Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian101 on July 06, 2013, 06:27:04 am
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Been using eco cover for a while but about to run out.
Are they basically all the same stuff or has anyone noticed a definate improvement with either of these ?
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Good morning Ian,
I use all if the above but I only use ecover (if you mean
On conny roofs etc) if I've ran out of viro-sol and/ or using
A customers tap
Reason being I think it take loads of rinsing to
Get all the ecover of and will waste to much from
my tank, compared to virosol which I think
Comes if quite easy
We shouldn't ever really run out of this stuff
As ecover is about £2 and viro-sol is about £7 a gallon
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G101 for me these days. Expensive, but a bit better as you can froth the stuff up into a foam on the finials and leave to soak.
Virosol is handy for dissolving insect poo,
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Like Dave my current solution of choice is g101 works
better overall than any of the other non caustic cleaners
Darran
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Ps I'd only buy the autosmart brand others tend to be a 'weaker'
Solution
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bleach and fairy
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I've moved onto virosol from ubik. I think it removes dirt a bit better but the main reason I prefer it is it doesn't matter if it drys. If you let ubik dry on glass you have got a major problem to remove it.
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virosol ian.that conny roof i cleaned yesterday came up fantastic.sorry didnt take any pics.it took me an hour.£60. ;D ;D
i bought four 5 litre tubs last year.ive still got loads left!you dont need much in a pressure sprayer.about £6-50 a tub from Aardvark cleaning supplies in warrington.
best wishes
dazmond
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When people use ecover do they mean the washing up liquid or the all purpose cleaner ?
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When people use ecover do they mean the washing up liquid or the all purpose cleaner ?
tfr
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thanks fellas gonna get some virosol :)
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Lol
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Lol
???
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this stuff is great, works a lot quicker.
Selden Maxima video can bee seen of me working with it here: -
http://youtu.be/E_1knJZyynY
can buy it here:-
http://rcpropertymaintenance.vpweb.co.uk/Cleaning-Supplies.html
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rc s your stuff any good on upvc,
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rc s your stuff any good on upvc,
works well with the gutters, soffit and fascia i have used it on.
upvc front doors and windows where those little groves are (between the frame and the piece that holds the glass in) with the green in there i have sprayed this on and brushed it off with no problem at all.
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Hi Guys, All the products i have heard mentioned on this topic are caustic and corrosive based and will cause detrimental damage to your clients surfaces, I am only sharing this from my own experiences over the years, as i have to put my hand up i also used high alkaline based cleaners for many years but i could clearly see that these harsh cleaning chemicals were causing damage to my clients surfaces from continuous use. of course the companies supplying me with these harsh cleaning chemicals never warned me about the damage they could cause as they were only worried about the sale and their bottom line.
I got so fed up of not being able to find a safer cleaning solution that i went on a misson to find safer cleaning solutions, i came across a chemist in the USA who specialized in organic chemistry and he explained to me that if you want to use safe cleaning solutions on your clients surfaces just check the ph value which is stated on the msds of the cleaning product, he suggested that if the ph value is 10 or over its highly alkaline based and safer not to use these type harsh cleaning chemicals especially if they are over 10 on the ph scale. He also recommended staying away from harsh cleaning chemicals that had a ph value of 5.5 or under as these type cleaners are acidic based and can attack surfaces but again the ones that are under 5.5 are really harmful to surfaces. For many years now we have moved away from promoting or using any of these harsh cleaning chemicals, our preferred cleaning solutions now are based on colloidal micelles technology, one of this centuries most promising advances in environmental science.
these are non-caustic,non-corrosive, and non-toxic. so not only safer for your clients surfaces, but also for your own health and safety. if you google micelles cleaning technology you will find many reputable janitorial suppliers in the UK are stocking these safe cleaning solutions. I am sure there are also other janitorial suppliers also have safer cleaning technologies available in the UK other than the harsh cleaning chemicals which are available mainstream. I know some guys wont care what they use as long as it cleans just said i would share my own thoughts from having over 30 years experience in the industry, hope that they can be of benefit to some of you.
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Hi Guys, All the products i have heard mentioned on this topic are caustic and corrosive based and will cause detrimental damage to your clients surfaces, I am only sharing this from my own experiences over the years, as i have to put my hand up i also used high alkaline based cleaners for many years but i could clearly see that these harsh cleaning chemicals were causing damage to my clients surfaces from continuous use. of course the companies supplying me with these harsh cleaning chemicals never warned me about the damage they could cause as they were only worried about the sale and their bottom line.
I got so fed up of not being able to find a safer cleaning solution that i went on a misson to find safer cleaning solutions, i came across a chemist in the USA who specialized in organic chemistry and he explained to me that if you want to use safe cleaning solutions on your clients surfaces just check the ph value which is stated on the msds of the cleaning product, he suggested that if the ph value is 10 or over its highly alkaline based and safer not to use these type harsh cleaning chemicals especially if they are over 10 on the ph scale. He also recommended staying away from harsh cleaning chemicals that had a ph value of 5.5 or under as these type cleaners are acidic based and can attack surfaces but again the ones that are under 5.5 are really harmful to surfaces. For many years now we have moved away from promoting or using any of these harsh cleaning chemicals, our preferred cleaning solutions now are based on colloidal micelles technology, one of this centuries most promising advances in environmental science.
these are non-caustic,non-corrosive, and non-toxic. so not only safer for your clients surfaces, but also for your own health and safety. if you google micelles cleaning technology you will find many reputable janitorial suppliers in the UK are stocking these safe cleaning solutions. I am sure there are also other janitorial suppliers also have safer cleaning technologies available in the UK other than the harsh cleaning chemicals which are available mainstream. I know some guys wont care what they use as long as it cleans just said i would share my own thoughts from having over 30 years experience in the industry, hope that they can be of benefit to some of you.
the one i use and selling, is used on all floor and wall types, in many kitchens and for deep cleaning food plant machinery. there is one more stronger liquid than the one i use that is used in the cleaning of the wheetabix factory machines.
After a phone call from the people that actually make it they dont see any problems with it using in in the ways for what we would use them!
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Thats my point the companies who supplied me in the past with high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals did not see any problems with using them, but as i said they have their reasons for that.
but i had plenty of problems using the high alkaline based cleaning chemicals, which is why i will never use them now. i am only sharing my thoughts here from my experience and agan with todays technologies there are plenty of safer cleaning solutions available from reputable janitorial suppliers in the UK instead of harsh/damaging high alkaline based cleaning chemicals. again hope that this can be of benefit.
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Thats my point the companies who supplied me in the past with high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals did not see any problems with using them, but as i said they have their reasons for that.
but i had plenty of problems using the high alkaline based cleaning chemicals, which is why i will never use them now. i am only sharing my thoughts here from my experience and agan with todays technologies there are plenty of safer cleaning solutions available from reputable janitorial suppliers in the UK instead of harsh/damaging high alkaline based cleaning chemicals. again hope that this can be of benefit.
guess you just went to the supplier, not to the company itself that made it and its run through there test facilities,
Selden is one of the largest chemical manufacturers, testers and reseach companies in the uk, and have several around the world.
if any of these these chemicals was unsafe to use then they wouldnt sell them nor would lots of people that use them reccommend them. no-one else has had any poblems with these chemicals before.
to be fair you run a company based on eco cleaning products so you cant really be seen prasing how good these chemicals are when you sell eco products.
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Tadgh - which one of the 'truely Eco friendly' products would be best for cleaning heavily soiled conny roofs guttering etc
Don't get so upset RC all these chemicals have some effect on the surface by their very nature they remove more than dirt even if its a microscopic amount
Darran
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To be fair many people say the cleaning industry is a dirty industry, one of the reasons for this is that most companies promote caustic,corrosive,and toxic harsh cleaning chemicals never revealing the truth about the true damage that these harsh cleaning chemicals will cause to surfaces from continuous use.
Yes its true to say i am coming from the green cleaning side of the fence. but i had to make the move because i valued my health,my clients surfaces, and finally realized after many years not to trust the big companies producing these harsh cleaning chemicals, i am happy to share my experience on this forum in the hope it can be of benefit. I am also happy to share this information under no obligation for any one to make the change for using safer cleaning solutions.
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Hi Darran, for deep cleaning conny roofs i would recommend a heavy duty degreaser based on micelles technology. dilute it 5-1 with water and pre spray the solution onto the surface, the secret to working with micelles technology is dwell time and agitation, because micelles technology is non-caustic, and non-corrosive, it will not break down the ingrained soils like high alkaline based chemicals do. but micelles solutions will not cause damage to UPVC,glass,rubbers,plastics,etc.
Again Darran if you google micelles technology you will find many suppliers in the UK.
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Thanks !
From your reply you don't supply to the uk ?
Darran
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Tadgh - which one of the 'truely Eco friendly' products would be best for cleaning heavily soiled conny roofs guttering etc
Don't get so upset RC all these chemicals have some effect on the surface by their very nature they remove more than dirt even if its a microscopic amount
Darran
im not getting upset or aything, just saying that if they do damage to things then they wont be on sale.
im just saying that the one i use is used to clean multi million pound food plant machinery, so that must be saying one thing!
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To be fair many people say the cleaning industry is a dirty industry, one of the reasons for this is that most companies promote caustic,corrosive,and toxic harsh cleaning chemicals never revealing the truth about the true damage that these harsh cleaning chemicals will cause to surfaces from continuous use.
Yes its true to say i am coming from the green cleaning side of the fence. but i had to make the move because i valued my health,my clients surfaces, and finally realized after many years not to trust the big companies producing these harsh cleaning chemicals, i am happy to share my experience on this forum in the hope it can be of benefit. I am also happy to share this information under no obligation for any one to make the change for using safer cleaning solutions.
regarding the heath and safey etc then thats going a bit far really, these are not dangerous when used by the correct people and following all the instructions. if they are that bad they wouldnt sell them.
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i think you will find ecover is non caustic and eco friendly
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Hi Darran, yes we have many clients in the UK, who use our safe to use cleaning solutions.
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Richard, i am not looking to argue with you, i am just sharing my experience of working with high alkaline based cleaning chemicals for many years, to this end i stopped trusting the big companies producing harsh cleaning chemicals many years ago as i saw first hand the damage they can cause to surfaces, i am also not saying that micelles technology is the safest cleaning technology thats available, as with todays advances in cleaning science there are many other safe cleaning technologies appearing on the market.
We are even looking at a new technology ourselves, but we will test it over 3 months to see how safe it is on a multitude of surfaces, then if we are happy we will promote it to our clients. Again Richard i have to repeat we dont trust the big companies.
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Risk Phrases
R36/38 Irritating to eyes and skin.
Safety Phrases
S2 Keep out of the reach of children., S23 Do not breathe vapour/spray., S26 In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice., S36/37/39 Wear suitable protective clothing, gloves and eye/face protection., S46 If swallowed, seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label., S51 Use only in well-ventilated areas.
Sounds like lovely stuff Richard and there is a world of difference cleaning the wetabix factory which is all 316 stainless steel and ceramic tile floors and applying it to white Upvc and clear polycarbonate panels
Darran
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Richard, i am not looking to argue with you, i am just sharing my experience of working with high alkaline based cleaning chemicals for many years, to this end i stopped trusting the big companies producing harsh cleaning chemicals many years ago as i saw first hand the damage they can cause to surfaces, i am also not saying that micelles technology is the safest cleaning technology thats available, as with todays advances in cleaning science there are many other safe cleaning technologies appearing on the market.
We are even looking at a new technology ourselves, but we will test it over 3 months to see how safe it is on a multitude of surfaces, then if we are happy we will promote it to our clients. Again Richard i have to repeat we dont trust the big companies.
im not arguing in any way, you are the only person that has had any trouble with this stuff, so maybe there was a reason behind this?? i dont know.
Selden has been going for 45 years and manufacture a wide range of specialised cleaning and maintenance chemicals for the professional cleaning, industrial and automotive markets, they have a 10+ acre site with there warehouse and reseach in the uk and several others around the world. so they know there stuff and what there products are good to be used on.
at the end of the day if they tell you that they are good for a job and they are not, then they are just as liabe for selling the product to you for that use!
this is why i spoke and deal with these as they have a high rep for cleaning agents.
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Risk Phrases
R36/38 Irritating to eyes and skin.
Safety Phrases
S2 Keep out of the reach of children., S23 Do not breathe vapour/spray., S26 In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice., S36/37/39 Wear suitable protective clothing, gloves and eye/face protection., S46 If swallowed, seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label., S51 Use only in well-ventilated areas.
Sounds like lovely stuff Richard and there is a world of difference cleaning the wetabix factory which is all 316 stainless steel and ceramic tile floors and applying it to white Upvc and clear polycarbonate panels
Darran
any cleaning product that you buy has this sort of warning, its called covering there bum! lol
and its not just floor tiles they use it on, its the machines that makes the wetabix too! so food safe!! lol
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i think pure water does a good job :)
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now look at the COSHH of UBIK 2000
risk phrases:- R38: irritating to skin, R41 Risk of serious damage to eyes
Saftey phrases:- S24/25 Avoid contact with skin and eyes, S64 If swallowed, rinse mouth with water (only if the person is conscious)
so thats got worse risks than the one i use! at least mine wont send you blind if you get it in your eyes!
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I don't use ubik ;D
The point is all these chemicals are pretty much the same just slight adjustments in the ingredients
All will clean Upvc but all contain limited amounts of nasty stuff that over time will rot and ruin plastic ( this could take years for all I know )
But there are friendlier alternatives, less likely to damage plastic which is what tadgh was politely trying to point out.
If you have an in grained stain all these products mentioned will not completely remove the mark you need a restorer which like t-cut removes some of the surface and like t cut on a car use it too often and you'll have no paint left on your car, but its perfectly safe too use - think about it
Darran
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I don't use ubik ;D
The point is all these chemicals are pretty much the same just slight adjustments in the ingredients
All will clean Upvc but all contain limited amounts of nasty stuff that over time will rot and ruin plastic ( this could take years for all I know )
But there are friendlier alternatives, less likely to damage plastic which is what tadgh was politely trying to point out.
If you have an in grained stain all these products mentioned will not completely remove the mark you need a restorer which like t-cut removes some of the surface and like t cut on a car use it too often and you'll have no paint left on your car, but its perfectly safe too use - think about it
Darran
i agree, there are eco products that are friendlier etc,
Tadgh was putting it across in a way a sales man would say, by saying that all the others are not safe to use and the eco ones he deals with are the only safe ones to use. everything on the market is safe to use, otherwise it wont be allowed to sell them.
as for the T-Cut is a bit of a poor example as this is disigned to take a small lay of paint off, so yes if you keep using it will casue damage.
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Hi Richard, i have never used the product you mentioned, but i did look at the msds and can guarantee you its a product that will never be used by any of our staff to clean our clients surfaces.
Just a bit of advice for you Richard, a customer is someone you might do business with on just a one off.
A client is someone who develops trust with you and you do business with them on a regular basis.
One of the reasons we stopped using high alkaline based cleaning chemicals many years ago was because we noticed first hand the damage they were causing to our clients surfaces as we were cleaning them on a regular basis, you will not notice the damage on one off cleans, as its from continuous use that these high alkaline based cleaning chemicals cause the detrimental damage. As i mentioned earlier we value our health and that of our staff plus our clients surfaces.
I am just sharing my experience in the hope that it can be of benefit to others, as i have picked up many helpful tips and techniques from other members on the CIU forum.
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Virosol all day long for me.
Andy ;)
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Hi Richard, i have never used the product you mentioned, but i did look at the msds and can guarantee you its a product that will never be used by any of our staff to clean our clients surfaces.
Just a bit of advice for you Richard, a customer is someone you might do business with on just a one off.
A client is someone who develops trust with you and you do business with them on a regular basis.
One of the reasons we stopped using high alkaline based cleaning chemicals many years ago was because we noticed first hand the damage they were causing to our clients surfaces as we were cleaning them on a regular basis, you will not notice the damage on one off cleans, as its from continuous use that these high alkaline based cleaning chemicals cause the detrimental damage. As i mentioned earlier we value our health and that of our staff plus our clients surfaces.
I am just sharing my experience in the hope that it can be of benefit to others, as i have picked up many helpful tips and techniques from other members on the CIU forum.
if the products was causing damage to surfaces then they maybe was being used wrongly and maybe at the wrong dilution, or even just the wrong product because you got told it was great without looking into it. i also have clients not just customers as you put it and no damage has been cause by any of the other products i use, plus work along side several large cleaning compaines that i talk about cleaning products with and they have had no reported problems with theres products or surfaces.
i also have a high H&S thats why i always make sure anyone that is using the stuff with me at any time has read up, and knows how to use chemicals etc,
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OK Richard, i have been in the industry for over 30 years and as i said i was happy to share my experience of working with high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals. why not lets agree to disagree on this one.
As the saying goes A PERSON CHANGED AGAINST THEIR WILL IS OF THE SAME OPINION STILL.
I certainly dont want people thinking that i am ramming advice down their throats.
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OK Richard, i have been in the industry for over 30 years and as i said i was happy to share my experience of working with high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals. why not lets agree to disagree on this one.
As the saying goes A PERSON CHANGED AGAINST THEIR WILL IS OF THE SAME OPINION STILL.
I certainly dont want people thinking that i am ramming advice down their throats.
yer thats fine, but so far in the 16 years that i have had dealing with cleaning products, not at much as you as i wasnt using them day in day out personally, but in the workplace there have been used for years with no problems. you are the only one that i have heard of that has had problems with damaged surfaces thats all, just intrested why that could of been? was the wrong products being used on things? or if you had to mix you own with water then was the mixing right? finding out these could help others too. not saying it was user error or chemical error.
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Lets put this in some perspective :)
These chemicals we use are used maybe once in a year on a conservatory roof or a first clean or someones fascias, soffits or gutters which the normal practice is to rinse all remnants of the chemical off. Its not as if we are using the chemicals as part of our everyday maintenance cleans, imo I think there is a bit of scaremongory going on and as I've said needs to be put in some perspective in to just how much we use these chemicals on our customers properties.
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Lets put this in some perspective :)
These chemicals we use are used maybe once in a year on a conservatory roof or a first clean or someones fascias, soffits or gutters which the normal practice is to rinse all remnants of the chemical off. Its not as if we are using the chemicals as part of our everyday maintenance cleans, imo I think there is a bit of scaremongory going on and as I've said needs to be put in some perspective in to just how much we use these chemicals on our customers properties.
thats so true!
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Hi Richard, one of the reasons we stopped trusting the big chemical producing companies was because they informed us for many years that their chemicals were safe to use, this is not so true when you look into further the caustic and corrosive ingredients that they use to produce their harsh cleaning chemicals, We took on faith for many years their reps advice that their products were safe and effective, yes they were effective alright in causing detrimental damage to our clients surfaces. It took us many years to cop on to their crapology and this is why we would never trust these large companies who have huge budgets for marketing and can fool many people in the industry. Just look at the largest selling cleaning brand on the domestic market in Europe (i will just use the word BANG) these companies spend millions on their advertising campaigns but never worry about the damage their harsh cleaning chemicals cause to surfaces. That is why i would always recommend to check the msds for any product you are going to use on clients surfaces.
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Hi Richard, one of the reasons we stopped trusting the big chemical producing companies was because they informed us for many years that their chemicals were safe to use, this is not so true when you look into further the caustic and corrosive ingredients that they use to produce their harsh cleaning chemicals, We took on faith for many years their reps advice that their products were safe and effective, yes they were effective alright in causing detrimental damage to our clients surfaces. It took us many years to cop on to their crapology and this is why we would never trust these large companies who have huge budgets for marketing and can fool many people in the industry. Just look at the largest selling cleaning brand on the domestic market in Europe (i will just use the word BANG) these companies spend millions on their advertising campaigns but never worry about the damage their harsh cleaning chemicals cause to surfaces. That is why i would always recommend to check the msds for any product you are going to use on clients surfaces.
so you are saying that it was the companies fault for selling chemicals that are unsafe and they damage surfaces and not user error or wrong products used?
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OK Richard, lets be fair i have shared my experience from using high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals which are produced by many of the larger chemical manufactures in our industry. i have shared my experiences in the hope that it can be of benefit to others on this forum as i have picked up many shared experiences from other members on the CIU forum which have been of benefit to our company. I have spelt out my findings and to be fair its up to each person which cleaning products they prefer to use.
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G101 - first words on the label NON CAUSTIC
Surely if a company produces a cosh sheet and lie about the product then they will be open for prosecution?
have you read the Coshh sheet for this it says:-
risk phrases:- R38: irritating to skin, R41 Risk of serious damage to eyes
Saftey phrases:- S24/25 Avoid contact with skin and eyes, S64 If swallowed, rinse mouth with water (only if the person is conscious)
so thats another one that has got worse risk than the one i use! at least mine wont send you blind if you get it in your eyes!
but yes if the COSHH sheet is wrong then they could be open for prosecution.
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Yes, I read it but I deleted the post after. It was aimed at Tadge wotshisname originally but then I thought - can't be bothered with this. ;D
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OK Richard, lets be fair i have shared my experience from using high alkaline based harsh cleaning chemicals which are produced by many of the larger chemical manufactures in our industry. i have shared my experiences in the hope that it can be of benefit to others on this forum as i have picked up many shared experiences from other members on the CIU forum which have been of benefit to our company. I have spelt out my findings and to be fair its up to each person which cleaning products they prefer to use.
yes you have siad that these ones are bad and has damage to things, so you say, but not answered or said anything else to back it up, and pushed your products! only word that pops up is sales man!!!!! like i said your the only one that has ever had these problems to my knowledge.
if you want to share experience then tell us more about what went wrong for you?
what was damaged? how was it? was it user error? using the wrong chemical on the surface?
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Yes, I read it but I deleted the post after. It was aimed at Tadge wotshisname originally but then I thought - can't be bothered with this. ;D
lol well it is a monday morning! lol ;D