Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: oliver collins on June 13, 2013, 06:48:15 am
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Hi I was after a review of a product and thought it would be a good idea if there was a chemical review section on clean it up,where popular and often used products, ie presprays rinses spot and stain removers are graded as too their effectiveness and how eccomical they are too use.
Just a idea !
Oliver Collins rise n shine cleaning
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It would be great if it was impartial and didn't turn into a slagging match which would never happen
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I was thinking of a star award for each product ie for effectiveness and value for money,I know what you mean I don't understand why some cant allow others to have a different option in cleaning chemical choice
Oliver Collins
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It would be great if it was impartial and didn't turn into a slagging match which would never happen
Completly agree,
however i will put my product forward for rating .
Water 5 * !!!
geoff
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Problem is some people swear by a product and others can't get it to work. Thats why we have over 200 products instead of 3.
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Chemspec, chemspec, chemspec
you just cant get better
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People don't give chemicals a big enough test before swearing they are the greatest product under the sun.
......"I used ultrapax on a disgusting carpet, it came up Like new..... Ultrapax is a fantastic chemical"......
After using it once they declare it as 'fantastic' ::)roll ::)roll
how many times have read a glowing review for the latest 'it' chemical after some one has used it on just one job.
Use it for a year and be on your 5th tub......then tell us how great it is
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People don't give chemicals a big enough test before swearing they are the greatest product under the sun.
......"I used ultrapax on a disgusting carpet, it came up Like new..... Ultrapax is a fantastic chemical"......
After using it once they declare it as 'fantastic' ::)roll ::)roll
how many times have read a glowing review for the latest 'it' chemical after some one has used it on just one job.
Use it for a year and be on your 5th tub......then tell us how great it is
So are you saying whats in the 5th tub is watered down or bulked out or just that you need an extended period to test it on all manner of situations? I must admit this has crossed my mind with another 'batch' but put it down to my highly cynical nature. :D
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Don't take this the wrong way and it is not aimed at anyone in particular! I also think sometimes the end user either doesn't understand the product or doesn't follow the instructions. Most (not all) manufacturers of products extensively test them before bringing them to market! There is little point bringing a new product out if it doesn't work.
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
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Have to agree with Mike, as I don’t believe all suppliers are consistent with the products!! One batch can perform excellent where as the next batch can be complete and utter crap….
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Have to agree with Mike, as I don’t believe all suppliers are consistent with the products!! One batch can perform excellent where as the next batch can be complete and utter crap….
Nick
Well I have no experience of that. I can only speak for the products we retail and all our manufacturers are consistent with the production of their chemical products. I do have experience of a certain manufacturer who decided they could get their buckets manufactured in China for less money! By the time we had the 6th one back with the back snapped I gave them an ultimatum "Sort it or we buy no more" and they moved production back to the UK!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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My point about the 5th tub was to make sure that you have used the product on all types of carpets and soil conditions before making a decision on its effectiveness, not that that the manufacture might not be consistent in there mixing, although I did see a YouTube vid of a company mixing their detergent in a cement mixer in their unit :o :o
Who actually make the product that the small independent sell? I would think Prochem & Chemspec. Have consistent manufacturer but I bet it is quite easy to get a chemical company to knock up a few ingredients then call it xoerpoope 309..... the latest innovation in cleaning technology.
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My point about the 5th tub was to make sure that you have used the product on all types of carpets and soil conditions before making a decision on its effectiveness, not that that the manufacture might not be consistent in there mixing, although I did see a YouTube vid of a company mixing their detergent in a cement mixer in their unit :o :o
Who actually make the product that the small independent sell? I would think Prochem & Chemspec. Have consistent manufacturer but I bet it is quite easy to get a chemical company to knock up a few ingredients then call it xoerpoope 309..... the latest innovation in cleaning technology.
Mike
I would agree with your last point but "What would be the point" The most expensive part of a new product is the R&D and then getting it to market. I know because I have done it twice! So what is the point of making a crap chemical, getting artwork for labels, sourcing bottles, getting it bottled and labelled and then finally advertising it if it is at worst rubbish or at best no better than 20 other products already on the market???
I do know of a company who produce chemicals with little or no consistency but I wouldn't touch them or their products with a bargepole but there are plenty that do because they are cheap!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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But if you are copying an existing chemical then the R&D is already done, you just take a sample to your manufacture and say "copy this"
Or you find the master supplier of a specific type of chemical and buy it direct but put your name on the container.
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But if you are copying an existing chemical then the R&D is already done, you just take a sample to your manufacture and say "copy this"
Or you find the master supplier of a specific type of chemical and buy it direct but put your name on the container.
Mike
I may be teaching you "To Suck Eggs" so forgive me if i am but even if you do that you still have artwork and labels to sort as well as other considerations as MSDS sheets etc and after that you have to get it to market and sell it! It is not as easy as you are making out unless you have done it and I went the long way round I don't know!!!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Lets looks at a senario,
I.m a carpet cleaning supplier with a existing customer base and up & running online sales website, my marketing is already in place. I decide I want to sell a 'new' product called ultra-oxycleen (basically an oxygen boosting additive)
I contact mistral in Ireland and buy 100kilos of this....
http://mistralie.co.uk/collections/home-and-janitorial/products/oxygen-bleach-powder
I also ask them to emial me a PDF of the MSDS
I already have contacts to acquire containers as I already do own brand products which I bottle myself and I sell own label spotters to my existing customers so have labelling ability.
Now I am selling a my own oxygen boosting chemical,
Does this senario seem plausible ? If it does'nt why are most of the suppliers I use doing it?
To be clear I'm not talking about me creating my own chemical range but a company that already has the systems in place to launch a 'new' product
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Lets looks at a senario,
I.m a carpet cleaning supplier with a existing customer base and up & running online sales website, my marketing is already in place. I decide I want to sell a 'new' product called ultra-oxycleen (basically an oxygen boosting additive)
I contact mistral in Ireland and buy 100kilos of this....
http://mistralie.co.uk/collections/home-and-janitorial/products/oxygen-bleach-powder
I also ask them to emial me a PDF of the MSDS
I already have contacts to acquire containers as I already do own brand products which I bottle myself and I sell own label spotters to my existing customers so have labelling ability.
Now I am selling a my own oxygen boosting chemical,
Does this senario seem plausible ? If it does'nt why are most of the suppliers I use doing it?
To be clear I'm not talking about me creating my own chemical range but a company that already has the systems in place to launch a 'new' product
Well it is clearly a lot different then in the Carpet industry. No one in the Hard Floor Industry would send you their product or Formula. However, that said, you still have to produce your own MSDS sheets and after all that what makes your product any better? Then you have to sell loads tro make sense out of it. Finally if it is this easy why havn't you stopped carpet cleaning and done it??
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Carpet cleaning suppliers are doing what I'm suggesting,( you just need to look at the history of 'microsplitter' or coolidal based cleaners)and the reason I don't do it is the same reason I don't sell machines, it's not what I do I'm a carpet cleaner not a supplier. But look at this company....
http://www.dccleaningsolutions.com/own-label-products
These will supply my own brand chemical, label it and supply all documentation. If I had the means to sell it as most chemical suppliers have then it can be done.
just look at extracta... Ashbys.....restormate.... Solutions.....plus dozens of companies who sell on eBay, they supply thier own brand chemicals, they did'nt do the R&D They used a third party.
This is'nt criticism of companies who do own brand products it just like sainsburys or Asda
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Carpet cleaning suppliers are doing what I'm suggesting,( you just need to look at the history of 'microsplitter' or coolidal based cleaners)and the reason I don't do it is the same reason I don't sell machines, it's not what I do I'm a carpet cleaner not a supplier. But look at this company....
http://www.dccleaningsolutions.com/own-label-products
These will supply my own brand chemical, label it and supply all documentation. If I had the means to sell it as most chemical suppliers have then it can be done.
just look at extracta... Ashbys.....restormate.... Solutions.....plus dozens of companies who sell on eBay, they supply thier own brand chemicals, they did'nt do the R&D They used a third party.
This is'nt criticism of companies who do own brand products it just like sainsburys or Asda
Mike
I am reading what you are typing and I am not saying it can't be done but if you or anyone else does this then my question is? What differentiates you or them between the rest of the people who are purchasing the same brand but under different labels?
The initial post regarding Batch 5 also means there is more chance of a batch not being consistent as opposed to purchasing the best quality products from a reputable company who have done their own R&D, Only sell their products under their labels and take the rap if anything goes wrong!
Let's say "Miks Carpet Cleaners" goes down this road and an expensive carpet is ruined because something went wrong in the bottling, production process or whenever! Who is responsible? The Operator, Mik or the Supplier? I don't want to get into a jousting match with you but at the end of the day someone has to be responsible. This is why we only purchase, use, retail and supply products of very reputable companies because at the end of the day when the poo hits the fan someone has to be responsible!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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kev, we come across bleached patches every month from vanish and the likes and i would guess vanish has never been taken to court over it, its the customers fault for not reading the small print just as it would be the carpet cleaners fault for not doing a test area. i would guess that not one chemical supplier of carpet cleaning chemicals has ever been at fault for ruining a carpet, you just make sure you include the small print on your label.
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kev, we come across bleached patches every month from vanish and the likes and i would guess vanish has never been taken to court over it, its the customers fault for not reading the small print just as it would be the carpet cleaners fault for not doing a test area. i would guess that not one chemical supplier of carpet cleaning chemicals has ever been at fault for ruining a carpet, you just make sure you include the small print on your label.
Derek
Point taken! So if a carpet cleaner wrecked a carpet because he bought chemicals off "Flybynight products" he had been using for years and suddenly there is a crap batch. What your saying is that is still his fault and no blame rests with the Chemical Supplier! That I understand but what about the General Public? Let's say a carpet cvleaner leaves a faulty bottle with a punter! Then what? Is it still the carpet cleaners fault?
I only ask because a certain very famous producer of washing powder brought out some new powder about 10 years ish ago and it totally screwed several of my expensive Pullovers up in the washing machine because when they came out they all had brown marks on them what appeared to be similar to bleach marks everywhere on them the washing powder manufacturer tried to wriggle out of it but they paid serious compensation in the end and blamed it on a mixed batch in the production line.
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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seems to be 2 discussions going on here manufacturing your own label products and dodgy batches, i wasn't talking about dodgy batches, i was talking about liability for the manufacturer. as long as he puts his warning on the label then he is covered until he makes a dodgy batch then he is not. thats my take on it.
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seems to be 2 discussions going on here manufacturing your own label products and dodgy batches, i wasn't talking about dodgy batches, i was talking about liability for the manufacturer. as long as he puts his warning on the label then he is covered until he makes a dodgy batch then he is not. thats my take on it.
Derek
Yes I agree! There are two discussions! Mike Halliday mentioned that people should really thoroughly try a product first and then say how good it is, then someone else said about quality and batches! Then Mike brought up about any Tom, Dick or Harry relabelling so I suppose it is going a little off thread!
The only point I really wanted to make is if you buy a product off a reputable dealer than it should do what it say it will do on the tin! It should also be a consistent formula
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Ii worked for a large company making specialist cement products and got to a job in Scotland where the concrete would not set ! it was a foamed concrete for filling roof cavity's in coal mines. It was put down to the cold and all sorts of other environmental issues. After spending a week trying everything we eventually got a new delivery and everything was ok . I took a bag down to the lab and tested it and it was our fault ! faulty ingredients !!only then did the scientist admit that they had been messing with the mixture to try and save some money. It happens all the time Flora has been changed twice in the last 6 months. You got to keep a open mind,