Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 02:07:35 pm

Title: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 02:07:35 pm
The FWC has a membership of 950 ish, we now have 10% of that total on our FWCSOS page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/

Please join and have your say, I have no axe to grind with the FWC, I simply want to make it something that your average window cleaner can benefit from.

Check out the blog as well

http://www.fwcsos.com/blog.html
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: PoleKing on July 04, 2013, 03:45:52 pm
What are you hoping to achieve from it bud?
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 04:07:56 pm
A trade organization most window cleaners will join.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 04, 2013, 04:14:41 pm
Imagine you had a magic wand and could produce a trade association that you wanted.

What would it look like?  How would it be ran?  Why should we join it?  I can't think of what I'd want from a trade association.  We're not like some pharmaceutical business; we're generally left alone from government departments as long as we comply with health 'n' safety regulations (in some fashion).

Maybe it's because I don't understand, but I'd struggle to come up with a concept of a trade association I'd want to join.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 04:28:10 pm
Imagine you had a magic wand and could produce a trade association that you wanted.

What would it look like?  How would it be ran?  Why should we join it?  I can't think of what I'd want from a trade association.  We're not like some pharmaceutical business; we're generally left alone from government departments as long as we comply with health 'n' safety regulations (in some fashion).

Maybe it's because I don't understand, but I'd struggle to come up with a concept of a trade association I'd want to join.



I'd say I can live without you, but I know its not true......
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 04:35:48 pm
Imagine you had a magic wand and could produce a trade association that you wanted.

What would it look like?  How would it be ran?  Why should we join it?  I can't think of what I'd want from a trade association.  We're not like some pharmaceutical business; we're generally left alone from government departments as long as we comply with health 'n' safety regulations (in some fashion).

Maybe it's because I don't understand, but I'd struggle to come up with a concept of a trade association I'd want to join.

As it stands what would you be willing to pay to join?
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 04, 2013, 04:38:17 pm
No, seriously, I don't think these posts get much of a reaction because many people are like me; we can't see the relevance.

From another post:

Looking from the outside - In My initial feeling is that there seems to be a communication issue between the FWC and its membership. I like the OBR post to join a trade group each business needs a compelling reason.

Ian has just about nailed it here - his observation is sharp - although I think it could go further; there is a communication issue between the FWC and it's potential members.  Yeh, we see the website, the list of benefits don't really look that honest, or they're vague; and we're window cleaners; not stupid (most of us anyway).


Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 04, 2013, 04:39:29 pm
As it stands what would you be willing to pay to join?

As it stands, it doesn't look expensive for the likes of me to join; the cost of membership isn't really the issue for me.  What's the point of membership is more the issue.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
As it stands what would you be willing to pay to join?

As it stands, it doesn't look expensive for the likes of me to join; the cost of membership isn't really the issue for me.  What's the point of membership is more the issue.

I was really asking what value would you put on it.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Don Kee on July 04, 2013, 06:49:05 pm
As it stands what would you be willing to pay to join?

As it stands, it doesn't look expensive for the likes of me to join; the cost of membership isn't really the issue for me.  What's the point of membership is more the issue.

I was really asking what value would you put on it.


If the item/service for sale isn't wanted or has no relevance to the intended audience then it has no value - not necessarily my opinion but i think thats what tosh is saying??
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 04, 2013, 09:54:28 pm
As it stands what would you be willing to pay to join?

As it stands, it doesn't look expensive for the likes of me to join; the cost of membership isn't really the issue for me.  What's the point of membership is more the issue.

I was really asking what value would you put on it.


If the item/service for sale isn't wanted or has no relevance to the intended audience then it has no value - not necessarily my opinion but i think thats what tosh is saying??

Yes, spot on; thanks.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 04, 2013, 10:48:30 pm
That's fine.

So the FWC  is so irrelevant that its not even worth joining for free?
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 04, 2013, 11:58:32 pm
That's fine.

So the FWC  is so irrelevant that its not even worth joining for free?

Maybe?

Why doesn't someone from the FWC committee try educating us on the benefits or on what they do; why they need our support?  I mean the list of member's benefits on their website is daft; seriously.

I mean let's look at the top two:

Quote
Representation of a government recognised Trade Association

Business investment into an independent non-profit organisation

I can see they've used some nice little buzz words like 'representation' and 'investment'; but what does that actually mean?  Why do we need representing?  What do they do when they represent us?  How often do they represent us and over what issues?

And how is it a 'business investment'?  Not once in ten years has any potential customer asked me, "Are you a member of the FWC?"  A Gardiner's pole is a real and tangible business investment; it's good quality, it's does what it says on the tin; it enables me to turnover a profit.  How does being a member of FWC make it a good 'business investment'?  

Or is it just a bunch of glamorous sounding words to impress a dull window cleaner into joining?  That's not a dig; I really don't know.

This forum has got to be the biggest and best place for their potential new clientèle - so why don't they get involved here and educate us on why we should be members of the FWC, because I really don't know why I should, and I suspect there's many others like me.

Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 07:02:22 am
It has been suggested several times that they join the forums, have their own or even a section on CIU. They have refused all 3 suggestions.

Again its a communication issue.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: AuRavelling79 on July 05, 2013, 07:17:07 am
It has been suggested several times that they join the forums, have their own or even a section on CIU. They have refused all 3 suggestions.

Again its a communication issue.

Might it be that what they have to communicate doesn't chime with many on here? Bit like Ionics or Brodex? Or ex-members who "try" but can't take the banter and cut and thrust of forum life? So they withdraw.

Could it be it's because they remember the "Phil Hanson" episodes; knowing that the sharp and scintillating minds of CIU will believe their cosy raison d'etre? is survival at worst, £ sterling, jollies and self-importance at best?

Maybe it's a "business decision" taking the principle of Matthew Ch7 v 6?  ;)
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 07:35:40 am
You swine, Gold
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Moderator David@stives on July 05, 2013, 07:42:03 am
Sunshine

10% non paying members, hardly a comparison

 no axe to grind, really?
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 08:07:06 am
Sunshine

10% non paying members, hardly a comparison

 no axe to grind, really?


I don't even have a grindstone David. I have no previous argument with them.
 Also I think 10% is a good comparison in just a few days we are seeing a conversation about what is good for the industry by people who want representation but don't feel they get it.


At the end of the day the FWC represent all window cleaners whether subs are paid or not.


Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 05, 2013, 08:50:47 am
Are you on the committee, David, just out of interest?  Or do you want to be on the committee?  In a previous post you said that you didn't think they were doing a lot wrong, which is a fair one, but there's an old dit about someone who never made mistakes never making anything.

What is it that they're doing that's right?
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Moderator David@stives on July 05, 2013, 09:02:14 am
Hi Tosh

I have no part in the FWC, i am just a paying member

What are they doing right ? most of the things in this link

http://www.taforum.org/creating-a-new-trade-association
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 05, 2013, 09:18:03 am
Hi Tosh

I have no part in the FWC, i am just a paying member

What are they doing right ? most of the things in this link

http://www.taforum.org/creating-a-new-trade-association

Hmmmm.  I skimmed that link; it just talks about when to start a new trade association; not one that's been in existence since 1947!!???

You sure you posted the correct link?  It doesn't look relevant to me.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 09:24:12 am
A quote from the link:

"Membership

A trade association should be open to every company in the sector. The greater the membership in terms of both number of members and percentage of market covered the more credibility (and money) the trade association will have. A new or existing trade association should be very careful before rejecting any applications for membership as they could lay themselves open to legal action. In the short term the best policy is to accept into membership any organisation operating in the sector unless the association is being set up specifically for companies that subscribe to a particular code of practice or professional standard."

900 members and an estimated 80,000 window cleaners.
You make a good point for a new FED.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Tom White on July 05, 2013, 09:29:45 am
900 members and an estimated 80,000 window cleaners.

Some estimates of the numbers of UK window cleaners are in the 180,000 mark.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 10:09:21 am
900 members and an estimated 80,000 window cleaners.

Some estimates of the numbers of UK window cleaners are in the 180,000 mark.

I saw that, if true its not representative of the industry.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 05, 2013, 12:19:31 pm
http://www.fwcsos.com/1/post/2013/07/too-many-chiefs.html
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: CleanClear on July 05, 2013, 11:49:37 pm
It has been suggested several times that they join the forums, have their own or even a section on CIU. They have refused all 3 suggestions.

Again its a communication issue.

Thats a cracking starting point for someone who is going to have dialouge with potential and existing members and put their points across a huge variety of platforms.
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: Susan Dean (1stclean) on July 06, 2013, 12:02:58 am
it will be like the carpet cleaning ones full of know alls banging on about training and the more training you pay for buy them the better you become  ;D

when in the real world , theres guys and girls out there that have been doing the jobs longer and better that's never done any training just learnt off the skills handed down from the years ,

 but because there no in the click there cowboys lol for this reason I am out
Title: Re: 10%
Post by: trevor perry on July 06, 2013, 08:10:54 am
it will be like the carpet cleaning ones full of know alls banging on about training and the more training you pay for buy them the better you become  ;D

when in the real world , theres guys and girls out there that have been doing the jobs longer and better that's never done any training just learnt off the skills handed down from the years ,

 but because there no in the click there cowboys lol for this reason I am out

 got to admit that is what I am fearfull of happening, although the FWC is not perfect I do think they come into action when needed ie when a drought order was threatening our work