offering advice, training etc. He is extremely knowlegable as well (not just a sales man).
I was a manager at a natoinal company who cleaned all the carpets for the Whitbread estate (so all the Premier Inns, Whitbread Pubs, Costa Coffee shops etc) nationwide and they use the Texatherm system. They have different options for starting up and might be worth giving a call.
I had a quote for the most expensive starter set up including everything I needed including chemicals and it was less than 4000 but thats the most expensive.
Training wise the best I found was the NCCA (National Carpet Cleaning Association) you get an accreditation, loads of advice and loads of support about starting and running a business as well as the actual process of cleaning carpets and upholstery properly.
I feel your pain in relation to getting credit, hence why despite having the experience and training I couldnt afford the kit so left the dream behind..........for now..
Andrew.