Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: windiewasher on June 28, 2013, 12:08:57 am
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Not see them on here for a while.
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can you blame um :(
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can you blame um :(
Why?
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
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Has the funding run out?
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Has the funding run out?
I heard they was cutting the funding but he said they would carry on stronger if funding was cut.
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So many on here saying how fantastic the training was.
Until they had to pay for it ;D
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So many on here saying how fantastic the training was.
Until they had to pay for it ;D
+1. what a crock
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To be fair I THINK Most nvq funding, for anyone who is looking to do a qualification 5 years after they did gcse's etc, has been cut not just impact43.
Think the cut of date is august....
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The window cleaning outfit are now called http://www.washforce.co.uk/Lincoln/ (http://www.washforce.co.uk/Lincoln/) ???
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It would also appear that they've bought a franchise.....
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The window cleaning outfit are now called http://www.washforce.co.uk/Lincoln/ (http://www.washforce.co.uk/Lincoln/) ???
I see there offering franchises too.what happened to clean and safe?
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Like Neil said "got bought out" i think
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Like Neil said "got bought out" i think
Oh dear thought they were allegedly a big fish.
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
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Has the funding run out?
Stops in July
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Has the funding run out?
I heard they was cutting the funding but he said they would carry on stronger if funding was cut.
100%
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It would also appear that they've bought a franchise.....
Incorrect
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Like Neil said "got bought out" i think
Incorrect
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Like Neil said "got bought out" i think
Oh dear thought they were allegedly a big fish.
Just two young hard working smart window cleaners
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Just sums up why Andrew doesn't come on here
You lot need to get your facts rights,like old women that want a bit of gossip
Sad lives
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To be fair I THINK Most nvq funding, for anyone who is looking to do a qualification 5 years after they did gcse's etc, has been cut not just impact43.
Think the cut of date is august....
All but a couple of select industries still have funding, I am glad so many window cleaning companies grabbed it whilst it was there, we have enjoyed the last Five years and I like to think the companies who attended have made good use of it.
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To be fair I THINK Most nvq funding, for anyone who is looking to do a qualification 5 years after they did gcse's etc, has been cut not just impact43.
Think the cut of date is august....
All but a couple of select industries still have funding, I am glad so many window cleaning companies grabbed it whilst it was there, we have enjoyed the last Five years and I like to think the companies who attended have made good use of it.
I did thank you :)
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I grabbed it while it was there - but got frustrated that I would send some one on a day's course, only for him to turn up at the side of the van at 2 o'clock in the afternoon !! Had lunch did 30 mins and sent home !!
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I grabbed it while it was there - but got frustrated that I would send some one on a day's course, only for him to turn up at the side of the van at 2 o'clock in the afternoon !! Had lunch did 30 mins and sent home !!
Andrew Hi, This would not have been an Impact course? We have over the last Five years had a couple of dates where window cleaners got the wrong date? Can you give me a call please 07749 704671 Would like to establish more information. Thanks Andy
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To be fair I THINK Most nvq funding, for anyone who is looking to do a qualification 5 years after they did gcse's etc, has been cut not just impact43.
Think the cut of date is august....
All but a couple of select industries still have funding, I am glad so many window cleaning companies grabbed it whilst it was there, we have enjoyed the last Five years and I like to think the companies who attended have made good use of it.
I did thank you :)
and me :D
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can youngsters of 16,17 go on your new ladder course? be intrested if you are
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Why Thank you Andrew, Its very kind of you to state that most of my posts are incorrect.
As I said in my post I was not sure on this occasion just repeating what I had heard.
As for all my other incorrect posts perhaps you could enlighten me? If there are any to do with safety then I am sorry but as it was you who trained me maybe you should not have passed me. Oh but then you would not have been paid would you.
I resent the fact that you come on here and say my posts are not correct. so unless you can prove that's at least 50% of my posts (that would be most?) then perhaps a public apology is in order! ;)
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Neil
Your posts are incorrect as stated, never seen an apology from you ?
It was you talking about them, not the other way around, so in my book they owe you nothing.
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Neil
Your posts are incorrect as stated, never seen an apology from you ?
It was you talking about them, not the other way around, so in my book they owe you nothing.
My POSTS!!!!
Perhaps both you and Andrew would be kind enough to enlighten me WHICH posts are incorrect!
By postS you imply more than one, My above post clearly states I heard from a friend so therefore was not certain of my information.
So which of my other posts would you like me to qualify?
Oh and the "apology" reference would have been understood by Andrew ;)
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The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen. When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.
We can all be thankful, because if it were up to him we'd all be courdoning off the whole area every every time we used waterfed poles.
Remember this thread? I finally, after much coaxing, got him to admit that he thought (and said so in a magazine article) that window cleaners should be courdoning off when using poles.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all)
He is the enemy of the window cleaner, because he would quite happily see us all put under ridiculous regulations just to further his own interest - which was training.
Most people here were quite rightly outraged by what he said, and the amazing response of forum admin to that thread was a classic;
(http://i43.tinypic.com/5l2a6u.jpg)
He's paid to advertise so nobody challenge him.
Well I see he's not advertising now (our taxes not paying for it anymore you see), does this mean it's now ok to point out that he hasn't got a clue?
Good riddance I say, I just wish someone hadn't summoned him back again. Maybe he'll come up with another totally mis-interpreted and impractical thing he thinks window cleaners should have to do, just so he can charge them for training.
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The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen. When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.
We can all be thankful, because if it were up to him we'd all be courdoning off the whole area every every time we used waterfed poles.
Remember this thread? I finally, after much coaxing, got him to admit that he thought (and said so in a magazine article) that window cleaners should be courdoning off when using poles.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all)
He is the enemy of the window cleaner, because he would quite happily see us all put under ridiculous regulations just to further his own interest - which was training.
Most people here were quite rightly outraged by what he said, and the amazing response of forum admin to that thread was a classic;
(http://i43.tinypic.com/5l2a6u.jpg)
He's paid to advertise so nobody challenge him.
Well I see he's not advertising now (our taxes not paying for it anymore you see), does this mean it's now ok to point out that he hasn't got a clue?
Good riddance I say, I just wish someone hadn't summoned him back again. Maybe he'll come up with another totally mis-interpreted and impractical thing he thinks window cleaners should have to do, just so he can charge them for training.
Pretty much- bang on!! ;D ;D ;D
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Neil
Your posts are incorrect as stated, never seen an apology from you ?
It was you talking about them, not the other way around, so in my book they owe you nothing.
My POSTS!!!!
Perhaps both you and Andrew would be kind enough to enlighten me WHICH posts are incorrect!
By postS you imply more than one, My above post clearly states I heard from a friend so therefore was not certain of my information.
So which of my other posts would you like me to qualify?
Oh and the "apology" reference would have been understood by Andrew ;)
Neil,
You have my mobile number
You want to put posts on here about Impact
David or Micks business with the content you have posted
I suggest ring us and I would have put you straight
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The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen. When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.
We can all be thankful, because if it were up to him we'd all be courdoning off the whole area every every time we used waterfed poles.
Remember this thread? I finally, after much coaxing, got him to admit that he thought (and said so in a magazine article) that window cleaners should be courdoning off when using poles.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all)
He is the enemy of the window cleaner, because he would quite happily see us all put under ridiculous regulations just to further his own interest - which was training.
Most people here were quite rightly outraged by what he said, and the amazing response of forum admin to that thread was a classic;
(http://i43.tinypic.com/5l2a6u.jpg)
He's paid to advertise so nobody challenge him.
Well I see he's not advertising now (our taxes not paying for it anymore you see), does this mean it's now ok to point out that he hasn't got a clue?
Good riddance I say, I just wish someone hadn't summoned him back again. Maybe he'll come up with another totally mis-interpreted and impractical thing he thinks window cleaners should have to do, just so he can charge them for training.
Nick
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge why not attend one of our final workshops and get a chance to question the information I provide face to face
Instead of coming on here and always running Impact down
Would it not be better to actually have something valid to say
If I am wrong your have a field day
Any day you attend would be free training
Not funded
My mobile number is 07749 704671
Regards
Andy
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The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen. When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.
We can all be thankful, because if it were up to him we'd all be courdoning off the whole area every every time we used waterfed poles.
Remember this thread? I finally, after much coaxing, got him to admit that he thought (and said so in a magazine article) that window cleaners should be courdoning off when using poles.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161191.0;all)
He is the enemy of the window cleaner, because he would quite happily see us all put under ridiculous regulations just to further his own interest - which was training.
Most people here were quite rightly outraged by what he said, and the amazing response of forum admin to that thread was a classic;
(http://i43.tinypic.com/5l2a6u.jpg)
He's paid to advertise so nobody challenge him.
Well I see he's not advertising now (our taxes not paying for it anymore you see), does this mean it's now ok to point out that he hasn't got a clue?
Good riddance I say, I just wish someone hadn't summoned him back again. Maybe he'll come up with another totally mis-interpreted and impractical thing he thinks window cleaners should have to do, just so he can charge them for training.
Pretty much- bang on!! ;D ;D ;D
Sorry don't know your name
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge why not attend one of our final workshops and get a chance to question the information I provide face to face
Instead of coming on here and always running Impact down
Would it not be better to actually have something valid to say
If I am wrong your have a field day
Any day you attend would be free training
Not funded
My mobile number is 07749 704671
Regards
Andy
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Neil
Your posts are incorrect as stated, never seen an apology from you ?
It was you talking about them, not the other way around, so in my book they owe you nothing.
My POSTS!!!!
Perhaps both you and Andrew would be kind enough to enlighten me WHICH posts are incorrect!
By postS you imply more than one, My above post clearly states I heard from a friend so therefore was not certain of my information.
So which of my other posts would you like me to qualify?
Oh and the "apology" reference would have been understood by Andrew ;)
Neil,
You have my mobile number
You want to put posts on here about Impact
David or Micks business with the content you have posted
I suggest ring us and I would have put you straight
Andrew
If I was interested or felt it affected me in any way I would have called, you know that as I have done so in the past.
But the fact is I am not even slightly interested what clean safe or whoever they may be now are up to. And I have had no dealing with Impact43 for years so as far as I know they may be teaching primary school kids how to cross the road safely. I really don't know or care.
I did not slander anyone, as I clearly stated I was merely repeating what I had heard, isn't that after all what this forum is all about?
It would appear not in the case of certain individuals and I for one get a bit sick of it.
If I cant come on a forum and say what I feel or what I have heard, and if my posts are to be referred to as incorrect by the moderators then I see no point whatsoever in my being on here.
So I am out. Thank you and goodbye
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Nick
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge why not attend one of our final workshops and get a chance to question the information I provide face to face
Instead of coming on here and always running Impact down
Would it not be better to actually have something valid to say
If I am wrong your have a field day
Any day you attend would be free training
Not funded
My mobile number is 07749 704671
Regards
Andy
My, what a generous invitation from Andy Willis. "please stop pointing out awkward things that I have said in public"
As for this sentence...
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge
I don't really understand what you mean? I AM sure that you said that window cleaners should be cordoning off the area when using waterfed poles. That isn't a matter of opinion, you DID say that. It was published in a magazine.
In case you forget, it was in the September 2012 Issue of Tomorrow's Cleaning magazine, page 71.
Here are your exact words:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2q9lah5.jpg)
Anybody can read what you said here:
http://content.yudu.com/A1ycbp/TCSept2012/resources/3.htm (http://content.yudu.com/A1ycbp/TCSept2012/resources/3.htm)
And when I challenged you about this, asking if you you thought window cleaners using poles should be courdoning off the area in order to comply with the law, (after some dodging the question) you said YES.
We all remember it
It was the day you lost all credibility on this forum and in the window cleaning industry generally. It clearly proves that you will say anything to try and further your own interests of pushing training, even claiming that the law requires something that it certainly does NOT.
You would happily see us all put under totally impractical and unworkable regulation if it meant more money for you in terms of training.
It's no exaggeration to say that you are the enemy of the window cleaner.
I don't need to speak to you face-to-face, it is completely obvious what you are doing and what your agenda is. It's public, because you made it so by what you said in that magazine, so it's no use you trying to keep the lid on it now with your constant requests to discuss it face-to-face blah blah.
Your own words are the problem, in particular, this:
"So what happens if a cleaner drops a pole onto a member of the public? Regulation 10 of the Work at Height Legislation covers falling objects and makes it clear that in order to fully comply with the law, a safety one should be demarcated, ideally including cones tape or barriers."
We all know this is totally incorrect, and is you scare mongering to get people to come on your amazing training course.
The last time you couldn't cope with people pointing out these uncomfortable things, you decided to do what most people do when they lose all credibility, to delete their account and disappear. Well, it's that time again...
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I for one am very glad they posted here when they did. It enabled me and my colleages to get some free valuable training. Prior to that i had read some negative stuff here about them. which turned out to be untrue. I've no idea why people are negative towards them. They seem pretty good guys to me. Some of you need to get a grip. They're just ordinary guys who are clued up on the legal side of things, and of course the practical and they get paid to pass the info on. WHats the big deal? It should go without saying that the reason they aint posting so much now is that they are not offering the free courses that attracted many of us. They did point out that the funding would come to an end. And now people are complaining they aint posting? ;D ;D
Looks to me like they can't win no matter what they do someone will pick a fault. And as we all know, of course its Impact43's fault if someone falls over your hose and makes a claim against you. Imagine if they never told us that possibility? They'd be the biggest cowboys ever. But someone somehow has construed that its Impact43's fault for this.
There's a lot of muppets on here. The only thing that suprises me is that Andrew Willis answers them !!
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Just sums up why Andrew doesn't come on here
You lot need to get your facts rights,like old women that want a bit of gossip
Sad lives
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eqVlTr-1Lhw/TywMnJjL95I/AAAAAAAAAv0/VsnnyJGc3_Y/s1600/LesDawsonDrag_306x325.jpg)
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I for one am very glad they posted here when they did. It enabled me and my colleages to get some free valuable training. Prior to that i had read some negative stuff here about them. which turned out to be untrue. I've no idea why people are negative towards them. They seem pretty good guys to me. Some of you need to get a grip. They're just ordinary guys who are clued up on the legal side of things, and of course the practical and they get paid to pass the info on. WHats the big deal? It should go without saying that the reason they aint posting so much now is that they are not offering the free courses that attracted many of us. They did point out that the funding would come to an end. And now people are complaining they aint posting? ;D ;D
Looks to me like they can't win no matter what they do someone will pick a fault. And as we all know, of course its Impact43's fault if someone falls over your hose and makes a claim against you. Imagine if they never told us that possibility? They'd be the biggest cowboys ever. But someone somehow has construed that its Impact43's fault for this.
There's a lot of muppets on here. The only thing that suprises me is that Andrew Willis answers them !!
Well said
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Nick
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge why not attend one of our final workshops and get a chance to question the information I provide face to face
Instead of coming on here and always running Impact down
Would it not be better to actually have something valid to say
If I am wrong your have a field day
Any day you attend would be free training
Not funded
My mobile number is 07749 704671
Regards
Andy
My, what a generous invitation from Andy Willis. "please stop pointing out awkward things that I have said in public"
As for this sentence...
If you are so sure about you experience and knowledge
I don't really understand what you mean? I AM sure that you said that window cleaners should be cordoning off the area when using waterfed poles. That isn't a matter of opinion, you DID say that. It was published in a magazine.
In case you forget, it was in the September 2012 Issue of Tomorrow's Cleaning magazine, page 71.
Here are your exact words:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2q9lah5.jpg)
Anybody can read what you said here:
http://content.yudu.com/A1ycbp/TCSept2012/resources/3.htm (http://content.yudu.com/A1ycbp/TCSept2012/resources/3.htm)
And when I challenged you about this, asking if you you thought window cleaners using poles should be courdoning off the area in order to comply with the law, (after some dodging the question) you said YES.
We all remember it
It was the day you lost all credibility on this forum and in the window cleaning industry generally. It clearly proves that you will say anything to try and further your own interests of pushing training, even claiming that the law requires something that it certainly does NOT.
You would happily see us all put under totally impractical and unworkable regulation if it meant more money for you in terms of training.
It's no exaggeration to say that you are the enemy of the window cleaner.
I don't need to speak to you face-to-face, it is completely obvious what you are doing and what your agenda is. It's public, because you made it so by what you said in that magazine, so it's no use you trying to keep the lid on it now with your constant requests to discuss it face-to-face blah blah.
Your own words are the problem, in particular, this:
"So what happens if a cleaner drops a pole onto a member of the public? Regulation 10 of the Work at Height Legislation covers falling objects and makes it clear that in order to fully comply with the law, a safety one should be demarcated, ideally including cones tape or barriers."
We all know this is totally incorrect, and is you scare mongering to get people to come on your amazing training course.
The last time you couldn't cope with people pointing out these uncomfortable things, you decided to do what most people do when they lose all credibility, to delete their account and disappear. Well, it's that time again...
Nick, the only times I have left this forum is when a small number of CIU members decided to make personal comments about IMPACT and or Willis family
I basic left to stop me getting into a position of taking them to court.
The fact is and has increased you cant just come on a forum and say what you like
If your unsure about this go and get some legal advice on that one.
Look the facts are in the article
Go and look at this legislation and read it
I dont dodge questions
Its just to be fair is complicated,
If you are cleaning a residential house you are unlikely to have to cordon off your work area, but you will be dynamically risk assessing the area and within this you would be making a call on what controls you need, basically your duty is you can work safely and that others can not be harmed by your actions, so if you assess that you may be able to drop a pole on someone than you may need to consider some controls
Commercial much bigger challenge
look i don't preach in our workshops, we get a huge amount of experienced window cleaners and new starters etc come through, these items are covered in a information and discus fashion, i let candidates attending make up their minds on the information provided. One thing for sure Nick is that the law needs to be made clear, you can only work safely if it is clear to you, My offer for you to attend is up to you, buy surely if all you have to give up is a couple of days then would you not like to come on here and say what a load of crap that Andy Willis goes on about in his workshops.
One final question for you, there are a lot of CIU forum members on here that have come to our workshops, why don't we get posts from them saying what a waste of time it was?
Give me a call if you want to discus any of the above or attend 07749 704671
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I for one am very glad they posted here when they did. It enabled me and my colleages to get some free valuable training. Prior to that i had read some negative stuff here about them. which turned out to be untrue. I've no idea why people are negative towards them. They seem pretty good guys to me. Some of you need to get a grip. They're just ordinary guys who are clued up on the legal side of things, and of course the practical and they get paid to pass the info on. WHats the big deal? It should go without saying that the reason they aint posting so much now is that they are not offering the free courses that attracted many of us. They did point out that the funding would come to an end. And now people are complaining they aint posting? ;D ;D
Looks to me like they can't win no matter what they do someone will pick a fault. And as we all know, of course its Impact43's fault if someone falls over your hose and makes a claim against you. Imagine if they never told us that possibility? They'd be the biggest cowboys ever. But someone somehow has construed that its Impact43's fault for this.
There's a lot of muppets on here. The only thing that suprises me is that Andrew Willis answers them !!
Well said
I am thankful for the course and the training.
I have just been through 6 months of jumping through various hoops successfully gaining a contract for over 300 brand new flats with another 170 to come.
One of the major factors that convinced a sceptical contracts manager to continue working with us was the training record we were able to submit.
Semantics - whether or not the training was "valid."
It worked for us and it cost us nothing, as a start up company we couldn't have paid for it ourselves.
Result as far as I am concerned.
;D ;D ;D
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I basic left to stop me getting into a position of taking them to court.
Wow that was kind of you, you're really nice.
The fact is and has increased you cant just come on a forum and say what you like
This has always been the case and so what? What you said about cordoning off was published in a magazine and then repeated (by you) on here. There's no doubt that you said it, and you still think we should all be cordoning off the area when using waterfed poles.
Look the facts are in the article
Go and look at this legislation and read it
I already did, and have quoted it several times, mainly because I couldn't believe that it said what you claimed it said. I actually (sad case that I am) took the time read to read the whole Work at Height Regulations document, which is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/made (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/made)
I dont dodge questions
Its just to be fair is complicated,
You'd like to give that impression, because if the regulations are complicated then people must need to be trained by you to comply. $$ Kerching! $$
But actually they are not complicated, they are pretty straightforward and sensible. Let's look at what you said and see if it matches up with what the regulations say, shall we?
Andy Willis:
"Regulation 10 of the Working At Height Legislation covers falling objects, and makes clear that in order to comply fully with the law, a safety zone should be demarcated, ideally including cones, tape and barriers. There should also be clear signs indicating that work is in progress, and that there may be a falling objects hazard. Such barriers and signs are frequently missing."
So, you are saying that Regulation 10 "makes it clear" that you must cordon off an area when using poles.
Here is what Regulation 10 actually says:
"Falling objects
10.—(1) Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object.
(2) Where it is not reasonably practicable to comply with the requirements of paragraph (1), every employer shall take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent any person being struck by any falling material or object which is liable to cause personal injury.
(3) Every employer shall ensure that no material or object is thrown or tipped from height in circumstances where it is liable to cause injury to any person.
(4) Every employer shall ensure that materials and objects are stored in such a way as to prevent risk to any person arising from the collapse, overturning or unintended movement of such materials or objects."
So what is it actually saying;
In paragraph (1) it says we must first take reasonable and practical steps to PREVENT the object falling.
This makes good sense, preventing something falling is obviously the best thing to do, and for waterfed poles, what would be a good way to do that? Obviously, it would be to keep holding onto it, which of course window cleaners do. So as long as I keep hold of the pole while its extended, and don't leave it unattended while it's up, then I have taken reasonably practical steps to prevent it falling. I have fully complied with the law. As far as regulation 10 goes, I'm good. And guess what? I didn't need to cordon off the area.
So then, this begs the question, what are you on about Andy Willis? Where does it say "in order to comply fully with the law, a safety zone should be demarcated" as you said in your article? Anywhere? No.
The only time it becomes necessary to take reasonable steps to prevent people being hit by objects if section 2 comes into play:
"Where it is not reasonably practicable to comply with the requirements of paragraph (1), every employer shall take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent any person being struck by any falling material or object which is liable to cause personal injury."
So what this section is saying, is that if it's not reasonably practical to actively prevent objects falling, then instead you must make sure that they don't hit someone if they fall. Will this ever apply to using waterfed poles? Is there ever a time when you can't hold onto a pole? No, it will never apply. Because to use a pole, you have to hold onto it, and therefore the act of using it means you are holding onto it, and that is a reasonably practicable way to actively prevent it falling. It's just the nature of the thing, it has to be held to be used. There's never a situation where a pole cannot be held onto, because that is how poles are used.
Sections 3 and 4 of that regulation discuss objects thrown from height, and things collapsing when stored at height - neither of which apply to waterfed pole.
So, again I will ask Andy, what are you on about? where is this requirement to cordon off? It simply isn't there. Prevention of poles falling is built-in to their use, and that is all that is needed to comply with the regulation.
One thing for sure Nick is that the law needs to be made clear
Nope, it's pretty clear already. In fact, it could hardly be clearer. You like to give the impression that it isn't clear so that people will pay you for training. And you even go a step further - you have claimed that the law requires something that it certainly DOES NOT, all to push your training.
Your last post was a bit of a climb-down, but it's too late. We have all seen what your agenda is.
For that reason, you are the enemy of hard working window cleaners who are just trying to get on with their business without the burden of unnecessary regulations. Worse, by doing so you bring health and safety regulation that has saved many lives into disrepute. It's obvious that the regulations in section 10 are reasonable and sensible, but you are claiming that they require something unreasonable and impractical when they clearly do not.
Why would anyone do this? It's obvious to us all that you're only interest is in making money from training, and anyone can see plainly that what you've publicly said is about regulation 10 is simply wrong, and designed to scare-monger.
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If the wind unexpectedly catches it or you trip while using it the whole pole is a falling object.
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If the wind unexpectedly catches it or you trip while using it the whole pole is a falling object.
Or you could have a heart attack or something so you need to take all sensible precautions.
I think we need to start tethering poles to whichever building we're cleaning to prevent ANY falls from height.
Come on lads get with it, this is safety you've got to embrace it because its inevitable.
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In the article it says where there is public access not private housing.
The mat is fine, I'll tell it you were asking after it.
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As a window cleaner with over 27 years experience, I Definatly do not know everything unlike some on here that seem to either know it all, or just simply use negative energy having a go at people that attempt to use their time and energy being positive.
I welcome any information, knowledge, advice, help, from anyone, especially when it can possibly benefit me and my company.
You would think with what I have learnt over the years in the window cleaning industry I would comment more on the forum, but I don't because of the idiots that just want to try and belittle you.
I attended the course by Impact 43 because it was available and my choice to take up the offer.
WHY would I want to attend the course, especially with all the years experience I have ?
I attended because I wanted to learn, network and know more about how the laws are not just in window cleaning, but in general.
We all go to work to earn a living, simple as that, and I want people like Andrew Willis to be available to educate and help to advise me where possible, whether I agree with what he says or not.
Too many people just want to have a go at each other, when infact if you want to make a success of your business, you have to learn to sometimes listen to what others do and say, and implement them yourself.
I enjoyed the course and found both Andrew and David polite, informative and very helpfully,
But that's just my opinion.
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I went on Andrews course and was going to write a full post on the experience but because funding was being removed I did not think it was necessary to post as it was then peoples choice whether they paid to attend and not being funded by tax money.
The course itself had a lot of positives and on how health and safety regulations work and what would be required by the employer should an accident occur and HSE where to investigate. It was also good to meet other window cleaners and openly discuss issues.
On the down side I feel much like Nick that reasonable precautions are already in place to stop poles falling and cordoning off can often cause more of a safety hazard than actually using a pole would cause, if I was using a pole over 45 ft with quite a few pedestrians around then I would try to pick a quieter time to carry out the work or have a banksman directing people around me but this would be left to my discretion or the supervisor on site.
On the course Andrew showed a few demonstrations where accidents had occurred through not correctly risk assessing a situation one was of a crane going into a dock which I later discovered is a photo shopped incident that did not occur so should not be used as a working example.
Another photo he showed was of a area being cleaned using WFP and by his assessment came to the conclusion a cherrypicker should of been used instead,I felt this was totally wrong as the site conditions of floor, access of delivery etc where not even discussed if Andrew would like to post this picture I would be interested in other peoples thoughts.
The traditional practical side although run by a very experienced window cleaner was basically not worth doing unless you had never cleaned a window before and did he did not have many of the attachments, cloths or chemicals that are available today for candidates to have a play with.
There was a part that dealt with cladding cleaning again this barely touched the essentials no mention on how chemicals can be applied and how they should be applied or what chemicals can be used for the type of soiling, I do realise this is a very large subject to try and cover but the course did not even touch the basics.
Finally the safe use and inspection of ladder certificate that did have to be paid for was far from thorough the inspection part covered all points but placing a small ladder against a wall on perfect level conditions and then extending it three rungs followed by climbing up it cleaning a window and climbing down in my opinion does not make someone competent enough to receive a certificate for safe ladder use.
After the course I spoke to Andrew about the above points as he had asked for my opinion, the course did have some beneficial points and now funding has been removed I am sure a lot more practical content could be put into the course because way too much time was spent doing paper work that had nothing to do with our work to satisfy funding for the NVQ.
I wish Andrew all the best with future training courses and hopefully he can tinker with the content to make it more beneficial.
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i don't know why every one is just downright rude and horrible to this guy, not nice at all
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Aren't impact threads fun? ;D ;D
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People are rude because they feel inadequate and have small cocks.
Now stop wasting all that negative energy and go and donate some good energy here
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=172474.0
to get a 25' Gardiners Extreme WFP Pole for £10.00.
;D
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
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I went on Andrews course and was going to write a full post on the experience but because funding was being removed I did not think it was necessary to post as it was then peoples choice whether they paid to attend and not being funded by tax money.
The course itself had a lot of positives and on how health and safety regulations work and what would be required by the employer should an accident occur and HSE where to investigate. It was also good to meet other window cleaners and openly discuss issues.
On the down side I feel much like Nick that reasonable precautions are already in place to stop poles falling and cordoning off can often cause more of a safety hazard than actually using a pole would cause, if I was using a pole over 45 ft with quite a few pedestrians around then I would try to pick a quieter time to carry out the work or have a banksman directing people around me but this would be left to my discretion or the supervisor on site.
On the course Andrew showed a few demonstrations where accidents had occurred through not correctly risk assessing a situation one was of a crane going into a dock which I later discovered is a photo shopped incident that did not occur so should not be used as a working example.
Another photo he showed was of a area being cleaned using WFP and by his assessment came to the conclusion a cherrypicker should of been used instead,I felt this was totally wrong as the site conditions of floor, access of delivery etc where not even discussed if Andrew would like to post this picture I would be interested in other peoples thoughts.
The traditional practical side although run by a very experienced window cleaner was basically not worth doing unless you had never cleaned a window before and did he did not have many of the attachments, cloths or chemicals that are available today for candidates to have a play with.
There was a part that dealt with cladding cleaning again this barely touched the essentials no mention on how chemicals can be applied and how they should be applied or what chemicals can be used for the type of soiling, I do realise this is a very large subject to try and cover but the course did not even touch the basics.
Finally the safe use and inspection of ladder certificate that did have to be paid for was far from thorough the inspection part covered all points but placing a small ladder against a wall on perfect level conditions and then extending it three rungs followed by climbing up it cleaning a window and climbing down in my opinion does not make someone competent enough to receive a certificate for safe ladder use.
After the course I spoke to Andrew about the above points as he had asked for my opinion, the course did have some beneficial points and now funding has been removed I am sure a lot more practical content could be put into the course because way too much time was spent doing paper work that had nothing to do with our work to satisfy funding for the NVQ.
I wish Andrew all the best with future training courses and hopefully he can tinker with the content to make it more beneficial.
Trevor, Have you moved forward and committed to taking your IOSH managing safely and NEBOSH certificate because this is the only way you will move forward, sorry but your need input from others, take these and then lets talk
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
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I have IOSh managing safely cert, all basic stuff and common sense.
Nebosh is the one to go for, IOSH is aimed at those who have very little experience H&S wise
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
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I have recently used the knowledge gained from the impact course regarding RA's and MS's to secure over £2500 worth of work. Thank you Impact 43
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
No that's incorrect
The re branding part is correct
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
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I like the way Andy Willis takes the time to reply to everyone's comments, EXCEPT MINE where I clearly point out that the regulations DO NOT require cordoning off when using waterfed poles, and that he is plainly wrong.
Then I see things like this, and his agenda is all too clear:
one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
Yes Andy Willis would just love to be involved with this, and you can bet your bottom dollar that any guidance he proposes will be in the interest of HIM and not the window cleaner.
Question: Why do you think there needs to be guidance on what controls are required? What accident statistics have you got to show they are needed? NONE because there aren't any, because it is not a problem.
When I went on the BWCA course, they said the HSE had already produced official guidance on the use of waterfed pole, and showed us the document. The fact that you don't know this just goes to show that you don't have a clue.
It's obvious that the only person to ever suggest that waterfed pole use needs "controls" in other words restrictions - is someone who will financially benefit from it.
He's already proved he is willing to say anything to scare monger people into thinking the regulations require things they DO NOT, all so he can push his training.
We need all to be awake to what Andy Willis is doing here - he is proposing that window cleaners are restricted in how they currently work! "Controls" on the use of waterfed pole? We already know that he thinks that means we should be cordoning off!
If we aren't careful here, we could have a total numpty with vested interests like Andy Willis influencing the law, and that will be a very bad day for window cleaners.
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
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I like the way Andy Willis takes the time to reply to everyone's comments, EXCEPT MINE where I clearly point out that the regulations DO NOT require cordoning off when using waterfed poles, and that he is plainly wrong.
Then I see things like this, and his agenda is all too clear:
one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
Yes Andy Willis would just love to be involved with this, and you can bet your bottom dollar that any guidance he proposes will be in the interest of HIM and not the window cleaner.
Question: Why do you think there needs to be guidance on what controls are required? What accident statistics have you got to show they are needed? NONE because there aren't any, because it is not a problem.
When I went on the BWCA course, they said the HSE had already produced official guidance on the use of waterfed pole, and showed us the document. The fact that you don't know this just goes to show that you don't have a clue.
It's obvious that the only person to ever suggest that waterfed pole use needs "controls" in other words restrictions - is someone who will financially benefit from it.
He's already proved he is willing to say anything to scare monger people into thinking the regulations require things they DO NOT, all so he can push his training.
We need all to be awake to what Andy Willis is doing here - he is proposing that window cleaners are restricted in how they currently work! "Controls" on the use of waterfed pole? We already know that he thinks that means we should be cordoning off!
If we aren't careful here, we could have a total numpty with vested interests like Andy Willis influencing the law, and that will be a very bad day for window cleaners.
Nick
I am in Southampton on July 9th, 10th 11th and 12th then 18th for two days
why don't we meet up.
If you don't want to attend the workshop where i will explain all you comment on and prefer to just come on a forum calling me, thats fine.
Re the Waterfed document I take it you refer to the FWC guidance http://www.f-w-c.co.uk/documents/Safety_in_Window_Cleaning_using_Waterfed_Pole_Systems.Ameded2.pdf
I am more than aware of this, read it, It needs revising, it reminds me of the ladder version the FWC produced a guidence Misc 613 this was withdrawn
Regards
andy
PS Is this your company http://www.shine-again.co.uk
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If you don't want to attend the workshop where i will explain all you comment on and prefer to just come on a forum calling me, thats fine.
No, I'd rather you just answered my points on here. Your endless requests to 'meet up' and 'come on my training course' are, to be quite honest, idiotic. I know you'd rather I wasn't showing you up on here, but that's life.
prefer to just come on a forum calling me
I simply pointed out what the law ACTUALLY says in comparison to what you said, which is totally different.
PS Is this your company http://www.shine-again.co.uk
LOL! Trying to track me down are you Andy? What are you going to do? Send some boys round to have a 'quiet word'? Pathetic!
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
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The main problem that I have is the only people that suffer out of this are actually US.
We go to work and do the best that we can possibly do to earn a living and try and better ourselves.
However as whatever organisation or training course people want to be called by, rather that bang on about whats right and whats wrong with how WE carry out our work, I would rather an organisation be formed to actually look after all of us and go round stopping window cleaners who work illegally and give the rest of us a bad name.
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The main problem that I have is the only people that suffer out of this are actually US.
We go to work and do the best that we can possibly do to earn a living and try and better ourselves.
However as whatever organisation or training course people want to be called by, rather that bang on about whats right and whats wrong with how WE carry out our work, I would rather an organisation be formed to actually look after all of us and go round stopping window cleaners who work illegally and give the rest of us a bad name.
If you are in charge for the day how would you stop them?
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not read ALL of the posts as quite frankly too tiresome but scanning them quickly is is correct we have a person who trains H and S but has never worked as a window cleaner ::)roll
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£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely
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Sunshine Cleaning,
I wouldn't be in charge for the day, that's why I said it would be better for someone to do it.
I am NOT clever enough to think about possible answers, I just merely suggest things that would possibly improve the general reputation of the window cleaner, and cut down on possible benefit cheats and others who use window cleaning as a smoke screen to weigh up houses or business's.
It has happened for years and it wont be stopped, but it can be cut down and make our profession better.
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate
Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course
Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs
On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up
The training we provide is inline with others if not better
HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC
Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.
Cant help like you Trev :]
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£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely
Got to laugh at this post
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£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely
Got to laugh at this post
Why laugh?
Its not funny and i think hes being very serious.
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£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely
Got to laugh at this post
is it funny then ?
cant see punch line in there ?
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whats the "43" stand for?
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The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen. When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.
thought I had seen it ... isi t accurate or not ... simple question really
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whats the "43" stand for?
from what Ive read so far ..... stands for "Government funded with tax payers money gravy train" ;)
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whats the "43" stand for?
Training Four Three (43)
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aha my guess incorrect then
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well did u get £1300 for training one person ?
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Wheres this picture trevor wants to see?
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well did u get £1300 for training one person ?
And we wonder why the country is a right mess?
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well did u get £1300 for training one person ?
And we wonder why the country is a right mess?
apart from owners of training agencies ... alledgedly
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andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew
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i agree with cowboy to a certain extent , if the government are going to throw money at him there is no reason not to take it , if it wasnt him it would be somebody else .
i do however totally disagree with having to cordon off to use a pole and think he has misinterpreted the law .
There has to be some common sense when it comes to health and safety .
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andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew
I think you are misreading the motive here. I don't think its jealousy, I think it's closer to disgust (at the Gov, not necessarily at Impact).
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andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew
I think you are misreading the motive here. I don't think its jealousy, I think it's closer to disgust (at the Gov, not necessarily at Impact).
Correct
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There are lots of Government funded courses out there, at no cost to the employee or the employer. I have a customer who is in retail (works for Next), late 40's and is doing a distance management course. The company that assess her go to her workplace each month to do the tests. How much do you think the assessment companies are getting from the Government for each student or for the day?? When i was in sales, i was sent on many different courses, all paid for by the employer back then, The cost in the early 2000's was £450 per day per person. Right or wrong, if the Government are going to chuck some money at companies to provide training, then why shouldn't they take it? I know i would!!
Regarding the level of information and training on the Impact 43 courses, i can't comment as i have not been on one, but if it is true that they are advising window cleaners to cordon off a large area on a domestic property to be able to clean safely, then it is H&S gone a little mad IMO!!
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cordon is a good idea, the hi viz tape will draw attention and prob get you further work .
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
No that's incorrect
The re branding part is correct
All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
No that's incorrect
The re branding part is correct
All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.
Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
No that's incorrect
The re branding part is correct
All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.
Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?
what are they called now?
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Not certain. (so don't quote me) ;D
But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.
That Allegedly, :)
The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.
So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?
As often Neil your post is totally incorrect
RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge
RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board
Regards
Andy
Is Neil really incorrect?
I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.
Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not
But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?
No that's incorrect
The re branding part is correct
All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.
Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?
what are they called now?
Ive forgot.lol
About reply 7 or 8 it says lol
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can you blame um :(
Why?
Because it'll end up in about five pages of crap ? ;D
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate
Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course
Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs
On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up
The training we provide is inline with others if not better
HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC
Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.
Cant help like you Trev :]
On our the course there was one lad who had never climbed a ladder before in his life, so no not all where experienced.
Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time
Yes you did inspect my ladders and you pointed out the ladder inspection tags where too high and should be lowered as an operative could catch his hands whilst coming down ladder, this was good sensible advice, you also stated the ladder tags should be fastened to ladder with cable ties as the quarter inch screws I had used could weaken the ladder making it unsafe, I did not take you up on this point at the time but have you not viewed all ladders they have big holes drilled in where the rungs go, many of the brackets and rung clips are screwed into place and yet this does not weaken the ladder to make them unfit for use so I doubt my quarter inch screws would be a problem.
I did agree that the ladders where due to be replaced as coming to end of their lifespan but they where not unsafe.
I have not been on any other ladder training courses so I cannot compare but if this is the standard across the board then the certificate is a complete waste of time and basically is just a piece of paper to cover the employers arse should an accident occur. No discussion took place on positioning of ladder for different window types and you had no ladder safety devices to demonstrate their strengths weaknesses.
Your right Andrew maybe you cant help people like me but can you post that photo and discuss the reason why you think a cherrypicker would be better than WFP for the job at least then other forum members can decide who is talking sense.
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Lets see the pic andrew please ???
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i dont think he will . some on here will rip him to shreds .. health and safety is a matter of opinion . lets just hope if an accident did occur to anyone of us, then the judge thinks the same as we do and not the claimant ..andrew has at least got all of us to question ourselves to what is safe to the operative and general public.. some may say this is a success in itself
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A few years ago the road transport industry was threatened by an insane proposal from whoever the EU safety policy makers are that all heavy goods drivers who wore spectacles must be able to see clearly enough without their spectacles to bring a lorry safely to a stop from the legal maximum speed.
This was justified by the assumption that it is possible that a driver's glasses may fall off while he is driving.
It ignored the fact that there has never been a single recorded instance of an accident occuring as a result of a driver's glasses falling off and came very close to disqualifying every HGV driver who needed glasses.
This was a clear example of what is happening in the 'safety' industry.
'Safety' is an industry like any other - it needs to create a demand for its products and so has a 'research and development' element devoted to examining every aspect of commercial and industrial activity with the sole intention of identifying ever more trivial situations where it can show there is a 'risk' (refer to above) and then devise regulations to address that risk, thereby justifying the continued existance of the safety industry and, more importantly, the jobs and income of those engaged within that industry.
Sensible safety precautions are essential but where it is in the interest of the authors of those precautions, 'sensible' becomes secondary to their self interest.
(The threat to the lorry drivers was challenged and defeated by a campaign in the national press of those countries in the EU which still have an independant news media)
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate
Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course
Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs
On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up
The training we provide is inline with others if not better
HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC
Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.
Cant help like you Trev :]
On our the course there was one lad who had never climbed a ladder before in his life, so no not all where experienced.
Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time
Yes you did inspect my ladders and you pointed out the ladder inspection tags where too high and should be lowered as an operative could catch his hands whilst coming down ladder, this was good sensible advice, you also stated the ladder tags should be fastened to ladder with cable ties as the quarter inch screws I had used could weaken the ladder making it unsafe, I did not take you up on this point at the time but have you not viewed all ladders they have big holes drilled in where the rungs go, many of the brackets and rung clips are screwed into place and yet this does not weaken the ladder to make them unfit for use so I doubt my quarter inch screws would be a problem.
I did agree that the ladders where due to be replaced as coming to end of their lifespan but they where not unsafe.
I have not been on any other ladder training courses so I cannot compare but if this is the standard across the board then the certificate is a complete waste of time and basically is just a piece of paper to cover the employers arse should an accident occur. No discussion took place on positioning of ladder for different window types and you had no ladder safety devices to demonstrate their strengths weaknesses.
Your right Andrew maybe you cant help people like me but can you post that photo and discuss the reason why you think a cherrypicker would be better than WFP for the job at least then other forum members can decide who is talking sense.
What was the point being made?
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Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time
And you're looking for a debate on health and safety? :o
Anyway regardless of this buffoonery, there is no benefit to Andrew willis in participating in a HS debate on here. He's getting knocked from all sides from seizing an opportunity from the government and sticking up for his business.
People should stop getting hung up on the wfp cordon. It was funny at 1st and easy to argue against because we normally do it safer by picking times and getting away as quick as possible.
I like the debates, they are healthy and the anti willis camp have made some points that made me think.
But it's too personal and gossipy without all the facts.
Common sense seems to fly out of the window in the eagerness to try and trip teacher up.
I think the point is trevor has never had an accident and is therefore very safe. ;D
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im still wondering what "43" stands for in impact 43 . was the main man 43 when he had this idea or was his house number 43 or did he have an impact in his car on the A43
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Could be it stands for "For Free" .... "4 3 " ??
Impact £1300 hasn't got the same ring to it tho.....
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did he do well out of it? cmon Dave show us your trappings of wealth . that Porsche/Chevy Camino you always promised yourself ,upload the foto for us, stand proud and loud
iv always envied folk who run a training school , uv made it when you can say your a teacher
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I found the impact course very good and gave me a better understanding of H&S plus i got to meet some nice knowledgeable guys.
As for safe clean who cares what they are doing i don't think they were bought out by washforce as if you do a simple search they are joint founders of washforce.
Washforce (UK) Limited was set up on 30 Apr 2013 in Lincolnshire. Its current status is listed as "Live"and it currently has 3 directors. It was founded by Mr Paul Wilkinson, Mr David Andrew Willis, Mr Michael Lee Willis. Washforce (UK) Limited has no subsidiaries.
https://www.duedil.com/company/08509565/washforce-uk-limited
This thread is just turning into another boring impact43 and safeclean bashing
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Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time
And you're looking for a debate on health and safety? :o
Anyway regardless of this buffoonery, there is no benefit to Andrew willis in participating in a HS debate on here. He's getting knocked from all sides from seizing an opportunity from the government and sticking up for his business.
People should stop getting hung up on the wfp cordon. It was funny at 1st and easy to argue against because we normally do it safer by picking times and getting away as quick as possible.
I like the debates, they are healthy and the anti willis camp have made some points that made me think.
But it's too personal and gossipy without all the facts.
Common sense seems to fly out of the window in the eagerness to try and trip teacher up.
I think the point is trevor has never had an accident and is therefore very safe. ;D
apart from qualifying for a certificate why would you consider climbing a ladder two rungs at a time more dangerous than climbing one rung at a time, if you have short legs and a short stride then yes you may be over stretching to climb two rungs at a time but I am 6ft 3 with long legs so two rungs at a time is no long stretch, Also most ladders today have 10 inch gaps between rungs but many of the old window cleaning ladders had 12 inch gaps did this make them more dangerous no it didn't in it just became habbit as to what you got used too.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
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Could be it stands for "For Free" .... "4 3 " ??
Impact £1300 hasn't got the same ring to it tho.....
;D
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no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views
Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.
www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/
Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.
I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge
Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls
Thats me done on this issue
RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate
Regards
Andy
Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
I'll get them up over the weekend, You can Google the area its Tally Ho London
Trevor you know the photo shop lorry in water is only an example of planning, come on Its an example of what the owners of that area could achieve if they had installed post to stop cars going in to the water in the first place.
On the day only two out of the group wanted the ladder training certification, that young lad was not included, I think phil gave a good course on the day. Concerning safety controls you put in place when working, Thats the point you make the choices when working not me,
If you are an honest man how much do I want to challenge safety legislation, cut crap and get a clear position on how to comply. Anyone on her would think I am safety mad, The fact is for most who attend they know how much safety law gets my back up.
I am going to load the photos on the weekend will be happy to make some posts.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
Certificate that man :)
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I found the impact course very good and gave me a better understanding of H&S plus i got to meet some nice knowledgeable guys.
As for safe clean who cares what they are doing i don't think they were bought out by washforce as if you do a simple search they are joint founders of washforce.
Washforce (UK) Limited was set up on 30 Apr 2013 in Lincolnshire. Its current status is listed as "Live"and it currently has 3 directors. It was founded by Mr Paul Wilkinson, Mr David Andrew Willis, Mr Michael Lee Willis. Washforce (UK) Limited has no subsidiaries.
https://www.duedil.com/company/08509565/washforce-uk-limited
This thread is just turning into another boring impact43 and safeclean bashing
;)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk ;D
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
Certificate that man
Make sure you get £1300 first ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAG5_fTAffo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
haha, yeah all he needed was a squeegee.
However, from a laymans perspective I would say going up 2 steps instead of 1 is dangerous on the basis of there being a hazard between the 2 steps.
ie the step being missed out. :)
On another friendly note ;D I hope your pl insurance doesn't increase because of someone reading that joke.
I know you were joking about the 2 step thing really, You had me going for a while though. ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
haha, yeah all he needed was a squeegee.
However, from a laymans perspective I would say going up 2 steps instead of 1 is dangerous on the basis of there being a hazard between the 2 steps.
ie the step being missed out. :)
On another friendly note ;D I hope your pl insurance doesn't increase because of someone reading that joke.
I know you were joking about the 2 step thing really, You had me going for a while though. ;D
Mark I was not joking about climbing and descending ladders two rungs at a time this is something I have always done although now that we don't use ladders that much it is something I very rarely do, My father who is 75 years old has always climbed ladders one rung at a time but descended two rungs at a time as this felt comfortable to him he still finds it easier to descend two rungs at a time now even at his age, he says it just feels awkward if he comes down one rung strides, maybe i should video it and put the post up i am sure i will get slated but you will see how natural it looks when done.
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To be fair I THINK Most nvq funding, for anyone who is looking to do a qualification 5 years after they did gcse's etc, has been cut not just impact43.
Think the cut of date is august....
All but a couple of select industries still have funding, I am glad so many window cleaning companies grabbed it whilst it was there, we have enjoyed the last Five years and I like to think the companies who attended have made good use of it.
I did thank you :)
Me 2 :-)
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Andrew
I have just enrolled to candidates for Plymouth
Can I still take you up on attending ?
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"i don't know why every one is just downright rude and horrible to this guy, not nice at all"
Not nice but neither was the way cleansafe went about finding new work.Never gonna win a popularity contest after that if your name is Willis.
I have no idea whether his course was good or bad and i certainly dont blame him for cashing in if the government were stupid enough to throw that sort of money around, but personally cant see the point in going on a H&S course for window cleaning when the authorities clearly have no intention of "policing" things. We're now 9 yrs on since WAHD was introduced and you can count the amount of prosecutions on one hand.
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Nobody loves me :'(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ioz21VqYk
This is how its done, I would call it someone skillfull at their job ;D
haha, yeah all he needed was a squeegee.
However, from a laymans perspective I would say going up 2 steps instead of 1 is dangerous on the basis of there being a hazard between the 2 steps.
ie the step being missed out. :)
On another friendly note ;D I hope your pl insurance doesn't increase because of someone reading that joke.
I know you were joking about the 2 step thing really, You had me going for a while though. ;D
Mark I was not joking about climbing and descending ladders two rungs at a time this is something I have always done although now that we don't use ladders that much it is something I very rarely do, My father who is 75 years old has always climbed ladders one rung at a time but descended two rungs at a time as this felt comfortable to him he still finds it easier to descend two rungs at a time now even at his age, he says it just feels awkward if he comes down one rung strides, maybe i should video it and put the post up i am sure i will get slated but you will see how natural it looks when done.
I was joking. :)
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"i don't know why every one is just downright rude and horrible to this guy, not nice at all"
Not nice but neither was the way cleansafe went about finding new work.Never gonna win a popularity contest after that if your name is Willis.
I have no idea whether his course was good or bad and i certainly dont blame him for cashing in if the government were stupid enough to throw that sort of money around, but personally cant see the point in going on a H&S course for window cleaning when the authorities clearly have no intention of "policing" things. We're now 9 yrs on since WAHD was introduced and you can count the amount of prosecutions on one hand.
Maybe to help people work in a safer way.
What a good teacher does is teach you how to think and how to learn rather than tell you the right answer. That's how Andrew did it. Very effective.
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I met mick willis a few months ago and he's a nice lad! We had a good chat. It makes the day happier if you can talk to other windies doesnt it! Sorry if i held you up with my gabbing that day mick, i can talk for england sometimes lol
At the end of the day he's a young man trying to make a living, has we all are!
Hi mick if your reading this, or if mr willis senior or mick's brother is reading this please say hello from me! Its george from tiber rd way in north hykeham with the small red combo van :)
Peace out people X
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Well said gb
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I Agree Andrew is a friendly guy but that does not mean I cannot disagree with some of his ideas on H and S, I was hoping Andrew would post the photo discussed earlier in the thread to get other peoples views on how they would access the windows the safest way, I apologise to Andrew if some of my posts have come across as personal as this was not my intention, I am willing to put my views on the photo public on this forum the same as I made my views thought to him personally on the day and am ready to be shot down if wrong, challenging other peoples teachings is not wrong to openly accept everything we are taught is wrong
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Yeah wheres the pics?
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Stage your own photo Trevor and discuss. I use a safety forum to ask them similar question.
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Impact 43 is being discussed at the moment Andrew on
windowcleaningpage@groups.facebook.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/windowcleaningpage/
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lol @ peace out
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Just finished reading Alan Sugars "the way I see it".. heres his insight into H&S
"Now, I appreciate that these regulations were designed to reduce accidents in the workplace, which in turn would prevent loss of work hours and save costs to organisations like the NHS. However, I think that weve gone into complete and utter overkill. Whats worse is it has spawned these new industries and services which have popped up to exploit the vulnerabilities that exist in companies,large and small, which have no choice but to be compliant.
Lets look at the so called experts - the health and safety consultants.Now, you might be surprised to hear that there are no mandatory qualifications required to call oneself a health and safety consultant. in Fact you could set yourself up as one,In many cases, the advise given is no more than plain common sense. All you need to do is go on the web - there are loads of government websites that dish out all the checklists and guidelines on how to be compliant.. Nevertheless, some of these consultants come in, full of the self importance, and try to intimidate small businesses into using their alleged expertise. The easiest way of frightening somebody is to tell them that they may be exposing themselves to possible financial claims." etc
;D ;D ;D
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Just finished reading Alan Sugars "the way I see it".. heres his insight into H&S
"Now, I appreciate that these regulations were designed to reduce accidents in the workplace, which in turn would prevent loss of work hours and save costs to organisations like the NHS. However, I think that weve gone into complete and utter overkill. Whats worse is it has spawned these new industries and services which have popped up to exploit the vulnerabilities that exist in companies,large and small, which have no choice but to be compliant.
Lets look at the so called experts - the health and safety consultants.Now, you might be surprised to hear that there are no mandatory qualifications required to call oneself a health and safety consultant. in Fact you could set yourself up as one,In many cases, the advise given is no more than plain common sense. All you need to do is go on the web - there are loads of government websites that dish out all the checklists and guidelines on how to be compliant.. Nevertheless, some of these consultants come in, full of the self importance, and try to intimidate small businesses into using their alleged expertise. The easiest way of frightening somebody is to tell them that they may be exposing themselves to possible financial claims." etc
;D ;D ;D
Yep, pretty much sums it up!!
They then prance about reckoning to "care" about you and the industry- just to add to the insult!! ;D ;D
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Just finished reading Alan Sugars "the way I see it".. heres his insight into H&S
"Now, I appreciate that these regulations were designed to reduce accidents in the workplace, which in turn would prevent loss of work hours and save costs to organisations like the NHS. However, I think that weve gone into complete and utter overkill. Whats worse is it has spawned these new industries and services which have popped up to exploit the vulnerabilities that exist in companies,large and small, which have no choice but to be compliant.
Lets look at the so called experts - the health and safety consultants.Now, you might be surprised to hear that there are no mandatory qualifications required to call oneself a health and safety consultant. in Fact you could set yourself up as one,In many cases, the advise given is no more than plain common sense. All you need to do is go on the web - there are loads of government websites that dish out all the checklists and guidelines on how to be compliant.. Nevertheless, some of these consultants come in, full of the self importance, and try to intimidate small businesses into using their alleged expertise. The easiest way of frightening somebody is to tell them that they may be exposing themselves to possible financial claims." etc
;D ;D ;D
Yep, pretty much sums it up!!
They then prance about reckoning to "care" about you and the industry- just to add to the insult!! ;D ;D
+1 ;D