Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Positivity on June 24, 2013, 02:51:35 pm

Title: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Positivity on June 24, 2013, 02:51:35 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2347257/Window-cleaner-fined-2-000-caught-camera-working-40ft-high-ledge-safety-harness.html
Isn't this the one that caused a bit of controversy on here?
People wondering who grassed him up etc.....
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: jarvy on June 24, 2013, 04:06:14 pm
Wow, rather him than me  ;D
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Frankybadboy on June 24, 2013, 04:41:54 pm
and so he should be as well.

why window cleaners are seen as cowboys.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: p1w1 on June 24, 2013, 04:51:25 pm
hopefully the restaurant will get fined at least 10 times that amount
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: keyser soze on June 24, 2013, 05:03:40 pm
and so he should be as well.

why window cleaners are seen as cowboys.





yippee kye aye
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Slash on June 24, 2013, 05:46:16 pm
He should of been fined more and it's complete idiots like this one we are called cowboys,so unprofessional,what a pleb ::)roll
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Ian101 on June 24, 2013, 06:47:36 pm
what a dangerous cock  ::)roll
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: spongebob on June 24, 2013, 06:50:42 pm
and so he should be as well.

why window cleaners are seen as cowboys.

NO! It's pikeys like you that are the reason window cleaners are seen as cowboys :P You chancer!
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Frankybadboy on June 24, 2013, 09:25:59 pm
and so he should be as well.

why window cleaners are seen as cowboys.

NO! It's pikeys like you that are the reason window cleaners are seen as cowboys :P You chancer!
iam paying the fine off at a £5 a week >:( >:(
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: SPE on June 24, 2013, 10:16:59 pm
seems a bit high
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: stuart mc on June 24, 2013, 10:22:00 pm
I feel for the guy, it was folk on here and other forums that forwarded the vid to H&S >:(

I try to mind my own business and not worry about others
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 24, 2013, 10:44:45 pm
I feel for the guy, it was folk on here and other forums that forwarded the vid to H&S >:(

I try to mind my own business and not worry about others

I think this man's behaviour is at the top end of foolishness and that whoever reported him did the best thing for:

1. The window cleaner himself, any family relying on him and his father; it will make him think and give him an added reason not to take chances.

2. Any prospective customer who is made aware of this judgement; they will be discouraged from expecting w/c's to take risks to clean their windows.

3. Other window cleaners who are trying to act responsibly.

4. The general public who don't want idiots like this falling on them or need reminding that his falling and claiming against them as customers is a possibility.

It's win win win.

On a personal level I don't feel for the guy at all - he is no better or no less dangerous than a speeding motorcyclist in a town centre.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: stuart mc on June 24, 2013, 10:57:47 pm
and I respect your views, just don't agree, I have that right don't I?
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: SPE on June 24, 2013, 11:15:19 pm
I fail to see why a fine was even nescessary in the first place, surely a warning and the consequences if he was to continue was all that was needed.
(oh yeah, derrr then the council would'nt have made any money out of the poor sod)

The responsibility lies firmly with the owners who employed him and allowed him to work in this way. They are the ones who paid him, though I suppose they would'nt have wanted to pay proper money for a proper safe job, hence someone like this guy will always take a chance.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: JamesAJF on June 24, 2013, 11:28:10 pm
omg i never seen anything so stupid i would never do that no matter how much i get paid there aint no way i would do that what a brat  ::)roll
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: edward1 on June 25, 2013, 12:38:04 am
 I used to do that sort of thing everyday 20 yrs ago in central London ,regents street ,and all around there.
 used to enjoy the danger ,never felt  unsafe,i used to feel more venerable on ladders ,walking ledges was fine.

bit extreme I know ,and wouldn't do it now . ;D
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: jimiwindows on June 25, 2013, 12:37:20 pm
He looks like a good window cleaner to me.Hes got some bottle iv done that many times in london years ago.I loved it.If you did not have bottle to do that you got the SACK
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: idealrob on June 25, 2013, 12:41:21 pm
Just proves why for commercial work job method statements, risk assesments are needed, and responsible building owners, who ask for and use responsible safe window cleaners, regardless of cost, thats why corporate manslaughter laws are good for the safe window cleaners.

idealrob
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Ian Lancaster on June 25, 2013, 03:58:45 pm
I used to do that sort of thing everyday 20 yrs ago in central London ,regents street ,and all around there.
 used to enjoy the danger ,never felt  unsafe,i used to feel more venerable on ladders ,walking ledges was fine.

bit extreme I know ,and wouldn't do it now . ;D

So did I, 45 years ago  ;D  It was the accepted method of doing the job and all 'tumblers' were trained to do it that way.  As Jimiwindows says: if you didn't have the bottle you were soon out on your ear.

Even though there were very few accidents and even fewer fatal ones, there were still accidents.  In 1978 a window sill collapsed while I was leaning on it to reach the upper panes; it had been broken and repaired by skimming over the damage with sand and cement and gave way under the pressure of my hand - I lost my balance and fell 6mt from my ladder onto concrete.  I still walk with a limp and both feet give me gyp at the end of the day.

Even further back in time small boys were forced up chimneys to clean them.

Times change - practices like that belong in the past.

And a good thing too!

On the other hand - if that man had been working over a private garden and there were no people below for him to fall on/drop his squeegee on etc, shouldn't he have the right, as an adult, to decide for himself whether he wanted to take that risk?
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: jimiwindows on June 25, 2013, 04:16:10 pm
Are you still on the tools Ian.Iv been at it for 37 years mate
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Ian Lancaster on June 25, 2013, 06:37:15 pm
Are you still on the tools Ian.Iv been at it for 37 years mate

No b****y fear!!

I'm 70 next year - done my bit and then some ;)
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 25, 2013, 06:43:14 pm
and I respect your views, just don't agree, I have that right don't I?

Which ones? I'd like to hear why you feel the way you do.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: edward1 on June 25, 2013, 06:48:51 pm
ian has now retired into a very comfortable lifestyle.
 ;D
and spends most of his time sunning himself in the Algarve I believe.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Dave Willis on June 25, 2013, 07:10:21 pm
I got burnt in the Balearics once. Not a pretty sight!
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: LWC on June 25, 2013, 11:09:21 pm
I feel for the guy, it was folk on here and other forums that forwarded the vid to H&S >:(

I try to mind my own business and not worry about others

Couldnt agree more. I also feel for him. Fined for what? I agree maybe give him a telling off but NOTHING happened so what, who cares!

Get on with your own lives and stop worrying about other peoples lives.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: neil kellett on June 25, 2013, 11:51:36 pm
A fall arrest system or harness would not have been much use on this type of structure and would possibly only cause an accident.  If he fell with a harness on him who is gonna pull him back up?  Where is he gonna clip his lanyard onto on an old building like this, theres not gonna be any latch on points.  A cherry picker would hardly be viable, permits, cost etc.  This guy is old school, he knows what he's doing instinctively, its the way those windows have always been done.  The difference now is every do gooder now has a smartfone. 
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 26, 2013, 12:25:21 am
A fall arrest system or harness would not have been much use on this type of structure and would possibly only cause an accident.  If he fell with a harness on him who is gonna pull him back up?  Where is he gonna clip his lanyard onto on an old building like this, theres not gonna be any latch on points.  A cherry picker would hardly be viable, permits, cost etc.  This guy is old school, he knows what he's doing instinctively, its the way those windows have always been done.  The difference now is every do gooder now has a smartfone. 

 ::)roll
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: Frankybadboy on June 26, 2013, 07:25:54 am
I feel for the guy, it was folk on here and other forums that forwarded the vid to H&S >:(

I try to mind my own business and not worry about others

Couldnt agree more. I also feel for him. Fined for what? I agree maybe give him a telling off but NOTHING happened so what, who cares!

Get on with your own lives and stop worrying about other peoples lives.
and for what,a few quid and that all,is it worth it,one slip and the few quid doesn't matter.


I see my life a bit more than a few quid,if your desperate then you carry on
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: andyM on June 26, 2013, 07:38:22 am
It doesn't matter how good or skilled he is at his job, in my opinion he potentially put members of the public at risk due to his actions.
Luckily he didn't fall, but what if he did?
Would people still be supportive of him if another person or others had been injured or killed due to him falling?
The fine should be a wake up call to him to think of the bigger picture!
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 26, 2013, 07:42:05 am
I feel for the guy, it was folk on here and other forums that forwarded the vid to H&S >:(

I try to mind my own business and not worry about others

Couldnt agree more. I also feel for him. Fined for what? I agree maybe give him a telling off but NOTHING happened so what, who cares!

Get on with your own lives and stop worrying about other peoples lives.

If we have knowledge to help people and don't use it what sort of person are we?

Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: gary999 on June 26, 2013, 09:07:59 am
big brother his mother and bloody sister are constantly
watching these days you soon wont be able to fart soo without
getting permission.

dont get me wrong if you presenting a real risk to the
general public you should be pulled up but if the risk is
to no one but the individual surely they have the right
to make the decision and take that choice no matter how
stupid it seems to the rest of us.


1984 is fast approaching with the constant sanitisation of
our lives
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: neil kellett on June 26, 2013, 01:59:27 pm
A fall arrest system or harness would not have been much use on this type of structure and would possibly only cause an accident.  If he fell with a harness on him who is gonna pull him back up?  Where is he gonna clip his lanyard onto on an old building like this, theres not gonna be any latch on points.  A cherry picker would hardly be viable, permits, cost etc.  This guy is old school, he knows what he's doing instinctively, its the way those windows have always been done.  The difference now is every do gooder now has a smartfone. 

 ::)roll
Roll your eyes all you like, it said in the article he was  working without a harness. How could the guys who built the skyscrapers back in the twenties have walked around on the girders attached to harnesses?  Anyone with experience and training with fall arrest knows this, its only the general public and the uninitiated who will baulk. No mention of WFP, abseil etc because they don't comprehend those systems.  Societies attitude to health and safety has changed. The glass still need to be cleaned. It may not reasonably practicable to do it the ideal way.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 26, 2013, 02:03:56 pm
Ireland might be behind the times mate but that's no excuse, perhaps it's time to catch up ya ejet.

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1372251833_Screen Shot 2013-06-26 at 13.54.03.png)
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: neil kellett on June 26, 2013, 03:24:49 pm
Behind the times?  Was the clip filmed in Ireland?  Our modern buildings are designed to cater for all access for cleaning and regular maintenance as are they are everywhere. this is an old building built before the new regs were brought in.  I'm not suggesting what the guy did was right, ofcourse it was unsafe.  But not necessarily because he was'nt using a harness.  If you fall with a harness on and are left hanging for any more than a few minutes your legs are gonna need to be amputated due to lack of blood flow.  I can go into other specifics but suffice it to say harnesses are more for perception and if not properly maintained, with certs of confomity etc will not hold most guys if they do fall, the lanyard in most cases being the trip factor causing the fall.
By the ways whats an ejet? Oh eegit sorry. Is that short for idiot?
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 26, 2013, 03:36:32 pm
Neil has a point. You can't use fall arrest without an evacuation plan and the means to carry out an evacuation safely.
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: jimiwindows on June 26, 2013, 04:04:47 pm
Behind the times?  Was the clip filmed in Ireland?  Our modern buildings are designed to cater for all access for cleaning and regular maintenance as are they are everywhere. this is an old building built before the new regs were brought in.  I'm not suggesting what the guy did was right, ofcourse it was unsafe.  But not necessarily because he was'nt using a harness.  If you fall with a harness on and are left hanging for any more than a few minutes your legs are gonna need to be amputated due to lack of blood flow.  I can go into other specifics but suffice it to say harnesses are more for perception and if not properly maintained, with certs of confomity etc will not hold most guys if they do fall, the lanyard in most cases being the trip factor causing the fall.
By the ways whats an ejet? Oh eegit sorry. Is that short for idiot?

7 mins and your legs are gone
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 26, 2013, 11:36:17 pm
Behind the times?  Was the clip filmed in Ireland?  Our modern buildings are designed to cater for all access for cleaning and regular maintenance as are they are everywhere. this is an old building built before the new regs were brought in.  I'm not suggesting what the guy did was right, ofcourse it was unsafe.  But not necessarily because he was'nt using a harness.  If you fall with a harness on and are left hanging for any more than a few minutes your legs are gonna need to be amputated due to lack of blood flow.  I can go into other specifics but suffice it to say harnesses are more for perception and if not properly maintained, with certs of confomity etc will not hold most guys if they do fall, the lanyard in most cases being the trip factor causing the fall.
By the ways whats an ejet? Oh eegit sorry. Is that short for idiot?

Do I detect some backtracking here? Good.  ::)roll
Title: Re: Windie £2000 fine
Post by: neil kellett on June 27, 2013, 11:00:32 am
I said, he knows what he's doing, instinctively.  So does spiderman but that doesn't make it safe. ;D