Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SunShineCleaning on July 11, 2013, 08:58:48 am
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I have the pictures from Andrew plus some comments:
Andrew Willis
Working at height consultant, senior partner for eight years working for top 10 managing agents,
38 years in the industry using or managing access equipment,
NEBOSH and various Health and Safety Qualifications
During this property audit and consultancy the team consisted Safety manager for Management agent, Director of the window cleaning company and EHO all agree that the way forward was to bring back the use of a MEWP.
During the day my images were used not to discus the use of the MEWP more about simple controls required such as using demarcation to the height of a pole during the risk assessment process, just so happens Trevor went to town on the whole set up, When Trevor challenged the safety of bringing in the kit I said there was no problems, there is road access and the other areas are load bearing and or are boarded
Image 1 show window cleaner at work, 6.10am, issue was him dropping the pole on public
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/Stuart_Webster/2013-07-08184434copy_zpsb8ab03cd.jpeg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Webster/media/2013-07-08184434copy_zpsb8ab03cd.jpeg.html)
Image 2 shows access from main street no access problems, safe to get MEWP dropped off and positioned
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/Stuart_Webster/2013-07-08183843copy_zps7c88c0a7.jpeg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Webster/media/2013-07-08183843copy_zps7c88c0a7.jpeg.html)
Image 3 shows a different view
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/Stuart_Webster/2013-07-08183718copy_zps97fbf195.jpeg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Webster/media/2013-07-08183718copy_zps97fbf195.jpeg.html)
Image 4 shows also glass above and to the left of glass being cleaned in the image , also has to be cleaned
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/Stuart_Webster/2013-07-08183916copy_zpse930c7f2.jpeg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Webster/media/2013-07-08183916copy_zpse930c7f2.jpeg.html)
Image 5 also used in the training
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/Stuart_Webster/2013-07-08184255copy_zpsf4ec13a5.jpeg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Webster/media/2013-07-08184255copy_zpsf4ec13a5.jpeg.html)
The EHO at the time did not want the main road closed and we could not agree on the use of pole being dropped into the road.
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Thanks for posting those pictures would look forward to others posts on what methods they would use.
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on image no 2 would the road not have to be closed to use a cherrypicker
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on image no 2 would the road not have to be closed to use a cherrypicker
No the road is blocked at the top, no through road access
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Thanks for posting those pictures would look forward to others posts on what methods they would use.
Trevor, would it be a good idea that those posting
A .......Happy to ID themselves, its easy to hide behind an alias
B .......Knowledge, experience and Qualifications
Whilst posting are you going to challenge the FWC for clear legal status on this issue
Regards
Andrew
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First and last images I don't see it a problem. Work out of normal hours, maybe a couple of warning cones either side of the work area, straighten the hose up. If any members of the public decide to walk right through the working area then surely that's their risk assessment going wrong unless of course they can't read.
a) Dave Willis
b) A level in common sense
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Sunshine. Your obsessed.
H&S morons are ruining our country.
Don't encourage them.
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Thanks for posting those pictures would look forward to others posts on what methods they would use.
Trevor, would it be a good idea that those posting
A .......Happy to ID themselves, its easy to hide behind an alias
B .......Knowledge, experience and Qualifications
Whilst posting are you going to challenge the FWC for clear legal status on this issue
Regards
Andrew
Personally I would leave it up to persons choice whether they post that information but it would be good if people posted who do have experience of cleaning largish commercial buildings.
As for challenging the FWC for clear legal status on the issue i cant see a need unless accident statistics start to show there are injuries occurring from falling poles and then I would say there is a need for it to be looked at, but at present I feel there guidance notes are sufficient.
You are far more qualified than me and obviously know much more on how a judge would view the situation if an accident occurred but I seriously think a contractor would be hammered no matter what method they used should an accident occur, for instance scenario 1 a WFP falls and hits someone judge verdict you did not put sufficient measures in place to stop falling object. Scenario 2 an accident occurs using cherrypicker whether it be a minor one are a major one judge verdict why did you use access equipment when job could of been carried out safely from the ground, I know the above is a very simplified version and your risk assessment would be viewed more closely but I cant see how getting legal status on the cordoning of issue would clear up the dilemma
Once again thanks for posting the pictures,I know people have very strong views on this subject and it often turns into a bash Andrew thread me myself also being guilty of this so please can posters try to raise valid points without getting to personal.
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Sunshine. Your obsessed.
H&S morons are ruining our country.
Don't encourage them.
;D ;D
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Does cost not come into the equation?
The giy with proper wfp equipment, rams etc. is going to undercut the guy with access equipment and extra staff every time surely?
It seems the ladder argument has been removed only to be replaced with wfp considered too dangerous for the public.
What next? Mewps too dangerous?
How come abseiling is still allowed?
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Sunshine. Your obsessed.
H&S morons are ruining our country.
Don't encourage them.
;D ;D
+1 ;D
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Who cares. :o
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Work out of hours
Park van right in front
Put cones left and right of van to encourage walk around
pole the glass in a more vertical position 75degree angle or so
get away asap to avoid obstructing
jobs a good un.
Would use a trolley if no vehicle access
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Sunshine. Your obsessed.
H&S morons are ruining our country.
Don't encourage them.
;D ;D
+1 ;D
+2 ;D ;D
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+3 ;D ;D ;D
Danger of dropping a pole on the public! ::)roll
What about danger of running over public due to blind spot on mewp?
I would say the chances of dropping a pole and running into someone are similar.
My method.
Go when it's quiet. Cone up.
Possibly have a second guy there to warn public if it's not as quiet as I thought.
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Yawn! This topic is getting very boring!
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The building owner should fit self cleaning glass so as to eliminate all risks. Or fit windows that turn inside out, they should be mandatory and part of the building regs ;D ;D
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Yawn! This topic is getting very boring!
+1
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I better get a cherry picker as looks like the pole system will be banned, phew
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Sunshine do you have a large shed in your garden ?
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Thanks for posting those pictures would look forward to others posts on what methods they would use.
Trevor, would it be a good idea that those posting
A .......Happy to ID themselves, its easy to hide behind an alias
B .......Knowledge, experience and Qualifications
Whilst posting are you going to challenge the FWC for clear legal status on this issue
Regards
Andrew
Personally I would leave it up to persons choice whether they post that information but it would be good if people posted who do have experience of cleaning largish commercial buildings.
As for challenging the FWC for clear legal status on the issue i cant see a need unless accident statistics start to show there are injuries occurring from falling poles and then I would say there is a need for it to be looked at, but at present I feel there guidance notes are sufficient.
You are far more qualified than me and obviously know much more on how a judge would view the situation if an accident occurred but I seriously think a contractor would be hammered no matter what method they used should an accident occur, for instance scenario 1 a WFP falls and hits someone judge verdict you did not put sufficient measures in place to stop falling object. Scenario 2 an accident occurs using cherrypicker whether it be a minor one are a major one judge verdict why did you use access equipment when job could of been carried out safely from the ground, I know the above is a very simplified version and your risk assessment would be viewed more closely but I cant see how getting legal status on the cordoning of issue would clear up the dilemma
Once again thanks for posting the pictures,I know people have very strong views on this subject and it often turns into a bash Andrew thread me myself also being guilty of this so please can posters try to raise valid points without getting to personal.
Trevor, at last :)
Thats the point I am making,
Sometimes its not easy to put the right controls in place, and I feel from reading posts over the last year all of us would benefit from clear guidance.
The FWC would want us all to sit down only with the HSE and take guidance, during the workshops I showed the group an example of me completing the duty holder (building risk assessment on Rose Court in London, at the time this was the HSE head office, they had got just about everything wrong, yes thats it the HSE had not set up the property so window cleaners could clean safely.
The window cleaners knew how to clean the property and although my job also on the day was to attend a meeting and advise the window cleaners on the changes they should make, I agreed 100% with the method the window cleaners wanted to use. Result, a new travelling ladder system taken out of commission and the window cleaners allowed to use waterfed pole. Me supporting the withdrawing of using a powered sol sit chair at ten floors and wanting a rope access operation.
My view for what it is worth. It is time for our industry (FWC) to move forward, there is a great Facebook page for any FWC members on CIU to get involved with. Then to sit down with a large group, New starter, residential and domestic, small commercial, large and commercial, have the HSE working at height team, I could invite two senior directors from the two largest property management companies, these guys are about as qualified as you will get, a consultant specialising in all types of access, insurers, underwriters from Lloyds, a qualified legal QC who specialises in Health and Safety and a Judge.
The HSE have a large presentation room where other industries have done like wise when they have issues, I used to represent the FWC at a monthly HSE safety advisory group where one representative would attend from 100's of industry types. I would present the information and then allow all groups to have input, and end at a firm judgement.
For the many CIU posters.
There is a simple question you can always ask yourself, its the basis of any Safety Law
Are you protecting yourself and others, due to your action can you or others come to harm. If they can you need to control this and protect them. If you and others are safe then happy days, show me the money
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Something else now?
Seriously I couldnt care less about these ridiculous posts. Id prefer to get out and be working that sitting down discussing health and safety with people. This countries gone bonkers...we're window cleaners for goodness sake not rocket scientists.
Work safely and use a bit of common sense...and stop prying into other peoples businesses.
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yep i reckon sunshine cleaning is obsessed with elf and safety.the mat over the hose and all them cones in a pic he put up a few weeks ago was so funny!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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yep i reckon sunshine cleaning is obsessed with elf and safety.the mat over the hose and all them cones in a pic he put up a few weeks ago was so funny!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
+1
definately agree and then on another post hes parked up on a corner on double yellows.lol
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
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was there not some health and safety video on ladders a few months ago and some elf and safety guru fell off while filming!!NOW THAT WAS FUNNY!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
can someone put a link to it if you know which one i mean? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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was there not some health and safety video on ladders a few months ago and some elf and safety guru fell off while filming!!NOW THAT WAS FUNNY!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
can someone put a link to it if you know which one i mean? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Andrew actually uses this clip on his course, I believe the bloke in the clip was sacked
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New courses for mewp to follow shortly ;D ;D ;D
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was there not some health and safety video on ladders a few months ago and some elf and safety guru fell off while filming!!NOW THAT WAS FUNNY!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
can someone put a link to it if you know which one i mean? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Andrew actually uses this clip on his course, I believe the bloke in the clip was sacked
I would have thought he should have been sent on a course.
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Actually he does look like he's twoting about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4khZIX7jU
He should be sacked for his accent if nothing else.
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
Not really, try giving Charlie Price of JVPrice a call he has MEWPs with built in hoses into the machine, designed just for the reason you mention, its about selecting the correct equipment.
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
Not really, try giving Charlie Price of JVPrice a call he has MEWPs with built in hoses into the machine, designed just for the reason you mention, its about selecting the correct equipment.
OK Lets put some views on this
You have a cleaner on a step ladder in a public house
Ten feet from the ground
Dry dusting some areas using a mop
Should I hire in something safer, protect him should he fall
Or would that be safety gone mad
Your thoughts please
Regards Andy
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You manage the risk, the choice is yours.
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You manage the risk, the choice is yours.
Spot on Matt :)
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
Not really, try giving Charlie Price of JVPrice a call he has MEWPs with built in hoses into the machine, designed just for the reason you mention, its about selecting the correct equipment.
Even with built in hoses this does not remove the awkward working angle for long periods with poles, I am a pretty strong guy and believe me even after positioning MEWP in best position it is still very awkward and difficult.
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
Not really, try giving Charlie Price of JVPrice a call he has MEWPs with built in hoses into the machine, designed just for the reason you mention, its about selecting the correct equipment.
OK Lets put some views on this
You have a cleaner on a step ladder in a public house
Ten feet from the ground
Dry dusting some areas using a mop
Should I hire in something safer, protect him should he fall
Or would that be safety gone mad
Your thoughts please
Regards Andy
This again was an item on your course and if I remember right the cleaner died and brewery got a very large fine. Ideally better equipment could of been used ie podium steps with built in guard rails or clean with extension poles, but just like any other piece of equipment if a step ladder was used correctly by not using top 3 steps to stand on always maintain 3 points of contact, not overstretching and it being positioned on firm level ground then a step ladder would be sufficient for the job.
Are we not going a little of subject here though after hearing many experienced window cleaners views on the pictures that where posted would you not agree WFP was the safer option, may be sunshine cleaning can put the pictures on the health and safety forum he goes on I would be really interested for him to post back their views on the matter.
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Hi Andy
A public House owner got prosecuted for sending an untrained member of staff up a stepladder, I think he fell, it was in Cornwall I think
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I have put several scenarios to the H&S forum and there response was far stricter than Andrews. You and others have demonstrated that you are not interested in the H&S forums opinion it appears because they don't agree with your view. Their qualifications are doubted and pespective questioned.
As for my picture on here you can criticise all you like.
The difference between a wise man and a foolish man is that the wise man will listen to the arguments of his enemy while the foolish man will not even listen to the advice of a friend.
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I have put several scenarios to the H&S forum and there response was far stricter than Andrews. You and others have demonstrated that you are not interested in the H&S forums opinion it appears because they don't agree with your view. Their qualifications are doubted and pespective questioned.
As for my picture on here you can criticise all you like.
The difference between a wise man and a foolish man is that the wise man will listen to the arguments of his enemy while the foolish man will not even listen to the advice of a friend.
I hope the above was not directed at me as it was me that suggested you post it on the H and S forum for me to see their views , and now because you don't accept views of posts on here you post a saying that implies we are all foolish and viewed as your enemy, I can understand you being a little upset as some of the comments have been personal towards yourself but please try and ignore those and stick to the issue the thread was set up for.
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I have put several scenarios to the H&S forum and there response was far stricter than Andrews. You and others have demonstrated that you are not interested in the H&S forums opinion it appears because they don't agree with your view. Their qualifications are doubted and pespective questioned.
As for my picture on here you can criticise all you like.
The difference between a wise man and a foolish man is that the wise man will listen to the arguments of his enemy while the foolish man will not even listen to the advice of a friend.
You and your sidekick arent friends,you are enemys of every window cleaner.
Glad i never wasted my money joining fwc thats all i can say.
As for your mat that is far more dangerous than all your scenario pics.infact the only dangerous was the way your van was parked the otherday on a corner.
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I have put several scenarios to the H&S forum and there response was far stricter than Andrews. You and others have demonstrated that you are not interested in the H&S forums opinion it appears because they don't agree with your view. Their qualifications are doubted and pespective questioned.
As for my picture on here you can criticise all you like.
The difference between a wise man and a foolish man is that the wise man will listen to the arguments of his enemy while the foolish man will not even listen to the advice of a friend.
I hope the above was not directed at me as it was me that suggested you post it on the H and S forum for me to see their views , and now because you don't accept views of posts on here you post a saying that implies we are all foolish and viewed as your enemy, I can understand you being a little upset as some of the comments have been personal towards yourself but please try and ignore those and stick to the issue the thread was set up for.
My issue is that even when H&S people make a comment some people are immoveable in their view despite what advice is given. Personally I try to listen and act on all advice regardless of it's source.
As for the personal comments, it's a shame it comes to that as from most of my back posts it should be seen that I am trying to be helpful.
Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
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I have put several scenarios to the H&S forum and there response was far stricter than Andrews. You and others have demonstrated that you are not interested in the H&S forums opinion it appears because they don't agree with your view. Their qualifications are doubted and pespective questioned.
As for my picture on here you can criticise all you like.
The difference between a wise man and a foolish man is that the wise man will listen to the arguments of his enemy while the foolish man will not even listen to the advice of a friend.
I hope the above was not directed at me as it was me that suggested you post it on the H and S forum for me to see their views , and now because you don't accept views of posts on here you post a saying that implies we are all foolish and viewed as your enemy, I can understand you being a little upset as some of the comments have been personal towards yourself but please try and ignore those and stick to the issue the thread was set up for.
My issue is that even when H&S people make a comment some people are immoveable in their view despite what advice is given. Personally I try to listen and act on all advice regardless of it's source.
As for the personal comments, it's a shame it comes to that as from most of my back posts it should be seen that I am trying to be helpful.
Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
Windiewasher
Are you based in Grimsby?
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Andrew from the posts above all have said they would use water fed pole on that job instead of a MEWP, reasons being they thought it safer, cheaper and quicker than using an MEWP, on your course you highlighted all the risks involved in using a pole and how these could be removed by cordoning off a large area when pointed out this was causing a greater risk then you moved on to bringing in access equipment, from all posts above they see using a MEWP carries a larger amount of risk than the first option.
It would be great if we could eliminate all risk on every job but that is not the case and we just have to work with the best option we have got, having a legal ruling on cordoning off would not solve this issue.
in the next few week I am carrying a job out at night it is cleaning of a large glass canopy we have done for many years uptil about 3 years ago it was always cleaned by water fed pole from a flat roof at base of canopy, suddenly health and safety got involved and we now have to use 20m MEWP as they decided flat roof access was no longer acceptable, before the job was a doddle now you are getting tangled in harness and pole hose, using the pole at extremely uncomfortable angles whilst trying to lean over to clean glass below you, what could of been done by two men in a couple of hours now takes two men all night an extra £400 in hire charges plus you have had to lift and manoeuvre at what I feel unacceptable angles for large amount of time. My opinion the first option was always safer but because flat roof access has now become a no go on many commercial buildings they have now made this job more dangerous, having a legal ruling on an issue often does away with any common sense and often rules out what would be the best approach.
I highlighted the job above as I know from your course you feel flat roof access in unacceptable and many of your points where valid ie how do we know for sure the surface we are going to stand on can take our weight and how can this possibly be assessed accurately, I totally agree but sometimes it is still the best option
Not really, try giving Charlie Price of JVPrice a call he has MEWPs with built in hoses into the machine, designed just for the reason you mention, its about selecting the correct equipment.
OK Lets put some views on this
You have a cleaner on a step ladder in a public house
Ten feet from the ground
Dry dusting some areas using a mop
Should I hire in something safer, protect him should he fall
Or would that be safety gone mad
Your thoughts please
Regards Andy
This again was an item on your course and if I remember right the cleaner died and brewery got a very large fine. Ideally better equipment could of been used ie podium steps with built in guard rails or clean with extension poles, but just like any other piece of equipment if a step ladder was used correctly by not using top 3 steps to stand on always maintain 3 points of contact, not overstretching and it being positioned on firm level ground then a step ladder would be sufficient for the job.
Are we not going a little of subject here though after hearing many experienced window cleaners views on the pictures that where posted would you not agree WFP was the safer option, may be sunshine cleaning can put the pictures on the health and safety forum he goes on I would be really interested for him to post back their views on the matter.
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
Oh please me enlighten us mr ray of sunshine.
Anyway ill leave you to it as i cant be bothered to read your posts.
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
Oh please me enlighten us mr ray of sunshine.
Anyway ill leave you to it as i cant be bothered to read your posts.
Windiewasher
Please tell me you are not the window cleaner from Grimsby that drives around in a tatty motor with signs that are stuck on a board with letters peeling and missing, because if its you that's shocking that you have the balls to come on CIU and mock a smart professional window cleaner like Stuart, In fact how about loading up a photo of your set up. It would be nice on here to know who we are talking to in these posts.
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
Oh please me enlighten us mr ray of sunshine.
Anyway ill leave you to it as i cant be bothered to read your posts.
Windiewasher
Please tell me you are not the window cleaner from Grimsby that drives around in a tatty motor with signs that are stuck on a board with letters peeling and missing, because if its you that's shocking that you have the balls to come on CIU and mock a smart professional window cleaner like Stuart, In fact how about loading up a photo of your set up. It would be nice on here to know who we are talking to in these posts.
If this is him and his car has insurance and a current MOT why should his view be any less important than yours, both you and Suart have conveniently tried to change the subject of this thread that being the safest way to clean the windows in the pictures posted, I could put many shocking links up to show fatalities that have occurred using MEWP yet you still insist that option would be safer than using a WFP as this could drop on someone yet you fail to show any accidents where injuries have occurred from this.
I have been accused by Stuart and yourself that I do not accept reason when it is put before me so please enlighten me and every other poster to this thread or be a man and accept on this occasion you could of been mistaken.
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
Oh please me enlighten us mr ray of sunshine.
Anyway ill leave you to it as i cant be bothered to read your posts.
Windiewasher
Please tell me you are not the window cleaner from Grimsby that drives around in a tatty motor with signs that are stuck on a board with letters peeling and missing, because if its you that's shocking that you have the balls to come on CIU and mock a smart professional window cleaner like Stuart, In fact how about loading up a photo of your set up. It would be nice on here to know who we are talking to in these posts.
If this is him and his car has insurance and a current MOT why should his view be any less important than yours, both you and Suart have conveniently tried to change the subject of this thread that being the safest way to clean the windows in the pictures posted, I could put many shocking links up to show fatalities that have occurred using MEWP yet you still insist that option would be safer than using a WFP as this could drop on someone yet you fail to show any accidents where injuries have occurred from this.
I have been accused by Stuart and yourself that I do not accept reason when it is put before me so please enlighten me and every other poster to this thread or be a man and accept on this occasion you could of been mistaken.
Its not me but i will be passing the message onto the bloke who andrew is talking about.
My van has no signage at the moment.
thanks for your comments on here trevor you seem a very leved headed business man thats answers honest and sensibly.
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Windiwasher, I'm not running the FWC I'm just a member. I don't care if you join or not. However, if I was running it I would expect members to be man enough to use their real names and not hide behind a pseudonym.
What like SunShineCleaning?
+1 lol
Do you want me to explain the difference between a Pseudonym and Business name?
Oh please me enlighten us mr ray of sunshine.
Anyway ill leave you to it as i cant be bothered to read your posts.
Windiewasher
Please tell me you are not the window cleaner from Grimsby that drives around in a tatty motor with signs that are stuck on a board with letters peeling and missing, because if its you that's shocking that you have the balls to come on CIU and mock a smart professional window cleaner like Stuart, In fact how about loading up a photo of your set up. It would be nice on here to know who we are talking to in these posts.
Window cleaner snobbery gotta love it ;D ;D
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We all started the same way, clapped out estate car, dodgy sign writing, first step to becoming a millionaire, everyone has to take that first step.
For me when i started I borrowed a ladder, bought an all in one squeegee and used my rust bucket sierra sapphire, sometimes I do despair at these comments
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Escort estate for me....
What a machine.