Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian101 on August 03, 2013, 10:08:18 am

Title: Employers look away.
Post by: Ian101 on August 03, 2013, 10:08:18 am
Mates daughter just moved house and seen a local window cleaner working away so says how much for mine?

Reply from windie "10 quid but if you dont tell me boss and pay me cash I will do it for £6"

Free enterprise maybe or theft ?

Cant say who it was but Richard i sparkle it wasnt one of yours  ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 10:15:36 am
Theft.

No question.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: ben M on August 03, 2013, 10:19:04 am
we need name  ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 10:21:04 am
Quote from: Ian101
Cant say who it was

Why not? This chancer will be caught eventually.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 11:14:29 am
Not a moderator in sight  ::)roll
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: steven842 on August 03, 2013, 11:50:56 am
Some really good deals there .....!  Ill give you my credit card details and you give me nothing sounds fair uhhh?


Sake the employee simple as tat
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Dean Taberner on August 03, 2013, 11:53:09 am
It is a criminal offence,

Its a form of deception.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 11:54:13 am
Quote from: Dean Taberner
It is a criminal offence,

Its a form of deception.

Theft.

Throw any jargon you like at it, it's theft. This guy is being paid to clean windows for his employer, during this time he is stealing customers for himself and pocketing the money. Theft.

What I don't get is; why not just pocket the £10?
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Dean Taberner on August 03, 2013, 11:57:23 am
Yes totally agree.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: steven842 on August 03, 2013, 11:58:08 am
In scots law it's not theft till the act has been committed

however if a verbal agreement is made between parties and said employee commits the act in working hours then there is a stackable offence

If the customer has an agreement and the employee solicits a cheaper option then in my book that's called business (market forces)

Sack him and be done with him
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 12:11:13 pm
Quote from: steven842
If the customer has an agreement and the employee solicits a cheaper option then in my book that's called business (market forces)

Nonsense. Part of a window cleaning employee's job description is to solicit new customers for the employer. Perhaps IF the employee agreed to come back at a later date and 'sold' the customer a service from himself as opposed to the employer that could be viewed as business.

It is theft.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: steven842 on August 03, 2013, 12:16:40 pm
It's business matey ! If you were cleaning the local shop and I came along there after and offered a cheaper price then that again is clearly business no different to any other business !

Tbh it all depends how the employees contract is written if it clearly states part of his job is to solicit for the employer then he's broken the contract and there fore sack able
It's not theft maybe in your eye but in the eyes of a law scots of English it's breach of contract if there's even an employment contract in place .

Kindest
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: AuRavelling79 on August 03, 2013, 12:21:57 pm
In scots law it's not theft till the act has been committed

however if a verbal agreement is made between parties and said employee commits the act in working hours then there is a stackable offence.

If the customer has an agreement and the employee solicits a cheaper option then in my book that's called business (market forces)

Sack him and be done with him

A stackable offence eh? It's just one thing on top of another with this guy!
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: C o z y on August 03, 2013, 12:23:01 pm
Nee nar nee nar nee nar spelling police!!! ;D

Malc, behave!  ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: steven842 on August 03, 2013, 12:23:32 pm
Pmsl ..... Bloody ipad !

Reason I don't employ and only sub contract .... ;-£
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: C o z y on August 03, 2013, 12:24:33 pm
What's that? 

;-£
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: steven842 on August 03, 2013, 12:32:29 pm
Omg is this about my ipad and corrective spelling or the fact I stated a total valid point

That  some clique folk on here with 2000 posts plus can't handle coming from a guy with only 60odd posts (I'm to busy getting national contracts and f***ing the small guy over Pmsl)

Back to the point guys simple fact is unless this employee has a contract stating that he can't solicit customers then the employer can't do poop !!!
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: AuRavelling79 on August 03, 2013, 12:35:25 pm
Omg is this about my ipad and corrective spelling or the fact I stated a total valid point

That  some clique folk on here with 2000 posts plus can't handle coming from a guy with only 60odd posts (I'm to busy getting national contracts and f***ing the small guy over Pmsl)

Back to the point guys simple fact is unless this employee has a contract stating that he can't solicit customers then the employer can't do poop !!!

You've upset him now Chris P Bacon, he's gone walkabout!  :'(  :)
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: C o z y on August 03, 2013, 12:37:24 pm
OOOH, I hit a nerve. I wasn't picking on you mate, I was making light of your Ipad probs  ;D

OK, I can't delete over 2000 posts, but I'll ask a mod to do it for me if you feel intimidated by post counts. I work with my wife, she does downs and I do ups. So we don't do nationals. I'm old by most peoples standards, and I only pick fights on here with mongs and willy wavers.
You don't come up on my radar as either, so I'm not having a pop at you. Calm down, stop looking for enemies hiding around every corner, and just watch what other members have to say about the subject eh?

 ;D ;D ;D etc
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: C o z y on August 03, 2013, 12:39:04 pm
Must have been summat I said  ???

Oh well.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: jimiwindows on August 03, 2013, 12:57:24 pm
If he does it in his own time its ok
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: formb on August 03, 2013, 12:58:27 pm
It's business matey ! If you were cleaning the local shop and I came along there after and offered a cheaper price then that again is clearly business no different to any other business !

How is that the same..... oh never mind.

Bye.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Jim Waugh(Albright & Shiny) on August 03, 2013, 01:09:31 pm
further clarification. I can say with more than a degree of certainty it is NOT  a criminal offence (England and Wales)
It is not theft as the property (money) hasn't been appropriated form any real loser. The employer is not a loser in this case as they never had any ownership iof the money..
Nor is it deception. a) the employer has never owned the money in question and B) the customer was never deceived in fact the reality was spelled clearly out to them

This is simply a civil employment issue.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Pete Thompson on August 03, 2013, 01:46:03 pm
Quote
Throw any jargon you like at it, it's theft. This guy is being paid to clean windows for his employer, during this time he is stealing customers for himself

It's not a criminal offense at all, because customers are not property.  They don't belong to anyone.

Underhand maybe, but theft LOL, no chance.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: roundbuilder on August 03, 2013, 01:49:29 pm
I dont like to lose sleep over maybe issues like this, i like to know my targets are hit by employee for work thats set. If they do a few jobs which im sure they do here and there with addons like con roofs or facia/gutter cleaning im more of a what i dont know cant hurt type of guy. If i was working for someone else for £8 an hour and 2 houses wanted a 1 off a month i wouldnt declare them to my boss which i guess means im an untrustworthy character but such is life.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: ben M on August 03, 2013, 01:53:30 pm
anyway, what is his name?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: stuart mc on August 03, 2013, 02:10:24 pm
I dont like to lose sleep over maybe issues like this, i like to know my targets are hit by employee for work thats set. If they do a few jobs which im sure they do here and there with addons like con roofs or facia/gutter cleaning im more of a what i dont know cant hurt type of guy. If i was working for someone else for £8 an hour and 2 houses wanted a 1 off a month i wouldnt declare them to my boss which i guess means im an untrustworthy character but such is life.


I agree
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: rosskesava on August 03, 2013, 03:20:26 pm
I don't think it's theft as no one has been deprived of the rightfull use of their property, I'd say it was embezzlement as he's using company equipment on company time with work secured by means of the company.

Also, that stuff posted about the Indian fashion week or something, what's that all about?
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: C o z y on August 03, 2013, 03:21:27 pm
A spam bot mate
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: rosskesava on August 03, 2013, 04:22:33 pm
A spam bot mate

Cheers Mr Bacon.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: robertphil on August 03, 2013, 05:39:45 pm
soon as i heard that id consider my options. probably i would load up the offenders diary with so much work and keep on piling more in , that he would likely quit 
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Griffus on August 03, 2013, 05:59:36 pm
It all boils down to the WC's T&C's. Most will have a clause covering just this.

No law has been broken, it was no more than a conversation, a deniable one at that. Even if he did clean the windows it is still not a legal issue.

At this point all the employer could do if he heard such a thing is open up a formal investigation. Realistically, if he does find out this just needs to be dealt with properly, in line with the company's disciplinary procedure.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: CleanClear on August 03, 2013, 06:36:27 pm
Mates daughter just moved house and seen a local window cleaner working away so says how much for mine?

Reply from windie "10 quid but if you dont tell me boss and pay me cash I will do it for £6"


One of my customers mistakenly paid another WFP cleaner for her last clean and paid him for the clean she now assumed was about to be done. The other WFP cleaner did say we don't have you on our list and she insisted that he or his company done them every month so he done them and got paid, plus he got the outstanding money (mine !!). He apologised to the lady and said he had had staff problems and had just sacked the guy who normally done this round and he had suspected him of creaming off customers and not putting them through his books  ;D Of course what had just happened had made this 100% concrete proof of what was happening. But of course it wasn't, at least not with my custy. She realised her mistake on my next visit and told me and paid me  ;D
 I might use that as a marketting ploy though when asked how much, i'm gonna say if you ring up they'll charge you £20 but if i do it for you now cash its £12. It might work ?  ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: stuart mc on August 03, 2013, 07:01:28 pm
Mates daughter just moved house and seen a local window cleaner working away so says how much for mine?

Reply from windie "10 quid but if you dont tell me boss and pay me cash I will do it for £6"



 I might use that as a marketting ploy though when asked how much, i'm gonna say if you ring up they'll charge you £20 but if i do it for you now cash its £12. It might work ?  ;D

it does work ;) lots of my customers don't know I own the company, they sometimes tip me and say that is for you not your boss ;D I have to pretend to put it in a separate pocket
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: goldoak on August 03, 2013, 09:33:37 pm
head butt him, nuf sed
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Dean Taberner on August 03, 2013, 09:35:12 pm
head butt him, nuf sed


Totally agree :D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: stuart mc on August 03, 2013, 09:38:19 pm
head butt him, nuf sed

;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: PoleKing on August 04, 2013, 07:33:34 am
Slightly different to the OP but when I started, I was working for another bloke.
He said I could do as much if my own as I liked.
As long as his got priority.
A very fair man I think.
On the OP it seems dumb to risk losing your job for £6 to me.
Unless its a job not worth keeping.
Underhanded but I'd doubt illegal.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Richard iSparkle on August 04, 2013, 07:40:43 am
I dont like to lose sleep over maybe issues like this, i like to know my targets are hit by employee for work thats set. If they do a few jobs which im sure they do here and there with addons like con roofs or facia/gutter cleaning im more of a what i dont know cant hurt type of guy. If i was working for someone else for £8 an hour and 2 houses wanted a 1 off a month i wouldnt declare them to my boss which i guess means im an untrustworthy character but such is life.


I thought you canvassed for people Mick?

I guess it's good to know that you're untrustworthy  :o
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: goldoak on August 04, 2013, 08:31:56 am
I dont like to lose sleep over maybe issues like this, i like to know my targets are hit by employee for work thats set. If they do a few jobs which im sure they do here and there with addons like con roofs or facia/gutter cleaning im more of a what i dont know cant hurt type of guy. If i was working for someone else for £8 an hour and 2 houses wanted a 1 off a month i wouldnt declare them to my boss which i guess means im an untrustworthy character but such is life.


I thought you canvassed for people Mick?

I guess it's good to know that you're untrustworthy  :o

yea u dirty snake.. head butt coming ur way ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: roundbuilder on August 04, 2013, 08:44:38 am
I dont like to lose sleep over maybe issues like this, i like to know my targets are hit by employee for work thats set. If they do a few jobs which im sure they do here and there with addons like con roofs or facia/gutter cleaning im more of a what i dont know cant hurt type of guy. If i was working for someone else for £8 an hour and 2 houses wanted a 1 off a month i wouldnt declare them to my boss which i guess means im an untrustworthy character but such is life.


I thought you canvassed for people Mick?

I guess it's good to know that you're untrustworthy  :o

Naah mate, i was thinking of getting back into canvassing but decided against it to build another round up for myself.
Why Build loads of customers for someone else for a small x2 profit when i can find them for myself and have an ongoing return untill they die or cancal which are both rare for a good few years at least as long as work carried out is to scratch.

Anyway bring on the headbut lol.
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: barry mallett on August 04, 2013, 08:52:03 am
That lad must be thick.why didn't he just charge her a tenner,keep his gob shut until he eventually put his boss out of business .thats what I did till my dad went bust .i ended up with a decent round free of charge .
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: bobplum on August 04, 2013, 09:11:08 am
That lad must be thick.why didn't he just charge her a tenner,keep his gob shut until he eventually put his boss out of business .thats what I did till my dad went bust .i ended up with a decent round free of charge .


you did IT TO YOUR DAD????
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: ben M on August 04, 2013, 09:24:54 am
That lad must be thick.why didn't he just charge her a tenner,keep his gob shut until he eventually put his boss out of business .thats what I did till my dad went bust .i ended up with a decent round free of charge .
;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: barry mallett on August 04, 2013, 12:51:23 pm
Yeh . The funniest thing was he used to boast to his mates how proud he was that I had managed to make a good business out of window cleaning where he failed .  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Dean Taberner on August 04, 2013, 01:09:36 pm
Yeh . The funniest thing was he used to boast to his mates how proud he was that I had managed to make a good business out of window cleaning where he failed .  ;D ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: AuRavelling79 on August 05, 2013, 07:49:02 am
Yeh . The funniest thing was he used to boast to his mates how proud he was that I had managed to make a good business out of window cleaning where he failed .  ;D ;D
He must be very proud of you Baz. I would be.  ;)
Title: Re: Employers look away.
Post by: Tom-01 on August 05, 2013, 11:53:55 am
If he's that way inclined he won't last long anyway.