Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: scottt24 on July 25, 2013, 01:01:52 pm
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Little bit of advice needed please guys
Have recently returned from holiday to a letter from MET Parking Services saying I overstayed my welcome at McDonalds recently
Looking at the date and picture they have sent I'm pretty sure I stopped in for lunch and ended up sat around drinking coffee and reading the paper after waiting for rain to slow up
I remember reading a post recently saying that parking tickets for private land are legally unenforcable
Is this really the case, will they go away if I ignore them , or do I need to pay up ??
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If its a private car park as you describe. Its for them to take CIVIL action against you to recover their costs.. How long did you stay, what is their welcome. what are their costs. Can they prove it was you and not a cloned plate.. I would write back and dispute it.. see what their reaction is. Search online for MET parking services and see if you can work out how many people have been successfully pursued by them.
Im an ex cop and so called fines are not enforceable.. This is simply a civil agreement you enter into when parking there. Thats why they put the terms of the agreement on the signs..
They would need to take you to the small claims court, which will cost them more than the award they are likely to get.. I have in the past replied challenging their evidence and I heard nothing back.. Thats not to say they wont try to bluff you back...
Ignore any attempt at them trying to make it look like a Police fixed penalty notice.. its all Bluff and bluster.
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If its a private car park as you describe. Its for them to take CIVIL action against you to recover their costs.. How long did you stay, what is their welcome. what are their costs. Can they prove it was you and not a cloned plate.. I would write back and dispute it.. see what their reaction is. Search online for MET parking services and see if you can work out how many people have been successfully pursued by them.
Im an ex cop and so called fines are not enforceable.. This is simply a civil agreement you enter into when parking there. Thats why they put the terms of the agreement on the signs..
They would need to take you to the small claims court, which will cost them more than the award they are likely to get.. I have in the past replied challenging their evidence and I heard nothing back.. Thats not to say they wont try to bluff you back...
Ignore any attempt at them trying to make it look like a Police fixed penalty notice.. its all Bluff and bluster.
great post, nothing to add
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It depends on the size of the sign in the car park ... if it's large and clearly defines their terms (ie price per hour) of you parking there, they may have a case under civil contract law ... if it's a small one, tucked away in the corner somewhere, it is legally unenforceable.
As Jim states, the reality is if you challenge it they tend to go away.
Either way it's a civil matter and though they make it to look like a parking ticket, it is no such thing.
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ignore them, end of story!
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Im sure this same issue was on Watchdog or one of the consumer programs recently.
Basically they try and fine you rather than tow your car away, as that would cost them money initially before recovering it back.
They automatically send a fine out in the hope that you will just pay it to avoid any further hassles.......and they will be quids in. For doing little more than sending a letter out in the post to you.
Shysters. >:(
I believe as Jim said these companies are trying it on and the "fine" is unenforceable.
But check out further information with citizens advice or something if you want to be sure.
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cannot speak for a pcn from met but I have a similar from parking eye.
All the advice I read was to ignore. That may well have been good advice at the time, however pe have since decided to begin taking people to court , myself included. I have defended the court claim and have yet to hear back though.
It is worth having a look here
http://www.pepipoo.com/
these guys are very helpful and will have the very latest advice on what to do but ignoring the letters may not work in your favor any longer as if pe are seen to win cases in court then many other private parking firms may follow suit.
Hope I have been some help, good luck.
Simon
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Have a look at this
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
I've had a similar thing before, for parking 7 minutes over the 3 hour limit. I just sent a letter back saying I'm not going to pay and if you want the money you will need to take me to court. They sent a letter back saying that I have to pay and if I didn't they'd take legal action, so I ignored them and they basically took no action, 3 years on and no worries.
You may want to tell McDonalds that the company they use to look after their car parks is terrifying their patrons though.
Simon.
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its only the police and council that can fine you for parking,
its a scam, dont even bother replying, file it in the shredder
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if id eaten at Macs and then got a fine id kick up merry hell , id want a word with the manager
maybe park right at their door and sit there holding the horn button till the manager came out , he would have the power to cancel your fine . if he said he has no power id say OH YES YOU DO , oh no i dont , OH YES YOU DO etc
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I would also add that to take you to court they can only sue you for their losses - which in this case are nil as it is a free car park. As others have said, they are careful to put PCN on the notice thinking you will mistake this for a Council/Police Penalty Charge Notice - which is enforceable by legislation - where theirs is a Parking Charge Notice. I had one of these a few years ago and ignored every and all letters they sent.
I have a background in law and even I got a bit shaky when they were threatening court proceedings - and that is just what they rely on - people caving in under the pretend threat of court action.
Nothing came of all the letters they sent me
That said, a friend of mine got one last year and despite all my advice he just paid it coz his missus was cacking her knickers at the mention of court action - depends on whether you have the nuts to keep ignoring their silly little threats
Cheers, Tom
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all this advice is good and true BUT you may be taking a risk in ignoring their letters as I have found out to my cost.
I parked in a Wickes car park last autumn 35 mins longer than the "allowed" 2 hours whilst I insulated my van system for winter with products bought from the store.
9 months on and I am now fighting a county court claim for £150. I am defending it and so far waiting for a reply from the parking firm or a court date which may or may not happen. My defense though may well have been stronger if I were down on record as having had appealed it at the time.
internet advice is all well and good but its you who may be the unfortunate one who has to go through the whole court process. The decision is yours to make at the end of the day but I would have a bit of a search on the net to see if anyone has been taken to court by met.
simon ;)
I'd also add that the initial charge in my case if paid within 14 days would have been £50, 9 months on now and countless hours spent on the internet of an evening arming myself with information to fight this unjust scam, MANY WASTED HOURS, not saying its right but in hindsight I would have paid that and moved on from it months ago.
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Ignore it.
We had the CCJ BS for months and months.
Binned every single letter (about 8 in total from memory)
Not heard anything since.
3rd or 4th time I've done that.
Refuse to pay to spend in their store too.
I won't even pay the £ that gets refunded at check out cause its a PITA
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Cheers guys
I was in the car park for 2 hours, so only 30 mins over the allowed 90
The pics they have sent clearly shows my van with ladders on but you can't see through the windscreen
The sign in the car park is quite big and noticeable
The first demand for £50 came the day I left for holiday the second for £100 was two weeks later on the day before I returned
I think I could get it back down to £50 because of this but don't really want to pay anything if I can help it
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i had the same mate got six letters( you can see all of them online if you want) in the end i sent a big letter in crayon saying you are not getting a penny off me now F*** OFF it is a private invoice they cannot prove you were driving jut as much as they cannot get any money from you
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i had the same mate got six letters( you can see all of them online if you want) in the end i sent a big letter in crayon saying you are not getting a penny off me now F*** OFF it is a private invoice they cannot prove you were driving jut as much as they cannot get any money from you
Cheers mate
When you say you had the same, do you mean the same company or same thing different company
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mien was from Europarks but, anyone like this is a private invoice and not the gov so they are all the same
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Cheers guys
I was in the car park for 2 hours, so only 30 mins over the allowed 90
The pics they have sent clearly shows my van with ladders on but you can't see through the windscreen
The sign in the car park is quite big and noticeable
The first demand for £50 came the day I left for holiday the second for £100 was two weeks later on the day before I returned
I think I could get it back down to £50 because of this but don't really want to pay anything if I can help it
What ever you do, don't write back asking to appeal as it shows you recognise their authority. If it was raining at the time you have a good reason for not leaving straight away as you didn't want to get wet and wanted to finish your coffee. Write back to them stating that you refuse to pay, that you are a Patron of McDonalds and that you didn't want to get wet due to the weather. Also advise them that you are writing to McDonalds to complain about them. Write to McDonalds informing them of the stress this has put you under and you might get some free happy meals.
If it went to court they would find £50-£100 excessive charges for a half hour extra on a free car park. Can you imagine how our customers would react if we decided to charge them £100 fee for late payment. These companies purely exist to make money easily, some times the head office is a small flat of even a bedroom. If you create hassle the chances are they will stop pursuing it although they won't say they are backing down as lets face it, just that one more letter might tip you over the edge.
Simon.
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That reminds me, I got complimented on my driving the other day. I got back to my van after shopping, and there was a sticker on the windscreen which said "PARKING FINE", which was nice.
I'll get me coat ;D
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I'll say it again in case anybody is listening, I took the advice of faceless random strangers on internet forums and ignored all the demands for payment, I am now waiting on a court hearing to be set by northampton county court for £150 plus additional costs if I lose, which may or may not happen, the only real advice I would give is research as much as you can in to MET and whether they have in fact taken anybody to court/successfully won. Ultimately you will have to face the consequences of your decision.
Some private parking firms are bigger than others, the bigger ones are now taking some non payers to court because they can afford to, if they are seen to win some cases it will open the flood gates to more claims from other parking firms. Their revenues must be down because more people were getting more savvy to it and ignoring the threats of legal action.
The advice I was given last october at the time of my pcn was to ignor, it only came to light this march that all of a sudden they dished out a bulk of 600+ court claims from northampton county court in one week alone, upping their game - I am sure many people folded there and then and coughed up £150 on the spot. Now I have submitted a defense questioning the legality of their charge and no financial loss whatsoever for overstaying a free parking limit, I can only wait to hear from them , they may well give up but I don't know yet as this is current and ongoing.
Just trying to give you a bit more informed advice that may help you to decide.
good luck with it
Simon
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http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/
I got a ticket 6 weeks ago, and I am fighting it due to the fact that we were working, there own photograph shows a reel on the road at the back of our van with the hose leading to the window cleaner.
I argued i wasn't parked, but stopped and was unloading.
I have told them not to contact me again unless it is through the courts
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well in dave
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Just ignore them, I get 1 every month and just bin them. also ignore the red warning letters. and NEVER write to them or they will hound you forever....
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I'll say it again in case anybody is listening, I took the advice of faceless random strangers on internet forums and ignored all the demands for payment, I am now waiting on a court hearing to be set by northampton county court for £150 plus additional costs if I lose, which may or may not happen, the only real advice I would give is research as much as you can in to MET and whether they have in fact taken anybody to court/successfully won. Ultimately you will have to face the consequences of your decision.
Some private parking firms are bigger than others, the bigger ones are now taking some non payers to court because they can afford to, if they are seen to win some cases it will open the flood gates to more claims from other parking firms. Their revenues must be down because more people were getting more savvy to it and ignoring the threats of legal action.
The advice I was given last october at the time of my pcn was to ignor, it only came to light this march that all of a sudden they dished out a bulk of 600+ court claims from northampton county court in one week alone, upping their game - I am sure many people folded there and then and coughed up £150 on the spot. Now I have submitted a defense questioning the legality of their charge and no financial loss whatsoever for overstaying a free parking limit, I can only wait to hear from them , they may well give up but I don't know yet as this is current and ongoing.
Just trying to give you a bit more informed advice that may help you to decide.
good luck with it
Simon
It's all in the numbers. They are issuing bulk claims because the figures stack up in their favour:
600 x £35.00 (court fee for claim less than £300.00) = £21,000.00. So you might think 'wow, they must be sure of their case if they are forking out all that money'. But if only 140 of those issued with court papers cough up they have already got their outlay back (140 x £150.00 = £21,000.00). I'm willing to bet at least half of the 600 would be on the phone immediately wanting to pay the £150 once they got sight of the 'official court papers'; not to mention the many judgements they would get because Joe Public didn't bother turning up. Half settling would net them £45,000.00 - a pretty penny for a few letters!
As Poshgravie said the choice is yours
One thing to consider - if you write to them to object/appeal etc they know they have got the right person and can keep hounding you.
Cheers, Tom
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I'll say it again in case anybody is listening, I took the advice of faceless random strangers on internet forums and ignored all the demands for payment, I am now waiting on a court hearing to be set by northampton county court for £150 plus additional costs if I lose, which may or may not happen, the only real advice I would give is research as much as you can in to MET and whether they have in fact taken anybody to court/successfully won. Ultimately you will have to face the consequences of your decision.
Some private parking firms are bigger than others, the bigger ones are now taking some non payers to court because they can afford to, if they are seen to win some cases it will open the flood gates to more claims from other parking firms. Their revenues must be down because more people were getting more savvy to it and ignoring the threats of legal action.
The advice I was given last october at the time of my pcn was to ignor, it only came to light this march that all of a sudden they dished out a bulk of 600+ court claims from northampton county court in one week alone, upping their game - I am sure many people folded there and then and coughed up £150 on the spot. Now I have submitted a defense questioning the legality of their charge and no financial loss whatsoever for overstaying a free parking limit, I can only wait to hear from them , they may well give up but I don't know yet as this is current and ongoing.
Just trying to give you a bit more informed advice that may help you to decide.
good luck with it
Simon
Not finger pointing it anything Simon but I think the error was when you replied.
Just my personal opinion but I think it's like a spam email-once you open one they keep coming...
I've ignored a fair few. They have all threatened CCJ's and started at £30odd gone Upto £200odd and then just stopped.
Each to their own but I won't pay. If there's no barrier it's fair game.
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I'll say it again in case anybody is listening, I took the advice of faceless random strangers on internet forums and ignored all the demands for payment, I am now waiting on a court hearing to be set by northampton county court for £150 plus additional costs if I lose, which may or may not happen, the only real advice I would give is research as much as you can in to MET and whether they have in fact taken anybody to court/successfully won. Ultimately you will have to face the consequences of your decision.
Some private parking firms are bigger than others, the bigger ones are now taking some non payers to court because they can afford to, if they are seen to win some cases it will open the flood gates to more claims from other parking firms. Their revenues must be down because more people were getting more savvy to it and ignoring the threats of legal action.
The advice I was given last october at the time of my pcn was to ignor, it only came to light this march that all of a sudden they dished out a bulk of 600+ court claims from northampton county court in one week alone, upping their game - I am sure many people folded there and then and coughed up £150 on the spot. Now I have submitted a defense questioning the legality of their charge and no financial loss whatsoever for overstaying a free parking limit, I can only wait to hear from them , they may well give up but I don't know yet as this is current and ongoing.
Just trying to give you a bit more informed advice that may help you to decide.
good luck with it
Simon
Not finger pointing it anything Simon but I think the error was when you replied.
Just my personal opinion but I think it's like a spam email-once you open one they keep coming...
I've ignored a fair few. They have all threatened CCJ's and started at £30odd gone Upto £200odd and then just stopped.
Each to their own but I won't pay. If there's no barrier it's fair game.
Darren, I think you have misunderstood me,
I have ignored every letter they have sent me since last October (4 in total I think) and never once acknowledged the charge, replied, appealed or accepted responsibility for it, I also thought that acknowledging it would highlight me on their database for "special attention". My point to the thread, whilst with good intention others advice was to ignore and they will go away, did not work in my experience as I have received a county court claim direct from northampton court. I had to reply to that or else judgement would be entered in my absence in favour of the private parking firm plus added legal costs.
Was just trying to add balance to the replies to this thread for Scott , its not necessarily so anymore that if you ignore the demands they go away, new tactics maybe and as Tom points out very lucrative for the scumbag companies applying these alleged claims through the courts.
Simon
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Sue them, for harassment. Inform them every communication from you to them is chargeable. £35.00 a letter.
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a guy in Ipswich kicked up a real stink about a similar fine, i cant remember the details but he got the fine struck off . he had just started up a business with a transit van after a long time on benefits .
these parking firms and Macd hate bad publicity,in fact the one in Ipswich lost its contract over the transit guy . i happened on him and he was telling me how much extra work he got from the publicity, so you could really rake it in,if you kick off now .
sit with your horn blaring at Macd front door , with a placard warning others of the fines , you will be off the hook in no time
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No he'll get arrested for being a public nuisance if he does that.
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If you don't dispute the fee in the first place, it is though you have accepted it, then the parking company has got a case.
Write to dispute the charge using the template letter in my previous link.
I am prepared to go to court as I was working out of the van at the time, and I am relishing the publicity, Win or Lose, it will make the front page of the local papers.
In fact I might contact the newspapers now
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Daves right don't ignore it
in my experience if you have a half decent case / excuse you normally get away with it or just pay the lowest amount after they say no ... but it drags out for ages
but if you ignore it you will get a summons , only way round that is to lie in court and say you never got the fine or any letter and you never knew anytrhing about it until the summons - id rather pay £30 something quid than risk being done for perjury though
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I'll say it again in case anybody is listening, I took the advice of faceless random strangers on internet forums and ignored all the demands for payment, I am now waiting on a court hearing to be set by northampton county court for £150 plus additional costs if I lose, which may or may not happen, the only real advice I would give is research as much as you can in to MET and whether they have in fact taken anybody to court/successfully won. Ultimately you will have to face the consequences of your decision.
Some private parking firms are bigger than others, the bigger ones are now taking some non payers to court because they can afford to, if they are seen to win some cases it will open the flood gates to more claims from other parking firms. Their revenues must be down because more people were getting more savvy to it and ignoring the threats of legal action.
The advice I was given last october at the time of my pcn was to ignor, it only came to light this march that all of a sudden they dished out a bulk of 600+ court claims from northampton county court in one week alone, upping their game - I am sure many people folded there and then and coughed up £150 on the spot. Now I have submitted a defense questioning the legality of their charge and no financial loss whatsoever for overstaying a free parking limit, I can only wait to hear from them , they may well give up but I don't know yet as this is current and ongoing.
Just trying to give you a bit more informed advice that may help you to decide.
good luck with it
Simon
Not finger pointing it anything Simon but I think the error was when you replied.
Just my personal opinion but I think it's like a spam email-once you open one they keep coming...
I've ignored a fair few. They have all threatened CCJ's and started at £30odd gone Upto £200odd and then just stopped.
Each to their own but I won't pay. If there's no barrier it's fair game.
Darren, I think you have misunderstood me,
I have ignored every letter they have sent me since last October (4 in total I think) and never once acknowledged the charge, replied, appealed or accepted responsibility for it, I also thought that acknowledging it would highlight me on their database for "special attention". My point to the thread, whilst with good intention others advice was to ignore and they will go away, did not work in my experience as I have received a county court claim direct from northampton court. I had to reply to that or else judgement would be entered in my absence in favour of the private parking firm plus added legal costs.
Was just trying to add balance to the replies to this thread for Scott , its not necessarily so anymore that if you ignore the demands they go away, new tactics maybe and as Tom points out very lucrative for the scumbag companies applying these alleged claims through the courts.
Simon
Fair enough.
Wasn't trying to contradict you or anything.
Just saying what had happened to me.
If the County Court had contacted me I would of course acted on it, just (for me) they didn't. Guess its just my good fortune.
All the best with yours though.
Keep us posted?