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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ben wood on June 11, 2013, 06:33:25 pm

Title: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 11, 2013, 06:33:25 pm
I have been with this guy for about 3 years now, I used to pay £180. Well i dropped them of last week and picked them today. I got home a looked at his bill, any way this time its gone up too £380 plus vat, He didnt tell me of the price increase and didnt tell me he was now vat registered. To be honest he has done no more than the other years. I dont think its on realy, what would you do
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: *Hector* on June 11, 2013, 06:35:55 pm
Well you have to pay it.... and it is tax deductible..... so it isn't costing your really.

Look for another one who is not VAT registered for next year..
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 11, 2013, 06:36:43 pm
I've had to double my prices in the past.

Maybe you have been getting a good deal in the past and he has woke up to what is normal charging.

He will save you much more if he is any good.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 11, 2013, 06:43:04 pm
We agreed that price not the new price, he should have told me. there is no way i am paying that,
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: *Hector* on June 11, 2013, 06:50:24 pm
So if you know what your are going to do, why come on here and ask for advice ... just to shoot it down if it is not what you want to hear??


I'm oot
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: keyser soze on June 11, 2013, 07:09:58 pm
talk to him . explain to him that its not what you agreed
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: bobplum on June 11, 2013, 07:13:09 pm
I have been with this guy for about 3 years now, I used to pay £180. Well i dropped them of last week and picked them today. I got home a looked at his bill, any way this time its gone up too £380 plus vat, He didnt tell me of the price increase and didnt tell me he was now vat registered. To be honest he has done no more than the other years. I dont think its on realy, what would you do

do it yourself....use sage.com
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: paul13 on June 11, 2013, 07:16:32 pm
To be honest think that is a very fair price and the 180 I think was a bargain   ;D
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 11, 2013, 07:33:38 pm
I have been with this guy for about 3 years now, I used to pay £180. Well i dropped them of last week and picked them today. I got home a looked at his bill, any way this time its gone up too £380 plus vat, He didnt tell me of the price increase and didnt tell me he was now vat registered. To be honest he has done no more than the other years. I dont think its on realy, what would you do

So £456.inc vat?
That is a kicking. I would talk to him and try to get it reduced just as a token of goodwill and if he won't, then go somewhere else.
I pay £330 inc vat as a sole trader but with a Aworka most of it is done  for him.
Tony
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 11, 2013, 07:35:40 pm
Well he should have told me about the increase as i would of understand but he didnt so i think i should not pay it. and i use george so the same he didnt have to do much. I will talk to him in the morning but what do i do if he wont reduce it.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 11, 2013, 07:36:22 pm
Housewives up and down the country are having the same conversation about their window cleaners.

After all the threads about how much can be earned........
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 11, 2013, 07:43:11 pm
Well he should have told me about the increase as i would of understand but he didnt so i think i should not pay it. and i use george so the same he didnt have to do much. I will talk to him in the morning but what do i do if he wont reduce it.

Pay it then. ( ask for 3 or 4 instalments)
I would not like to  fall out with mine as I'm sure he would know some bad revenue men!

Sunshine, would you lift your prices to the same degree as this guys accountant? Only then would housewives be having that conversation.
Tony
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: luther1 on June 11, 2013, 07:50:44 pm
Well you have to pay it.... and it is tax deductible..... so it isn't costing your really.

Look for another one who is not VAT registered for next year..

How is nearly a tenner off your tax bill not costing you?
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: *Hector* on June 11, 2013, 07:55:07 pm
 ??? ???

what do you mean ??
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 11, 2013, 07:55:30 pm
Well you have to pay it.... and it is tax deductible..... so it isn't costing your really.

Look for another one who is not VAT registered for next year..

How is nearly a tenner off your tax bill not costing you?


Cos he's a rug muncher and Leeds fan  ;D (and it must be quiet in the chat section)
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 11, 2013, 07:57:01 pm
Its not the amount as i have the money too pay, its more the point he didnt tell me and i think he is taking the p. And sunshine you do talk a load of rubbish mate,grow up and play with your little yellow matt
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 11, 2013, 07:57:54 pm
Including VAT that 250% increase. That's out of order. I'd be on the phone questioning that. You have every right to.


If I put a £20 house up to £50 I'd lose it. We all would.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: PoleKing on June 11, 2013, 07:58:21 pm
i've paid £400odd for the last 3 years.
Sometimes the value of something cannot be measured in money.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: PoleKing on June 11, 2013, 07:58:45 pm
by all means have a word though
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 11, 2013, 08:00:23 pm
To save a tenner off he's tax he has had to earn more and pay it to the accountant, as this bill is bigger but tax deductible it will save him about a tenner. ( I think)
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: luther1 on June 11, 2013, 08:00:37 pm
??? ???

what do you mean ??

Not a tenner sorry,but still not £456.
If his accountants bill comes to £456 and he's self employed he pays 20% tax. So £91.20 comes off his tax bill
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: luther1 on June 11, 2013, 08:01:28 pm
Well you have to pay it.... and it is tax deductible..... so it isn't costing your really.

Look for another one who is not VAT registered for next year..

How is nearly a tenner off your tax bill not costing you?


Cos he's a rug muncher and Leeds fan  ;D (and it must be quiet in the chat section)

You've got me confused with someone else pal
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: 8weekly on June 11, 2013, 08:03:09 pm
Why are so many windies on here mindless shep when it comes to accountants. I can't help that some feel important becaus they have one and wave their invoices like willies.

£380 for filling in a tax return is expensive, but that isn't the point. The point is that he put up his price without telling the OP.

Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: *Hector* on June 11, 2013, 08:08:38 pm
he meant me Luther1  ;D ;D

yes chat is slow tonight  :P
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: luther1 on June 11, 2013, 08:10:41 pm
he meant me Luther1  ;D ;D

yes chat is slow tonight  :P

I guess the big rotating Leeds badge was a giveaway!
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: keyser soze on June 11, 2013, 08:12:26 pm
ask him why he has increased it without telling you. and if you knew that he would be doing that you wouldn't have used him.. plenty of number crunchers out there
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 11, 2013, 08:13:12 pm
he meant me Luther1  ;D ;D

yes chat is slow tonight  :P

Where's Tosh, is he not playing?
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 11, 2013, 09:14:23 pm
Well he should have told me about the increase as i would of understand but he didnt so i think i should not pay it. and i use george so the same he didnt have to do much. I will talk to him in the morning but what do i do if he wont reduce it.

Pay it then. ( ask for 3 or 4 instalments)
I would not like to  fall out with mine as I'm sure he would know some bad revenue men!

Sunshine, would you lift your prices to the same degree as this guys accountant? Only then would housewives be having that conversation.
Tony

I have more than doubled my price in the past. I have always warned the customers beforehand though.

Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 11, 2013, 09:15:50 pm
Its not the amount as i have the money too pay, its more the point he didnt tell me and i think he is taking the p. And sunshine you do talk a load of rubbish mate,grow up and play with your little yellow matt

The perfect post to demonstrate which of us is the grown up...!
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: JamesAJF on June 11, 2013, 11:19:39 pm
mine done the same but put mine up from 200 to 500 with out telling me i told him to do one and got my self a new accounted that now chargers me 180  ;Dif he has not sent u a letter to inform u of rise in price then do not pay it.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ian101 on June 11, 2013, 11:51:23 pm
Thats not as bad as me for my first year went to a local accountant i knew through a charity im part of ..... didnt get price as i trusted him ... was expecting 400 - 500 quid .... bill was 1250 from memory .... do it all myself now with george and sage for a fiver a month easy peasy .... get advice off other business forums and the taxman himself .. my taxyear runs april to april so do tax return online when off during christmas and new year.

Were a simple business so income less expense is profit LESS your tax allowances and depreciation etc .... u will be amazed what u can deduct before calculating your tax bill all perfectly legitimate.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: G Griffin on June 12, 2013, 12:02:11 am
Dump and replace with two accountants.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Mike #1 on June 12, 2013, 06:45:24 am
He should defo have told you , But what some are missing on here is a Accounting Technician will charge £180 for instance .

A fully qualified Chartered Accountant will charge about £350.

Apart from the training and extra bit of knowledge an  accounting technician takes they aint much better than one of us doing our own accounts . It is almost basic book keeping really .

To be a chartered accountant takes years of training and studying and ongoing training . Mike
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: DaveG on June 12, 2013, 01:47:28 pm
Dump and replace with two accountants.

 ;D

Ben, I can recommend my accountant if you want his number mate
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 12, 2013, 02:30:57 pm
I Contacted mine today, I said I think its a p take not telling me and offered to pay a reduced amount which was still higher than what I thought I was going to get charged, he said no full payment only to which I told him no chance, so I will wait too see what happens. Dave thanks for the offer but I am going to use my Dads accountant from now on, Who has agreed to do the for £220.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 12, 2013, 02:34:43 pm
Why not write to him asking how he justifies a 250% price increase.

Then write him to asking how he justifies a 250% price increase without an advisory letter.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: keyser soze on June 12, 2013, 06:30:23 pm
Why not write to him asking how he justifies a 250% price increase.

Then write him to asking how he justifies a 250% price increase without an advisory letter.



good advice
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: p1w1 on June 12, 2013, 06:32:55 pm
why should he have to justify his price increase its up to him what he wants to charge...not telling him is a different matter tho
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 13, 2013, 04:13:50 pm
I Contacted mine today, I said I think its a p take not telling me and offered to pay a reduced amount which was still higher than what I thought I was going to get charged, he said no full payment only to which I told him no chance, so I will wait too see what happens. Dave thanks for the offer but I am going to use my Dads accountant from now on, Who has agreed to do the for £220.

Just make sure that he has done all that you need him to do, i.e. actually file your accounts either online or paper form. Also be sure to get all of your paperwork back from him before you start telling him that you won't pay him.
Plus make sure you have a copy of everything you may have sent him so that if there is an investigation you have backup to prove your case.

I was listening to 'Money Box' on Radio 4 the other day and they were discussing 'Powers of Attorney' and solicitors form filling for it.
They heavily reminded the listener that the solicitor is being paid not for filling in a form which anyone can do but rather for the advice they give.

The same can be said for accountants. 
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Pure Shine on June 13, 2013, 05:26:45 pm
I have to say many years back i stopped using an accountant and did my own it soon became apparent the more i turned over the more he charged me and i did all the adding up he just put the figures in the right boxes so there was no more of an increas of work on his part just my amounts had changed lesson learnt always agree a price
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 13, 2013, 06:50:07 pm
I think many miss the point. A good accountant will save you 5x what you pay. Yes you can fill in the boxes but do you know the best way to save paying tax. No doubt many pay more tax because they either have a sloppy accountant or do it themselves.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: 8weekly on June 13, 2013, 10:29:12 pm
I think many miss the point. A good accountant will save you 5x what you pay. Yes you can fill in the boxes but do you know the best way to save paying tax. No doubt many pay more tax because they either have a sloppy accountant or do it themselves.
Rubbish. 380x5 = 1900. To save you that he has to identify around £8,000 costs you can deduct from your turnover.  ::)roll

Most accountants would struggle to save you what they cost. That's not to say people shouldn't use them, but don't believe the hype.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 13, 2013, 10:37:21 pm
To save £380 an accountant will have to identify about £1250 in costs/charges you might otherwise pay tax on. Where do you get the £8000 figure from?

But it's not just the lower tax bill that helps with their charge its the time they save you which frees you up to be able to earn or have as free time.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: 8weekly on June 13, 2013, 10:40:49 pm
To save £380 an accountant will have to identify about £1250 in costs/charges you might otherwise pay tax on. Where do you get the £8000 figure from?

But it's not just the lower tax bill that helps with their charge its the time they save you which frees you up to be able to earn or have as free time.
Sunshine said an accountant will save you 5 x what they cost. 5x380 is 1900 tax saved. So that represents around £8000.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: 8weekly on June 13, 2013, 10:43:29 pm
To save £380 an accountant will have to identify about £1250 in costs/charges you might otherwise pay tax on. Where do you get the £8000 figure from?

But it's not just the lower tax bill that helps with their charge its the time they save you which frees you up to be able to earn or have as free time.

To add to that. To fill in a tax return takes me around 1/2 hour. It takes much longer to compile the information to complete the tax return, but even if you have an accountant, you still need to compile the data.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Crystal-clear on June 13, 2013, 10:48:20 pm
how can an accountant save you 5x what you pay them , i rang around one day and all i was pretty much being told was keep doing it yourself all we will do is fill in the figures and charge you,i said what about the amazing things you know ,,, worth every penny,, tricks of the trade save us more money??
"No we just ask you to subit your earnings and expensis for the year and that will be £400+vat"

only worth it if it takes your time from your job that you could be otherwise be earning , so i think dealing with vat,pay roll etc etc.then its worth it if im wrong and these amazing accountants exsist that can actually save you forget 5x even double and legally then pls let us know!
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 13, 2013, 11:25:46 pm
Maybe I have a great accountant, last year We paid total of just about 2.6% of our turnover in tax.
I had worked it out to be about 15%.

There were things he did that I wouldn't have thought of.

Keep filling it in yourself and I'll keep my accountant.

As for the 5x saving, I meant that if your accountant charges £350 he should be able to save you £1400 off your tax bill.

If you turn over £35k with expences of £5k you pay tax on £30k.
At 20% thats £6k. If he cant reduce that by £1400 he's not very good at all.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Moderator David@stives on June 14, 2013, 07:51:09 am
my accountant saved me a fortune over the last accountant who had missed a golden nugget

all accountants are not the same
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: keyser soze on June 14, 2013, 04:17:43 pm
hi mr woods did you speak to the offending accountant and did he reduce his bill to you , regards andy
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 14, 2013, 04:36:26 pm
no he wont reduce the bill so i said i wont pay him. will wait to see what happens
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Cliff perkins on June 14, 2013, 04:56:21 pm
mine was £450
and to be honest he was close to useless this year
regards cliff
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: tlwcs on June 14, 2013, 04:58:00 pm
no he wont reduce the bill so i said i wont pay him. will wait to see what happens

Did you ask if he will spread the cost to help you out a little?
I would also make sure you get some investigation insurance from the federation of small business and your books are bullet proof (I'm sure they are) as he could possibly stir the pooh with the revenue men, an added grief you don't need.
Tony
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 14, 2013, 06:43:07 pm
Its not that i cant pay it, i have a nice saving account its because he hiked the price without telling me and i feel he is taking the mick. and i declare every thing so i have no worries of a investigation.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 14, 2013, 07:35:19 pm
Just asking - but did he do more hours work this year?
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: SunShineCleaning on June 14, 2013, 07:38:25 pm
Its not that i cant pay it, i have a nice saving account its because he hiked the price without telling me and i feel he is taking the mick. and i declare every thing so i have no worries of a investigation.

Everyone is upset for you that he didn't tell you of the price hike, however telling him you won't pay is not a smart move. If an investigation is done they will look into evey aspect of your life including, as a friend found out, having to explain about the contents of his wardrobe. They are linked to Customs and don't need any permission to be inside your house doing an inventory of your possessions.
Your ex accountant can, even though it's unlikely, "spoil the pot" for you.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: 8weekly on June 14, 2013, 07:43:00 pm
Why would the accountant tell IR anything untoward is happening? It would incriminate himself surely. Write to him and ask him to put in writing why the bill has doubled. When you get a reply, give it som e more thought. It might be that he has had to do more work this year?
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: AuRavelling79 on June 14, 2013, 07:44:27 pm
Why would the accountant tell IR anything untoward is happening? It would incriminate himself surely. Write to him and ask him to put in writing why the bill has doubled. When you get a reply, give it som e more thought. It might be that he has had to do more work this year?

Sensible post.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Frankybadboy on June 14, 2013, 08:01:46 pm
£150 a year for me and she does a great job ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: keyser soze on June 14, 2013, 08:19:00 pm
tell him you will argue it out in arbitration . he would have to explain to a arbitrator why the massive increase. if he knows you  prepared to do that hell drop it.. hopefully .i wouldnt worry about hmrc .. all there inspectors are at google hq
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Ben wood on June 14, 2013, 09:19:48 pm
I have no worries about my accounts at all. I have declared every thing since day one so i can sleep well
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: deeege on June 14, 2013, 10:16:16 pm
my accountant saved me a fortune over the last accountant who had missed a golden nugget

all accountants are not the same

Same with me. Literally a golden nugget that my last accountant missed has saved me over £4k in 1 tax year.

It helps to pay his £1200 bill.
Title: Re: accountant has stung me
Post by: Crystal-clear on June 14, 2013, 11:39:40 pm
Good to hear that you guys are making a good saving Looks like I should make more inquiry's