Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Matt Gibson on June 21, 2013, 10:12:18 am
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Would using 1/4" high pressure hose cause me to lose some of my flow rate?
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Not that you'll notice unless you use miles of it
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Thanks mate. I just bought 60m of new hose. 1/4''.. was using the machine today and it just felt like it was lacking in power compared to the old hose.
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Plumb a tee in before the gun and fit a pressure gauge, then you be able to see the pressure drop. I used to regularly use 50m of 1/4" before Wallice
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The pressure at the gauge hasnt changed it just feels less powerfull. like its not flowing at much. if that makes sense.
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Would it not create back pressure and strain on the pump as the bores small? that's what the engineer told me a while back
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Nothing seems to have changed, apart from it doesnt feel as forcefull. The gauge is still reading 200 bar, no noises from the pump or engine. nothing is struggling. I was thinking its because its so light,(the hose) sounds funny, but you cant even feel your pulling it around, might just be because it feels different in my hands when im using it..
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The pressure guage you are looking at is at the pump end of the hose - I was suggesting you fit a guage at the gun end of the hose which would show the real pressure at the gun.
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i allways use 25mtr of1/4" hose as a final hose off of a 1/2"lead hose so light and easy to use and no loss of pressure
regards john
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What you feel could well be right and the unloader is letting some of the flow bypass ,a check of the bypass hose flow would tell you(i think).
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your pressure may be the same but your flow rate might have lowered a bit so as said above check if your machine is still unloading when gun is in use
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Cheers guys,
Ill have a squiz on monday and see whats happening.. Hopefully its all good, as the new hose is a dream to work with..
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Found whats probably the problem. Water feed hose between filter and pump is sucking almost flat. Air getting in somehwere. cleaned filter and ordered some wire reinforced hose to replace the old stuff with and a new unloader just to be safe. my unloader cops a beating.
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Righto,
Few more tests while enjoying a coffee provided by the customer. if i take the nozzle off and pull the trigger the unloader stops unloading. normal. when i put the nozzle on and pull the trigger the unloader still returns to tank a little bit. the nozzle is the correct size.
new unloader??
Or should i be looking at something else? Inlet filter is clean.
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What pressure does the guage show - it should show the pressure for that nozzle size at the flow rate given. You may have a few more revs which may cause the unloader to dump some but the most likely cause will be a worn seat or weak spring in the unloader - treat yourself to a new one.
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The gauge shows 200 bar...the nozzle size is correct for my pump, and the pressure is reading right for the nozzle/pump. Like i aid before, just felt like the flow was down, now i know the unloader is returning to the tank, it makes sense why.
Ive got one on order but exchange are out of stock..
Just a weird one, I didnt automatically think of the unloader, because it feels like the wrong nozzle is in it.. im losing flow as if a nozzle too big was in, but the unloader is dumping like a nozzle too small is in..
New unloader it is.. ;D
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if it's still unloading when you get a new one then it could be your revs as carl says, or could be back pressure?
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if it's still unloading when you get a new one then it could be your revs as carl says, or could be back pressure?
Kenny where do you get this knowledge about pressure washing, seen loads of your posts with really good detailed info ?
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if it's still unloading when you get a new one then it could be your revs as carl says, or could be back pressure?
Cheers mate,
Dont think it will be the revs, as this is on the van mount, lombardini. Fixed revs.. no adjustment (well, there is the rev screw but its all fixed and bolted in place)
I was getting the feeling of lack of flow with the old 3/8 hose, but i think its more noticable with the lighter hose, so hopefully just an unloader and not back pressure, cause the new 1/4 cost me £200 >:(
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if it's still unloading when you get a new one then it could be your revs as carl says, or could be back pressure?
Kenny where do you get this knowledge about pressure washing, seen loads of your posts with really good detailed info ?
I just picked it up mate, they really interest me, I see pressure washing as a hobby as much it is a job to be honest ( call me sad lol ) I really enjoy pressure washing but enjoy even more fixing a broken washer and from this I have just picked it up, I have listened to everything I have been told by engineers over the years and it has sank in, also along the way I have learned quite alot my self by just fixing them. I'm not the cleverest of blokes and pressure washers aren't the most complicated machines. I'm not pressure washer engineer but there's nothing I won't have a go at (unless it means stripping an engine, I hate it when I spill oil everywhere). I have also bought and sold lot's of machines that I have needed to repair in one way or another which has helped me learn about them.
;D
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if it's still unloading when you get a new one then it could be your revs as carl says, or could be back pressure?
Cheers mate,
Dont think it will be the revs, as this is on the van mount, lombardini. Fixed revs.. no adjustment (well, there is the rev screw but its all fixed and bolted in place)
I was getting the feeling of lack of flow with the old 3/8 hose, but i think its more noticable with the lighter hose, so hopefully just an unloader and not back pressure, cause the new 1/4 cost me £200 >:(
Matt how long is the hose mate?
did you speak to Tony?
still waiting for the picture of your Zeta pump lol, I think there is only you and Lee blastaway who know how to upload pics on here haha ;)
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60m.. nice hose, flexible, light, good quality..
The other hose had been on the machine when i bought it, and god knows how long before that. All the wires were coming out, cut my hands to shreds..
Im waiting on the unloader from exchange, and hopefull thatll sort it.. havent changed the unloader for about a year, so its probably due one..
Im going down to the lockup tomorrow to have a play.. ill get the pics then mate.
Its not hard to upload pictures.. just get a photobucket account and add them there, then use the link.. simples.. ;D
Spoke to Tony, but i forgot to call him back today, need to buzz him tomorrow and get a firm price including delivery. He says delivery will be almost as much as one 25l drum..
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Depends how many you buy? Would be worth palletising them?
I was using my zeta the other day with a size .09 turbo, literally was pushing me back, really, really big flow! and it was still unloading some water! Can't wait to get it in action proper ;D
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Depends how many you buy? Would be worth palletising them?
I was using my zeta the other day with a size .09 turbo, literally was pushing me back, really, really big flow! and it was still unloading some water! Can't wait to get it in action proper ;D
Whimp!
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Depends how many you buy? Would be worth palletising them?
I was using my zeta the other day with a size .09 turbo, literally was pushing me back, really, really big flow! and it was still unloading some water! Can't wait to get it in action proper ;D
yeah thats what he said, chuck them on a small pallet. i ordered some nozzles for the new machine, cant wait to get them and get it out working. when i put a ws202 on the van mount and went from 15lpm to 21lpm that felt like it was pushing me back so i cant wait to have a good go with the zeta.
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Depends how many you buy? Would be worth palletising them?
I was using my zeta the other day with a size .09 turbo, literally was pushing me back, really, really big flow! and it was still unloading some water! Can't wait to get it in action proper ;D
Whimp!
;D
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Depends how many you buy? Would be worth palletising them?
I was using my zeta the other day with a size .09 turbo, literally was pushing me back, really, really big flow! and it was still unloading some water! Can't wait to get it in action proper ;D
yeah thats what he said, chuck them on a small pallet. i ordered some nozzles for the new machine, cant wait to get them and get it out working. when i put a ws202 on the van mount and went from 15lpm to 21lpm that felt like it was pushing me back so i cant wait to have a good go with the zeta.
The zeta crew ;D
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i allways use 25mtr of1/4" hose as a final hose off of a 1/2"lead hose so light and easy to use and no loss of pressure
regards john
Hi John
Could I ask how you marry up the half inch to the quarter? I have the large chunky quick release I don't think you can fit them to the quarter inch pipe. Would love,a quarter inch whip tail at the lance . Half my work is fighting with the hose like wrestling a python.
Cheers
John
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If you really have 1/2" hose you buy a 1/2-1/4 reducing cone faced nipple. I expect the hose would be 3/8" which is the setup I use. Do you have a swivel at the gun ?
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I have the biggest quick releases on my 1/4 hose. The big chunky 3 o ring ones. They are 3/8 female thread. I just got the hydraulics place to put 3/8 fittings on the hose. Simples.
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Well, it wasnt the unloader. Put the brand new one on today, still dumping a little bit of water back to the tank on full pressure.
Looks like its off to the hydraulics place again for another £200 worth of 3/8.. :'(
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Well, it wasnt the unloader. Put the brand new one on today, still dumping a little bit of water back to the tank on full pressure.
Looks like its off to the hydraulics place again for another £200 worth of 3/8.. :'(
Back pressure, the hose is too small and long for the litre. A larger nozzle will take some of the pressure off and regain flow. To get the full potential I've been told anything over 50 meter you should think about stepping up to half inch
Also it's the same reason why the venturi's don't work proper on a 50m plus length of hose, although the pressure is low it still has to create some kind of decent pressure to push a large amount of water through such a small diameter, also the longer the length of hose the more water/weight has to be forced through, this resistance is called back pressure.
Imagine blowing water with your mouth through a small length of hose pipe... easy, now try to blow water with your mouth through a 50 metre length of hose... probable impossible, and if your mouth had an unloader it would be unloading as the pressure in your mouth would be high enough to engage it, yet no water would be coming out the other end of the hose...
Hope all that makes sense? :-\
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Strange how come it works ok for jaespray ???
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Going off his post I think he uses 1/2 inch hose for his 1st 25 metres and only has 25 meters of 1/4 after that, I've been told about this back pressure when going 50 metres + on hoses. Been told i'll get away with 3/8 @ 50 metre.
Also I have a 30 metre on the reel of 3/8 which works the venturi fine but when I use the telescopic lance and try to use the venture it doesn't engage it because of the pressure trying to force it through the 1/4 inch hose in the lance... some telescopic lances are now available with 5/16 hoses in them for this reason and higher flow rates http://www.ultimatewasher.com/pressure-washer-telescoping-wands.htm
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"it's the same reason why the venturi's don't work proper on a 50m plus length of hose"
Ahha! been having a problem with my venturi, taken it back to pressure washing repair guys and every time it works for them, thought I was going doolally, they test on the shorter hose thats permanent on the machine (9mtrs) when on site I add at least 40mtrs (2 x 20) OK now I know.
How do I get chems thro at longer lengths? any ideas greatfully received.
Cliff
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"it's the same reason why the venturi's don't work proper on a 50m plus length of hose"
Ahha! been having a problem with my venturi, taken it back to pressure washing repair guys and every time it works for them, thought I was going doolally, they test on the shorter hose thats permanent on the machine (9mtrs) when on site I add at least 40mtrs (2 x 20) OK now I know.
How do I get chems thro at longer lengths? any ideas greatfully received.
Cliff
Cliff had the exact same problem ended up buying three from local stockist :D eventually realised what the problem was, works fine upto 30m. Does depend which size you have cant remember how the 'numbering' works :-\ I was going to source larger chem injector adjust to suit machine flow rate required dilution level.. as a fix for now if we need alonger 'run' we simply move m/c from van to stand alone tank for applying chem
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I used to have 50m of 1/2" & 50m of 3/8". The 3/8 sprung a leak and the 1/2 was through to the wire and ripping my hands to shreds. Ive still got a good section of the 1/2 and am going to try and put that on the reel first then add the 1/4" after it like jaespray.
if im honest i actually thought the old 3/8 i was using was 1/4 (because it looked so small compared to the 1/2) thats why i bought 14" hose (idiot) so ill see what happens at the job this morn when i put the 1/2 back on. hopefully itll sort it otherwise im just going to buy some new hose.
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I use 3/8 single wire 250 bar. Never had any problems .Ialso have 1/4 twin wire 400 bar and that seems heavy/stiff be comparison.
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"it's the same reason why the venturi's don't work proper on a 50m plus length of hose"
Ahha! been having a problem with my venturi, taken it back to pressure washing repair guys and every time it works for them, thought I was going doolally, they test on the shorter hose thats permanent on the machine (9mtrs) when on site I add at least 40mtrs (2 x 20) OK now I know.
How do I get chems thro at longer lengths? any ideas greatfully received.
Cliff
Cliff had the exact same problem ended up buying three from local stockist :D eventually realised what the problem was, works fine upto 30m. Does depend which size you have cant remember how the 'numbering' works :-\ I was going to source larger chem injector adjust to suit machine flow rate required dilution level.. as a fix for now if we need alonger 'run' we simply move m/c from van to stand alone tank for applying chem
I use a foam bottle that I have modified, throw away the bottle part, take off the 1/4 hose that goes into the bottle, then add a nice long length ( I use around 2 metres) of 1/4 inch pvc braided hose with a suction filter on the end. Now when I need chemicals I just snap the foam head on, drop the filter in a bucket of TFR and spray away ;D
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I used to have 50m of 1/2" & 50m of 3/8". The 3/8 sprung a leak and the 1/2 was through to the wire and ripping my hands to shreds. Ive still got a good section of the 1/2 and am going to try and put that on the reel first then add the 1/4" after it like jaespray.
if im honest i actually thought the old 3/8 i was using was 1/4 (because it looked so small compared to the 1/2) thats why i bought 14" hose (idiot) so ill see what happens at the job this morn when i put the 1/2 back on. hopefully itll sort it otherwise im just going to buy some new hose.
It will probably be the same if you use the full 60m of 1/4 after it matt.
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"it's the same reason why the venturi's don't work proper on a 50m plus length of hose"
Ahha! been having a problem with my venturi, taken it back to pressure washing repair guys and every time it works for them, thought I was going doolally, they test on the shorter hose thats permanent on the machine (9mtrs) when on site I add at least 40mtrs (2 x 20) OK now I know.
How do I get chems thro at longer lengths? any ideas greatfully received.
Cliff
your engineer should have picked up on this mate and asked you what length of hose you using
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i only use hose in 25mt lenght"s quite often need 7or 8 joined with my 1/4 inch as final and been 25mtrs above my machine never noticed flow or pressure drop good old zeta 200bar 30ltrs a min machine
regards john
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Well i bought 60m of 3/8". Using 30m of it now with 40m of 1/2" and everything is running sweet. gonna keep the other 30m of 3/8" in the van as extra but i dont see it being a problem.
cheers for all the replies guys.