Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Griffus on July 18, 2013, 06:16:36 pm
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My tds had just started creeping up after going through both RO and DI. It was about .002 but as I've had the system since April last year I thought fair enough.
Bought a bag of Tulsion as recommended by many.
Just swapped old for new and expected an instant zero.
I am gutted as it's now .007.
What could I have done wrong, or what should I have done that I haven't?
Thanks in advance
Ian
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Got the cap on the right way round? Check the arrows.
Is the container clean that you do your readings in?
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Have you let the water run through it long enough?
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Got the cap on the right way round? Check the arrows.
Is the container clean that you do your readings in?
Hi Dave, thanks for your reply.
I am pretty sure it's on the right way as the hoses are braided and bent into shape.
I'll double check though.
Forgot to mention that I tried a couple of clean cups just in case.
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Have you let the water run through it long enough?
Hi Dean, I did wonder.
Ran through for 2 or three minutes after changing.
Tank filling up at mo but will run for longer later.
How long do you recommend?
The water was clear to start, then went like milk, the appeared clear again, though this was when the tds was .007
Thanks again.
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how big is the DI bottle, have you put enough resin in the bottle?
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Quite big, 10 or 12 litres I'd guess.
Filled about 3/4 full.
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fill it up to where the neck starts to curve at the top. then bang it all down on the floor, then reconnect
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fill it up to where the neck starts to curve at the top. then bang it all down on the floor, then reconnect
+1 pack the resin in.
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Will do, thanks guys.
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DI bottles are not bullet proof. You need to check that the seals are all seated correctly, also that the riser tube is not oval at the top.
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Need to check what the tds is coming from your R.O. might not have anything to do
with the D.I.
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How often do you flush your RO unit?
If the resin hasn't brought it down then the next step is to change the filters.
But they just might need a good flush and to do it on a regular basis.
Filters are cheap enough to replace if flushing 1st doesn't lower the tds.
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Need to check what the tds is coming from your R.O. might not have anything to do
with the D.I.
Usually between 70 and 80 from RO.
Was a bit against the clock earlier. Will check in the morning, cheers.
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How often do you flush your RO unit?
If the resin hasn't brought it down then the next step is to change the filters.
But they just might need a good flush and to do it on a regular basis.
Filters are cheap enough to replace if flushing 1st doesn't lower the tds.
Flush once a week for at least 30 minutes.
Pre-Filter changed a couple of weeks ago so can't be that.
From what I've read it looks like maybe I didn't run through enough but mainly that I need to add about anothe 2 litres of resin.
Thanks to all that have posted.
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DI bottles are not bullet proof. You need to check that the seals are all seated correctly, also that the riser tube is not oval at the top.
Hi,
That's an interesting point - where and how tight should the seals be? I can remove the riser tube from the cone at the top of the DI vessel quite easily. There isn't any rubber seal at the point of entry and I have noticed that I seem to be going through resin quicker than expected. I'm wondering whether any ro water only is contaminating the DI water giving the false impression that the resin is spent. Should there be a water tight seal there?
Any advice appreciated cheers
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Update
Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.
TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.
TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).
TDS in the tank after RO is 48.
TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.
Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?
As always, thanks
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Don't Tulsion do several different kinds of resin?
I've always used 115 - never had a problem with it. Maybe try someone elses tds meter too?
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Update
Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.
TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.
TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).
TDS in the tank after RO is 48.
TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.
Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?
As always, thanks
If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s. On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.
At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.
Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.
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I bought a 4040 ro in march tap water is 185ish. after ro it was on 5 then checked it the other day and its jumped to 13 flushed every week but only just changed my filters :-[
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Don't Tulsion do several different kinds of resin?
I've always used 115 - never had a problem with it. Maybe try someone elses tds meter too?
It is 115 that I have.
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Update
Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.
TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.
TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).
TDS in the tank after RO is 48.
TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.
Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?
As always, thanks
If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s. On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.
At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.
Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.
Spruce, thanks for your reply.
Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.
Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?
Do you think I need a new RO?
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I would have said too that the problem is the RO.
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Update
Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.
TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.
TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).
TDS in the tank after RO is 48.
TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.
Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?
As always, thanks
If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s. On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.
At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.
Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.
Spruce, thanks for your reply.
Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.
Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?
Do you think I need a new RO?
Yes it should. But that also depends on how fast you are processing the water through your di vessel. If you are pumping it from an IBC tank through your di onto the van, then the water flow will be too high for your di vessel to cope with. If you were pumping that 48 tds water from your van tank through the di vessel then you shouldn't have a problem as the water is being processed much slower.
Also, having the di vessel on the van does tend to work better as the resin is being shaken around and this will not allow for water paths to form.
There is a cleaner in Middlesbrough that uses 2 di vessels and slowly fills 2 IBC tanks for his requirements with no r/o. He used to use 1 di vessel for a long time and this worked for him as it does other cleaners. His water is similar to ours at 125ppm. But he has to filter the tap water slowly.
We use Tulsion MB115 and it works fine for us. You may have a bad batch of resin (not impossible but unlikely; we always buy this from a known WFP supplier - Purefreedom, Daqua etc.)
Would you be able to identify what the last batch of resin was that you had before? The reason for asking is that Doug from Daqua did say many years ago that some resins work better than others because of the composition of your water. I never understood chemistry at school so Doug's explaination was too complicated for me to understand, but the bottom line was that in some areas Tulsion MB108 would work better than MB115.
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I bought a 4040 ro in march tap water is 185ish. after ro it was on 5 then checked it the other day and its jumped to 13 flushed every week but only just changed my filters :-[
Mine has went the same way from about 5 to 13.
I think its to do with the hot weather and holidays with a lot more demand the water pressure has fallen
slightly.
Flush for about 10 mins before each fill as your R.O. will be drying out during the day.
I would also run more to waste and see if this helps.
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great thanks how do you set it for more waste water is it that red little wheel thing I turn all the way to flush
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Update
Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.
TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.
TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).
TDS in the tank after RO is 48.
TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.
Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?
As always, thanks
If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s. On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.
At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.
Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.
Spruce, thanks for your reply.
Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.
Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?
Do you think I need a new RO?
Yes it should. But that also depends on how fast you are processing the water through your di vessel. If you are pumping it from an IBC tank through your di onto the van, then the water flow will be too high for your di vessel to cope with. If you were pumping that 48 tds water from your van tank through the di vessel then you shouldn't have a problem as the water is being processed much slower.
Also, having the di vessel on the van does tend to work better as the resin is being shaken around and this will not allow for water paths to form.
There is a cleaner in Middlesbrough that uses 2 di vessels and slowly fills 2 IBC tanks for his requirements with no r/o. He used to use 1 di vessel for a long time and this worked for him as it does other cleaners. His water is similar to ours at 125ppm. But he has to filter the tap water slowly.
We use Tulsion MB115 and it works fine for us. You may have a bad batch of resin (not impossible but unlikely; we always buy this from a known WFP supplier - Purefreedom, Daqua etc.)
Would you be able to identify what the last batch of resin was that you had before? The reason for asking is that Doug from Daqua did say many years ago that some resins work better than others because of the composition of your water. I never understood chemistry at school so Doug's explaination was too complicated for me to understand, but the bottom line was that in some areas Tulsion MB108 would work better than MB115.
Hi Spruce, thanks again, a great reply.
Water flow shouldn't be an issue as the complete system is in the van and has been since I bought it in March 2012. It is a Brodex 250RO and up until recently has been just about perfect.
Purchased this batch of Resin from the firm advertising on here (Corwood and Co.). I did wonder whether there could be a problem with it. If it persists I'll contact them.
No idea what resin was in previously, but it must have been good stuff as it lasted 17 momths (light use) that I've had it and I guess somethime before.
Could the heat be a factor, water is luke warm to the touch, I do wonder.
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great thanks how do you set it for more waste water is it that red little wheel thing I turn all the way to flush
Yes that's it.
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I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.
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I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.
Hi Spruce, photo attached showing batch. Not sure if you can check with other poster.
Anyone else having the same problem?
Cheers
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1374359601_WP_20130720_001.jpg)
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As it wasn't a 'bag' size, it was decanted into a plastic bag without any detail of what it was.
He ordered Tulsion and expected that is what was sent.
I also ordered small quantities of resin that came in small plastic bags in my early WFP days, but I never experienced problems with it.
Your bag is the same as mine apart from the batch code obviously - mine is 721120. I bought mine over a year ago.
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Have emailed the seller to ask their advice, and also if they've had any other issues.
Will update if anything to add.
Thanks
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my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.
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my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.
Yep, but 48 in the tank should still be zero, otherwise all DI only guys would be struggling.
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my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.
Yep, but 48 in the tank should still be zero, otherwise all DI only guys would be struggling.
I agree but your membranes are on the way out m8!
why not get another di canister and then should knock it down lower so you double di it,it it comes at 8 from the first one it will be much lower from the second!
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I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.
Doug Atkinson from Daqua replied to this posters issue and my comments regarding the problem Griffus has.
"I've never found resin not to perform, the biggest issues have been faulty risers and in this heat they are prone to it. Also if they have the di head that comes from China with 2 "o" rings there is always a risk of damaging them.
Lastly the amount of dodgy fake TDS meters that give incorrect readings are also a huge factor."